Make Believe Murder Edition

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S1: This ad free podcast is part of your Slate plus membership, the following podcast contains explicit language.

S2: Welcome to Mom and dad are fighting Slate’s parenting podcast. For Thursday, May 14th, Make Believe Murder Edition. I’m Elizabeth New. I write the Home School and Family Travel Blog. Such. Such. I’m on to three boys. Henry eight. Oliver, who’s now six. And Teddy, three. And I’m located in Navarre, Florida.

S3: And Jamilah Lemieux. I am a writer contributor to Slate Karen Feeding Parenting Column. And Mom to Emma, who is seven. And we live in Los Angeles, California. And of course, I’m a writer for Slate. A super I’m off on FMLA leave this month. Also, I’m the dad of liars who’s fifteen. Well, we’re all sheltered in place in Arlington, Virginia.

S2: This week, we’re debating Make-Believe murder. What do you do about pretend play that turns pretend violence? Is that play normalizing violence or just innocent for our all ages? Everyone is fighting now segment. We are going to be doing a massive game recommendation session. Is your family sick of the games in your house? Need some new ideas. Are you looking for single player game? What about games for sneaky learning? We’ll have a game rack for you. We’ll put a time stamp in the show now so families can find this segment. And as always, we’ll have triumphs and sales and recommendations. Dumela. Do you have a triumph or fail for us this week?

S4: I have a triumph for us. So I’ve been working out for over a month. That is my triumph. I’m very excited about this.

S5: I had been doing yoga once or twice a week before the shelter in place. At a yoga studio, there is one that I go to with Homeboy and another one that I was going to name. I was becoming very L.A. and I joined a gym. Only had a chance to go once before everything. Well, that I can’t blame covered for it because I joined the gym on January 15th and had and I’ve been back, but I had every incentive and once. Yeah. I only have one chance to go. I had every intention of going on a regular basis, but I was doing really good about my yoga classes and then that was taken away from me. And the first few weeks that we were in the house, I just did not have the motivation to workout. And one day it finally found me. And so I workout at least every other day and work for at least an hour. So these aren’t like my phoning it in, doing 30 minutes of cardio just to say I did something, which is not a bad thing, but I am capable of doing a lot more in 30 minutes of cardio and I feel so much better. And the little bit of quarantine weight that I was starting to pick up has disappeared. And I’m seeing some changes in my body and Naima works out with me some days. We’ve even found for anyone who struggling to get fitness into or back into their lives right now, if you like to dance necessarily if you’re a good dancer. But if you enjoy dancing, I’m not the best dancer. I’m probably better than most of you. But that’s because I’m black. But as far as black people go, I’m not a great dancer at all. But I enjoy dancing and I’ve been doing dance fitness. And I always thought that was something that was super cheesy. And I had taken a class back in Brooklyn that I liked and something told me to just look up dance workout videos.

S6: So my favorite YouTube dance Fitness is she doesn’t just dance spin as she’s also got videos about weight loss and diet nutrition. If you’re into that thing. I haven’t gone that far yet. I’m just trying to dance it all off. Her name is Fit Body by Ashley. You can follow her on Instagram Afet Body by Ashley. And what I love so much about her videos, what she has the most positive energy. She only talks at the beginning and sometimes at the end, like during the routine, you hear the music and you just see her face. And yet without saying a word, I feel so encouraged and so capable. Like she does this thing where she, like, draws her mouth into a smile. You know, it’s so sweet. And when I feel like I’m getting tired, if I can finish this, she is like she just knows and she’ll put something on the screen, like almost there. You got it. And at the end, she just makes you feel so good and capable and confident. All that stuff and her dance routines are really a lot of fun and they’re not terribly difficult. And in addition to the body by Ashley, I’ve found a number of random YouTube creators that have dance fitness routines to various Bobby Brown and new edition songs, which Naima loves. So we’re learning the choreography to the Every Little Step video by Bobby Brown. We’re learning it is a love. So it’s been a lot of fun. And because it’s dance and, you know, and I’m doing other ones, too, like strength training links him in at arms, ten minute abs, two minute button glutes, etc. But the dance videos are great for Nyima. So if you’re looking for something that you can do when your kid is either halfway engaged or fully engaged and they like to dance, then I would consider giving that a try. There’s a BSA, one that we do by body, by Ashley and Nyima, who doesn’t always have the patients to follow the steps, along with the instructor, with the instructor, rather the game. We like to play that she’s BSA and I am her backup dancers. And so I’m learning how to backup dancers. So she does her own thing, kind of like, you know, in the front. She’s on class, right? She is the NSA as she turns around from time to time to check in and make sure I’m not doing too bad. And we dance together.

S7: That’s actually a great structure to get your kid to do something with you. It’s like you’re you’re the famous person. Yes. I’m your support. Yes. You make sure I do it right.

S8: And the whole time we get back to the house.

S6: That is how I parent, you know, the famous person. I’m sorry.

S9: That’s good. That’s good. That’s.

S10: That’s inspiring. That’s extremely inspiring. So inspiring that I’m going to discard the fail I was about and just talk about my triumph, which is that in the month of April, I set up an April fitness challenge with a bunch of neighbors where we just have like a very complicated Google spreadsheet. And you get points every day for, you know, doing 100 sit ups or doing 50 pushups or walking 12000 steps or eating healthy according to your own definition, or eating two fruits and vegetables a day or whatever. There’s like different tiers, different ways you can get points. And it gets harder over the course of the month. And so there are probably eight or nine of us doing this challenge in the neighborhood. And in the month of April, I won the challenge by one point. My neighbor Kevin, who is furious just by one point. And so we’re now continuing it in Termeh. We’ve added some different things. There’s now like social distancing benchmarks, like, did you go a whole day without coming within six feet of anyone who you don’t live with? Did you read a book today? Did you talk on the phone to someone who you don’t live with, who you miss, etc., etc., etc.? We also have meditation benchmarks. He also can do yoga or strength training or fitness videos, which we’ve discovered. The yoga videos are everything to do with our kids. This has been really helpful. Unlike Jamila, I look exactly the same.

S7: There’s no discernible difference in my body in any way, shape or form. However, I’m certain that my core strength has been just incredibly augmented by this so I could lift a car at this point, probably because of all the setups. But anyways, I was very proud because, you know, I, I never join a gym because gyms drive me crazy and repetitive exercise. I hate the only exercise I am capable of doing is playing sports, playing basketball or playing soccer or playing tennis or whatever. Now all that shit is off the table. So I was trying to figure out how the hell I was going to not just be incredibly unhealthy all the time for the coming seven to eight years of caravanners quarantine. And so this has really helped. Turns out, once again, game defying triumphs and my desire to defeat my neighbors has overtaken my usual lethargy. The prize for winning April is supposed to be that everyone has to put a sign up in their window that says, Dan defeated me.

S11: So far, no one has done that, but they all promise me they will.

S9: I like this since you couldn’t win games against your children. You just broadened the group.

S10: I actually have an update to that on our third round through the gameboard, tallying our points in every game that we play with the kids. I finally won the third round, which is a little embarrassing, but not as embarrassing as that as the fact that Olea hasn’t yet.

S9: That’s the saving grace for you. Right, right. Right. Well, why both of you are getting healthy. I’m going to tell a story about cake. It was Oliver’s birthday. This is a win. So we usually don’t do like parties.

S12: We tend to do like an experience or try to go somewhere. And Oliver, who is our middle child, is turning six. And he is just like our introvert. But he had come up with this whole list of things that he wanted to do for his sixth birthday. And like the top of the list was go to Disney. Then it was like, I want to stay at a hotel with mom. I want to do all this stuff. And we had sort of said to him, I’m not sure any of this is going to work out. This is before Koven. And then Henry had a medical appointment scheduled in Orlando for the week of Oliver’s birthday. And so Jeff and I thought we might be able to make this work to like have Oliver and I go to Disneyland.

S9: Thank God we didn’t tell him because, of course, all of that came crashing to a halt and literally everything on his list that he was completely just not doable, except that, like, Plan W was that he wanted a pink pig, unicorn cake and party with his family. And so I was like, OK, we can make a pig pink unicorn cake work. So Jeff baked cake and I crafted a unicorn horn headband and I ordered a pig nose from Amazon and I stuck it onto the cake. And I will post a picture of this adorably cute, weird cake. And he wore the little nose the whole time he ate because it was a little plastic nose came off the cake while you eat the cake. And I found a pink pinata, pig pinata. And Jeff strung it up in the front of our house. And I watched him just like go to town on this pinata. Well, I’m just crap from our house, and he thought it was amazing. And the only weird part was that we did the pinata about the time that everyone was out for, like their Mothers Day walks. And since all it does not like any kind of birthday, like he doesn’t really want anyone to know it’s his birthday. Other than us, I’m pretty sure that about half the neighborhood thinks that, like our mother say tradition. And so, like, hang out and just let the kids, like, wail on it. I mean, literally, we just like stuffed pens and reusable straws and stuff into the pinata. And then as it fell down, they just all claimed the stuff. I don’t know. But it was a huge win. He was very happy. I feel successful that we had a pink pig unicorn cake.

S10: Yeah. That’s not the kind of thing you can Google and be like. Oh, great. Alison.

S8: Yes. No. No.

S9: Hey, you know, when I ask him to draw me a picture and it was very, like, amorphous and not. But he said it was exactly what he was picturing. So I’m thankful for that.

S11: Well, don’t tell Oliver I say happy. Yes, exactly. And also, I actually think that thank God we didn’t tell them. Should be everyone’s motto for summer. Yeah. Like the number of things that we’re just skating by on because they didn’t know the amazing plans that we had. Exactly.

S6: I had been pricing tickets to Paris for months and I’ve gone back and forth. At one point I was pricing to take it just for myself. And then I was like, you know, no one has a passport. She might like that.

S4: And I’d even bought her a book about a little I forgot who it was, some little black girl in Paris. And I thought we were gonna go to Paris for a week because it’s prices. They, again, pretty low.

S8: Thank God you didn’t tell her that.

S9: All right. Well, before we move on, I think to me and I need to update you on the car buying situation.

S11: Yes, yes. Yes. How’s it going?

S6: It is going. I reached out to Elisabet and Rechelle until yesterday, but she had clearly done her research.

S9: I would say the email was very well thought out and research. So she’s been thinking about it. Definitely credit for that.

S6: Yes. Yes. I didn’t want to shove ill prepared instructions were that you were to have bought a car.

S8: She’s a slut. She’s. Oh, yeah. How about I said if I went with them? I think she said a fortnight or a full fortnight.

S6: Yes. So I’m halfway there. All right. So you sent an e-mail to Elizabeth? I sent an email with a couple of links to two must things that I loved, including one that was like a green, like a hose, like a pea green 2005 convertible. I loved it so much to me.

S9: I what was on that light? Comedians in Cars, you know, show this is what she would have picked up in like this.

S4: Yeah, definitely be there. Yeah. The car, like I said to a few people and everybody was like, oh yes, you like even if they were like I wouldn’t go with a car that oh I wouldn’t go in a car that many more. They’re like, OK. But look it it’s literally and I’ve rented a Mustang for the weekend. I use a service called Get Around. It’s pretty cool. It’s kind of like Zipcar. It’s actually kind of like air BMB for cars. So you own a car in good shape and you want to make some extra money. You park it, you know, somewhere folks can access it and they can rent it for hours or days at a time and then they just drop it back off. It’s no contact. So I did that because I had a doctor’s appointment on Friday and I was like, okay, I’ll do my groceries for the month. And, you know, I’m like, OK, maybe I can actually go look at a car since, you know, I have a car right now. And this is the thing I actually have to. I know like buying a car right now feels crazy, but it’s and I wish that, you know, if I were trying to spend a little bit more money, I could do to totally like it. Be easier to just have one dropped off here and it’s no big deal. I need to kind of, you know, see these in person and know that I’m getting something that’ll last meal at least six months to a year, if not longer. And so I picked out another Mustang in 2014 and is a really reasonable price. And it’s looking for a test drive yesterday. And I sense a link to Lizabeth and Jeff responded with a very comprehensive, very well thought out. Very I could I could hear the like.

S8: I want to tell her not to buy this old ass car, but he’s very, very respectful, very good. He was very engineer about it. And I did ask I said, don’t send that e-mail so I can read it. Was he too polite? Yes.

S9: He just wanted to make sure she’s in a she’s in a good car. And he also because to me, I’ll send her email like I think I can do that.

S8: So he was also like, you can do this, but I’m also here for you and I’m going to I think and was very like sales pitch. And he was like, I’m going to make sure you’re in a car that, you know, borderline used car salesman. Yes, it was.

S4: It was awesome. So happy to have the two of you all to send my my car choices to in the next week because I am going to try to make dance that line.

S6: I needed somebody and I had a guy, you know, a guy friend who I haven’t any links to and he he said finally, so where are you just going to pick one.

S11: Oh, kay.

S7: So, yeah, this is a good business.

S4: He’s raising a good point, which is I’ve been doing this for months now. So it’s just time to buy one.

S10: All right. This is a great update. But next week, I my update to come with a side order of Jameela and Jeff from across the country calling a car place together and posing as personalist.

S8: Yeah, boss. Yeah, super. Yeah, exactly like that, I imagine. Oh, yeah. Yes. You have backups to answer to right now, Jeff. Exactly. Yes.

S11: And he is calling to make this card. This is what I want out of my dispatch. So please do this.

S4: We’ll see what we can do. We just want to get it again. Just out of the car.

S8: I just want to hear it. Yeah. Yeah. We hope it ends and go.

S9: And we are getting a car. All right. Well, those are updates.

S13: So before we move on, let’s do the business sleights parenting newsletter is the best place to be notified about all our parenting content, including mom and dad are fighting care and feeding and much more. Sign up at Slate dot com slash parenting email and check us out on Facebook. Just search for slate parenting. It’s a really fun, active community. Plus, we moderate it so it doesn’t get out of control. Also on Facebook, every Tuesday at 11:00 Eastern, we have a live Keryn feeding show with Nicole Cliffe to catch it live. Go to Slate’s Facebook page or find previous episodes on Slate’s YouTube page.

S9: OK, onto this week’s listener question, which we snatched from Facebook. It’s being read by the fabulous Shachar Leonhard.

S14: Hey, Mom and Dad are fighting. Do you let your kids pretend to kill things? My kids are four and five. Twice in the last two days, my kids fantasy play has involved murder. It is disturbing me. My instinct, which I followed, is to stop violent pretend games. But I’m able to imagine how this kind of fantasy could be healthy. Please weigh in.

S7: I totally understand. Your instinct, your impulse, like it just always drives me crazy, it drove me crazy when my kids were littler and they would all of a sudden be pretending to play with guns or like, you know, talking about how they’re killing each other or beating each other up or or beating up bad guys even would just like give me this, like a feeling of high. That’s not the human beings I want them to be. But this is the rare case where I am going to urge you to go against your instinct a little bit to sort of find a way to get past that initial you feel about this, because in general, behavioral experts agree that kids that age who enact violence and fantasy play, it’s not really about violence. It’s about exploring the parameters of power by essentially powerless people. Right. Your kids don’t really feel like they have this much power and they’re starting to understand how power works in the world and pretend play. Even that doesn’t involve violence often is about establishing who has the right to tell who what to do, who is the boss, who isn’t the boss. And usually the kinds of enacted violence and pretend play are about that. It’s developmentally very normal and very beneficial, I think, for those kids. It’s also very hard to get them to stop. And it’s hard to get them to stop in a way that doesn’t just involve making them feel ashamed or bad about what they’re doing and forcing it underground the way that all behavior that kids sort of just instinctively want to do. You know, descends underground when you try and make it stop. So, you know, I think there are more things to talk about around this. And I’d love to hear you guys have to say, but my basic answer is let them explore this and look at it and watch it and think about how it’s working as you think about how you feel about it. But what do you guys think?

S4: I typically, you know, there are some movies and TV shows and name a scene where death is involved. And she has a pretty outsized reaction at times to violence and occasionally adult language, which is interesting because she’s also tried to dabble in using adult language, but she doesn’t enjoy hearing me say she doesn’t like thing on TV. And when people die or are killed in movies, she tends to be very turned off. So like we watch Dreamgirls and as much as she liked it, she was so saddened by James Thunder early dying that, you know, she said, I don’t really like that movie, even though she has requested to watch it many times since her initial review was it was sad, but it ended on this really happy note. She’s like, yeah, but he died. And so with that, we haven’t had to deal too much with her wanting to do violent play. But as a rule, I do avoid it. I’ve not allowed her to have any gun toys kind of struggle, a little bit of water guns because they were one of my favorite toys growing up. And I really do enjoy using them. And especially on a hot day, they can be a lot of fun. But I decided that like any and the theme seems to go for her father’s house, that we can do a water toy that does not resemble an actual weapon. But we’re not doing anything that actually looks like a gun. So personally, I think the world is very violent. I think there’s a lot of violence that kids are going to encounter in a number of ways, especially if you allow them to watch the news. And so I myself, we just don’t play that, you know. She should point the finger at me or something or pretend to do some kind of killing thing. And I just shut it down immediately. So I think there is a safe and reasonable way to kind of work do these things. But I just don’t want to even with the idea that, like, not everybody is a good person and there are some people who, if they died, the world maybe would be a better place. Am I going to name any names? But, you know, I’m sure we can all think of a few and I’m okay with her being aware of that. But I just I don’t want her playing it violent. I don’t want her to get that comfortable with it as a solution for anything.

S9: So we have a lot of violent play. There’s three boys and their friends are mostly boys. Jeff and I just kind of decided on some, like, boundaries for which we wanted to enforce in that everything kind of outside of our I guess, inside of those boundaries are fine.

S12: So, like, we don’t allow any playing of guns, especially when we’ve talked about guns on the show before and are kind of handling of that. And so anytime I see any, like, stick, finger, whatever, that’s just a hard line. And we’ve talked with the kids about why that is, because it is just such an impersonal way to kill someone. Is it fun to pretend that you have, like, said something toward someone that could kill them? No. Also, we talked a lot about, like trying to figure out what the scenario is in which they’re playing this game. And I think that is to kind of like an open dialogue. So I try to be involved, even though I think I’m often kind of like a go play and I try not to be very involved in their play. I try to be around and I know what’s going on. And I commonly asked like, oh, what’s happening over here? Because a lot of times it is stuff that is like they are a group looking for bad guys or looking for zombies, are looking for whatever. And things like that I think are very damn, like you said, looking for power. And there are bad guys in the world and trying to kind of figure that out. But in general, I don’t allow any of the, like, real people to be bad guys. I have just said, like, we are not fighting anyone else here if they want to, like, sword fight with sticks.

S9: I tried to suggest and now these have just kind of come the rules of playing, you know, here at our house or or when I have people around, like, well, we can, like, train with our swords. So we’re like training, you know, which is more like a sport than necessarily pretending to kill someone. But I do just think, like, if if you tried to ban it, then it becomes something they do when they’re not there.

S12: And in the world where we’re back playing, not at our homes, there’s a lot of opportunity of things happening at other people’s houses and play that is allowed there. And so I just tried to provide some boundaries and reasons behind those boundaries. And then other suggestions of things we can do that are just as fun and maybe still are like aggressive and power play. And we can take our sticks and, like, fight things in the trees. And we’re still like physically aggressing at things because that seems to be something my children need to do and seek a way to do that, no matter, you know how I try. But I think in general, for us, Atley, shutting it down completely doesn’t seem to work and also seems to just present kind of more problems of, well, this is something I want to do someplace else. So we’ve just tried to enforce them boundaries and mostly, again, with the guns. It’s something we just. Don’t tolerate and have have explained that to the children over and over again. But the other things, I mean, there’s tons of like wrestling and jumping on each other and things like that here. The other big thing is we talked about a lot is about like consent. Like, I’ll often see them in a pile in the yard and just yell like, is everybody did everybody want to be doing this?

S8: Is everybody having fun?

S12: And as long as I sort of get thumbs up from everyone, I’m sort of like, all right, well, what are you gonna do about it?

S7: I think that that’s an important point and one that I think this letter writers should think about. When you’re a parent, you sort of wonder, well, what is the line in our family? What are we going to deem? Okay. And what are we going to decide is not OK? And a great way to think about that in general is you’re looking for play. That is play. You’re looking for play. That is fun and fun for everyone. And some of that often has to do with consent. Right. Is everyone into the thing that is happening right now? You’re looking for with, you know, quote unquote violent play. What you’re looking for is is one kid always the aggressor and is the other kid always the victim? And does the other kid not like that role when they play with pretend guns? Even if you are trying to rhythm of that, are they in agreement about what the rules are or are they in agreement about what’s fun about it and what the task is? You know, this is something that we talk about a lot on this show, a way for your kids to cooperate against a bad guy. Right. Is almost always gonna be a a better way and a more fun way to play than battle between your kids or violent altercation, even a quote unquote play violent altercation between those kids. But I just think trying to keep in mind that the goal of play is play. And even if it’s not exactly recognizable to you, a grown adult as fun, if it’s reading to your kids is fun. And, you know, when your kids are happy and enjoying things, when they’re unhappy and not enjoying things, that it is a useful way to think of that border.

S4: Yeah, like be thinking of it as play or keeping play play or keeping play fun. I try to discourage anything that sad, you know, and sometimes Namur, like a lot of kids, can come up with scenarios that are like rooted in some sort of sense as a tragedy, you know. And I try to pivot away from that. You know, the world is difficult enough, so. When we’re playing, let’s play something that’s fun. So we’re not reacting to some sort of awful tragedy unless it’s something perhaps that she comes up with that speaks to something she needs to work out, you know? So it’s one thing. You know, we’ve recently had to deal with the death of someone we know or celebrity or, you know, something in the news and she wants to play it. You know, we played Rabie the lab. So if she wanted to do some sort of scenario that involves Farrell or people mourning, that’s one thing. But if it’s a matter of life, wouldn’t it be funny to kill or wouldn’t it be great if we were killing things? Then I use as an opportunity to remind her that death is sad and complicated. And, you know, let’s try to keep the games that we’re playing fun.

S9: Yeah, I do think these scenarios like are good opportunities for discussion, too, because if you’re sort of one foot into the player or even just like observing it, it’s I find like the kids are willing to tell me all about the stuff that they were doing and they were pretending.

S12: And then to be able to help them unpack that is a good opportunity to address some of these things. Like you said, like that, this is you know, death is sad. And that’s not necessarily something we want to be pretending there are ways to do that. That isn’t like raining on their parade. And also that you can kind of shift the play and put ideas for next time. And I’ve certainly seen that like we’ve had a conversation. And the next time they go out to play, the game has turned to kind of some of the things we talking about, like, well, wouldn’t it have been funny if, like, these bad guys, like, hit up in the trees or could have this power or something to kind of steer that to be something that they can play with?

S9: So good opportunity for discussion. All right. So, listeners, if you’d like us to weigh in on your problems or questions, send it our way. Email us at mom and dad at Slate dot com.

S13: All right. Now it’s time for our All Ages segment. Everyone is fighting now. If your family is anything like ours, games have been in high demand these last few weeks. And it’s getting to the point where you and your kids may have exhausted the games in your home. So we put out a call on Facebook for parents to send in their game requests and we’re going to give personalized game recommendations to help us out. We are joined by a fellow game aficionado, Jessica Waldock, from the home school and parenting site The Waldock Way. Jessica is one of my favorite home school resources. We use her Harry Potter curriculum as a basis for our home school. And one of its defining features is the inclusion of some amazing games that I had never heard of before. So welcome, Jessica.

S15: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

S9: Jessica, we’re going to start with a few questions of our own before moving on to listener questions. OK, Dan, do you want to get us started?

S10: Sure. All right. Here’s a story with our family and our relationship with games. Our two kids are 12 and 15, and the 12 year old will play nearly any game. She loves them all. She’ll play anything anytime. But the 15 year old really likes cards. She will play hearts or hell or rummy. She likes the sort of the strategy that’s involved in that. But she is not interested in a long, complicated game that takes like an hour or an hour and a half. So we’ve never been able to get her interested in ticket to ride or sellers of Battan or anything. That seems like long. She want to be in and out in like half an hour. And so what I’m looking for is a game that has strategy and critical thinking and rewards that in the sort of cards mode but doesn’t have so much strategy that it takes forever.

S1: So one of our absolute favorite games, and I love it because it appeals to a very wide range of ages and people is dragging wood because of the ages of your children.

S15: I would step it up to their newest release, which is Dragon Realm. So it has a card feature, but it’s also going to have some other features with it. And it’s going to give you that card like Feel and it plays on less than 30 minutes.

S10: Dragon realm, is it like sword and sorcery related in some way?

S1: It’s more fun related. I mean, it has dragons and goblins and stuff, but it’s not like DMD. It’s not role playing, if that’s what you’re asking.

S10: All right. Dragon Roll. Thank you. Great recommendation. We will look it up.

S4: I have a seven year old who also struggles with games that take a long time to play. And she also doesn’t like losing. So most of the games that we play are typically imagine like we make up scenarios and we act them out. We tend to do more of that than we do a board game. We do play heads up pretty often as well as Ohno. Last time we played no, I literally watched her give herself a good hand and then she could not believe, like my accusations when I brought it to her. She, like, I had the worst possible hand of anybody. And she had like all I told her I would offer her my other game. I will give you 20 dollars to show me your hand right now. And she was, like, stuck because it was like, whoa, with twenty dollars. But then also she knows exactly what’s in my hand. And I just took the cards because she hesitated and. Like all judges. So is there a good game that if it’s not Heat crew, at least it will be fun for us when she cheats? OK. And we can talk about it. And perhaps Lill will learn some sort of lesson about cheating, which she doesn’t think to learn.

S16: Right. So first, because you said imaginative, I’m going to mention something and that is a D and D like game. So it’s role playing, but it’s for younger kids. And I’m talking like five and older. It’s called Hero Kids. It’s a really, really great it’s role playing. It’s kind of what we started with my daughter, who was six at the time. So it gives you that role playing scenarios. And because, like, my husband is the person setting it up, he can set it up in such a way that we’re doing the same things that maybe she’s doing something a little easier than what I would be doing.

S1: So because you said imaginative, that is something I would definitely suggest. There are also games that are called coöperative games. Now, a cooperative game means that you are all playing against the game. So let’s say, for instance, there’s a game called Race to the Treasure. The ogre is trying to beat you and you and your child will be playing together against the ogre. So you either win together or you lose together. So you kind of there would be no reason to cheat because you can’t really set it up to cheat against the game itself.

S13: We play a cooperative game, actually, that is in just curriculum for herbology. That is wild craft. And everybody is racing together. And all of my kids can play it and they do like want to have the urge to cheat.

S7: And it’s nice to be able to remind them, like, hey, we all have to make it there and back before the sun sets or what, you know, whatever it is, Jimmy, when my kids were at that extremely competitive, hates to lose age, we did find cooperative games, incredibly valuable to get us through that period and tell they were able to deal with winning and losing a little bit better.

S1: Yeah, it’s a really hard stage. I promise they get past it. Mine is about to be eight and we’ve just kind of exited it. So it’s on the horizon. You’re almost there. Get a couple good cooperative games just to get you over the edge. And hopefully because once they realize that you have to work together to win, it kind of changes the way they look at games and they’re less likely to cheat in those games when you’re competing head to head later on.

S9: So just before we move to listener questions, I just want to ask you, like, what is your go to game for your family?

S17: Like if you’re just going to pick one up that everyone’s going to enjoy.

S1: Okay, so I’m going to have to name three because there’s three of us and we each we each have a very distinctive favorite. And normally when we do family game nights, one of the ways we get around, like making everybody happy is we all bring a game to the table. So like it’s a family game night. We all bringing games to the table and it kind of makes it like, okay, maybe this isn’t my favorite, but in a minute we’re going to play a game I love and it makes it worth it. So hands down my daughters bring in Dragon Wood to the table every single time. She absolutely loves it. I love that there’s some sneaky math in it. So she’s always practicing math on that one, so I have no problem playing it. My husband will hands down, pick Yahtzee every single day of the week no matter what. Like that is his favorite. He loves it. It’s dice related. He loves that you can play in that kind of a quick way and that there is a little bit of strategy. But after, you know, like a long day’s work, it’s not so much strategy that it’s hurt his brain and then hands out. My favorite is, oh, this is hard as Rummy Cube. For the longest time. And now I’m really, really loving Corkle lately. So I have that kind of I’ll oracle, too. Yeah. So one of the two of those, like I bounce back and forth, but those are the four that are most frequently sitting on our game table.

S10: I believe Rubby Cube was a recommendation on the very first episode of Mom Dad are fighting thanks to Alison Benedicts running huge champion like that.

S13: OK, just that. Now we have a voicemail question for you from Samuel.

S18: Hello. My name is Samuel and we want to call him about your boardgames request. Me and my sister, who is 13, love to play games. So I Valiums are Corkle Scrabble and a few card games like Rumney and Hearts. Long time listener, first time caller. Thank you, guys. Michel. Thanks.

S16: Okay. Well, because he said, Corkle, I’m obviously going to recommend Rahmi Cube, since those are my two favorites. I think they were really enjoy that one.

S15: Another one that plays kind of similar. It’s going to be blockhouse. Some people say bloke is however you want to pronounce it. The play is the same. And there’s a duo version because he said him and a sister. You can technically play with two players with the original. You would just play two colors. But they have a duo. So if you specifically are only going to be playing with two players frequently, I would just go ahead and get that one. It’s easier. And then because of the card games he mentioned. I would say Skip Bo would be a really great option for them as well.

S13: We have Glaucus like that and I like that even the little kids can play like even if they don’t understand, they can put the pieces on. Like, understand that they only have to headquarters.

S9: And it does actually still make the game even more challenging for the other. This time it’s a nice family game.

S1: Yeah, Emily’s been playing this since she was like four and she’s like, oh, I’m just gonna put it here. And I’m like, oh, you just made that twice as hard for me. Yeah. I don’t mean to like, she wasn’t trying to strategize. It just happens.

S9: Yeah, I like that. It does seem like the three year old can play and actually like a lot of his plays, make things harder for people. And so he likes that. It’s like he’s playing without knowing.

S10: So yeah, I also love Lorqess, but I would caution that it is the world’s easiest game to lose pieces from, which then drives everyone completely insane. One thing I’d add for kids around these kids age, Samuell sounded maybe even a little bit older than a sister. Las Vegas is a great game that sort of operates. It’s not as spatial as those other games, but it’s more about math and probability. And it’s a dice rolling game with sort of a slightly gambling ask. Thing that I think teenagers sometimes find kind of fun in and slightly dangerous. Those are great recommendations. I would love to throw to another one of our questions. I’m interested in this call from Sarah, whose daughter is playing pretty advanced games. And I’m curious what you think about their situation.

S19: Hi, Tina Sarah from Oakland, California. And I am looking for a personalized game recommendation. We have one nine year old daughter. Hopefully I enjoy playing of loses the pain. Also was just basically gone. I’m personally into role playing games and off you Parkin’s fault. All of a sudden, do you have any recommendations?

S16: Okay. Because they like Settlers’ or Cotan. I would say Carcassonne would be another one that they would probably enjoy. It has kind of the same tile laying trading type play. Stone Age is another really fun one that I really, really like. And then because she said she likes role playing games, I’m gonna mention hero kids again if they’re not ready to enter the world of Dandy’s. I mean, obviously, you can get like the starter D.A. sets, but if they’re not ready to start that with a nine year old hero, kids would be a great role playing game to start with her.

S4: Okay, so we got some questions on Facebook, one from Diane that I thought was pretty interesting. We play games, be a Zoome with another family so far. Family Feud and Battleship seem to work. Yahtzee was a little disjointed. We’d love more suggestions. The kids are eleven and twelve.

S15: So this is actually come up a lot lately, especially since so many of us are stuck home and doing Zoome for everything. Some of our favorites have been headbands, has a really fun one. You can play chess master. Guess who? And then you can do things like Shrader and Hang Man. I actually have an entire blog post over virtual gaming and I have some free principles that go along with it. Like for hangmen, Yahtzee and Quix are also good ones.

S16: I know she said it’s a little disjointed, but what makes it so great is if you’re playing with people who maybe don’t have a lot of games on hand, you can print one of those, you know, printable games sheets off and all you need is a few dice. So it makes it easy to not have to you own a game and both houses to still be on the play.

S4: Are there any online games that are playable vs ism if you don’t have like an X bar? I mean, that’s how long it’s been since I’ve been around a gaming system. I’m like X. That’s right. That’s the thing everyone plays. But are there any online games that you suggest that we could play household to household?

S15: One of our favorite is words with friends, which is essentially just Scrabble. We also like it’s called Sarro. It’s spelled with a T in the beginning, t s u r o. They have the board game version, but you can play. I think it’s a places an app now actually. But that’s really, really great for multiple players. You can play with up to four people on that one.

S9: There’s also a Web site called Board Game Arena dot com that we’ve used to play board games with friends, but that’s all been adults. I didn’t really think about it like with children, but for date nights with friends, we’ve just all logged online on our computer and played to that, I would suggest.

S10: And we had another person who also asked about playing with grandparents, which maybe is just a slightly different vibe than playing with other families, with other kids. But there’s a game we love to play at home called Codenames, which is just a fantastic game party game. It’s great with adults, but also with older kids. Our kids really like it a lot. Codenames itself does not yet have a great online version, but they appear in and tell. Possibly they hear this podcast and shut it down to have allowed a sort of a bootleg version of codenames online created by just a fan of the game that allows you to create your own game with someone. Far away from you on their own laptop, and then you can talk to each other, view zoom and use this page to play codenames together. And we’ll put a link on the show page by. It’s at Horse Paiste dot com. And it’s it’s very, very good. We’ve played it with a bunch of friends and then four kids playing with grandparents, especially with littler kids. If you’re looking for something that they can do easily. We’ve been play a lot of cards online and there’s a great sort of old school Web style site called Cards Media dot com. See Nardizzi mania. Com, which just allows you to create little personal tables to play rummy or hearts or, you know, even for littler kids, something like Crazy Eights with people far away. And you can even turn on your webcam and see the little versions of yourself around the table. And we’ve been doing that a lot with Kiki down in North Carolina.

S17: We’ve also played to the stations, which Damu told my family when you told us we were playing on napkins and it was disorganized, but we’ve just been doing it by text. So we have a group text where we post the final answer, but someone text someone something. That person draws the text to someone else. So it kind of goes on all day. And every once in a while we just get a picture of some ridiculous thing and some other ridiculous drawings. So and so far, that’s less of like a game night and more. I’m just like, let’s get through this Cauvin thing together.

S15: Apples to apples will work really similarly. If everybody had the cards, you could do something really similar to that. We’d like a group text. Shazam.

S9: Oh, that’s true. Yeah. Or make up your own answers.

S11: Yeah.

S13: I wanted to ask you another question from Facebook. This is from Alison. And she asks, Can you also cover games that only require a single player as an only child? I was stuck playing solitaire because not much else allowed for a single player, for older and younger kids and adults who want to play a game alone, too.

S17: And I know you have an only child and doing the game schooling. I assume she plays quite a few games on her own.

S15: Yes. So one of my top recommendations is think fine. They have a ton of single player logic games is kind of the umbrella name you would put them under. What is so awesome about them is most, I think, by everyone we own anyway. So like rush hour chocolate fix balance beams comes with a deck of challenge cards and they’re normally about 40. And so they have easy, medium, hard and super hard meaning that that same game. My five year old can play it and my husband, who is almost 50, was also being challenged. So there that’s my top pick for single player games, because there’s just so many that range for such a big age and that makes it all really fun. Educational inside also makes the canoodle line. So you have canoodle control extreme and there’s canoodle gravity. All of those are really, really fine. And then Smart Game has some for younger kids and they have a really great line of travel games that are magnetic.

S1: So if you’re going to I know right now a lot of us are in the car, but in the future, when we’re all in the car again, they have a ton of great magnetic single player logic games. So you can have four or five of them in the back seat for your kids to play individually. You know, when you need them to not talk to each other or in my case, when you have only one and you just need her to leave you alone while you’re driving. Yeah.

S17: That airbases game, which I think you also recommended to me, it can also be played as a single player, which is nice, like set up your own little garden and there’s rules and stuff that I can come check to and see how he’s doing. So our eight year old really likes that.

S1: There’s a lot of games like Spot, it is technically meant for multiple players, but a lot of them have now. They probably did it, you know, years ago, but they also have like that single player play written into the rules. So there’s options for that in many games that play multiple players as well.

S10: Spot it for one player is a great idea, actually, that I can totally see how that would work. Here’s another question from Facebook from Halli. I would love game suggestions for a family of three with a 14 year old who only likes video games. He will play exploding kittens, which ends up being a game of chance with three players. We heard from a lot of people whose teenagers would only play exploding kittens. That game has like a stranglehold on the market and has, once in quarantine, played Jenga with us. And once played Mexican dominos, only when we reach play exploding kittens, I’ve suggested Cotan, a ZUHAL, etc., but he has no interest. Once in a while he’ll play Speed Monopoly, where you dial out the property cards and just skip all the turns around the board. What should we do? Give up and let him spend time online with his friends or force him into family time and perhaps make him hate board games even more. So this is not only a question for game recommendations, but also a philosophical question. What do you do with his teenager? What do you think?

S16: Well, the first thing I would do is buy bears versus babies, which is the New York game from the same makers of exploding kittens. So if your kid loves that buy bears versus babies, because they may also love that they had mentioned that he really likes playing speed monopoly.

S15: So a monopoly deal would be a good option because that’s card game Monopoly and it literally is Speed Monopoly. It goes very fast because they convince him to play Jenga. Suspend would also be a fun one to play. It’s kind of Jenga in reverse. So you’re hanging the pieces and trying not to make them fall. I wouldn’t force them, though. I mean, you kind of want. Family game night to be fine, so I wouldn’t force it. I would suggest trying like what we do, which is OK. Everybody bring a game to the table. If his favorite is exploding cans. That’s what he’s gonna bring to the table.

S1: You and your spouse maybe bring wine with the agreement that this is family game night. But if they really, really, really hate it, then don’t do it. It’s not fun for anybody then.

S10: Good advice. Even I say as someone who loves forcing my children to do things they don’t like.

S4: I got another question from Facebook. This one is from a listener who has a five year old girl and a two year old boy, and she wants to know if there are any games that kids of those ages can play together without there being blood involved. The name is Melissa, and she says that she would buy every single option. So what do you do when you have a toddler and a little kid?

S15: I’m going to go back to coöperative games again on that one, because I honestly think that not having a winner is going to be the only option for there to be no bloodshed. Those two ages peaceable kingdom makes the best coöperative games. Some of the ones I would suggest for them specifically would be count your chickens who now hoot. If no one’s a boy, one’s a girl. But Mermaid Island is mermaids. But it’s so really fun. Dinosaur escape. All of those are by peaceable kingdom.

S1: They’re all co-operative and they’re all kind of games that would work really well with it. I mean, not you’re gonna have to sit down and show the two year old how to play as an adult once or twice. But they’re all the games that could be played with a two and a five year old once you’ve taught them how to play the game.

S13: There is a brand called Chuckle and Roar. And I believe I know they have a website. They’re sold at Target as well. I’m not sure if they’re on Amazon, but they have a game called Red Light, Green Light, and it’s a preschool like racing game and you just pick up a card. If it’s a green light, you get to go with the red light. You get to stop. Really simple. But my six year old and three year old will play that together. And there’s like cones that you can set out to try to go around. So there’s enough stuff going on. But it’s like super simple. He understands the rules enough to run the game. So that has worked out for us.

S11: I can’t say it never leads to fighting, but bloodshed is at a minimum.

S8: Yeah. Yeah. Well, they usually play for a while.

S17: Yeah, exactly. Jessica, it’s been such a pleasure to have you on here. And I know you have a ton of recommendations up on your blog, like for every age sorted. And so if people didn’t hear what they were looking for. Definitely go there. And I know you’re always posting your games on Instagram. I’m always feeling inspired.

S15: I also just wanted to mention, if you were in a situation where maybe you can’t afford to buy games right now because we are all stuck home. I am actually have been offering I will continue to offer it until the time the world opens up again, whenever that is. I have a game night and a bag, which is a printable with 15 games that you can play with a deck of cards and just a few dice that you can go to the DA tree, spend two dollars and play fifteen games as a family. So if that’s something you maybe financially you can’t invest in games right now, that’s always a great option as well.

S17: That’s amazing. And people can find that on your website.

S1: So you can find that on my blog. It is free on the Waldock way dot com.

S7: Thank you so much, Shasta. One last thing before we move out, I’m gonna throw in a plug as well for Slate’s great cover story, published about a year and a half ago by Noel Murray, the 40 greatest family games that introduced me to a million great games. I think I might introduce readers to a bunch of good ones as well.

S13: Well, I suppose the link to that on the show page, while listeners will put all of our game suggestions in the show notes and on the Slate show page so you can find them. Also, email us at Mom and dad at Slate dot com to let us know who you’d like to hear from in our next. Everyone is fighting now segment, OK?

S9: The show isn’t over yet. It’s time for recommendations. Dan, what do you have for us?

S10: Our kids, like many people’s kids, have been slowly trying to work out what online school means for them here in Arlington. There’s much less required of kids than I think in many jurisdictions.

S7: And so we have been hungry for other ways where we could feel like they are picking up new skills or new information or are just doing something that vaguely resembles something academic. And so we have actually signed up our kids for a couple of classes on out school, which is a Web site which collects up experts of various stripes and allows them to teach, you know, 30 minute or hour long zoom classes to kids at different age levels. And I think I believe also to adults. But we’ve been taking advantage of their classes for tweens and teens, and it has actually worked pretty well. And the experiences have widely varied. Some of the classes have been great. Some have been bad. Some have banned funny disaster. Some of them have worked. Inspiringly well. But what they all have in common is that they’re really cheap. And so you do not feel like you are wasting money if you pay for. Creative writing class or an improv class, and it doesn’t quite work for the other kids and it aren’t great because you only pay 10 or 15 bucks for that thing. And they have ended up in classes that they really liked. Harper really liked this funny thing, which wasn’t even exactly class as much as a game, but it was a online escape room in which they solved various puzzles, led by a very nice woman from Britain who was like sort of teaching them things about British history and the geography of London, but really was just like them playing a game online with their friends. But Lara has taken creative writing classes. Needless to say, their favorite class at our school that they’ve both taken is the one about animal crossing. But nevertheless, we’ve been pretty happy with it. And if you are looking for something a little bit academic that is low pressure and low risk, you could do worse than give it a try.

S17: We also use our school. We’ve been using it for a while with homeschool and just can’t. Henry takes a magic class on there that he just loves and it’s something I would never drive in to sound under any circumstances.

S4: Toomelah. What do you have for us? Not that there’s any shortage of newer television shows to watch or binge on any of the various streaming platforms that we have. And I think at this point we have every single one of them. But the other day we were struggling to come up with something to watch on TV. And I thought, you know, of a show that I grew up watching as it aired as a current television program and have watched many times over the years in syndication. And it had, I think, an indelible impact on my humor and my wit and taught me a lot about the world. And so I recommend getting your kids now NamUs seven, not every 70 artists as mature as mama. Not every parent is as permissive as me. But we have gotten started on the Golden Girls.

S7: What a great recommendation.

S4: You know, everyone loved the Golden Girls and they dealt with so many, you know, serious issues from homophobia to the HIV AIDS crisis and insecurities and just so many things that came up over the course of that show. So progressive. I’ve had a few cringe worthy moments thus far, but for the most part, an incredibly progressive show. And again, like I watch this, you know, it came on. It must’ve started airing when I was four or five. And it was something that we watched and it helped, you know, make me witty. And I Nyima got into it. I was a little nervous that she wouldn’t. But I think it’s a really, you know, find shows if you think your kids are ready for the Golden Girls. It is a delight to binge and something that hopefully won’t drive you crazy and that your kids will also be into as well.

S7: I love that recommendation. It’s a show that taught like very particular generation, the art of the loving, withering put down, which I think is like a crucial skill. Everyone should know and you can learn at best from the Golden Girls.

S4: I definitely identify strongly with Dorothy as a child. I know Dorothy’s wit was enviable blanches. Life was perhaps a little bit more enviable, just as the hot girl of the group. Now that I’m an adult, I am just incredibly astounded at what a great straight man Betty White is and that she could say these ridiculous things and just be so earnest and wide eyed. And the scary thing is that they don’t look as old to me as they used to, which is a commentary on my own life. I think when the show started, there are like 10 years older than I am now. Yeah. It shows you how differently like we looked at aging back then. Even though they were leading these independent cool. You know, everyone works for the most part. Everyone dated. Everyone had a social life, you know, did various activities like bowling and stuff. But they were not so far in age from the Sex and the City women. Right. For their existences have been so drastically different. But surprisingly fun show for seven year olds for sure.

S7: I’m a Blatche, obviously. Elizabeth, what are you recommending?

S13: I am recommending this little bookstore. It’s a local chain in middle Georgia and it’s called Got Walls Books, and they will mail you these survival packs. And you thought this little survey. Tell them what you’re reading or what your kid’s like. And for thirty five dollars, they send you 50 dollars of used books. The shipping is free and we have done a adult pack for Jeff and I to get some new books and then a pack for the kids. And instead of listing books that necessarily the kids liked, I listed kind of some of the things that we were studying or covering at home school.

S9: And they sent us a whole bunch of just like amazing picture books and new read our chapter books, used books that are just great since we can’t really get to a used bookstore or a library and they’re just adorable. They called when I filled out the form to just confirm the ages of my kids, making sure they had stuff for each of them. So they’re lovely to deal with. And that’s got Walt’s books and it’s called Their Survival Pack.

S10: That’s a great. Foundation. I’ve loved all the different ways the bookstores have been finding to keep servicing customers and keep getting books into the world.

S9: Yeah. It’s nice. You know, bookstores are such a necessity. Like, kind of realizing that how much we we need them. Even with the availability of online books, we’ve just really been missing the influx of books we get from the library and thrift stores in different places that we’re always picking stuff up.

S2: So. Well, that’s our show one more time. If you have a question. Email us at mom and dad at Slate dot com. And join us on Facebook. Just search for slate parenting. Mom and Dad are fighting is produced by Rosemarie Bellson for Dan Boyce and Jamila with you. I’m Alex.

S9: Hello, Slate. Plus listeners. Thank you so much for supporting mom and dad are fighting. It really, really means a lot to us. So perhaps you’ve heard that Elon Musk and Grimes outdid the likes of Gwyneth Paltrow, Cameron Diaz and a slew of other celebrities who chose unique names for their children. But Elan and Grimes couldn’t be confined by the English alphabet. The name is spelled X Men a little A that leans against Annie a dash twelve and it’s pronounced. I’m going to leave that to our special guest. We have a special guest for today’s plus segment. Slate’s Heather Swindell is here to discuss the celebrity baby name that even the parents can’t agree on how to pronounce. Welcome, Heather. I thank you for having me. Heather, first of all, how are you pronouncing this name?

S20: I don’t think I’ve actually said it out loud yet. I typed in a bunch of times, I guess I would say Iran’s pronunciation, which is X Ash H. Well, but then Grind’s has given a different enunciation. They don’t agree and said these things in different places. And she says it’s X Y and she didn’t talk about the third part. So the third part B either H well. Or our Angel or Arcangel. Well there are a lot that it’s fine because I definitely assume that it was pronounced X Y. Her explanation for that, i.e. is it’s her Elvin’s spelling of. I which means the love in a few languages and also artificial intelligence. Because she’s very into tech and that sort of thing.

S7: She’s so into tech that she had a baby with you on mosque.

S11: Yes. So. Jamila, how would you pronounce his name? I wouldn’t think it’s absolutely ridiculous. If you had this baby in the wild, what would you say? Oh oh, it’s i.e. PR.. Yeah. I mean, our version of this. Is that right? Yes.

S7: She said she was not going to reveal the baby’s gender because she did not want the baby to feel locked into any particular gender. And then Elon Musk just tweeted at someone. It’s a boy.

S20: Yeah. Their communications are not aligned.

S9: And the baby’s name may be the least of his or her problems or their problems or. Yes. On the scale of, well, maybe celebrity names. Is this the greatest ever?

S20: It either is or it’s broken that scale.

S9: Is it a name? Yeah.

S20: Yeah. I spoke to a baby named expert who said that it’s not really a name because legally, if that is the name they put on your birth certificate. And in California, it would be rejected because California only allows the letters of the alphabet. You can’t even have an accent, Mark, or an apostrophe in your name in California that they’re really not going to accept a non-standard symbol like that, a which is called an ash and the dash. Wow. So it may not be workable for them. It could still be the child’s name in theory, but they’re going to have to figure out what they’re going to use practically on paper.

S9: How does one get the ash when typing?

S20: Oh, I think copy and pasting it.

S9: There is not as of right now, like a quick Keith short cut that I was unfamiliar with.

S11: Yeah, I love that letter.

S10: Updates of the Tesla technology.

S11: If you drive over 70 miles per hour, it will immediately cut and paste that character into the clipboard of your car. Perfect. Yeah. What are they going to call this kid just like around the house?

S7: What do you call the kid when little X, i.e. a twelve is four years old and is about to run into the street and they want to yell, the kids stop. What are they gonna yell?

S20: Well, I didn’t see that Elon Musk’s mother posted a little like. Yay, welcome, baby. And she just called the baby X. I think that’s still a little hard. But it’s at least like a sound we all know how to make, maybe just X. But the funny thing is your musk has several other children and they all have relatively normal means, like Damian Griffin. But one of them is named XY here. So I was going to be really confusing. That word has named this X and a son named Xavier.

S11: What the hell was is BP X receiver? Her name is. So Xavier is gonna be angry because X has stolen his nickname and X is gonna be angry because Xavier has the normal name that he wishes he had.

S9: We don’t know that he hasn’t given his other children like numbers.

S20: Also, he did mostly attribute this to Grind’s when he was the Joe Rogan podcast. He said, you know, my partner mostly came with it. She’s very creative, though. He wanted the plane aspect of it. The archangel in there. But I don’t know that it was his idea initially.

S7: Have they explained why they chose age 12? The precursor to their favorite aircraft, the S.R. 71, but not S.R. 71 there.

S20: I was wondering about that, too. No, they haven’t. I guess. Well, there’s something with the twelve. It’s Grine said that the twelve is also a reference to the Chinese Europe, the RAF. Believe it or not. So maybe that’s why the S.R. 71 71 wasn’t really working.

S7: Interesting. Interesting. Interesting.

S20: What’s the baby’s last name?

S7: Must be to give the baby a fun last name. They even hyphenate the name.

S20: I thought that was Suneet too. I saw a tweet saying that they’re so futuristic and whatever this first name is. But then, yeah, they can’t even get give the baby Grind’s his last name or rhyme. Sort of doesn’t have Glasspool like a real mean.

S9: Maybe it is hyphenated. The hyphenation is invisible. He doesn’t have I mean actually that would be next level. You just have to wait like after you say masc you just wait.

S11: It’s that and um specified. Yeah. Point seven. Second pass. Incredible. Yeah. I think we can all do that. Yeah.

S4: Am I terrible for feeling like they had the baby just to name it this.

S11: No. Like the whole point of this. I believe you’re correct.

S4: This is the reason for the show.

S7: No, no. I’m sure they also love the child. It’s Heather wrote in her piece. It seems like a way to express the joy of being rich, weird and having no constraints whatsoever on your behavior. Right. And yes, it seems like not only an expression of their love, but a kind of trolling of all the rest of us. Poor saps.

S9: But do we know what’s gonna happen, like on legal documents?

S7: It’s going to get changed. Heather’s piece of notes is gonna get changed the way you will get separated and they won’t have the hyphen in the twelve. It’s just gonna be like X. E. Hey.

S11: Zero.

S20: I don’t know if they’ll have some sort of work around so they don’t end up with Xia as the name. I guess I didn’t ask if you can just have a one letter name like X, just. Just Xmas. But maybe they can do that.

S10: What’s gonna happen is that the head of the California Department of Records office and their jurisdiction is gonna get a Tesla and then they’re gonna be able to put whatever they want on the birth certificate when other celebrities have used non-traditional names.

S9: And then we see that spread into popular culture. I guess just your opinion. Do you feel like they’re gonna be like imitators of this, like other people trying to just give their baby? No.

S20: Really not sure. The name trends are interesting because sometimes a name has a big pop and popular culture moment and that makes it less popular. And I can see that happening like this, though. How can you be less popular than none?

S10: I mean, there are a certain number of like Elon Musk heads, right. Who just, like, truly think the guy’s a visionary who might think, oh, the next stage in human evolution is giving our children the names of, like, UPC codes or whatever.

S20: Yeah. That’s certainly possible.

S4: We’ll be named based on our functionality. That’s right.

S9: Well, thank you so much for joining us and unraveling this mystery, I guess. Thanks, Heather. Thank you. That’s it for this week’s Slate plus segment. So until next time.