Anthony Ramos and the Curse of the Wife Guy

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S1: When everybody was lusting after you went into the house, came out, I was like, This man looks like the damn amphibian.

S2: Hi, I’m Rachel

S3: Hampton and I’m Madison Malone Kircher, you’re listening to. I say, Why am I in

S2: case you missed it?

S3: Slate’s podcast about internet culture.

S2: Welcome back, Madison.

S3: Thank you so much. I’m back. I’m in New York. I put up my Christmas tree, which is to say I’m as happy as I am all year.

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S2: I mean, it is the most wonderful time of the year. And unlike Madison, I’m not actually talking about Christmas. I’m talking about Spotify Wrapped season. I unironically love this shit. It’s so fun. But this year’s is even better because so many of you all tagged us on Twitter and Instagram saying that we were y’all’s most listened to podcast, and I was just the human embodiment of the pleading eye emoji where I was just like, Oh,

S3: Spotify, Wrapped is. If you’re not familiar, at the end of every year, Spotify neatly packages all the data it’s harvested about you. Your most listened to tracks your favorite artists. What those things say about you this year, they gave an oral reading and they handed over to users in nicely shareable, pretty little images that we all then tweet and post on Instagram. And it’s a giant ad Spotify. I tip my hat.

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S2: Honestly, they made surveillance culture cute, and for that, we must respect them.

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S3: I don’t really love or hate Spotify Wrapped, I’m kind of neutral about it, but some of you really need to know that hating on Spotify Wrapped is not a personality,

S2: it’s not a personality. I don’t understand why people hate seeing other people happy. I love. I mean, I love personality types. So this is just the best version and personality test. And it’s like hating astrology or Myers-Briggs. Like what people live.

S3: Plus, most people are just telling on themselves, it’s always a little embarrassing. And to that end, we’d like to shout out the people who expose themselves as our biggest Dysnomia. Why am I guys? So shout out to Sarah and Jennifer on Instagram and Charlotte Abbey Jasmine, Bethany, Kevin Courtney, Leila Mirka and Christian on Twitter. We love you guys.

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S2: It’s like the reindeer names Donner and Dasher

S3: Prancer, Bethany, Kevin, Courtney.

S2: Mm hmm. Yes, I was like, I don’t know him either, so I was really hoping you’ll pick back up because this feels like your season. But anyway, that’s enough earnest talk time to get back to doing what I do best, which is roasting the absolute fuck out of people.

S3: We will be unwrapping our own Spotify topless at the end of the show. So yes, what Rachel is saying is true. The roast is coming, but first there’s a messy, messy mess coming out of TikTok that I simply cannot wait a moment longer to talk about.

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S2: In case you missed it. Anthony, Ramos and Jasmine safe as Jones have split up.

S3: Love is dead. It is. They were endgame. I’m going to play audience surrogate and say Anthony Ramos and Jasmine Safe’s Joan, host

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S2: for the uninformed Ramos Xavi’s Jones, are both actors who starred in the original Broadway cast of Hamilton. And if you don’t know what the senators, please e-mail me bastard.

S3: Or Oh, we’re not OK for legal reasons, I cannot perform any more of that.

S2: Yes, Lin-Manuel Miranda is waiting with a cease and desist. The two have been dating since 2015, which is when the Broadway play opened and their relationship was followed, shipped, faded by the stars and a lot of original Hamilton fans. Because what do nerds love more than when cast members of their favorite thing date? They got engaged in 2018 again look like Endgame Intel, a recent scandal involving a viral TikTok, a strip club and some amateur investigators who had

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S3: that on their bingo card.

S2: Honestly, pretty much anybody I’m going to be on is a strip club is the site of a lot of a lot of shit.

S3: If two of those things sound familiar to you. Thank you so much for listening to our show. And yes, you’d be correct. That is exactly how both the couch guy saga and the Gabby pedidO case got off the ground.

S2: Ramos is alleged, I’m going to say alleged because we still don’t know what happened, and we probably never will. But his alleged infidelity came as a surprise to most observers as a relationship with safest journalists, not least because she’s stunning and he’s a fool.

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S3: Allegedly an alleged fool.

S2: An alleged fool. Sorry, but mostly because Ramos hasn’t exactly been shy about publicly posting about his relationship with her. The two were never married. They they had a long engagement, but it’s not exactly a stretch to describe Ramos as a wife guy.

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S3: You don’t have to be married to be a wife guy and Anthony Ramos wife

S2: guy, which only further galvanized TikTok sleuths in their investigation. After the break, we’re going to take you out through the allegedly damning evidence that has allegedly led to Ramos and safe as Jones alleged split. That one’s actually real. They have actually split. And how TikTok’s commitment to unmasking Ramos as a alleged cheater isn’t a one off case, but part of a larger obsession on the app of exposing infidelity

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S3: will be back, allegedly after the break. All right, we’re back and ready to grab our pipes and our deerstalker caps and our magnifying glass. What deerstalker caps? It’s what Sherlock Holmes wears the little like plaid cap with the side flaps that tie up over his head. The name is deerstalker. Yeah, I think it’s like originally a hunting cap. I don’t actually know that. But Adam, logically, I mean, that thing

S2: here is

S3: but like,

S2: I mean, if it doesn’t refer to hunting, then I’m really scared about what else a deer stalking had. Just, you know,

S3: bandits got it out for him. Better watch out. Except we don’t actually need any of those props because TikTok’s already done all of the sleuthing for us.

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S2: So the Ramos saga began with an account. The handle is Dear Jane one, and they basically share just a shit ton of celeb line items about undisclosed name of UFC fighter or deejay or actor. The TikTok that’s about Ramos, just describes him as a Latino actor.

S3: I feel like we should also note that we are in a post annual economy. There are so many quote unquote blind items that are just roaming the internet on fact check and totally false. Kind of incredible that this panned out.

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S2: Yeah, I mean, every single time it’s like this celebrity was spotted with this person, I’m just like, I’m going to file that away for potential maybe fact, but mostly just to bring up at a party.

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S3: So the original Tik Tok by Dear Jane one is our favorite kind of Tik Tok here on. I see. Why am I? Because it’s only music with text on screen? So here’s one from Gabby Whiting with a quick summary of the drama. If you are a sorry Rachel, a Hamil fan, this is all going to seem extremely Reynolds pamphlet.

S4: Breaking news Anthony Ramos and Jasmine Cephas Jones have ended their engagement. They were together for six years. They met during Hamilton. But how this news broke is what’s interesting. Yesterday, a woman who works in a strip club uploaded a video on Tik Tok talking about when she was working, how he came in with a girl who was not Jasmine and was all over her. She included a little video of them at the end. You didn’t specify any names, but needless to say, the Ticktalk investigators figured it out. Clearly, some damage control needed to be done, and People magazine released this article this morning. The devil works hard, but messy. Tock works harder.

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S2: So that’s an example of the tick tock that circulated after the news broke. It’s a fairly serious one, but it’s tock, so people can’t help but make a shit ton of jokes. So here’s one from actually one of my favorite tech talkers whose screen name is Bill Condon on the weekends.

S1: Just like your damn daddy. Am I surprised? Not in the slightest. The apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree. You did say you wanted to be like your father. I’ll give you that, but we thought you were going to be some successful lawyer, a politician or writer that is not you being a damn adulterer.

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S3: She literally she’s not actually talking about Anthony Ramos, his father. Of course, she’s talking about Alexander Hamilton because Anthony Ramos played Alexander Hamilton son in the original Broadway cast.

S1: This man looks like a damn amphibian.

S2: He looks like. And along with these videos, Ramos his name also trended on Twitter, with most commentators questioning how he could dare to cheat on Miss Jasmine, which again bear.

S3: I think my favorite moment in this saga was when it went into her platform, so after the tick tock has gone viral. But before that know PR approved press announcement in people. There was a moment where people were watching both Jasmine Safest Jones and her father, actor Ron Cephas Jones, checking out their Instagram post, and they both appeared to have deleted their birthday posts to Anthony. I love messy,

S2: I love mess.

S3: Celebrity cheating on their partners does seem pretty much par for the course, but we do need to talk about why this particular instance has been so newsy.

S2: Enter stage left the wife guy

S3: wife guys are the type of man who are endlessly to the point of seeming disingenuous and obsessed with loving their wives very vocally loving their wives.

S2: Yeah, yeah. One of the classic examples of a wife guy. Perhaps the definer of the genre is the curvy wife guy aka Robbie Tripp, a.k.a. Madison’s favorite person in the world, who went viral for this long ass Instagram post, talking about how much he loves his not skinny wife.

S3: He’s conventionally attractive wife,

S2: and that’s what the internet picked up on. He was roundly made fun of at the time. We actually got into this recently in a slate piece, but I discussed both Anthony Ramos and Curvy Wife Guy with a few colleagues will include a link in the show notes. But Madison, you have some personal experience. Curvy, wise guy.

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S3: Yeah, I’ve been on the wife guy beat for years now and I. Several years ago now woke up to an email, the subject line of which was like opportunity of a lifetime. It was Robbie Tripp, curvy wife guy wanting to get coffee. We did. And I wrote a piece about it and he he did not like the piece I wrote about it.

S2: So what exactly do you think makes guys so annoying? I think the

S3: best wife guy to use here. As an example is, in fact, not Kirby wife Guy, but instead Cliff

S2: wife, guy, oh, oh, are you familiar? I am. But for our listeners who aren’t. I love that your brain is free from this. But be Maddison, can you explain? Cliff? Well, sure.

S3: Cliff wife, guy. I think this was like 20 19. A guy named Sean McBride. He’s at Sean Norris. He’s been like a long time internet influencer type across many platforms post this insanely dramatic video where his wife Jenny falls off a quote unquote cliff in Hawaii. And they’re like, It’s a near-death experience, and they filmed the whole thing. First of all, everyone’s fine so we can be having this conversation. But it was so insanely dramatic, so cloud grabby, really very gross and all rooted in this. Like, I just love my wife so much and live every day to the fullest and like, this really changes how you see the world. It was so gross.

S2: I mean, I think you get it an important part of the wife guy trope, which is that in shouting out their love for their wife, they also somehow managed to either nick their wife or display their most embarrassing moments.

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S3: Do you have a favorite wife, guy?

S2: Like a good one or a bad one? I mean, there are no good white guys, but you know, there are there are Good Wife guys. I think that’s important for this discussion. There are good white guys. The higher you rise in kind of transcending the genre of bad white guy, the further you have to fall, which is why we’re all looking at one Mr. Joshua Jackson and making sure he does not embarrass my girl. Jodie Turner-Smith. Because the moment he does, we ride at dawn. We are picking up our weapons. We are defending her honor. But he is an example of a good one because I think that he is his love for his wife is self-effacing. It’s not about him. It’s like, Look at this hot woman who happened to love me. Am I not so lucky?

S3: I don’t know. I I might have to disagree with you that there are Good Wife guys out there who are hot. Take a look. You married her. Of course you love her. You’re supposed to love her. My guy, like, that’s that’s the deal. The more they tell us about how much they love their wives, the more we get suspicious. Like wife waveguides doth protest too much.

S2: I think that’s accurate, which is why I think that the Good Wife guy manages to find the razor’s edge of not posting too much about his wife because it is true once you doth protest too much. We all get suspicious. And if there’s anything we’ve learned is that the internet love nothing more than suspicion.

S3: That’s true. There is nothing that the internet likes more than suspicion. And frankly, that’s what ties every single man we’ve talked about thus far on the show today together. Just think about what happened a few months ago with our good friend, couch guy, who, if you don’t recall, went viral against his wishes in a video of him sitting on a couch next to a few women when his girlfriend walks in to surprise him and all hell broke loose.

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S2: Tik Tok went crazy. I think this video and just slowing it down frame by frame and trying to review this man as a cheater, which didn’t work.

S3: It didn’t work. And you all need help. And you know where you can find that help. A nice episode of icy why am I entitled to Tic-Tacs? Couch Guy is not your friend.

S2: But since Couch Guy I happen to talk has not stopped overanalyzing relationships because they haven’t listened to our podcasts. I will say I also fall into this trap and by phone to this trap. I mean, TikTok has deduced that I want videos about this shit. I feel like every other video on my SYP lately is about somebody else’s relationship is either a happy couple which shaking, crying, throwing up, or it’s this video that has like four million views and it looks completely innocuous. And I’m sitting here trying to figure out why this has so many views and why is on my flip. And then I look at the comments and it’s just a bunch of people playing relationship forensic investigator like they are bones, but buffer relationships on TikTok. So this Tik Tok is set to California girls by Katy Perry, and it’s part of this trend where at the beginning of the video, one of the people in the relationship like they pull generally the guy into the screen and he looks like, I don’t want to be here. And then then he does this dance like, Yay, I’m here. You brought me here, and I’m happy to be in this relationship with you. But the caption reads, When your boyfriend won’t do the dance with you, but his roommate will. So you look at this video and you’re like, Oh, what a cute couple. And then you look at the caption and you’re like. Oh, and in the background is clearly a college dorm. Her boyfriend laying on the bunk bed, looking at his phone, not paying attention in any way, shape or form, and my comment is just like girl, his friends are waiting in the wings, like girl, get out. He does not like you. And I saw this and was just like, I’m sorry, didn’t we just do this?

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S3: I’m going to suspend my disbelief for a minute and pretend that those videos you just described to me are real. I’m on the record and will die on this hill that they are not. But if they are real, I just find myself again shouting into the void like, we don’t know these people. It’s the same thought I had watching that tick tock of Anthony Ramos in the strip club with the woman who was not his fiancee. We don’t know what, what their relationship was like, what the terms of it were like, what the conditions of it were like. This might have been totally normal.

S2: We don’t know how they’ve negotiated the relationship, and the fact that they split up afterwards could have nothing to do with this video.

S3: Of course, it also could. But it’s just again, we don’t know these people. They’re not our friends. We were not in the strip club.

S2: I’m just shocked that we’ve managed to make it this long into this episode without mentioning the parents. So clearly, I was

S3: really, really trying not to say it,

S2: but like, that’s all we’re describing, especially in regards to Anthony Ramos and Jasmine Safe Jones, because they’re actual celebrities. People on TikTok are attempting to accumulate celebrity, but Ramos and safe as Jones are actually legitimately stars, which means that people have even more of an investment in their relationship than they should.

S3: I mean, celebrity is but an invitation to poke and prod at relationships you’re not a part of.

S2: And in some ways, that’s what the white guy invites. The white guy by shoving his relationship in our face invites us to scrutinize it. It’s not my fault that it’s fun to be nosy online. We made entire jobs out of being voyeurs online.

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S3: That’s true. And frankly, the more details you can find in those voyeuristic online investigations, the more invested people on a platform like TikTok get in you because being on Tik Tok and having an inside scoop means eyeballs, clicks, views.

S2: But specifically on Tik Tok, that I think that other platforms have yet to really capitalize on. I mean, you mentioned dumb law, but Tik Tok really seems the man is to have like a breaking scoop that you can only get on that platform every so often, and it just invites people to get even more invested. Because if maybe you keep scrolling through your f y p or through the tag, you might find a stripper from a club randomly posting a video of your favorite celebrity allegedly cheating on his fiancee.

S3: You might. And while watching it, you might also keep in mind that there are real people on the other side of those investigations, and sometimes not all the time. But sometimes it might be better if we minded our damn business and also stop aggressively posting about how much we love our wives.

S2: I love you, podcast wife.

S3: I love you, podcast wife. And now that we’re wiped out, we’re going to take a quick break. And when we come back as promised, we will in fact be unwrapping our 2021 Spotify wraps. It will be embarrassing. Stay tuned.

S2: All right, we are back and I am ready to roast Madison, who I know for fucking sure has Broadway in her top five genres of the year. Am I wrong, Madison?

S3: Tell me I was, in fact, my number one genre.

S2: Oh, I was going to give you some credit and say, maybe Taylor Swift edged out and gave you, like, I don’t know, pop. What is what is her genre? Technically, whatever her genre is at the top?

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S3: Like we mentioned, Spotify Wrapped released earlier this week. Again, thank you to all the see my my guys who had us as their top podcast of the year over on Spotify. We’re so glad y’all are listening. Keep sending us your screenshots, podcast listeners. Embarrassing songs you like,

S2: even your bops and your bangers. I love new music. I feel like I’ve been in a musical rut lately. Speaking of, it’s time to unwrap Madison’s What what did you do this year? What the hell did you drink?

S3: Unsurprisingly, you know, top three artists Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, Brandi Carlile. Wow, I’m gay. I’m angsty, I’m sad.

S2: Madison Was there anyone on your Spotify Wrapped that surprised you?

S3: Okay, so you’ll note I did not tweet or post any pictures of mine because I was actually very embarrassed about this. But Tik Tok broke my Spotify Wrapped.

S2: What do you mean?

S3: OK, so there was a brief, let’s say, two week period during this year where I was trapped on like ironic Christian worship talk, OK? And so there was this trend sort of ex Christians mocking being at worship services and the song that came with it. Is this song called Free to Be Me? The chorus goes like, Got a couple of dents in my fender, got a couple, rips in my jeans cause I got it covered

S5: in my fender, got a cover. It’s in my. Jonathan, the reason

S3: it is so catchy, I probably listen to it 200 times in a

S2: week or so, was that your number one song of the year?

S3: It’s my number five song of the year.

S2: What’s number one? It all fades away in

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S1: a moment, but when

S5: all is said and done? It all

S1: fades away. But are you?

S2: What I don’t even know what is that is that a Broadway song is not a musical.

S3: It’s from a Broadway musical by Jason Robert Brown called Bridges of Madison County,

S2: not Madison County, Madison. Every single episode, I just think there’s no way you can get more on brand. And then you do. And I love that for you. You are yourself.

S3: I have one last detail to contribute, and that is not. In fact, the it all fades away from the Broadway cast recording, but instead a cover by Jennifer Nettles and Brandi Carlile.

S2: Oh my god. Wow.

S3: Like I said, I’m sad. I’m game angsty. I am who I am. Ticktock broke my Spotify on Wrapped. Tell me your number one track of the year.

S2: OK, I got to say my Spotify Wrapped just confirm that I have great taste in music. I was just like, You know what, Bob’s banger vibes. So my number one artist, honestly surprisingly, was Beyoncé in that I don’t think I ever actively. No, I don’t ever. But I don’t think that I often actively choose to listen to Beyonce. But I do think that she makes her way into a lot of my playlists. My number one song, though, was right words wrong time by Carly Rae Jepsen.

S5: You’ve always got the.

S2: I think her best song, although Warm Blood is really up there for me, like it’s just

S3: such a vibe. OK, so Spotify Wrapped this year had sort of a dumb but enjoyable thing where it gave us oral readings.

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S2: Oh my God, my notes

S3: on the music was Do what was yours?

S2: So much so mine was I love mine because it is again. Spotify take all my data. Mine was confident and angst.

S3: Mine said that I was wistful and focused. What? Moving on. Rachel, I’m begging. Please tell me there was something embarrassing about you on your Spotify Wrapped.

S2: I mean, I’m sorry, Madison. But my taste in music is like, I think the most embarrassing thing is that the number five song is still into you by pair, but that’s just a good song.

S5: I’m still. You.

S3: OK, great. Here’s where I reveal that my number three genre was Lilith. I’m just going to go walk into the sea now.

S2: Here’s your genre with Lilith. What does that even mean? I didn’t know the honor.

S3: That’s because you’re straight.

S2: Oh, like Lilith Fair, is that?

S3: Yeah. Now now

S2: we’re talking. OK. Mm-Hmm. Well, I know what to get you for Christmas. It’s tickets. A little fair.

S3: You’re many years too late. But, OK, that’s the show we will be back on your feet on Wednesday, so definitely subscribe. Our show is free and that’s the best way to make sure that you never miss an episode. Also, consider leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or telling your friends about us. Follow us on Twitter. We’re at I.S.. Why am I underscore pod, which is also where you can tag us when you tell us how many minutes you spent listening to AC, why am I this year? I think the the current front runner is something like six hundred minutes. You can also always email us where I see Why am I at Slate.com?

S2: I say, why am I, as produced by Daniel Schroeder, a supervising producer there, John? We’re edited by Force Lichtman and Alliger Frank and Alicia Montgomery is executive producer of Slate podcast See Online

S3: or at a Strip Club.

S2: I think this is the most I have oppressed Madison in our entire relationship together.

S3: It’s totally fair. It’s like me saying, I’m going to get you tickets to Warped Tour, Rachel.

S2: OK, that you know?