A Killing in Cop City
Jason, Jason Johnson: This is a word, a podcast from Slate. I’m your host, Jason Johnson, Georgia’s governor called the National Guard to Atlanta this weekend, bracing for protests over the killing of Tyree Nichols and overcapacity. The proposed police training facility being built outside Atlanta has sparked demonstrations for months. And one protester was recently killed by state troopers. So what is Cop City and why do so many residents see it as a threat?
Gerald Griggs: You should respond to police brutality with the threat of more police brutality.
Jason, Jason Johnson: Atlanta’s Cop City. Coming up on a word with me, Jason Johnson. Stay with us. Welcome to A Word, a podcast about race and politics and everything else. I’m your host, Jason Johnson. Over the weekend, many cities were braced for disruptive protests over the beating death of Tyree Nichols by Memphis police. We should note that protests did happen, but they were overwhelmingly peaceful as usual. Yet in Georgia, Governor Brian Kemp put the National Guard on notice and declared a state of emergency because of Nichols.
Jason, Jason Johnson: But also another issue, demonstrations focused on the Atlanta Public Safety Training Center, better known as Cop City. Cop City is a proposed training facility set to be built on several acres of forest land just outside Atlanta City limits. Community resistance to the effort turned deadly in mid-January with the death of Emmanuel Teran, a member of the Forest Defenders, a group of demonstrators who had occupied the site. Officers said that Teran was killed after he allegedly shot at a Georgia state trooper. Witnesses disagree with that assessment. Protests in the following days led to property destruction and more arrests in Atlanta. So why is Cop City so controversial? And where does the project and the resistance to it go from here? Joining us to talk about it is Gerald Griggs. He’s the state president of the Georgia NAACP. Joe Griggs, welcome to a word.
Gerald Griggs: Thank you for having me, Jason.
Jason, Jason Johnson: So what was the level and nature of the protests in Atlanta since the killing of Cop City? And how has the Tyree Nichols case now affected the Atlanta protests?
Gerald Griggs: Well, there was one protest that turned a little violent. Pre the Tyree Nichols release of the video. But since then, it’s been peaceful, has been large, it’s been vocal, and there’s been no need for the militarization of law enforcement or the National Guard. The Cop City protests that went through downtown did damage some property. But the Tyree Nichols protest, where a large majority of Atlanta’s came outside, was peaceful and non-violent.
Jason, Jason Johnson: So for listeners who are unfamiliar with Cop City, can you just give us a little background? Like first off, what is Cop City? And then how did that protests start against Cop City?
Gerald Griggs: Cop City is the building of the Public Safety Training Center in a portion of Atlanta. That’s in DeKalb County. And so it’s going to be a 89 acre facility where police and fire departments are going to train. And so what happened was, you know, after Rayshard Brooks and George Floyd in 2020, when people were calling for police accountability, the city of Atlanta decided to give more training and more facilities. So they passed city ordinance that would create a police training center.
Gerald Griggs: And so about a year ago, organizers, some of which were from Atlanta, some were from other places, decided to protest. And they’ve been protesting for over a year. They’ve camped out at the construction site. They’ve done all sorts of interesting protests. Some of it has been slightly violent with throwing a feces and firebombs and stuff like that. And so it culminated two weeks ago with a march through Atlanta after an activist was killed during a raid to clean out the protesters from the Public Safety Training Center, also known as Cop City. He was shot. There was no body cam footage of it.
Gerald Griggs: Of course, the activists and many other people that are around that particular protest were upset. They marched through downtown. They destroyed some pieces of property, three plate glass windows, an ATM, and set a police car on fire. And that’s what led to the escalation by the governor and other elected officials with the calling of the National Guard.
Jason, Jason Johnson: What is the actual training that is going to occur at Cop City? What kind of training are going to get there? Who’s actually being trained there? And how does that also play into the protests and the frustration that the citizens are showing right now?
Gerald Griggs: Well, the argument from the city is that they need a state of the art training facility where they can do all kinds of tactical training. They can do police car chase training. They can do fire prevention training. So they wanted a state of the art facility so they didn’t have to drive down to middle Georgia, to the public safety training center down there. That’s for the entire state. But the type of training that they they’ve told us and they told the public would be 21st century policing, training, de-escalation training and the like.
Gerald Griggs: Our concern as the NAACP and the concern of several other activists is that we don’t really know. We know what they are telling us the training will be, but we don’t really know. And our concern is a city this size. We don’t need a training facility that will be three times the size of the Los Angeles training facility or the New York training facility for New York police and Los Angeles police. We Atlanta. We’re nowhere near the size of those communities, but we’re going to have a training facility that’s 89 acres. And so that’s what cause a lot of the activists to be upset. Of course, that particular group of activists, most of which came from out of town, were occupying the land and thus calling for change by putting their bodies in harm’s way.
Jason, Jason Johnson: There’s now a state of emergency for the city of Lynn. How does that affect the rights of protesters and other residents? Is there a curfew? Is it certain people have to be off the streets? What’s the case now?
Gerald Griggs: Well, there’s no curfew, but there’s definitely a level of concern when you have armored tanks, you know, in the streets. You have military vehicles that are parked near, you know, potential areas where there might be protests. It does limit your First Amendment rights. And so considering there’s been no violence since the actual protests, that was two weeks ago before the state of emergency, and there’s been nothing since then. It’s unnecessary.
Gerald Griggs: And so, you know, from a First Amendment standpoint, it definitely has a chilling effect on people using their First Amendment rights to bring their grievances directly to their elected officials and their government. And ultimately, the reason why people were protesting was police brutality and the building of the facility. You shouldn’t respond to police brutality with the threat of more police brutality. So I think it goes counterintuitive to the spirit of this city and the spirit of what it stands for. And I think the governor and others involved need to tone it back. Again, there hasn’t been a curfew yet, But, you know, if something was to happen, we potentially could have Selma in Atlanta. And we don’t need that.
Jason, Jason Johnson: We’re going to take a short break. When we come back, more on the debate over Atlanta’s so-called cops city. This is a word with Jason Johnson. Stay tuned.
Jason, Jason Johnson: This is Jason Johnson, host of A Word, Slate’s podcast about race and politics and everything else. I want to take a moment to welcome our new listeners. If you’ve discovered a word and like what you hear, please subscribe, rate and review. Wherever you listen to podcast. And let us know what you think by writing us at a word at Slate.com. Thank you.
Jason, Jason Johnson: You’re listening to a word with Jason Johnson today. We’re talking about the fight over Cops City with Gerald Griggs of Georgia’s ACP. Let’s talk about the protests at the Cop City site. My understanding is that demonstrators with a group called the Forest Defenders have been occupying the area for months. And in mid-January, force defender Manuel Teran was shot to death by a Georgia state trooper. What have the police had to say about the incident and what do we know from the protesters on the ground?
Gerald Griggs: We know that there was a tactical unit that went out to clear out the Forest Defenders. They were made up of Atlanta police, the Department of Natural Resources and the Georgia State Patrol. The Georgia State Patrol made contact with Mr. Teran. There was an allegation of a brandishing of a weapon. The shooting occurred from allegedly from Mr. Teran based on what the Georgia State Patrol is saying. They returned fire. He was killed. The trooper was shot. That’s what law enforcement say. What the activists are saying is they were peacefully encamped in the forests, defending the forests. Militarized police units came in, tried to clear it. They are alleging that Mr. Teran did not have a weapon and he was shot.
Gerald Griggs: So as the public, we don’t know because the Georgia State Patrol was not equipped with body cams. I did get a chance to speak with the police chief. The police chief indicated that there was no Atlanta police officers which were involved in the shooting. It was completely the Georgia State patrol. And so we really don’t know because there there’s not body cam, there are dash cams, but the dash cams are in the cars, which were a good several feet away from the shooting. So you don’t get a clear picture of what happened. But there are two differing sights on what happened. There’s currently an investigation and we have to see what a thorough investigation, an independent investigation and a determination of what actually happened, because, you know, Mr. Teran lost his life. The officer got injured. Public wants to know what actually happened and why it happened.
Jason, Jason Johnson: What do you know about the Forest Defenders? Did they have connections to traditional civil rights groups in Georgia or metro Atlanta? Did they reach out to other organizations and say, hey, we’re joining you? What do you guys know about the Forest Defenders?
Gerald Griggs: We don’t know much about them. We do know that they are from out of state and that they typically take on environmental issues, climate change issues. And, you know, they like to protest. So the short answer is no, they didn’t reach out to legacy organizations. They did reach out to the community and they had some interaction with the community. But mainly they’ve just been focused on the Public Safety Training Center, which they call Cop City. And we’ve been focused on ending police brutality and police accountability. Now, of course, our position at the NAACP is we are against the Public Safety Training Center because the community wanted police accountability, not training. Training would not have brought Mr. Nichols back or George Floyd back or anybody else back. What would have brought, you know, justice in those situations was accountability.
Jason, Jason Johnson: I don’t know if this is a result of the state of emergency. If this is just how Georgia state law works. But, you know, some of the protesters who were arrested in the raid that killed Manuel Teran have been charged with domestic terrorism one. Do you know how that’s even possible, how protesters can be charged with domestic terrorism? And two, does the NAACP have a role in sort of fighting on behalf maybe, you know, filing amicus curiae briefs on behalf of people who are exercising their constitutional rights and are being treated like terrorists in Georgia?
Gerald Griggs: You do have an absolute right to protest both under the United States Constitution and the Georgia Constitution. The issue that we’re running into with the forest defenders is whether or not they were going above and beyond the right to protest. Now, the police are making allegations that they were throwing firebombs and they were smearing feces and throwing feces at people and threatening people and doing all kinds of other things. We don’t know the truth of that. But what we do know is we do support peaceful protest and we do support people exercising their First Amendment rights. And so as the investigation continues and more information comes out, the NAACP may take a position. Right now, our position is we want a full and thorough investigation. And if it turns out that people’s First Amendment rights were violated, we will take a strong stance in defense of people’s civil rights. But currently a from the state ACP, we want a thorough investigation. We are concerned with a lot of the allegations that are being made about violations of people’s civil rights. But we need more information.
Jason, Jason Johnson: We’re going to take a short break and we come back more about Atlanta’s Cup City controversy with Gerald Griggs of Georgia’s ACP. This is a word with Jason Johnson. Stay tuned. You’re listening to a word with Jason Johnson today. We’re talking about Atlanta’s Cops City with Georgia NAACP leader Gerald Griggs Gerald. Little context here right now in the city of Memphis. The police chief, Sherrilyn Davis, is dealing with the aftermath of the brutal murder of Tyree Nichols. But as the spotlight has been focusing on her, what many people become aware of is that she was also part of police management in the city of Atlanta, where her tenure was wracked by other issues of police brutality and violence. What was your experience like with Cheryl Davis’s management of police when she was in Atlanta, if you did get the opportunity to work with her? And how was that any different than the police officers and the police chief that are managing the city now?
Gerald Griggs: So she was the deputy chief in charge of the specialized unit, Red Dog. I have a lot of experience with Red Dog as I’m born and raised in Atlanta. I know that they were a crime suppression unit that was known for their brutality. They were disbanded after several failed raids, one of which was the Katherine Johnson raid and the other was the American Eagle raid. So I’ve had experience with them, with Chief Davis, not directly. You know, I’ve worked with all of the police chiefs since I became an attorney, but not this particular chief deputy chief when she was here as a chief now in Memphis.
Gerald Griggs: But I do understand there were some concerns, grave concerns against Red Dog, which caused it to be disbanded. And the Scorpion unit was anything like Red Dog. This was not the first time that they’d done something like that because Red Dog was known as the jump out Boys. And when a jump out boys jumped out on you, you knew it was going to be bad. So my concern is, you know, she may have done some of the right things here, but if the Scorpion unit was like Red Dog, this is not the first time that this has happened. It’s just the first time that it’s risen to this level.
Jason, Jason Johnson: If we follow the money on Cops City, what would we find out? Where is the money trail that’s pushing for the creation of Cops City? And how does that also corrupt the process and ignore the fact that the public at large seems to not want it?
Gerald Griggs: Yeah. So 70% of the public in Atlanta was against the building of the Public Safety Training Center, also known as Cops City. And so when you follow the money, you have to look at major corporations who are more concerned about protecting property than actually addressing the underlying issue of actual public safety. So I think if you follow the money, you will see major corporate donors. You see large amounts of donations for private individuals who have other motives in that.
Gerald Griggs: And so I think that, you know, that’s a great question that people need to take a look into, because, again, 7% of the citizens of Atlanta were against it when they opened public comment on this. They basically had to shut public comment down because public comment was against it. And again, all of the legacy organized organizations, civil rights organizations were against it. The building of Cop City. And so I think if you follow the money, you see special interest groups who had the the ear, the city council and ultimately the administration. Again, this came in under the previous administration, but is being followed through by this administration. And my hope is, you know, if they don’t, you know, stop the building of cops city through peaceful, non-violent means, then it’s going to be a real consideration of the people, what they want to do next.
Jason, Jason Johnson: Just for clarity sake, Cop City is a mock city. It is being built to provide training for Georgia police. Also potentially police from other states and other countries.
Jason, Jason Johnson: Is Cop City actually going to be located in Atlanta? And what is the significance of the area it’s being built in? There are environmental concerns, correct? That’s one of the reasons that brought out the forest offenders.
Gerald Griggs: Yes, There’s their environmental concerns. It’s being built in one of the biggest forests in Atlanta. And so many of the people that are protesting are concerned about the environmental impact on the South River. Also, people are concerned by not just the construction of the actual city, but the firing range, which will be on there. The obstacle course, which will be their administration is saying that they have a citizens review group six from the CAB, six from Atlanta who are voting on potential changes. And they’re making changes, but they’re not listening to the greater constituency. Again, 70% of people said they didn’t want it built. It’s being built in a portion of Atlanta that’s not technically in Atlanta. It’s actually in DeKalb County outside of the jurisdiction of Atlanta. So if something happens over there, DeKalb would be responsible for it.
Gerald Griggs: And so there was an announcement between the DeKalb CEO and the mayor to talk about that relationship with the cab and to talk about some of the environmental protections that they’re trying to build in, like a buffer to the to the South River and things that will keep less trees from being torn down. They’re saying if they turn out of hardwood, they’re going to put three more hardwoods there and they’re only building on places that have already been cleared out. But they’re still big environmental concerns and also the concerns about the actual building of a cop city.
Gerald Griggs: So there will be a mock city. The city will have different areas where they can do the training on virtual shooting simulations, fire department responses to fires. It’s going to be an actual city with a driving course and all kinds of training apparatus. And then they’ll also be like an auditorium in some type of community spaces there as well. But those are coming after the fact, after the community has given input that they didn’t want a police training center squarely in the middle of the forest with all kinds of things that were not asked for when they were asking for police accountability.
Jason, Jason Johnson: Georgia, in particular in Atlanta, is sort of defined by black political power, black mayors, black members of Congress, black city council people. You know, how has this Cop City controversy affected the public perception of leadership? Because, look, the previous mayor, the stardom of the previous mayor, Keisha Lance Bottoms, I mean, she she called the National Guard on Black Lives Matter protesters and tried to blame it on Brian Kemp. Like I said, in what I understand, how she may be perceived in this instance. But you got a brand new mayor now who was born of these protests. You know, are people looking at him sideways now? Are people angry at city council? Are they disappointed in Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock? How does this change what the public? Perception is of what used to be a reputation for representative black leadership.
Gerald Griggs: Well, I think the public is concerned about what the previous administration did. Certain segments of the public are angry at the current mayor. I think the fault lies with the previous administration pushing this through and the city council ratifying it. And so when we talk about this in a grand scheme, this is a local issue.
Gerald Griggs: Now, our senators can weigh in, but they don’t really have the power to do anything other than, you know, voice opposition. And they haven’t really weighed into this issue. And I don’t expect them to. But the main issue is the previous administration. Decided that they were going to take a stance to be pro-police. And this is what the results of it are.
Gerald Griggs: You know, I watched that press conference. I was there during the protests when the National Guard was called on peaceful protesters in Atlanta by the former mayor. And so it’s disingenuous to me for her to not own this. And so the issue that the community is having right now is we want a voice. We want to make sure that our community is safe and policed effectively, but in a community oriented fashion. So that’s why they’re not asking for more training. They’re asking for more accountability.
Gerald Griggs: And so I will take my hat off to this current mayor, Andre Dickens. He has met with the families who have been affected by police brutality, something that the last mayor only did once and the previous mayor before didn’t do at all. But we still have a long way to go to get to the root issue. And I think it’s going to take a partnership between the federal government, the state government and local government to solve this. But Cop City was not the answer.
Jason, Jason Johnson: I was like the in the show on, you know, if not a positive note, at least a way that people can get engaged. If people are unhappy about Cop City and they’re in Georgia or nationally, you know, they want to be an ally in those sort of protests. What are things that people can do who want to oppose Cop City? What can they do in the state? What can they do outside of the state? What can they do to draw attention to what is not only a problem in Georgia, but the sort of militarization and, frankly, misappropriation of funds to police all over the country as an issue?
Gerald Griggs: Well, we got to have a conversation with our elected officials in Congress. They seem to think that more policing is what people are calling for. When we had the biggest protest in the history of the country for police accountability. So, first and foremost, get in touch with your senators, Get in touch with your congresspeople, specifically with the police training center. We got to get in touch with city council. They are the ones who who signed off on this. The current mayor is following through with that. Get in touch with him. Voice your displeasure peacefully and non-violent, but voice your displeasure and then get involved. You know, there are going to be protests there going to be peaceful protests. There are going to be opportunities for you to elevate your voice.
Gerald Griggs: And then ultimately, if we really want to see change, we got to start running for office. We got to replace two people who aren’t listening to the people. And so all those things are options. I think the most clear option is to get in touch with Congress and to tell them to pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act now so we don’t have any more. Tyree Nickels So we don’t have any more Rayshard Brooks or Jimmy Atchison or Oscar Kane or Kane Rogers. And if you don’t know those names, those are the names from Atlanta. And then we don’t have any more George Floyd and Breonna Taylor’s.
Gerald Griggs: So I think that, you know, we’re in a pivotal moment in our history, and we have to accept the mantle of our ancestors. You know, our ancestors have gone on to rest. It’s time for this generation to stand up and be the freedom fighters that we’re looking for. And I think we’re ready to do that. So my hat’s off to all of the activists and have remained peaceful and nonviolent, but have been resolute that we will stand up against oppression and we will make sure that we don’t pass on what we are experiencing to the next generation.
Jason, Jason Johnson: Gerald Griggs As an attorney and the state president of the Georgia NAACP, thank you so much for joining us today on a word.
Gerald Griggs: Thank you for having me, brother.
Jason, Jason Johnson: And that’s a word for this week. The show’s email is a word at Slate.com.
Jason, Jason Johnson: This episode was produced by Kristie Taiwo Makanjuola. Ben Richmond is Slate’s senior director of operations for podcasts. Alicia montgomery is the vice president of Audio. Our theme music was produced by Don Will. I’m Jason Johnson. Tune in next week for work.
