Amy Klobuchar? How About Stacey Abrams?

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S1: And I have always known that the only thing we want for Naomi is what your loved ones want for you is something no one can guarantee, a life of happiness, success and fulfillment. The courage to get up when you get knocked down purpose that provides meaning, a good life. Now, the search for one is in sharper focus lately. We’ve all had to stop and ask yourself what matters most to.

S2: It’s our job to make sure that unemployment remains strong and that we understand the states can’t do it all. I did not anticipate it would be a pandemic that shut down the world, but we knew that in the United States there would be some action taken likely by the purveyors of voter suppression that would push us into an unparalleled, unprecedented posture. And it happened.

S3: Hello and welcome to Trump Cast. I’m Virginia Heffernan. So what are you all doing about movies with canceled actors? I know this isn’t strictly speaking about politics, but I watched The Usual Suspects the other night and I found a way to do something. I’m calling suspend cancellation of Kevin Spacey. It’s it’s a difficult mental act. And I watched him play Verbal Kent. And I was willing to I was able to enjoy it. Now, I’m telling you, this is a tricky mental kind of kind of complexity of to engage and to save a movie that has a canceled person in it. But what I decided. All right. So you need a rationalization for your own usual suspects fix. I told myself that Spacey in the movie is basically typecast as a predatory con man and a quasi sociopath. So I decided the movie brought out his Kevin Spacey ness. It served as a critique of it, rather than whitewashing it like a Woody Allen movie might do for Woody Allen. And that made watching it OK. But, you know, you can tell I was just finding a way to watch usual suspects. Wow. Am I overthinking it? Also Usual Suspects has an even worse and long canceled director, which I’d forgotten since. Just don’t listen me about any of this. But if you have any tips on how to suspend cancellation while watching a movie with a canceled actor in it, please find me on Twitter at page 88. OK, definitely. Speaking of cancellation, a participation trophy goes to Joe Biden haters for trying once again with only a hint of desperation to cancel Joe Liberal Barry Smy. Well, when that didn’t catch on and what was said again was like something to do with chem trails. Anyway, a seeming savior emerged for Biden haters in the figure of Tara Reid, a animal rights activist and drifter with what turns out to be a history of petty cons. Anyway, she claimed that Biden sexually assaulted her in the 90s. Bingo. They had it. Alas, terror. Reid’s story didn’t pass the smell test and then it didn’t pass the test test. And now there have been dozens of investigative pieces debunking it. And columnists from Joan Walsh to Katha Pollitt to Susan Faludi have also kicked the tires of both the wobbly tale and especially the way it’s been leveraged in bad faith to bludgeon liberals and feminists. Susan Faludi’s column in The New York Times and Katha Pollitt column in The Nation. I highly recommend both. And so Tara Reid goes down with Barry PSMA as a nice try. Biden smear, but no cigar. That was not a Bill Clinton joke anyway. We have a long summer of bringdown Biden escapade to head and know that dirty tricksters, although many of their power forwards, have been deep platformed or jail like my, you know, Apple s or Roger Stone. But anyway, the dirty tricksters that are left to kind of G.V. crowd are going to give it a big shot. Expect to learn about many dates that will make your head spin with Tedham. It’ll be like searching for a you are all to buy and go Daddy. Joe Gay. Joseph Gay. Joe Bamma Gate. Biden Gate. Joseph Robinette Biden Junior Gate Dot Viv Malarky Gate. That’s my favorite malarky gate. My guest today is a Trump cast favourite. She’s Christina Greer, political scientist, par excellence associate professor at Fordham, the author of Black Ethnics, a co-host of F.A.A. Q NYC politics editor of The Grio and host of The Aftermath on Occy dot com. I will say, you Cartes know how I love a tangent, right? Well, Christina might even have me beat in tangent Ofelia or not have me. Exactly. But more like. See what I did there. Started on a tangent anyway. Christine is the perfect person to talk to about electoral politics, white supremacy and of course, how race informs the race. Christina, welcome back to Trump Cast.

S4: I love being here with you.

S3: You’re one of my favorite people to talk to. Do you believe the last time you were here so blah, blah, blah? One hundred years ago, last summer, we were talking about why Democrats were so slow to impeach Donald Trump. Oh, wow. We haven’t even discussed the impeach. We’ve blown past all these hallmarks. Oh, now or in the desolation with the plague and the meric out of work and market capitalism drawn to a screeching halt in Denver. He brought the rats. So forget about the murder of Hornets. How do you think the impeachment of let’s just call him impeached president Donald Trump is going to factor into the campaigns this summer?

S4: Well, I think he’s emboldened. I mean, he did not learn a lesson. You know, the Republicans are. You know, in for a penny, in for a pound. And I think they realized, you know, they stood by him. They saw what happened to Mitt Romney who’s, you know, a second generation public servant. And he’s been ostracized, you know, to say nothing of the death threats that he and his family have received and just completely disrespected. I’m not I don’t vote for Mitt Romney. And I wasn’t a huge fan of many of his policies. But like, let’s be clear, he has served and continues to serve our nation. He does deserve a modicum of respect, which he’s not even getting from his own party, let alone the president. So we knew, you know, if he wasn’t removed from office, he would ignore this impeachment and trying to frame it as this is just sour grapes on behalf the Democrats, they’re trying to get back at me because I beat Hillary fair and square, which we all know get assistance. And the sad thing is for me, it’s that Donald Trump has always been Donald Trump. You know, I live in New York. We all know that he’s a snake oil salesman. We all know that he is. He doesn’t read. He’s not smart. He’s given money from his father. He’s been bailed out time and time again by various entities because of the branding. But I think my real disappointment has been in these lifelong senators who even though I didn’t agree with their policies, that the policies of their party, that I still respect to them because they served the nation. And I thought that they were trying to solve problems from their particular vantage point, which I just happen to disagree with. But like it, I still thought they really cared about the good of the nation. Yeah. And I think many of them acted that way for a very long time. And you’ve just seen this complete and total sell out of their souls and their own constituents. And you know what? I’d liken it to doping in track and field or baseball. Yes. Because if this is a smash and grab presidency where everyone’s just like, well, listen, I got to get what I can get for myself or my constituents. But mainly it’s for themselves, you know, enrich it in whatever way. And we see how Trump is sort of baked that in by employing people’s spouses, you know? So he really has you over a barrel because you and your spouse have to agree. But he’s sort of if if you start going along with president, I see that, you know, you’re getting resources, you’re getting your own personal finances between your family, you know, your calcifying your re-election chances because he just decimates anyone who disagrees with you, because he happens to like you for this particular month and said, well, I would be the fool Republican who doesn’t go along as well. Right. Look, I need that attention. I need that that side money. I mean, you see, he’s throwing stirringly during our contracts to people’s states that are just, you know, people are getting contracts for 80, 90 million dollars. Eight hundred million dollars. One guy in Virginia, you know, where they have zero qualifications and no history of ever providing the service that they’re hired to provide. So, yeah, I see why people are just like, yes, you know, no complaints. I totally agree with him that it’s doping. It’s like everyone else. Like you’d be the idiot to not get on board. Right.

S5: If you were a Republican, it is super interesting that the headquarters of pro doping is the Kremlin and that we saw the, you know, the Sochi Olympics that say it’s a perfect parallel because if if that movie Icarus is right, which is a great movie about Sochi doping, the reason that the Russian teams were sort of persuaded to do this is because they were told the Chinese were doing it. And the reason that, you know, if you lost a single race, they say that’s because your. That’s cause your your competitors are doping. And I think that’s what you mean here, is that like, if you’re a pretty good Senate, you’re a pretty good senator, but you’re about as corruptible as the next guy that you’ve been going along. And then one day someone says, you know, you wonder why Mitch McConnell has all that dough or is that, you know, gets to go to all these meetings? Well, that’s because everybody does this thing. Everybody bowed and scraped before Donald Trump. And that’s how you win.

S4: Yeah. And that’s how you get anything. You know, and we talked about this a long time ago when we were first together. But, you know, my concern was it just Donald Trump, as you know, sort of the head of the executive branch was like, we’ve had bad executives before, but we’ve had, you know, the reason why we had equilateral branch, government, legislative, executive and judicial. Because when one falters, the other two are there to sort of props up and keep democracy moving for you. Now, imperfect democracy as it may be, but democracy nonetheless. And so, by my fears, unfortunately, are becoming materialized because so we have this corrupt, terrible executive in Donald Trump. We now have hyper partisan courts that are just like, well, we work for the president. So what like that is not the intent of the judicial branch at all. And then it’s like, OK, so we’ve never seen the failure of all three branches simultaneously. You know, we’ve sort of seen one falter or maybe one and a half. But now we’ve got the legislative branch or one of the two arms of the legislative branch just like, no, we work for the president. Like we have to talk to the you know, when we’re talking about impeachment or whatever. Conversations we’re having with senators that we have to talk to the president first and then we’ll tell you what we think. That’s not the way the legislative branch is supposed to operate. So for me, my real concern has been and still is the fact that we have a corrupt, inept executive completely abdicating judicial and a sycophantic Senate, you know, one arm of the legislative branch. And, yeah, you know, it’s like the House is just trying to hold it together to essentially make sure that we don’t delve into, you know, cutin territory.

S5: And, you know, if this president blew past a veto, if you talk about the judiciary, I mean, we we have an incredibly bottomless lake, corrupt attorney general that everyone, you know, we still have such a he’s a bit of a cipher to me still at bar, because if the doping thing worked for other kind of eager, greedy senators, corruptible senators, far like, I don’t know, what do you think of him? So here’s my fear.

S4: And I am not a future filled person. But you know, what makes me so disgusted with this administration is every single person who initially came in. They are the worst. I can’t believe this. And then when they act, when they leave or get ousted or go to prison, the person who comes in to replace them is even worse. Jeff Sessions, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, named after two white supremacists. Right.

S5: I just learned that Jefferson Davis thing. I had no idea. Oh, awful.

S4: So we thought that that was like, how low can you go? And what we’re finding is that, like, there is no bottom to this man, this administration and now this party, like they have owned it. But I’m so frustrated with like the media who still reports on him, like he’s a normal president and they’re just like, oh, well, maybe the president meant so. No, he meant what he said. Report back. Don’t try and get in his head. Right. Yeah. I’ve got Democrats who are still a little mealy mouthed about what what is happening because some of them are so tied to Wall Street, they really could care less. And they’re making money. And and so it’s just like there’s this blank, either it’s silence from some or this this kind of refusal to understand the white supremacist nature of this behavior and this like excuse. You know, I always say, like, this country is predicated on four legs of a table. Right? White supremacy, anti black racism, capitalism and patriarchy. And if you don’t understand those four legs of the table, then you clearly don’t understand this nation. It’s like this president represents all four legs of that table. He is the quintessential white supremacy and black racist, patriarchal capitalist.

S6: And I just think that far too many Democrats, good meaning Democrats don’t want to call it like it is.

S4: And so it’s just like, you know, because, you know, we we’re not being honest about the conversation like a lot of Democrats when they actually do think that there’s too much immigration going on, that we don’t really like the fact that are kids have to compete with other non whites to get into college. Right. They actually do have some sort of feelings about a possible female vice presidential candidate. That’s men and women. Right. Cause we know that white women have upheld patriarchy better than anybody else ever could.

S5: Thank you. I’m glad to get some credit for you, don’t you?

S4: Don’t be. You know, you don’t dismantle patriarchy the same way.

S5: You don’t need white people for white supremacy, though. That’s right. We’ve seen it time and time again. Yeah. Patriarchy is not a battle of the sexes. You know, like Bobby Riggs, it’s a whole thoroughgoing system of thought.

S4: Yeah. But I think when people think about patient or can think of like Dolly Parton to work nine five, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It’s it’s much deeper than that. And it’s much more complicated and sometimes is just straight up straightforward. So and so I think when you look at this Donald Trump era from those four lenses, you get to work to get a clear picture. It frustrates me so much that like let’s be clear, there a lot of journalists who just don’t get it. Yeah, there are a lot of Democrats who just don’t get it. And still, like there’s still a lot of journals all the time. It’s like you don’t understand white supremacy. You damn sure don’t understand antiblack racism. You don’t understand patriarchy and how it intersects with gender and race at all. And you don’t understand capitalism and like your own privilege and how, like, inequitable this society is, you know, it’s like Kove, it’s kind of exposing all of that. But like there’s so many people who just I’m thinking with some committees, I’m on the university level, you know, when we’re talking about reopening these topics, questions that a lot of companies are grappling with. But I was like, can we think about our staff? Can we think about the makeup of our staff? I was a you all mean I know this is, you know, talk to him. Like, let’s think about the lunch ladies. Primarily black. Primarily over, you know, fifty five multigenerational households, pre-existing conditions and Barway from campus. If you want them to travel an hour and a half to make some rich, get a turkey sandwich. Risky. What the limit.

S5: I heard Rand Paul talking and he said the reason to open schools is that kids don’t get all that sick kids. Kids at schools don’t get all that sick. There’s an extraordinary blindness around some of these subjects, especially to do with kov. It just, I don’t know.

S4: Willful, willful blindness.

S5: Let me let me try something on you since you’re open to a tangent. So I woke up this morning choosing from the range of usual things to be enraged about, and I decided to be enraged because some of the governors and Trump are now really being faulted for waiting days in early March to do the shutdown and limiting the numbers of lives. Hi. Prostatitis lives that could have been saved is really astonishing. And I, I flashed back to early March and the commitment of all good Americans to saving. For it. Not the poor.

S3: Not the nursing homes. March Madness. The institution of March Madness. The franchise, the lucrative money. And then was right. I know. I barely know what March Madness is. It was like. By then, the Coliseum was shut down. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was shut down.

S5: But like those fat Doritos contracts that come from what? Something founded in the 70s March Madness. I mean, how would you explain that to your to your grandchildren? That we. We forfeited the nursing homes. And you’re right that that was where capitalism got into it. And, you know, the healthiest, some of the healthiest. And the NBA also was protected and tested before we had tests anywhere they could test the NBA.

S4: Don’t know why I was in the next game on March 8th. Yeah. And Kevin Durant was there. And it’s like, oh, now I realize it’s got the ADCO of it. I mean, but here’s the thing. The president didn’t say anything about our health until like mid-March. Everything was, don’t worry, the economy, the economy, the economy. And it’s like, well, guess what? People make up the economy, right?

S5: It’s like that that Oskar Schindler thing when he suddenly got religion on, like maybe it’s not good to kill Jews because they work for your factory. Right.

S4: I mean, look, this is the same way. It’s like, you know, well, maybe you shouldn’t beat your slave to death because that’s five hundred dollars so I can beat you within an inch of death. But like, you know, or like when you would loan out your your enslaved African and someone you know would work them to death. And it’s like, well, you only want your dollars. This is why I explain. Look, American government like interstate commerce, like the complexities of different states. You know, even Missouri like that. It’s just like, you know, when you had freed enslaved Africans, people who ran to the north for some modicum of freedom. It’s like the tension between the states when we think that federalism interfere with the tension between the states was like, OK. So, yeah, fine. If you want to keep, you know, Jim, whatever. JOHNSON Sure. Where’s the money that, like, you owe me a hundred dollars.

S3: Yeah. Like for my oxen.

S4: Yeah. It’s like three fifths compromise. I mean, this is how, you know, we negotiated all of these different measures because I want southerners, you know, obviously dispersant marriage, because they had the numbers of people, even though they were voting and participating similar with prison populations. Right. Now, your question, though, was this kind of idea of March Madness like hyper capitalism?

S5: Yes. That’s connected to, you know, millionaires and billionaires, not to everyday employment, but that is also imagined to be somehow crucial to Trump’s re-election. And I think, as you say, it’s a little bit grounded out because when people start dying, he can initially say, well, they’re retirees, they’re people in nursing homes, probably wouldn’t have voted anyway. Last laughs certainly aren’t worrying about unemployment, but those are his voters. Those are his the Fox viewers.

S4: But he doesn’t respect them. He thinks that they’re suckers. They’re more. Right.

S5: Right. Radio. Well, they’re idiots who may have voted for him. And that that, as I understand from a recent Boca Raton anecdotal survey, that the, you know, far right Jews of Florida are not excited about losing some of their best friends to crown a virus. Yeah, and they’re willing to lay that at Trump’s feet.

S4: And that’s Florida and he needs Florida. But, you know, when you think about all these other folks, you know, these people who are Storm and Presnell people, armed militias have gone to a state house in Michigan. So much so that, like, they shut down the state house. Like, what country is this? You know, if this were a headline in any other nation. Well, what the hell’s going on in, you know, Internee? But I think this is fascinating because you see these people and it’s my right to get my haircut and it’s my right to go to the beach, get my nails done. And, you know, it’s it’s not really about they want to work. They want other people to work for them. Right.

S5: That I got to get my cleaning lady back, my personal assistant for Ivonka Trump.

S4: So that’s one. But I think the way a lot of viruses tend to go. Confetti. You know, it hits old people shore. It is for people for a host of reasons, whether it’s. Education information about what is actually going on. You know, talking to some people, my neighborhood is late March. Is this Corona any real? I’m like, dude, we’ve been on the Pampling to rebuild, you know, like so just like the information sharing and also pre-existing health conditions, obviously. So I think a lot of his supporters in particular states like, well, this isn’t gonna affect me. I’m not old. I’m not a black and Latin X, because all the numbers right now, we’re showing all these disproportionate numbers of people and they don’t really think that that’s like a terrible idea. Right. So prisoners are going to die. And black people are going to die. That’s all. Men. It should have gotten the virus. Now we know it. These is Malcolm X’s happy belated birthday. Malcolm X, like chickens will come home to roost. So all these people who are in these restaurants and on these beaches and refusing to practice social distancing and going to these rallies of hundreds of people just to show the liberals that, you know, this is a made up virus, it’s a sadly, many of them will also find themselves ill or worse. And it’s like and I’m not wishing that on any American, but it’s like this is the only way that they’re going to learn. There’s no way that they’re listening to facts because the president doesn’t believe it best.

S5: I don’t know if the arc of history bends toward justice, but it definitely ends towards survival. And and that’s looks to me like not adaptive behavior. I wanted to ask about white supremacy because I’ve been trying really hard to look at some of the videos of, you know, really spike filled white men and women in places like Michigan, often Arment in Magga hats and see, OK, this is the twist I’m trying to do. I’m trying to see what white people of the 60s and 70s saw in Malcolm X in the Nation of Islam and the Black Power movement. And later in the Rodney King riots, you know that I would call it rebellions. But that’s me, OK? Rodney King rebellion. And you know that the like, because I look at them and things are getting really bad. Christina inside me, like I look at them and I’m feeling this close to. A good case of Corona virus. I want you to survive it, but it’d be nice for you to learn that lesson, right? And I heard I mean, I like some episode of Mad Men where I think of a Betty Draper character was like really good at being afraid of black people, like she had a like and and an anti-war protesters. So I was like, that’s what that’s what that felt like. But then and then I said, so I’m like white supremacy still alive and well. But am I get I’m getting that thing. We’re like there’s a certain look of a certain guy. If you look like Brett Kavanaugh, I’m going across the street to avoid. Yeah. So white supremacy and a part of that thing of how did you know whites in the 60s and 70s look at certain kinds of militant upright rebellions, you know, uprisings did. And how we look at the Michigan state capital takeover now, OK? Because the tide has turned. Like, you know, the president’s in power and yet his people are acting like, you know, scrappy people at Fort Sumter because the president is always a victim.

S4: He’s the human on the victim of his own story. It’s like if one, sir. Which one do you want to be?

S5: But you are so good at this thing. You’re so good at something which is like getting the eyes of another group of people. So because I’m black and I live in America.

S4: So you’re always trying to imagine I have to other people’s pixels. It’s a match. In America, we just want James Baldwin’s it. Black people in America know white people better than they know themselves.

S5: I always love hearing just black people talk about like Joan Lunden is. But you don’t like it’s sort of obscure white people that like to see it. Your analysis of it so good.

S4: We like we have to if we don’t know white people, we don’t get to live.

S5: Okay. So I have a test for you. You’re a white Republican are not going to make you Trump. And you see Obama give that commencement speech the other night, as Karl Rove called it, a political drive by. OK, your Karl Rove. You watch him. He says the most. Mr. Rogers. Stuff you can imagine. Like, he’s just like the sweetest, most normal guy on the planet. Like, so inoffensive. You can’t believe it.

S4: And B.S., he had to be eaten alive. But.

S3: Right. Tell me, you look at that guy. How do you look at that guy and say, you know what I say, Lucifer? I see Obama gate. I see a guy with a guy with a gun. When, like, I just don’t understand it.

S4: Like the two tough Irish anyway, that it’s ingrained in the society, those so pleasant tourists. It doesn’t matter. This man was borderline perfect for eight years. And it’s like if you have to be perfect, then you’re not equal, clearly. Right. But like, if Obama did one were millions of what Trump has done. First of all, Obama wouldn’t get elected, was on his third wife and like mislaid his children in twenty five accusations of rape life. That’s just not happening. So. And third wife who has questionable citizenship. Hold on. I mean, like you, we can go down the list before he even gets sixteen hundred Pennsylvania. But I think so many white people, like they haven’t had honest conversations about themselves, like when they see black people, like they just go to a place. Whatever that place is, whether it’s a place of fear because they think that they’re going to be physically attacked. First all, it is wholly irrational for white people to be afraid of white people. It is completely rational for black people to be deathly afraid when people we actually have longer receives what white people are capable of. We don’t have those receipts. You will have like specific instances like, oh, you know, a mugging. Oh, you know, a shooting. But like, the vast majority went blind to the Cuban people. So, like, settle down. You will actually have no reason to be afraid of black people. We actually have like some lynchings. Well, you got some miscellaneous killings by the state. People in uniform doing this sanctioned by the state and having no repercussions. So, like fine black people, we’ve got one racism way. But I think what it really boils down to is like is this fight. And it’s Betty Draper. Fear of the unknown and losing what you believe is your country. I mean, this is why Archie Bunker was such Norman Lear, first of all. Number one, if you’re listening, you are my boyfriend and I love you so much. But the reason why Norman Lear shows are so important and so powerful and they still hold up is because you think that someone like Archie Bunker, Archie Bunker’s incensed that The Jeffersons move into his neighborhood and he can’t believe it. Like because that means these Negroes are on the same level as me. And then the genius of the spin off of The Jeffersons is that he’s perplexed and like apoplectic because they move out of Queens to Manhattan.

S3: This week, they didn’t have anymore that dry cleaning franchise. Yeah. I don’t remember what Archie Bunker does for a living. But George Jefferson had a franchise, had it like and could move out. And that wasn’t the American dream for him. You know, the next Archie Bunker, that was a stepping stone and it wasn’t.

S4: Archie is right. He didn’t feel like, you know, he should have to live next to black people. The reason why Archie Bunker was such a genius character and I was afraid of him, deathly afraid of from when I was a child, it wasn’t until I started watching that show. I was I was a full adult. Yeah. Is because Archie Bunker felt like his country was leaving him behind. Everything was leaving him behind, like the Cockneys, leaving him behind these black people. He doesn’t he knows that they’re not totally evil, but like they’re like everyone’s just like moving on and he’s stuck. And like, you see these men, they’re doing like cosplay with their guns. They’d never have the courage to sign up for the military ones who did sign up for the military. Some of them not all, but some of them signed up because they just want to, like, kill brown people in the desert. And then they come back and they’re cops and like they’ve got a little taste for blood. But we’re seeing these connections and they’re scary as hell. So when I say the blood people, we study white. We have to, like all of them, are actually hunting for black people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now brown people.

S3: I know you are firmly for Stacey Abrams as Biden’s running mate. Oh. Is it obvious? Yeah. And I, I, I don’t want I shouldn’t tip my hand this early, but I’m with you. I’m with you for a bunch of reasons, including your reasons.

S5: You persuaded me. Oh, you read my Daily Beast piece that which is so great. Which by the way, you know pretty much every hour everyone but lots of people are saying I would take any of that short list. Like, these are fantastic people. But I loved that you came out and said she’s the only vice president to back Stacey Abrams for Joe Biden.

S4: I just wrote a piece that gave me a degree in the Grio this afternoon because this guy in The Washington Post, Marc Thiessen, this fool, wrote a piece. What, two days ago saying that Stacey Abrams was less qualified than Sarah Palin. And I was like, I don’t know what kind of dog whistle, racist, sexist mountains that you’re writing about. He literally said you have your qualifications at fine. She’s not a sitting governor. Was Brian Kemp, secretary of state, stole that? I love the race. I was like, how dare you even make that insulting comparison? And I literally said, the only thing that those two have in common is that their names both start with the letter S.. That’s it. Yeah. I mean, Sarah Palin got one hundred fifteen thousand votes and I’m just like, we are going to Tim Kaine ourselves if we go the club Bishar route or whatever it may be, because it I think, as you said, that whole list, all those women we know women are quick studies like we know we’re in nontraditional times, like a lot of those women can get that experience. I mean, what Obama had a ton of experience with before he became president. Right. Bill Clinton coming from Arkansas. No far policy experience of George Bush. You’ve been to Mexico when a drunk spring break trip. And that was the only time his rich self ever bothered to leave the country. Are you kidding me?

S3: So let’s not mention state. Stacey Abrams has never conceded that election is one of my favorite things she’s ever done.

S4: And since then, she’s fabulous. I don’t have to go along with you.

S3: Right. And which is which is which really defies Democrats from Bush versus Gore, you know, to Clinton versus Trump for that. Always give in and say, oh, we’ve got to do this the right way. And Stacey Abrams saying, I won the office, but I won.

S4: But and but here’s the thing. And this is where, you know, quote unquote, good Democrats show their hand and say, how dare this black woman not go along to get along? Because into Gillham, unbelievable that night or the next day, he was like, I can see. Yeah. And in his margin was even thinner. All right.

S3: Have we ever seen someone not concede? Like, it’s just not that. Yeah.

S4: And even though it was an option one, she’s like, well, guess what? Everything’s an option when you steal one. When we have two thousand people who call the hotline who were just like, hey, listen, these are white people we love. I’ve always voted when you’ve got Republicans in Georgia from the primary who, like this dude, stole it from our Republican candidate like this is wild. Yeah. So, yeah, I just think that, you know, I want to get someone on the ticket on the Biden Abram’s ticket.

S5: Who doesn’t. Who. Who a really wants the job. Which I always like. I hate that old pose of like I didn’t seek this out.

S4: Yes, I’m damn sure. Did it go. And if this were man and woman would be fine.

S3: Nothing in her directness that I that I that I love about that. And also this election, I don’t know if you saw Franklin Forest peace in the Atlantic, but Putin’s close to trying to steal this one again or are close to stealing it again.

S4: You can you can do it pretty easily when we all have enough confusion about absentee ballots. Well, you know, you’ve got Trump trying to defund the USPS, the U.S. Postal Service. That’s deliberate and specific. You know, you’ve got New York State, which is like number thirty eight when it comes to voting equity, you know, oh, we don’t have envelopes. I was like, what are these strawberries? All of a sudden? They’re on the block out of season. Get some damn envelopes. Right. You know, we know that some states are going to try in in, you know, pull a fast one. It’s like, oh, it’s just a 50 cent stamp. Well, some people are going to be able to go to a post office and get a stamp or don’t know how to shoot 50 cents for some people actually mean something. Right. And then others, you know, you think about Common Cause in New York, Susan Lerner runs Common Cause. And you’re you know, it’s a national organization. You know, if we have an inaccurate voter file, then certain people just won’t get an absentee ballot. And by the time there’s some people who are living paycheck to paycheck. Moment to moment. They realize like, wait a minute, I don’t get my absentee ballot, then it’s going to be too late. You know that the goalpost is going to move for when you know when it came in. You know, I’m sure that they’ll let certain absentee ballots come in a few days after November 3rd. Would like that a minute cut off, is it? If it’s in the building, but in the bag. Do you have to have touched it as an official to make it count? We know that certain zip codes, because we have racial and age and demographic information, that certain zip codes, just like we saw in Georgia and Florida, particular zip codes, just don’t get stuff right. We’re going to find a lot of missing filled out ballots for a particular post offices that miraculously get found. Well, after the elections call, I mean, like we we should be very concerned.

S5: That actually adds, as Robert Mueller once, that’s something that should concern all Americans is these and force peace. I mean, man, that is something I’ve never I haven’t shuttered this long in a while. He thinks that Putin’s eye is on the machines more than ever. And, you know, that is more than disinformation, although disinformation dovetails with this ad, Stacey Abrams knows, which is not only does it give it a boost, but what you can do is stage some glitch in a machine and then and then use that photograph to call the results as a result of voter fraud instead of voter suppression, and then get Trump in a place where he won’t concede. OK. So, Stacey Abrams, good part of the ticket, a good part of the campaign, because she is hyper aware is the two stage process is the campaigning and the governance.

S4: Right. Because one question people in Detroit don’t like, presumably. So it’s like, how are you going to play? Well, we don’t know who you are. Yeah. And we know that, like you think any road that leads to the White House, you can paint it with black folks.

S3: I think the way you think that he might not choose a black woman. I mean, I absolutely do. Oh, God.

S4: You know. You know, the Democratic Party is. And I think that it’s going to be you know, it’s like because black folks are captive because of our ideological diversity. For the ninety three percent black people who vote for their Democratic Party nominee during presidential election year. You know, all of our ideological diversity is tracked into one party. So, yes, we don’t have options, but one option is to stay home. I think a lot of white people are more concerned about, you know, getting Trump out of office because we’ve seen how devastating is there are. There are quite a few people he doesn’t need. You don’t need a majority black. He needs to pick off a few black men, military men, police officers.

S5: So, Rachel, better coughers on this show. You know, she’s like this up and coming pollster who’s been called 2018 really well. And it’s I like her because her story is like she’s a single mom who is like an oracle of elections. And it didn’t have any money. And then just thought, you know, I got to get it if I’m going to compete with Nate Silver. I got to get a page. So she just kind of scammed along through a APHC and now she’s, like, making the big predictions. I love her story.

S4: I like that because Nate Silver, I think because of his. Blindspots on race and class can’t call out.

S5: Exactly. So here’s where I mean, Rachel’s not black, but she’s, you know, from and has been from an underclass for a long time now. She says something and you can disagree with this because I don’t know my political science. So when I hear those maxims that are like, you know, as Green County in Wisconsin, as we know from McGeorge Bundy, you know, so goes the world. Yeah, yeah. It’s all about Dixville Notch. You got to fly in there. But so this could be one of those bullshit things. But it’s Hurk claim is that black people care less about policy on the ticket and more about representation.

S4: I don’t fully agree with that. OK? Because if you remember, you know, black women were with Hillary Clinton for a long time. Mm hmm. It wasn’t until, like Obama showed that he actually could win in, like, you know, Bill Clinton said, some real racist nonsense. So I think it’s it’s both. And I think there’s some certain age differentials that could factor that in. It’s also like, do we know this person? Right. And so my concern about Comilla, who is brilliant, and I think she’d be a fantastic V.P. slash president. But like my concern is, you know, she wasn’t really connecting with black people when she was campaigning. So it’s like, you know, don’t just get any old black person on the ticket. You need to get a black person the black people actually identify. Yeah. Yeah. And so when you kind of look at, like, the cross section, Keli doesn’t really have a ton of black people. Like, that’s not Carmella’s base. Right.

S3: So is Stacey Abrams that person?

S4: I think she’s like. Because the thing is, look, listen, her family looks like a lot of black families. Mixed class family, right? Yes. She’s Suzi Abrams. Yes. Her sister’s a judge. Yes. You know, another sister, something fancy. And then, yes, you had a brother who’s in and out of the castle state. Yeah, that’s that’s what a lot of families look like.

S3: And she went to an HBC you. Right.

S4: And she went to Spelman and Yale and then Yale Law School, where Linnea loves you. And then I wrote the romance novels to help pay for that. But it’s I guess I have. Look, I made money.

S3: Her academic record. Her. Yeah.

S4: I would like to write more books to me. I’m an academic, but let a lot of folks it’s like. Yeah. But I still have to support my parents.

S3: Oh, right. She has that student debt. I mean, to me to me, she’s extremely relatable. And also, you know, she has that crossover Oprah thing that, you know, everyone just wants her to, like, come take care of your life, you know?

S6: Well, I mean, I think that that is that’s very deeply rooted in sort of reason and weight to natural hair and gap and teeth and complexion. Like there are some very specific things. Right. That she’s well aware of how. Like white women sort of view her. But I think the thing that concerns me is as far as like Biden’s calculus in his decision making, that, you know, I know that he really likes a called the shark. Like that is zero.

S4: That is the Tim Kaine of 20/20. And it’s big, I think. Absolutely. Just a useless pick, you know. I’m sure she’s a lovely person, but like, we need to win this thing. But, you know, there’s never been a time in American history where, like white where black women have gotten something before white women. And I don’t know how that’s going to play because I guess Geraldine Ferraro was the V.P. nom in 1984 and she was on the ticket to choose a black woman in a moment where it’s like the economy’s so crazy, like Biden could win, this woman actually could not just be vice president, but because Butson seven would be 78 when he’s sworn in, this woman actually could be the president. This is what you know, I fight with Dino Turay. Yes, of course. Yeah. And so Trey and Danielle Moody, have a great podcast, Democracy. And like, you know, basically, it’s like three siblings fighting on my right. Danielle and I just team up against direct constantly. And he’s like, God, don’t scare me. And I. I don’t know. I think you just believe what he’s saying. You know, he says it and plug it away just to get under our skin. But, you know, he’s like the vice president has never mattered. And Danielle and I are like literally ringing the fire alarm. It’s like, well, we’ve never been in a time like this where it’s like the ticket matters. And the fact that the candidate at the top of the ticket is seventy seven people will be looking at the vice president is like, can this person step in January 21st, 20? Or or not. Right.

S3: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Also, Stacey Abrams brings Georgia.

S4: I mean, is she why she thinks she can bring parts of the South and like have never been there. And I thought about, you know, and it’s like and that’s the problem with Democrats just keep conceding major constituencies like, you know, she got more Asian-American Pacific Islanders, more Latin text folks, more LGBTQ folks, more young folks to turn out in Georgia. It’s like you don’t think that she can’t figure out a way to do that. Let’s hurry up. Well, like, you know, because we have to do it in a weird digital space. But, like, she knows how to do grassroots organizing. You know, in the South. And so the problem is the Democrats, with all their, you know, kind of north eastern white male, quote unquote, liberals are just obsessed with these damn white men that left after Carter and are still just like hunting them down, like the Loch Ness Monster. And it’s a dance with the person who brought you to the party. Or guess what? These boys don’t want you. So why don’t you find somebody new? Why don’t you talk to all these let next folks who are citizens. Many of them are not registered to vote or if they are registered. No one is talked to them about the two stage process of democracy, which is now there’s registration. And now we actually need you to turn out low or Asian Americans who everyone just pretends doesn’t exist. We can actually do a lot.

S5: I’m still brooding over your point that that white women don’t want that black woman getting something first is a challenge. There’s this thing I read about called Texas woman exception. That applies also sometimes to some black women where like black women and Texas women like Ann Richards get to say stuff and do stuff that white women don’t let themselves do because they’re operating in a narrow band, because they there’s so much narcissism of small differences among white women that like, you know, my friends in my friends in New York didn’t like Hillary Clinton because her kids, Chelsea, got the wrong apartment and was, you know, and she was too much of a striver if you were like a whole New England prep boarding school girl. She’s kind of poly cotton. Right. So, like these strange little things, but. And they felt that way about Martha Stewart. But like Oprah gets to rocket above Martha Stewart and wealth because somehow she’s less like, oh, that’s just like you know, she’s just like my sister, you know, Hillary Clinton. Or she’s like that girl down the street who I hated. Tracy Flick. You know, when you have a black I feel like a black woman. It’s possible it’s possible that a black woman might appeal more to white voters than if they got like an Amy Klobuchar.

S4: If you got Amy Klobuchar, you know, I think to a certain type of white woman. But I do think that there’s like wild diversity within white.

S5: I mean, is there. Are there any white women who don’t watch Oprah? Like, I just, you know, who don’t do Super Bowl Sunday.

S4: Well, I mean, keep in mind, though, back in the day it was black women watch Oprah and white women had no idea. And then all of a sudden became about pashmina, pajamas. And like, yes, she does like people do worship at the altar of Oprah, whereas, like, black women are. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that there could be something, but. And I think it’s very interesting because, you know, when you listen to Stacy, it’s not about like feel good politics. It’s a pragmatic look. I mean, she reminds me a lot of Obama in the sense where it’s like she’s really good at campaigning, but like she’s. And she she said it. She said it on stump. She’s said, I’m a nerd. I would much rather be in my room reading policy, writing about policy. What I recognize in order for me to get to do that, I have to come out here and like an ad campaign and she’s like, and I’m fine with that. But she said, I’d like to solve problems. I want to make sure poor people don’t stay poor forever. I want to make sure that things are equal. So that means I have to, like, put down my laptop and put down my gloves and come out and, like, travel around the country.

S3: Christina Greer is a political scientist who teaches at Fordham. Thank you so much for being here, Christina.

S4: Thank you, Virginia. It was wonderful being here.

S7: That’s it for today’s show. What do you think? We really rely on your support. And we want to talk to you. I’m at page 88 on Twitter. The show is Aquille Trump Cast Our show today was produced by Melissa Kaplin and engineered by one Richard status slot. I’m Virginia Heffernan. Thank you for listening to Trump cast.