A Bottle of Matthew Rhys-ling

Listen to this episode

S1: Matthew braced himself against the wall and bent his knees. He took me into his. And shifted his weight until I was. My hands automatically went to his shoulders and I stared down into his face. I’ve got you. He said breathily. I’ve got you. And with that.

S2: I love this. I Love You is the most convoluted nonsense I’ve written in a while. No, I love it. It’s not. I like it.

S3: I love the way you say naughty.


S4: Oh.

S2: Wow, that was real stuff. I am so emotionally drained, I can’t I can’t, I can’t. Cosulich I mean, you said there was no I in that. Hi you said have walked.

S3: I was the flattest, most beautiful Southern thing I’ve had Hinako. Oh, I heard it. And I was like, I can’t bring it back. I can’t go.

S2: Well, you’ve already given me a tiny hint into your state of mind this week. But how are you, Nicole?

S5: I’m telling you, I’m holding on by duct tape and wish.

S3: Wow.

S2: You are such a poet holding on by duct tape and wishes. That’s the name of your next collection, I hope you know. Yes, I hear you.


S6: I fully I feel as though this year has been incredibly quick to go by, but also ponderously slow. And that inability to understand time has been the hallmark of the whole of twenty twenty because I’m just like, well, it only March like how many months ago or was it in fact ten years ago. I don’t know anymore.


S5: I don’t know that I was look at their pictures on my phone trying to purge and I came across a Sundance, which was January.

S2: That was this year. That was this year. Oh, and we interviewed Blair Underwood in February and did we yeah, I mean, it wasn’t that six week. That wasn’t the wait. That was like five hundred years ago. I think I was a child when we did that interview. What the hell? This time Blair Underwood was this year. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Do you remember the outside and live shows and audience interaction? Wow. Wow. Do you remember our real studio? Oh, my God. It was a whisper of a dream. At one point there was a studio, I feel, as it were at the beginning of I feel like we’re at the beginning of Avatar, The Last Airbender, like we’ve been in a bubble under the water for one hundred years. And now we have emerged the 12 year old boy who can er bend and it’s kind of like, all right, now go out there and thirst and it’s like, what’s that line from the wire. The ligament in me. No I don’t, I don’t understand anything anymore. But you turn up and luckily we have each other and we have our first bucket. So I’m very excited that at least we are able to bring pockets of joy and some sense of time shout out to every Thursday, a new episode that’s been like the whole muckle like setting my week on. OK, so it’s Thursday, all right? Yeah. Now I know what day it is because I can tell by the interaction on Twitter that a new episode is out. So it must be Thursday.


S6: We have a lovely episode planned this week, don’t we?

S5: Yes, we do. This is another subject that we’ve been thinking about for a very long time. And finally we were like, look, it’s now or never. We got to get it really is the motto of twenty.

S2: Twenty is now or never. And more often than not, it’s never fun. So let’s do it now.

S5: Oh my gosh. We are talking about Matthew Reeth.

S2: Yes. Pocket Rocket, my little Welsh dragon. She said offensively. I just I love my theories so much.

S5: I am late to him like I didn’t realize, you know, I just discovered him when I was watching the Americans and I watch the Americans during its first run. So I was there from the pilot. Oh, my God, that oh, we’ll get into that a little bit later, but.


S2: Oh, we will. Oh, we will. Wow. Yes.

S7: Matthew Reese, you know, we want to him on the show, but that didn’t work out. But it’s all good.

S2: So, I mean, it’s not all good, but, you know, I can’t cry about it because what good will that do me?

S7: But, yes, it would have been a dream to actually be talking about Matthew Rhys to Matthew Rhys, I think would have been in the same way that Jason Mizuki’s and, you know, Wilson Betha, the same way that they were kind of giving us a little time just to make it through. I think he would have been just as charming, if not more.


S6: I believe it. I fully believe it, because here’s the thing, Matthew Reese as well. Right. I don’t want to toot my own horn a little bit too loudly, Nicole, but I don’t know if you know this, but I’m British.


S5: Oh, is that what that accent is?

S2: That’s what it is. So my feeling is we would have joined together in our historic hatred for the English and come together in a bonding exercise that would have made for really special podcast material. But it’s neither here nor there. Matthew, regardless if you want to meet up so we can talk trash about the English, come on the show at some point, don’t worry. The door is always open, always open. Like, let’s see you on the road. Let’s do a live show. Yes.


S6: Nicole are very excited to get into my theories and I think everyone should get a glass of something warm or cold depending on where you are. And let’s get into it.

S8: So, Nicole, you said at the beginning that Matthew was a sort of new revelation following the Americans.

S2: So the Americans was on telly, what? Twenty, fourteen? Is that when it started?

S9: I think so. Something like that. Yeah.

S2: Yeah. So there was a period in your life where you had known Matthew Rhys and then the Americans brought him to your attention? Exactly, yes. What was it in the Americans that caught your eye beyond the obvious?

S5: He played this character named Phillip Jennings, who, you know, was a Russian spy because the show took place in the eighties during the Cold War and all that wonderful stuff and what like, OK, so I’m watching the first episode of The Americans, Everything’s Going Along and Phillip and his daughter. I have gone to the mall and a man is creeping up on page, he’s being really inappropriate. He has a teenage girl with him or someone who looks very young with him. And Philip sees this, obviously, and he tries to do what he can, you know, like whatever. But he’s also trying to maintain his cover as a, you know, just a regular all-American guy, like a suburban dad just taking his kid out to the mall on a weekend. Yes. But then he gets this look on his face when he sees this man. And you could tell that he wants to kill him.


S6: Yeah. And I was like, yes. Oh, yes. Listen, that look of barely banked passion. People don’t know that shit is a key. And the lock. Well, it’s in me.

S5: I’ll tell you what, it was murderous passion. It was you have offended my child. It was like all of this, which is just catnip to me, you know, it’s just I love it. And then spoilers, he does go visit this man a little later, OK?

S2: This disguise. Oh, yes. Nicole. Nicole, that’s. Oh, my God. I have. I mean, after it ended and he kind of walks away, my hands shakily reached for a cigarette. And I just like, inhaled shakily and exhaled just the shakily because I was done, I was done with cooked. This is TMI. But after that scene was over and he walked away eating a hot dog, I felt like I held my breath because I thought this was. Oh, I do not condone violence in real life, you know? Absolutely not. I’m practically a pacifist. I how the fuck ever. However, if you are going to.


S5: Protect your daughter, protect your cover, and also just protect the other woman, the other young lady that was with him.

S2: That’s the catnip for me, protecting the future people that he may target. Oh, my God. Just erect nipples all day. I’m sorry. My God, it was so hot. And I was just like, who is this man playing this character?

S5: Because the way his face fell into. Yes. I talk about acting a lot on this show because I really love that. But the way that his whole face could just fall and rise and change with his moods is I have his acting is incredible. And I am so upset that he did not get the professional accolades that he should have while the Americans was on air, because, you know, there are lots of shows that get a lot of shine and a lot of critical shine.


S6: So it’s a hit with the people. It’s a hit with the critics and off it goes. And it almost like instantly earns a place in like boxset glory, like it’s a kind of show that will. And then there are some other shows where the equation is not quite as kind of laid out as smoothly. So I think for people who love the Americans, the love was instant and it was constant through all the seasons, which is rare because even in some of my favorite shows on that season was a dud. Right. Just like, OK, look, I love you still. But it was it was a shout out to Parks and Rec season one set.


S2: I treasure the last even like we all have. We have our faves and we’ve made peace. The Americans is a rare thing in that it was a critical success from the get go. It maintained its steam and its speed all the way through. It landed emotional punches and not not not always. It wasn’t always perfect, I have to stress. But it was on average one of those shows that you start watching. You don’t get up till you’re done. Right. And the combination of Matthew Rhys, who, like you said, has this incredible ability to do face acting in a role that is literally about a double agent, like a man who is so deeply embedded as a double agent, as a sleeper cell in suburbia. And there were so many parts of it that require my nute acting. Mm hmm. And Matthew Rhys understands that. Here’s what a camera is here to do.

S10: OK, let’s talk about that. My nude acting in the Americans, because, OK, Phillip Jennings is married to Elizabeth Jennings, played by Russell.


S5: Phillip is in love with Elizabeth. Right? They’re married. He’s in love with Elizabeth. But Elizabeth, her feelings for him are complicated because she is more loyal to the motherland, the mother country like.

S2: Listen, I respect that because as a woman, she’s like, I’m here to do a job, buddy. Yeah. I’m not here to catch feelings. I was like, but I love you. Please focus on the job at hand.

S5: And I have somewhere I have to because they both have to. Let’s just say they both had to sacrifice their bodies in order to do their jobs for Russia. But obviously for Elizabeth, as a woman, she had to make more sacrifices.

S2: Let’s just say that I’m going to say that that’s all you need to say. I feel like many women or women identify people understand this. They just do.

S5: Yes. And so she was trying to process all of that as well as her feelings for him. And then Philip was also trying to process what if we became Americans for Real, like he was falling in love with that American dream, but he still had a mission. Right. So the show is layered. It’s complicated, but that Minuit acting that he would do to show how Philip was in love with Elizabeth. Oh, my God.

S2: And he could not express it any more than what he’d already done. He was that was him yelling it like he was trying to say, can’t you see it on my face? And Elizabeth, I think and this is again, when you get two actors at the height of their powers really coming together every so often, there’d be something that would cross Elizabeth’s face as she realized what a small gesture was meant to convey. And just as quickly she would tamp it down because she was here to do a job.


S7: Oh, my God, Keri Russell was so good in this show. I know this is an episode about Matthew Rhys, but let’s just give Catherine Russell her props right now because she was like, who?

S2: Felicity, whose words? I never heard of her. I don’t know her JJ whom she came out and said, you are going to get these acting fucking trips. And she every time the camera was on her again. And this is this is I know we’re talking about Mafia now.

S6: We’re talking about Carrie. But here’s the thing. The interplay is so important, I think, about how one actor causes another. Up the game. Yes, and vice versa, yes, and I think that when Matthew turned up on set because they’re partners now. Yes. Like like they are domestic partners now. But when they started this job, they were not and I’m not saying that they were, you know, unfaithful or whatever, whatever.

S2: Now that they are together, a part of me is kind of like that must have been part of the attraction to look at someone to kind of be like, right, you are killing it. I couldn’t not fancy you. I’m sorry. I’ve had to do a job and I’m doing it. But also I am slowly falling in love with how good competency it’s right there.

S5: There is this one scene where Philip has to pull a broken tooth out of Elizabeth’s mouth, OK.

S2: Oh, my God. Attention, Nicole. I’m already sweating.

S5: I have never seen such an erotic scene in my life and.

S2: They’re fully clothed, they have just been in a physical altercation, they have been in a fight, they call, even if you didn’t give all of this information, as you said at the beginning, he’s pulling a tooth out. But there is nothing sexy about the act of removing a fucking tooth.


S5: It’s in I. I think it’s in their home. I think they’re in their home. Are there someplace. And so here, like, there’s no dental equipment. This is just a fucking wrench.

S11: They stop. Stop.

S2: I’m sure enough for a different reason. Oh my God.

S5: But the look on her face and she’s like, I don’t know if I can do this, but I trust you. The look on his face, that’s like I don’t want to hurt you, but we need to take care of this. Yeah. And then when they go through the motions, when he’s trying to pull the tooth and she kind of flinches and he’s like, oh, I don’t want to do that. It’s just it is one of the most beautiful scenes I have ever seen. It’s on YouTube someplace. We can’t play it because there’s no dialogue. So it wouldn’t make sense. Yeah, but please go look for it. We’ll put it on our Tumblr because it is it’s incredible. Like the trust between them as actors that they’re characters.

S2: Yes. So well done. Oh, give me the multiple levels, Nicole. Like right now listeners you can’t see Nicole and I are leaning extra hard into the mic and into our cameras to show just how much emotion these two characters. And again, we can’t talk about how good he is in the Americans without bringing up Carrie. But as a standalone, Matthew Rhys gives me the vibe of a man who knows so much and doesn’t necessarily want to show you the breadth of all he knows because it might terrify you. I’m not in a condescending way, just kind of like I’m giving you all that you need, OK, but trust and believe that I’ve got a handle on everything. He’s the kind of guy who you look, you go. He knows every exit in this place and it’s all in the way he carries himself. Well, he is taught even when he’s loose, even when this motherfucker is relaxed, you just kind of like that body knows things like this. It is such I don’t know how he does it, but I look at him and I just think this man is aware with a capital A.. Oh, Jesus. Yes.


S5: OK, before we leave the Americans, I do want to play this clip because, yes, I think it does speak to that coiled passion that he has. And this same page, their daughter, I she’s still a teenager at this point, still living at home. She has come under the influence of a religious practitioner pastor. She’s trying to figure out her place in Christianity, all this kind of stuff as she has given away six hundred dollars that she has saved with the help of her parents. And as you could probably imagine, 600 hours or so, a lot of money right now for a teenager. I don’t care who you are, but it was in the eighties was a lot of money, OK? And so Elizabeth and Philip have found out that she has given away this money and Philip have a particularly strong reaction.

S11: Six hundred dollars. That was all you had. Who told you to do it? The pastor, his wife. No. One stop protecting them. I’m not protecting anybody. Why do you think I can’t make my own decisions? You know why? Because it’s a stupid decision. And you’re not stupid. Paige, you were saving that money to go to Europe. Well, it’s going to better use use. Do you know what they’re using that money for? They’re feeding refugees, building houses. You guys don’t help anyone. We help you.

S12: We help you and we help you save that money. Please do not roll your eyes at me. You can show me some respect. You started lying to us. I didn’t lie. You certainly don’t seem to know the difference, do you?

S13: Why do you feel why, but how do you do that so it doesn’t? You respect Jesus, but not as.


S5: Oh, feelings, wow. Yeah, so he was very upset about that to the point that even Elizabeth had to be like, OK, Philip, calm down. Right?

S2: There was still suburban parents out here. Let’s calm down. Right. Right. Let’s not bring our assassins’ selves to this situation. Yes, there is. I would literally watch the Americans on my skin with prickle with just like, oh, this I I’ve never wanted to climb in the middle of two people so much watching materials and carry on the Americans. And of course, listen, I’m sorry, I am straight as an arrow, so my interest doesn’t really lie with Kerry. But I want so much to just touch my theories when he’s acting and he’s being super fucking stoic and he’s just delivering the goods. And for me, that was the first time I’d ever seen him in that kind of role, because my experience of him was this show on ABC, which ran for quite a few seasons over the course of many years. It was called Brothers and Sisters. It’s not a great TV show, Nicole. I can’t stress that enough. Yeah, I did not watch it. Did I watch the show every Sunday, though? Yes, the fuck I did.

S8: Because it is full I mean full of all sorts of your favorite actors that you haven’t even thought about in a while. Sally Field leads the she leads the whole thing. Calista Flockhart to Ally McBeal is in there. Rachel Griffiths, a.k.a. Muriel’s Wedding. She’s in there, I believe I’m Campa went on to do revenge. She’s in it.

S6: Rob motherfucking Lo is in this show. It is like just a wall to wall, just like full of all sorts of your fave whites, all acting and doing their thing in a cozy Sunday night show, like, fine, I’ll watch it.


S2: And he plays this character, Kevin and I, I oh, man. He’s on the show. Matthew is playing this this gay man called Kevin. He’s married to his husband. And it’s just this lovely I mean, it’s such a sweet storyline with a bit of strife thrown in every now and then, but it never gets resolved over the course of a season, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Again, Matthew Rhys is able to, with his co-star, create a feeling where I’m kind of like, I want to live in the house, I want to be there, but like I could live a happy life with this couple. I think they told me where to be and what to do. I’d be OK. Just I am so enamored of him, whatever he’s playing. But I watch the show every single week. I watched it and I cried. I got emotional. And at the end of every episode I’d be like, Oh, this is not a good TV show. And then I would tune in the next week and I would watch it again because there were some surprisingly good performances in a surrounding structure that wasn’t quite as, you know, as amazing as the the talents therein.

S6: But that was four years. That was my exposure to Matthew Rhys. And I was so in love with him. And what I also love is that he does in both the Americans and in brothers and sisters, he’s playing in American. So he has an American accent. And the understanding I know for lots of people who don’t understand that he is Welsh when he speaks every so often, like at an awards show or he speaks some some Welsh or he uses his original native accent, you can see we’re going to go. Wait, what? I don’t think that’s right.


S14: Versatility because he has so much of it.

S5: So I you know, I fell in love with Matthew Rhys on the Americans, but not enough to go back to brothers and sisters. But I did end up watching Death Comes to Pemberley.

S2: Nicole, I’m going to sit on my hands so I don’t yell Carrie, OK? I love this fucking I love. Let me stop because.

S5: I don’t fuck with any of the Pride and Prejudice pride. What I don’t even know the title, OK?

S2: Every day you mortally offended when you say this shit like I read Austin every year and every time you shit on me from a great height and you say that’s cute or whatever, and you just you just don’t fuck with the things I love. Nicole, I don’t know how we’re so friends. I’m sorry. That’s just not OK. That’s not for me. That’s fine from you. It’s me and you and paranormal romance. I’m like, oh, that’s cute for you, but it’s not for me. I hate to say no more sustainable. So I watch this shit and again, I have no real frame of reference.

S5: I don’t know what anybody was talking about. I don’t know the inside jokes and the Easter egg, the callbacks, none of that shit. I don’t I still would not be able to tell you anything about this mini series except for this one scene where his character. He’s playing Darcy, right? Yes. Yes, he is. He is the Darcy, which I believe.

S2: And he is Fitzwilliam. Yes. Yes. A lot of people love Darcy.

S3: She said something like, wow, carry on, Nicole. Shit on my life. Why don’t you. Wow.


S5: But there is a scene. There’s a love scene, and it’s not very explicit, anything like that.

S8: It is still it’s still a cozy BBC drama right down.

S5: Right? It is. But it is, you know, shot in that very gauzy manner. Right.

S2: Where it’s just because you’re as you’re caught up in the candle light flame and, you know, all this kind of stuff, the only way to do it. Nicole Matthew Reese, now home is an incredible kisser. I bitch. What the fuck, lady? I that’s that was Carrie’s problem from the American.

S5: Hey, look, he just looks so, you know, the romance novel, they say he’ll be like, oh, he oh, he gobbled, he nibbled, he tasted. He kisses like he is trying to figure out all of your ingredients, like he is a food taster, you know, novels, poetry.

S3: To my heart.

S8: He’s trying to figure out all your ingredients.

S3: Wow. I am swat. My outfits are so spicy right now. Wow. Wow.

S2: I mean, like, he is really just it’s a slow Sabreen kind yet to savor.

S3: I feel like I feel like I mean, a fucking flavourful I’m I had just hyping ingredients just in the Rick Pitino was like more emphasis.

S2: But that’s how I feel. Your nail. Yes. Carry on. It’s just so sensual on screen that there is no way that he is not like that off screen. And that’s the only thing I could say to be as respectful as I could possibly be right now. Listen, there was that that was that that moment when he said, I’m going to come back since I just want to mention one thing. When you said about there’s no way it doesn’t reflect. There was a bit when he was receiving an award for his work and he gets up on stage, he’s talking. He’s doing his acceptance speech. And he looks and says something to an about Keri Russell and the smile she gives him, she is satisfied. She said, I do not lack I do not want for all of my needs are met and exceeded. And that at that point I kind of tweeted I’ve since the tweet because we’re respectful out here. But I was like, Keri Russell looks like she knows what is up. That’s it. Like she is. She gives this look. She’s what she looks like the cat. They’ve got not only the cream, but all the treats and just everything else. She looked like there’s nothing, you know, that they would kind of say, oh, you know, I don’t have any issues with blah, blah, blah, because I’m so confident. Keri Russell looks at you and says, Do you know that my partner is maturity’s bitch? Like, what do you think you can say to me? What do you think? And you know, the best part Maffia looks at Carrie the exact same way, the exact same way. And to go back to death comes to Pemberley.


S8: So as you know, I’m a fan and he is playing it his very Fitzwilliam Darcy, his partner, Elizabeth, his wife is now Elizabeth Darcy, no longer Bennett. And that’s played by Anna Maxwell Martin, who has, again, a really soulful I really love watching her work. She has this great face that kind of, again, transmits telegraphs. And again, a wonderful match for next to Matthew Rhys because they have this kind of quiet, hot, erotic energy, which is quite a feat because we’re talking super, super period like the Americans this period. But this is super period. Right. And there’s something about them that just hums beneath the surface. So that love scene is perfectly in place with the ideas that you may have had about Darcy and Elizabeth, which is essentially these two get it in and a lot.

S6: Right. And then you have that scene that kind of says you were right. They do. They do. It’s a very happy marriage. Right. And then, of course, there’s a conflict that comes in and threatens to kind of, you know, from an outside source.

S8: But it’s also kind of like if you if you’ve read the original book, you know that this is, again, a source of constant conflict, Elizabeth’s terrible family in the form of her sisters and her mother and even her dad, who is also a nightmare, which again and another episode for another day. But there is something about this idea of like he’s presenting himself as kind of like, listen, I married you knowing that your family was ridiculous and knowing that I myself was prone to, you know, the Pride and prejudice of the title, etc.. But there’s something, again, about just the bond that he forms with her. And in every scene in this particular show, which is based on a James novel, there is just this, again, locked down kind of emotionally, which, you know, to expect from Darcy anyway.


S6: But he brings something new and humming to it where kind of a here is a man who has come out despite himself and his own urges. He’s fallen in love. He loves his wife so much. But he also can’t he can’t unleash the way he wants to because he has all this pride and he has like a certain standing. So, again, it’s a different kind of tension, but watching it play across his face. It’s just I will never, ever, ever get enough of it. I just want to. He has and the best part of all of this is the humor, the dances in his eyes when he’s like what he calls it, up your left in no doubt that when the mood requires it, he is just this fun, funny guy who clearly appreciates comedy, knows good comedy and would make you laugh.

S2: I bet. I don’t know what’s hotter. I honestly don’t know. Is it so I mean, listen, you know, I love a stuntman’s I’m all the way I have all of his star roles. But when I see him chuckling or laughing or whatever, a part of me just kind of like injects it just like I don’t know who I’m whole again. My outfits have stayed spicy.

S6: So when it comes to Matthew, we have mostly been focusing on his kind of serious, dramatic roles, like he he’s not necessarily a ha ha, you don’t think of him and think, oh, Will Ferrell. Right? He’s not he’s not he’s not a comedy guy in that way. However, like I said before, I think that there is a gleam of very good humor in his eyes in a way that makes me think he’s in on several jokes.


S8: Thank you. And one of my favorite performances of his is far away from the role he’s most known for as Phillip Jennings on the Americans.

S6: It’s actually a guest role on, of all things, Archer Archer, the animated comedy about a group of spies.

S7: I love Archer so much. I shouldn’t.

S2: I shouldn’t. But I love it.

S7: Nicole, it is so ridiculous and raunchy and I love the parody of it, the send up of those old 60s spy shows and stuff.

S5: StaffWriters, I love Archer so fucking much.

S8: It’s like I know I shouldn’t like I know some of the jokes. I’m kind of like, oh, that was off color. I don’t do that. Like some of them are just like Jesus. So it’s it’s not it’s not necessarily the show that I bring forth, like, oh, if you want to know me, this is me. But I bloody love Archer. It’s very, very funny, very silly.

S6: So on this particular episode, this is back in the sixth season, Matthew plays a Welsh freedom fighter, Lloyd, and he is hilarious. Like he comes on in and he is just so funny. He has obviously, he says, toast in the most amazing way I’ve ever heard a person say toast. It’s great. Oh, he has these weird little quirks. And I just really there’s a particular moment where, you know, bearing in mind his famous role at this point is that he is a Russian pretending to be an American, but is in fact a Welshman. And on this, he is a Welshman and he puts on an American accent. And it’s very matter and it’s very ha ha. But also it’s actually just fucking funny. I think we have a little clip of that.


S12: We have reason to believe that in the area that one of them is wounded. So we’re canvassing all the farms. And when we saw the damaged vehicle, the flu in it, and I crashed, a bee, flew into a convertible. Look, our marriage is on the rocks. And also I have two Michelin tires, so. Right. I just saw your passport again, please. Oh, good heavens. Wow. What the shit. This is actually why we’re here in Wales to try and save our marriage. Oh, my God, baby, I think it’s working. Yes, OK.

S2: It’s just fantastic. It’s just the silliest fucking thing.

S6: And I love it because again, we never well, we rarely get to see him using his natural accent in jobs because, you know, he moved out of Wales is in Hollywood now. And I guess there aren’t that many Welsh roles in Hollywood these days except explicitly when you have to. And I love the origin of this particular episode is that he was apparently in a room or in a car with like a bunch of Oscar writers. And he began telling them the very serious story of the free Welsh Army. And, you know, apparently he was very kind of reticent. He was like, no, this is a serious story about, you know, how the British basically the English really kind of fucked over the Welsh, this particular flooding incident. And so they apparently wrote that in and did it seriously and also reverently, because that’s obviously. But I love that he also was kind of like, you don’t get to mock like my my culture, my accent, my my language, my whatever, like the cause, because he’s actually quite politically involved. He’s like a proper Welsh, like he’s proud of his roots and he stands up and does stuff and is super political. And again, I can’t lie. The roof wants that shit. I’m like, yes, I care about your country. Yes. Stand up against the oppressor. And so in playing Lloyd, he kind of leans into it a little bit. But it makes me laugh because also, weirdly enough, in playing this character, they basically gave him his own face. Yes.


S2: Which never happens. And it’s always like a guest voice. But no, they were like, no, do you want your face is like, all right. So they made his face. I love that so much. Oh, God, yes. Yes, I love it.

S7: I love this other show that he did with another Matthew, Matthew Goode. And it’s got the wine show. I think he only did maybe like two seasons of it before he had to move on to other stuff. But I love it because we do get to see more of that humorous side of him, more of that. It’s not just dry wit, but it’s just it’s really good natured ribbing that he does with his friends. And you can also see that the language that he and Matthew Goode have together as friends, that they are you know, they’re able to like look at each other, arch an eyebrow and then fall out giggling over stuff.

S2: Yes, I love that so much.

S5: And I just I also think that it shows kind of, you know, what kind of a friend that he is that he is is good natured júlio, good time kind of guy. But it’s wine. You know, you would think that he would be doing this over beer or something like that, but it’s wine and they’re just so silly together. And I like I used to watch the bloopers of the show because they would give the they would kind of frustrate the familiar that they would have.

S7: Sometimes you get stuck with them or whatever and teaching them stuff. And it’s so annoyed at the little jokes and the way that they would go off script or whatever. But, you know, I also love the show because he was wearing a beard.


S2: He was wearing his hide his beard. Yes. I love a hiatus beard. And those little Welsh girls were all over the place. So listen, now, people don’t realise some of your favorite British actors over the years. Guess what Welsh like fresh out of Wales, Anthony Hopkins, I believe he’s Welsh.

S6: Catherine Zeta Jones Welsh. Richard Burton Welsh. Michael Sheen Welsh. So what do you think about your faves? It’s not just all, you know, posh English guys, you know, being all flustered. Chances are it’ll be somebody fresh out of Wales delivering you some of that high quality training and coming to America and killing it. I think so. Shout out shout out to Wales in general for providing us with a very specific brand of kind of dark eyed, dark haired, soulful kind of performance, which I’m really into.

S7: But yes, Matthew Rhys, I would love to watch him watching a soccer football game. Thank you for the words. Thank you. Yes. Because I feel like he is the type of of fan, a little hooligan that I would enjoy because I don’t know how weighted that word is for me as a British person.

S2: When I say hooligan, it’s not you. I’m just I got instant hives, stress, hives immediately. That’s why I’m like, he would be the only person that I think that I would want to be around because I’ve seen some stuff and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s it’s triggering for me as a West Ham fan, I don’t ever want to.

S6: Encounter any kind of hooliganism, but I know exactly what you mean. It’s that passion we were seeing. I think that’s the thing. That’s the overwhelming feeling from him that I get, is that he is somebody who feels and feels very deeply and it comes out in the way he performs is always like an element of incredibly tight, controlled power to his performances. And he does have this really wonderful deep voice. And he is commanding and he is also arresting in a way that, you know, I don’t think a lot of actors have that specific quality. And it’s a shame because I think to myself, he has this thing that not many actors have, which is a sort of presence, a very old fashioned kind of presence where he is. I mean, and we say this all the time. I don’t want to kind of lean into her, into a man or whatever, but there are times when he would, in any performance of his where he would stand up straight and deliver something quite like straight down the middle and without meaning to at home. Watching my own back would straighten up, too. I’m going to be like, oh, what’s being said here? Like somebody is talking.


S7: Yes, there is a scene where Philip is in a parking garage with another character and we don’t know if Phillip is going to kill this person. Right. There is nothing on his face to let you know which way this scene is going to go. Right. Fantastic. Because it is so often you already know, OK, he’s going to let this person go or he’s going to kill this person. You have you had no idea yet. He is so good. So good. And I think that’s why he has this new show, Perry Mason, where he is playing the titular character. And there was this really funny thing that I sent to him, Perry Mason IV with this woman loopier, and they’re having sex. And it’s funny.

S2: It’s refreshing because he just looks so done, but in a good way, like I anyway, he looks so dead eyed by the end of it, like, I love that. So you send it to me and I could see, like, the camera was shaking because you were laughing as you were recording it. And I was like, yes, it it’s just really it’s just it’s a great scene. What? I’m going to spoil it. No, you should go watch.

S7: So I bring that up because of you talking about that old Hollywood charm. And that’s how he he brings life into this character, Perry Mason, in the way that they have done this, done the episode and the show. I can just see him like he would be so good in the actual film noir if we could get him in film noir movie and have his little film photo with him. And because he does seem to command attention when he enters a room and I don’t think that he’s very tall, like he might be five, ten or something like that. Again, just, you know, Hollywood average guy, his body, he is not cut, you know, that somebody that you would think of for a superhero role off the top of your head, or at least not the physique that we’ve become used to now. Right. But he is such a powerhouse.


S6: Yes. It’s the command. And he has like a really great as you said, he has such a great period face like he convinced as Darcy. No question he convinced us 80s Phillip. He does contemporary shit. Right. He has a face that is very malleable and good for period, whatever the period is. So now in Perry Mason, where he’s playing kind of like hard boiled and, you know, in his little jacket, his little hat and kind of like done with the world has seen some shit, you know, I believe you. I believe you. That’s his greatest quality. Whatever he is doing, even in the most outlandish wig and, like, face furniture they could put on him in the Americans, I was like, I believe you. And that is a rare skill. We are not kind of watching an actor star in, but you’re watching the performer just perform the thing and you get completely sucked in. And that to me, I mean, there’s a number of things as we’ve established that, you know, press people’s buttons. But there is something about watching Matthew Rhys like enter the frame and then effortlessly pull your gaze. He doesn’t even have to do much.

S7: Right. Right.

S6: It’s black magic, man. It is. I don’t know how he does it, but I just want to commend him. And I hope that we get to watch him for many years to come, because I don’t think it’s physically possible for me to be tired of watching him do what he does because he does it so fucking well.

S7: Sam, I would really be interested in watching something that he has written because I feel like he when he comes into the room that he takes. Account of everything in the room in order to be able to react to it, in order to be able to use it, so I feel like his writing would be really good and thoughtful and also kind of deep and dark, you know.


S2: You know what? I love this vision you have of him, and I want it to be true. Come on, Matthew, you write something. Nicole is waiting. Oh, I’m ready for it also. Just, you know, that’s what she said. You’re in New York somewhere. Come through to Brooklyn. Let’s have a drink. I mean, is it really worth caring, even Carrie? Let’s have a little chat.

S6: Like, I am genuinely fascinated by him, his choices. He has made stunning choices, knows how to act his way out of any fucking corner. You could put him in a my dream for him, I suppose, is in addition to all the writing that he will maybe one day do. I would love to see him in a loose physical comedy somewhere where you could utilize some of the warmth and charm that is so apparent in the wine show, for example, or what he did in Archer, where he’s someone who’s not afraid to laugh at himself. And again, it comes down to comfort and ease when you’re confident in your body and in yourself. A joke is a joke in it. And I feel that Matthew gets that.

S2: He gave what he gives me. Colin Farrell, comedy by. Not so good at comedy, and you would not think he would be bright. He’s got it. So I see that from Matthew. That was a perfect parallel, Nicole. Oh, it’s almost as if you’re true to this and not new to this. I love it. OK, Nicole. So I feel like we introduced several facets to the Matthew Rhys Diamond, as it were. I like that I in the Matthew with diamonds. OK, well, my theory is I’ve listened in my spare time. I make a game show segments. So the material is diamond. It is. And I feel like we brought like fourth elements of comedy and like pathos. And he we spoke a lot as one of your favorite things, his acting, his face acting. And I feel like that gave us a really big well to draw from when it came to our troubles. Indeed. Indeed. I’m excited to hear what what you have drawn from this.


S8: Well, of I mean, I kind of danced around a lot because I was like, do I want to lean into him as like a twinkly eyed, funny guy, shout out to Archer? Or do I want to lean into, like, intense, kind of like desperately in love with his wife or can’t say shit? Is that the thing I want to kind of pull out? And I couldn’t find a happy medium. I couldn’t I couldn’t land on either of those things. I couldn’t find a happy medium. So I just went to the bit that I love about him the best, which I suppose is a sort of distant figure to be yearned after.

S2: Does that make sense? Yes. Yes, I’m with you, OK. Your eyes are closed. I can tell you with me you’re like, yes, I’m in it.

S8: Yes, yes. This is delicious. OK, good. I hope you like the Straubel then, because I went somewhere that I don’t normally go and I know it’s a trip that I know you’re not keen on, so I hope you enjoyed the way I resolved it.

S11: Maybe I’m so intrigued.

S8: OK, hold your intrigue. That’s OK.

S15: I gave the line ahead of me a surreptitious glance. There were maybe 15 more people in front of me and did some educated mathematics. This was the last night of this book tour. And I have come to understand that most people aren’t actually big talkers while they’re getting their book signed. I estimated another 15 to 20 minutes and continued signing despite the cramp in my hand and the crick in my neck smiling. I estimated another 15 to 20 minutes and continued signing despite the cramp in my hand and the crick in my neck, smiling and getting into position for awkward one armed phone photographers, my gratitude was mixed up in a ball of fatigue and homesickness. I was ready to be home again, working on the next thing. Sleeping late. The bookseller assigned to my event made eye contact in the quick pause between readers flashing her palm in our prearranged signal five more and then we were done. I smiled at her quickly, looked up to see my next reader. The breath started out with me. I sat there, mouth agape, taking in the man in front of me, his waves more closely cut than usual, his eyes standing out a little more because of his beard, his lips curved in a tentative smile. Matthew, I said. Finally, his gaze raked over my face quickly but intently. Bhim, he replied, his voice is soft and as warm as I remembered. And then we just looked at one another. Years of history on Fastforward in the Way. We smiled slow and nostalgic, remembering a time long before the lives we were living. Now, shall I sign your book? I asked, stabbing the air with my pen. As I gestured towards his bag, he snaps out of the haze of memory and nodded. Yeah, I’d like that. The Welsh inflection was fainter than when I’d first known him to foreigners in America trying life out. But it was still there. I opened the book to the title page, raised my pen and paused. I don’t know what to write, I confessed quietly. What do you want me to write? It took a half step closer. The bulk of him suddenly looming and a memory surged ahead of the others. You could write to my one time muse, Matthew, whom I still think about fondly from time to time. I looked up at him then and for a moment I saw who he had once been. And in his eyes I saw who I had once been to. Muse is a bit strong, I said, my head tilted cheekily and he laughed, his glorious musical laugh, teeth gleaming, head thrown back, awkwardness briefly forgotten. Sure, he replied. Eventually, we shared another look and a decision was made in the silence. I looked down to scrawl something on the page, and I felt his unwavering gaze the whole time. When I was done, I handed the book over. Read it later, I instructed softly, and he nodded. I stood up to hand the book over and he came around the table. We hugged and the contact squeezed out the remaining history between our bodies, arms and torso. Recognizing this familiar territory. After a long hiatus, we finally separated and shared another self-conscious laugh. Call me next time you’re in New York, he said, will have dinner. I nodded, but I knew I wouldn’t. Not now. He leaned in again to kiss my cheek and his beard grazed my face. He held off his book. It was good to see you. He said with a final nod. And then he was gone again. I already knew tomorrow I would wake up and think I had dreamed it.


S10: I love this so much.

S3: I’m so glad I know you hate rekindled, I like love is returning.

S2: I know you hate that. So I was like, how do I make it? So it’s Nicole friendly. There will be no happy ending, obviously. Yes. Yes. I don’t like it in real life, but I love it and fix it. So yes, I love the. Yes. OK, great. I also love a love what could have been moment. I do. Yes. I love that. Yes. Oh I’m so glad. Nicole this is. Oh man. I love that. Thank you so much. No thank you.

S8: OK, I’m excited now because I want to hear what you’ve cooked up. Like, you know, which facet of the Madurese diamond are you reaching for, for this trouble?

S10: OK, I am going to give you intense Matthew.

S5: I started watching the Americans and of course you did. And so there’s. OK, so you know how the good wife. Right? Most of the action happened in the elevator. Yes. Yes. OK, so the Americans also had kind of the central place in the home of the Jenning’s.

S10: So I’m kind of using that as my catalyst, as my starting point.

S2: Oh, my God. I think I know I think I know the room of the house you’re going to be doing this in. And I am primed and at the edge of my seat. Go forth, Nicole. I am ready, OK.

S10: I just needed a little more help this time, I said fighting the rise of my temper. I pushed my plate away, appetite gone next to me. Matthew drank calmly from his wine glass, which annoyed me even more. I’m sorry, he said. I’ll take care of everything tonight. Don’t worry about it. I got it. I rose from the kitchen table and started scraping my plate. I moved around the kitchen, putting food away, cleaning the stove and counters. When Matthew came into the kitchen to deal with his own barely touched plate, I told him to leave it and I deal with it. I wanted him out of my sight while I calmed down. I stared out of the window above the kitchen sink, then started to fill it with water to wash the dishes. A sure sign. I was upset. I hated washing dishes, but I needed something mechanical to do to give myself a time out. He walked up behind me but didn’t touch me. I felt his heat all the same, so I turned off the water and waited. Yes, I’m sorry, he said again, and pressed his forehead against the back of my neck. I dropped my head and shoulders and closed my eyes with a heavy sigh. I know he moved his left hand to my waist and held it there, waiting for my response. I tilted my neck to give his lips room to play, and he began punching up the skirt of my summer dress bitch. My annoyance shrank as his fingers walked. Apologies along the back of my thighs. I arched into him and he curved his mouth against my ear. Do you think the neighbors can see us? He whispered. The fuck out. I grip the counter and inched my feet apart. He smiled into my neck before he bearded face me.


S2: He said, Oh God, I’m going to sue you for emotional distress.

S3: Why? Because there is a lot of energy in that drawable.

S2: West, the fuck shallow person put it. Riddle me that, Nicole Perkins, riddle me that because, wow, congratulations. And it was a Beyonce. What are you going to say, my funeral now that you’ve killed me. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. But the Americans, they did a lot at that kitchen sink. Boy, I really did. I tell you what, I don’t think there was another room in the house besides the garage. It was all the kitchen. Yes. All in the sink. Yes. Wow. Well, what a vivid picture you have painted for us tonight. Nicole, will I be able to wash the dishes after my own dinner tonight? Probably not. Probably not, because anybody touched my neck. Just the occasional thud from the sink landing on my face, mimicking a tear, as I said, with one single tear, the wash the dishes show my plates are clean, but everything else is Dirty Nicole. Right. You know, I’m scratching my neck from the sweat because it’s so hot, but that’s about it. There’s no nobody watching. What I love is how you both depressed me, but also yourself. So good job. Well done. A mutual depression society. Wow. That’s you know what? On that note, we turn to the listener first. Phuket’s you already know what to do. We will give you a day to let these travelers ruminate in your soul.

S6: You get to decide maybe you prefer doing the dishes with Matthew, or maybe you want like a wistful goodbye in a crowded bookstore in New York. It’s up to you. Pop on to our Twitter. Take your time. Think about it. But as we love to say, whoever you vote for, there are no losers here. And ultimately, what we’re doing is enjoying some gentle fiction or maybe not so gentle, bearing in mind what Nicole just fucking rich.


S16: First aid kit and slate production produced by Shirvington and us, then at me and Nicole Perkins, our music is by Tanya Morgan.

S17: You can follow the show on Twitter at their secrets.

S16: And we’re on Tumblr at Thursday, polka dot, Tumblr, dot com. If you’d like to listen and live tweet. There is a hashtag. It’s TICC board that’s take poddy and you can join us on Facebook every Thursday or any other time. If you prefer, you can write us an email and send it to first aid kit at Slate dot com.

S17: If you find yourself wishing to get even more on Thursday, can content every week. Well, you’re in luck because you can. All you have to do is become a slate plus member Slate plus its membership program for just thirty five dollars for the first year. You’ll get a little extra from this show and all other slate shows plus. Absolutely no. Is it flatback CogState plus to sign up.

S18: All right, people stay thirsty but stay safe.

S19: Masks on by bye.

S7: Little cutie patootie, he’s funny. Yes, great acting chops, obviously. I just think that he would be a really good finish.

S3: That sentence he made up that he had, he would be a really good time just to hang out at a bar.

S2: OK, OK, thank you.

S4: I wasn’t sure what you were going, but that pause made me pause and work on classlessness.

S20: Hello. I mean.

S5: Oh, OK. So you know, during our main episode about Matthew Reese, I said I really did not understand Pride and Prejudice, the appeal of all of that crap and all of that crap.

S7: Yes, I thought I was like, boom, maybe you can save this for a plus segment and you can’t try to convince me what I’m missing out on. So you know what we just decided. Fuck it. Let’s do it with that.


S8: So first of all, I personally, to be honest, I’m kind of like, do I want to convince her she just called it all of that crap? So to be honest, I’ve not come in here feeling like you’re rooting for me. And that’s Off-putting to me, if I’m honest.

S2: However, I will put aside my hurt pride and no pun intended, and I will not let that prejudice me. And I will go forth, see what I did in the worst case, not my first time.

S8: OK, that was cheesy. I apologize to all the dads everywhere. I have stolen your joke. OK, so here’s the thing. I come to you a woman born in a certain time who was exposed very early. Two writers from the British canon of which Jane Austen is a member. OK, so her books turn up, I think, in schools I have to stress that I did not read Jane Austen for school, so I approached her purely as pleasure. Never a chore. But of course, there are a lot of adaptations of Austen’s work on TV. So I grew up so many adaptations.

S3: I know.

S8: The thing is, she didn’t even write that many fucking books, which goes to tell you the limited imagination of many a commissioning editor out there who’s going to put that on the table, especially because Jane Austen and specifically Pride and Prejudice is the one that they got right on the first go like there. There’s literally no need to ever revisit that shit, OK? There are countless works of new fiction out in the world that are begging for adaptations. And yet every time you imagine a new broom commissioning editor coming in and kind of being, you know what, this world needs another awesome. It’s like, no, you don’t, first of all, know so well that what that said, I do think that the original Pride and Prejudice, the one starring Colin Firth and Jennifer Lee, I think those characters came alive and stayed alive for many people purely because of the actors and the whole set piece. It was written by Andrew Davies. I can’t remember the director, but this was like a labor of love that I think was received at the time with near orgasmic delight and went with this what it was the 90s. I was a teenager, so I was exactly primed. That was the year that I really got into Jane Austen. And ever since then, I’ve kind of read some Austen every year, like I reread Emma or Pride and Prejudice or Northanger Abbey or Persuasion. I have to just kind of just to get in that world in the summertime. It feels very summery to me.


S9: Nicole Interesting. OK, yeah. Yeah.

S2: So I don’t know where to begin because even now your face is semi scrunched up. Like, that’s cute. Nice for you to give me an origin story, but I care and I don’t know where to begin to tell me what your problems are with Pride and Prejudice. And I will try my best to knock them down, OK.

S9: Darcy Mm hmm. I don’t.

S5: And who is the love interest for him, Elizabeth Bennet. OK, how are we supposed to know that they love each other if they are constantly saying that they hate each other?

S15: They don’t constantly say they hate each other. Next question.

S9: Now, are you sure? Because I’m very sure everyone is just like, oh, he was me to her. And then he touched her breast and then they got married.

S8: First of all, that is a horribly simplistic breakdown of what is essentially a very complex conversation that occurs over the period of months for these two characters. They don’t hate each other. They see one another. They realize that this person moves and have kind of verified circles that they don’t want to be a part of, you know what I mean? OK, so so, for example, his hair has the origin story. Mr. Bingley comes to town in the little town and they rent a house nearby and they stay with, you know, the dances. And there’s a whole little kind of like snootiness to not Mr. Binggeli himself, but his sisters, one in particular who has designs on Dossi. She’s in many ways one of the original rom com bitches that we will come to know as we get older and there are more materials in that canon. OK, so Miss Binggeli is she looks down on the country, the simple country folk, the kind of life that Elizabeth Bennet and her sisters are living. And so she’s very snobbish. And Darcy responds to that. They’re both kind of upper class idiots about this shit. Right. But as Elizabeth herself kind of says later on, she is the daughter of a gentleman. Mr. Darcy is a gentleman. So essentially they are equals. So I don’t even understand why you’re being such a hoity toity dickhead, which for me personally, I’m like, tell him, bitch. Tell him. So I’m all the way in on that. So she sees him. He’s super snooty. She’s like, fuck you and the horse you rode. And sometimes literally and then she basically turns her attentions away. She’s like, fuck this guy. And nothing he does, like everything he does is kind of like almost begrudging. He’s so suspicious of what her motives might be. He’s so kind of taken by the coarseness of her family. And to be fair to Darcy, her family is kind of trash, like they’re embarrassing.


S2: And it’s just like I get it. I see why he’s kind of like, oh, God, no, thank you. I get it. OK, so he thinks that she’s just after his money and station.

S8: Well, not even that he thinks her family is embarrassing and is after money and status like because in particular, Mrs. Bennett is kind of a silly little fool, or at least in appearance to my mind, especially as I’ve got older and considered her over the years. She is a woman who understands that the the life that women lead is based on who they marry. So what she’s being is super fucking smart about her children’s prospects. She’s like, fuck this. I have to make sure that before we are dead and definitely after we’re dead, these girls have a sort of marital home so that they are looked after well into that. She’s very, very savvy. She’s just kind of uncouth with it.

S9: Right? She doesn’t she’s very open about it and would.

S2: Yeah, well, not even just not even just open. She is she’s kind of it’s a little bit off-putting. Imagine if you met someone who every other question was and how much does he earn. You like irises.

S9: OK, ok, so she’s kind of grassby she’s a little, she’s, she’s, you know, thirsty in a way that we don’t like.

S2: Hmm. Nailed it. Thank you for reducing the lexicon correctly. Yes.

S8: She’s thirsty in a way we don’t like. And I think it’s understandably off-putting to a rich gentleman such as Darcy. Like, you know what? We all know what this game is, but chill the fuck out, right?


S9: OK, yes. All right. I see. OK, so Elizabeth, she sees him. She’s like, you don’t have to treat my family like this, right? Yeah.

S8: Oh, yeah. You don’t have to call your lip every time when you have said it. Even though my sister is embarrassing herself right this minute. And yes, the whole party can see her. It’s still not for you, sir, to kind of be chatting about me. And he’s kind of like he’s not very guarded. So sometimes he’ll say stuff when she’s in er by accident, but still she hears the shit and she’s like, come the fuck on. Like, what are you even doing now inconveniently as they are having this kind of silent antagonism. Lizzie Sister Jane is falling for Mr Binggeli, who is Darcy’s best friend.

S9: OK, so we have an enemies to love her and also a sibling situation happening.

S2: So of. Yes, yes. Yeah.

S9: OK, so what exactly makes Dorothy swoon worthy? Because everyone is always like it’s all about Dorothy, but he seems to be someone who also it’s not very mannerable in the way that he approaches his. Right.

S8: OK, that’s a valid question, I’m glad you asked it 10 points to you. So my feeling is this. Darsey is a man who I think I’ve mentioned this before many a time on the show. Niccolò If there is a sternman in my vicinity, I will drop trou, like immediately. I’m just kind of like, let’s go. So he is a stern man. He keeps a very tight lid. And we find out why later on in the book, because he once was almost the victim of a terrible swindle, in fact, was a victim of a terrible swindler, which is the third element to this. So there is a friendship that Lizzie cultivates very happily with this other guy. Wickham and Wickham is a flibbertigibbet, a fool, a terrible man. And he essentially years ago, spoilers for this many hundred years old book, but he attempted to seduce Darcis younger sister. Now, that was egregious enough for what was even worse is that Mr. Darcey’s Darcy’s father had raised with them as a sort of Kosten, you know, so this motherfucker turned it around and tried to turn and get Georgian’s money. And he found out, like he basically wistar away after fucking threatener tried to marry him so that he can claim her fortune and he discovered it just in time. And the important thing is as young as everybody to get married. Back then, Georgiana was 18. She was like 16 years old. And this motherfucker tried it. So, like, does this kind of like, fuck Vickerman? Also, look how you look at your family, man. If you’re friends with Wickham, you are certainly no friends of mine. Right? So it’s all these things coming together. But like I said, the fundamental thing is Dulci is stern, so I’m already half way in, like, you know, I’ve unhooked my bra. I am about to go in straight away. But on top of that, he is someone who I think knows that the world sees him as a disagreeable sort of very kind of, you know, angry little man. And he’s trying. But every so often he realizes the world is full of faults and it’s like, fuck you anyway.

S2: And I have to respect that, Nicole. I have to. OK, so in the book, is he even cute? Yes. Are we. Yes, but you can be described as being Hanse. He is described enough. He has a fine countenance. He has strong shoulders. He has a good head of hair. Yes, actually. Wow. I thought I thought. Looks at a matter. Nicole Oh wow. No, I have to put up with somebody, you know, talking shit about my family. I got to be something else besides like money. OK, that’s true. He is he is described sparingly, I have to say, to answer correctly. But it’s there there is there are like allusions to his height, his bearing, you know, sometimes because Liz is looking at him through this kind of like, you know, weird film.

S8: She’s like, I guess that’s cocky, but I guess if you want to call it confident, fine. So she’s kind of like she can see it. You know, Lizzie has eyes, they work. She’s kind of like he’s tall, he’s got whatever. And also casually he’s on ten thousand a year, which I think is kind of like five hundred million in today’s money, whatever the fuck I like. This is kind of like if he’s not cute now, he’ll be cute enough if we were to get somewhere. But at the same time, and this is very important, Lizzie remains steadfastly principled about this. She’s like, yes, he’s fine, yes, he’s rich. But fuck this guy. She is very much kind of like this snooty you know, she she’s deeply prejudiced against him and she thinks it’s his pride, like his he kind of walks around Hoity-toity. She’s like, you know, what I don’t need is some dude who thinks he’s better than me because, yes, maybe he is. But how uncouth have you to bring that up? So for all of your walking around with your proud bearing in your blah, blah, blah, actually what I don’t need is someone who’s going to belittle me and yes, my silly mother and yes, my silly sisters. But that’s that’s like I get to talk shit about my family. You don’t.

S9: Right? Right. OK, I understand that element.

S7: OK, so at what point does she changed her mind, sir?

S8: Because we, the evil swindler always on the look out for his next game. He he takes his eye because he knows that. And that’s the other thing. Work on lies. And like he makes up a whole background about, oh, Mr. Darcy, his you know, the let Mr. Darcy was such a good man to me. But as soon as he died, Darcy turned on me and he tried to like he cheated me out of the inheritance that Mr. Darcy would have wanted me to have and blah, blah, blah. So he tells all of this to the Bennet sisters who are kind of like, oh, fuck, Mr. Darcy in Gentille terms, obviously, but they just kind of like, screw that guy. How dare he? Whitcombe You sweet, lovely, charming militia man. How could you, you know, like, what a shame for you to be tied to that dreadful, prideful family. Right. But Whitcombe, having taken his gaze off of Georgiana because he was kind of caught in the act, he kind of turns his gaze to the Bennetts. Now, Liz is feeling some feelings because as described in the book over and over, Wickham is very charming. He’s very clearly very hot. And like on the TV show, he was played by a young man who is very gentle on the eyes.

S2: I have to say, I was like, oh, yeah, I get it. You’re Rakeysh. You’re out there in the military doing stuff. Yes. I do would be interested, but then Liz is kind of like she’s not all the way turned over so quickly, Wickham turns his gaze and he takes on perhaps the Bennett’s most ridiculous, silly child, Lydia. And they abscond. They they leave the shire. They go off. Worst thing of all, because if you’re going to do that, you go off to Gretna, you get married. There’s a tiny bit of disgrace, but at least you’re married. Worse, though, they don’t go to Gretna. The motherfuckers, these two stupid idiots, they instead go to London. They remain unmarried. Bear in mind the time that this is set in. So they are out gallivanting like they’re on some road trip, unmarried, taking one chamber in some shitty little hotel. And it’s like, Sir, madam, what the fuck? OK, OK. But then and this is another bit that really my whole body became a throbbing heartbeat. Dulci steps in because he’s kind of like, oh no. The reason why this has happened is that I was too proud to tell you that I had myself been a victim. My sister and I had been a victim of this motherfucker. But don’t worry, sis, I’m handling it OK?

S9: I do like it when American you know, when the first guy comes and they check somebody, OK, I like that.

S3: I know you like I know you like that you’re cutting it. Yeah. Yes. I used to like it. Yeah I built it. Oh yeah. That with me. OK, thank you.

S2: I don’t like to call myself a modern day officer, but Nicole I have to say sometimes my storytelling is Austin esque anyway.

S3: OK. OK. Yeah ok.

S2: But but but but but but I have to say that turn in the book for me and on the TV show is when I sat up like my back was straight, I was like, is it Darcy? Before I knew it I was body rolling. I was all the way and I was like, I’m in. That’s the stuff that for me turned it. And you can see Elizabeth also kind of be like, oh, dang, all right, take charge. So and so he does. He goes out there, his face. Colin Firth has oh, I just want to eat it. He’s kind of just like he takes charge. He goes he doesn’t send a lackey to London.

S8: He goes himself, he’s out there. He’s like, no, this is my fault because of my own pride, because I couldn’t reveal, like, my soft underbelly. Now, your poor sister has got involved with a swindler, a con man. I am so sorry about this. And prior to this, of course, he’s kind of made he’s kind of made an advance, Elisabet, like he’s kind of like that I want to marry you. But he does it so insultingly. It is the worst proposal I have ever seen or read in my. It is it’s basically kind of like fuck your family, but I guess yoku or whatever, want to get married. And he reads him for Phil. He’s like, despite myself, he’s like a well not do I have tried in vain to like dash away these feelings. And she’s like, wait, I’m a problem that you have to get over. Fuck you and your mom. Right. RHP Sorry Mrs. D’Arcy, but she’s just kind of like, I don’t need this shit. Like if you call that a proposal, I hope you never get married. I hope no other woman ever says yes to such a botched attempt at trying to woo me like, fine, you find my family objectionable and beneath you. That is not part of your fucking proposal, sir. So, like, there’s already one thought to think. So he’s doing this despite her having said if you were the last man in England, I would not marry you. And then this happens. And does it look kind of like, yes, you rejected me. But you know what? I’m such a man of high principle that I’m going to go to London and find this motherfucker who once tried to kind of get my sister’s wealth and is now clearly trying to ruin your sister. And that’s the point at which Elizabeth is kind of like any time you want it, this couch is yours. So that’s a very important part of the book, because that’s also a turning point for the reader, where you’re kind of like, oh, my God, finally they’re seeing one another as they truly are. He always thought she was a little bit kind of like pompous and maybe part of a silly family. She thought he was definitely pompous and a dickhead. And suddenly in a situation where there is adversity, he steps in. She’s just kind of like, oh, my God, take it. Whatever you want is yours. And of course, everything is resolved and then they get to do it.

S9: OK, and this is written the.

S2: This is sure. Yeah. There’s a lot of bosoms, it’s fine. Yeah, it’s Regency ish. OK. Yeah. So the thing is, Nicole, yes, if you are predetermined to not enjoy this sort of work, it’s not for you, nothing will turn you around.

S8: But what I will say is this for much of the rom com, Cannan, Pride and Prejudice remains a fundamental foundation in a way that if you enjoy anything in the modern era, there will be a tangible, like linear situation where you can trace it to Pride and Prejudice. Like the thing about the book, really, for me, beyond the Darcy and Elizabeth of it all and of course the the yearning thirst that sometimes kind of pops up is for me, the joy of her language. She is so aware that everything is deeply silly, but she understands that, silly as it might be, it’s a rule of society. And so she skewers it. There’s a lot of fun. There are so many funny lines where she’s just kind of skewering the idea of matrimony. And, you know, the opening line, the famous opening line, you know, any man with a fortune, right? She’s she’s setting it up to kind of be like, isn’t this silly? So, like, half the time she is turning to wink at the audience and kind of be like, do you see this? Do you see this? It’s trash, isn’t it? Anyway, next story. And I really appreciate a woman who I think she never married. So she was like, I’m wealthy, bitch, I don’t need to do this shit, but I can still poke fun at some of this nonsense. And I really love it because she doesn’t belittle the importance of a woman getting married at this time. It was a very important thing. And I think my evolution has occurred actually with the Bennett family and less with with Elizabeth and Darcy, who are still kind of like Staples. But like I think about the ways in which we understand Mrs. Bennett as this silly woman who raises silly children and so on and so forth. And the reality, of course, is that she’s just a woman who understood that life would be very difficult indeed if her daughters did not marry well. And I have so much more sympathy for her. I kind of really dismissed her as just like a silly airhead who just didn’t know how to speak. You know, there’s a Uraba saying or module mahrer like you don’t see people’s faces. You don’t know how people are, like, basically essentially read the room, read the fucking room. And this has been like repeatedly did not know how to read a room will say so far the loudest possible volume. So much so that even at the end when Darcy comes to ask for Elizabeth’s hand, she is very like I guess and so is Bennett’s father, because at this point, of course, it’s been a case of just like. But isn’t he like an odious man? Why would you want to marry him and don’t understand? Because the other thing as well is that he makes Lydia promise not to tell Elizabeth or the rest of the family that he was the one who bailed her out, because after she tells him, oh, my God, Lydia and Wickham, he’s like, I must I must excuse myself. And she’s like, oh, my God, my shameful family. But he kind of leaves in a rush. And that’s when he has to look. He doesn’t tell Elizabeth. He just handles the shit.

S2: Right. So that seems silly, Lydia lets it slip and she’s like, wait, what? Excuse me? And she’s like, Oh yeah, Mr. Darcy was I don’t know why he was there. But anyway, he told me not to tell you, but yeah, he was. And she’s like, wait a goddammit. Then she realizes what he did and she’s like, oh my God. And that’s the point again, like I said, that she essentially throws her pantaloons at him like, all right, is yours. So OK, OK. It’s very hot. Nicole. It is very hot. Get into it, I don’t care, I don’t get into it, you know, I.

S5: I think part of the problem is I prefer the more Gothic brookner.

S2: Yes, Jane Bronto, you’re a fan of Wuthering Heights, like the the ANCs. You know, that’s what I want. Yeah. This feels to me like a fundamental years ago, there was a very silly poll that I kind of rolled my eyes up. But now I think about it. I’m like, you know what? Wasn’t that ridiculous? It was a question of, are you a Didion girl or a Ephron girl? And I was like, look, I am an Ephron. Like I like Joan Didion. I think she’s solid. I’m not inside the writing the way I am with Nora Ephron. So I grew up. I read Jane Eyre first as a child and I was completely in love with I read it alongside, like Dickens, you know, lots of Oliver Twist and unfortunate, you know, families and, you know, siblings and all sorts of stuff. And then I read Jane Austen and I was like, oh, okay, OK. This is so much more fun. And so I hear you on the Gothic thing because Mr Rochester was maybe my first literary crush. I think we mentioned the years ago on the show because again, he was also on the TV adaptation, especially he was played by Timothy Dalton, my favorite bond, aka the best bond. So I was really into OK, so I was really into Jane Eyre. And so I understand your attraction to the Gothic, you know, kind of like the barbaric kind of like under the. Yeah, I need I need a little edge with the Jane and a wife in the attic. Yes I.

S5: Oh my God. I love Jane Eyre so much. I read it every summer. OK, so I was maybe like twenty five. I thought wow it looks like what I would do. I just loved, I love the the wife in the attic. I loved the wide Sargasso Sea, which was like a take on the wife in the attic.

S9: I loved Hatcliffe and the more and him being a more maybe I don’t know, whatever his situation was, all of them.

S5: I mean give me a little darkness to go with it. So I have tried to read Pride and Prejudice several times over the years, you know, as a child. And I just I’m just going to say it was not for me in the first few chapters that I read. I have yet to read it and completion. I have never watched any of the adaptations. I think I try to watch the Colin Firth one, or at least I put it like in my Q on one of the streaming services and I just have yet to pull the trigger. I will try my best before the end of the year, I can guarantee.

S18: You know what? I’ll take it, because here’s the thing. I do think you have to be in the right frame of mind to kind of accept the kind of work she’s presenting in Pride and Prejudice. It’s not immediately if it’s not something you would normally gravitate towards, it might take a while for you to kind of get into it. So I understand that. And I’m not here to kind of, like, convince you to change your taste. It’s impossible. But I will say that if you get past or rather if you put yourself in the frame of mind to receive it for what it is like, there are some things that I have read that I’m just kind of like I’m not feeling it, but this is well done. And I think I think if you can get past this idea of this is not all the way like my soul song, but I understand the rhythm. I can get the beat. I think this book is particularly rewarding. And in a way, yes, the first is great.

S16: Dulci is a Colin Firth meant so much to preteen and teen me, but also on its own merits. It’s such a clever book about class and mobility and I guess gender in a very specific time, in a very specific place that also still has lessons for today. OK, I will try again at some point before twenty twenty is over because that’s all I ask. That’s all I ask. Why not. You know why. Fatalistic approach. You know what. But that is the tenor of twenty twenty so I’m going to take it. Why. What have you got to lose. Just a couple of hours indoors anyway since this was. Yes. OK, there you go. OK, you have not necessarily convinced me that it is. Fantastic. But I will give it a second chance. You know what such is the color 20 20 that I’m like that is the highest possible. Yes, I could get. Thanks, Michael Holmes.