Dino Dilemma Edition

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S1: The following podcast contains language that you probably don’t want to have to explain to your children. Listener discretion is advised.

S2: Welcome to Mom and Dad are fighting Slate’s parenting podcast for Thursday, January 21st, The Dynel Dilema Edition. And Jamilah Lemieux, a writer, cultural critic, contributor to Slate’s Caren’s Beating Parenting column, host of a TV, a new show for Slate Live. I’m not going I’m just taking a little bit of a break and a mom to the one and only Nyima who lives in Los Angeles. And I too am here as her co-star as we are.

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S3: We are all famous co-stars. I’m Dan Coates. I’m a writer at Slate and the author of the book How to Be a Family.

S2: I’m the dad of Lyra, who’s 15, and Harper, who’s 13. And we live in Arlington, Virginia. I’m Elizabeth New. Can’t I write the homeschooling family blog such that I’m the mom to three little Henry who’s eight, Oliver who’s six, and Teddy has four. And we live in Nevada. So as you may know, we record the show on Tuesday afternoons and it’s published on Thursdays.

S1: If you are in the United States like the three of us are, you know, that inauguration falls right in between that basically we recorded this in the past with the assumption and hope that there would be a smooth transition of power. And we are treating the show as such and we will leave the political coverage to slates. What’s next? Political gabfest and the gist. But for today, we are going to be keeping it light or for the very least, apolitical. Also, by the way, I am the vice president now. If you didn’t know my sorority sister, Kamala Harris, who attended the Howard University, which I also attended, is the vice president. So that means that I, too, am vice president now.

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S4: Congratulations, Madam Vice President.

S1: Thank you very much. I hope this absolves me for initially endorsing Elizabeth Warren.

S4: My sense is that means that name am the president.

S5: It is definitely the president.

S4: So let’s have an orderly transition of power around here, folks.

S1: Yes, I’d like to have an orderly transition of power in my house, like when we try to shift from playing Barbies to going to bed. But we have not been able to do that just yet. But I’ve got hope, hope for twenty, twenty one. So for the show, we don’t have political talk, but we do have a question about dinosaurs and parents with different ideas about evolution and creationism. Then we’ll answer a question about preparing kids for their first concerts, like the first concert they’ll be going to without adult supervision, which is a rite of passage then many kids will be experiencing just as soon as the world is safe again. On our Slate plus bonus segment, we’ll be discussing the best hand me downs we’ve never received and the hand me downs we are most excited to be keeping for our kids, or, as I like to call mine, the archive. And as always, we have triumphs and failures and recommendations. But first, so we got some funny emails from listeners about last week’s discussion on sir and ma’am. First of all, it seems that other languages have done a better job at working out solutions to this conundrum of gender neutral honorifics than English has. For example, there’s a suffix g as in gee whiz from Hindi, Urdu and Punjabi. It signifies respect and is gender neutral and it gets added to gender specific terms such as on like on T.G.. It can also go on someone’s name, like genealogy or danjean. It’s similar to the Japanese site. One of our non binary listeners suggested trying to sibling a gender neutral term for an aunt or uncle. Parent, sibling piddling. Never heard that before. But I love it. I love it. I haven’t heard that one before. But it’s much like nibbling. The gender neutral title for niece and nephew that has started to spread is super adorable. They also said the T can work for close friends, though I will say be careful because T t and African-American vernacular English means auntie, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it implies something specific to a lot of people here. Otherwise that’s another option for a gender neutral term for your children to use for adults in their life. Of course, there are other ways to begin a conversation and to respect other than A or Amam. There’s always the good fashioned pardon me or excuse me, but the bottom line is ask people how they want to be addressed and addressed them as such respectfully. Thank you so much for your suggestions and original letter writer. We hope that this was helpful to you as it was to us. All right.

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S6: Now let’s get into our triumphs and bills for the week then. What do you have for us? A triumph or fail, I feel like. Are you on a triumph streak for the New Year? Did I make that up?

S4: Oh, no. I’ve been on Shriram Street for a while. But unfortunately, Madam Vice President, I have a fail this week. So my fail is it’s a continuing fail that’s been going on for much of this year, much of the school year.

S3: And it is that I am just truly terrible at helping Harper with her homework with Laura. It’s like. Really easy, we just we interact well and that specific situation, she knows when she needs help and she knows how to ask for help, she really tries to figure things out on her own and sort of follows my train of thought. She knows when it’s really helpful to go back to basics the way you sometimes do. You know, like if I’m like, you know, OK, what’s the first step you should always use when factoring? Even if I’ve asked her that like ten times before, she knows it is useful to go back to her factoring flowchart and go to that very first step and work her way through it. We just sort of get each other in the setting, apparently. But with Harper it is totally different and somehow we just totally push each other’s buttons when I’m trying to help her with homework, like I feel that she just wants me to tell her the answer. She doesn’t want to work things out on her own. She feels, I think, that I’m too mean when I make her figure out an answer or that when I ask her to go back to the basics, she says, You’re treating me like I’m a fifth grader, but I’m a seventh grader. But like, you know, I’ll ask her, OK, why don’t you look back at the formula for force that you’ve learned? Do you remember what that is just like? Yes, it’s F equals M, I know that already. And just like drives her crazy when we don’t have this vibe really with other things that we’re doing. But something about homework turns into this like high tension situation and it just always ends up in either a fight or just her having her feelings hurt and me being annoyed. And it’s very frustrating to her and to me. And so now the result has been that she, you know, just clearly prefers homework help from Ali and she doesn’t want to ask me for help. And that’s clearly not fair to Dolia. It also makes me feel like a big asshole and a failure at this totally basic parenting skills. So my resolution this spring for second semester is to to work my way in there to help her with homework when I can, but also while doing it to really listen to her as much as I can and just try to figure out what it is about her learning style that is different for me and how it is that I can be most helpful to her without both of us driving each other crazy, because right now we are like oil and vinegar. But all I can say is thank God for actual teachers and thank God that I am not homeschooling because that would be a disaster.

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S7: Dan, have you asked her, like outside of the homework situation, how she would like you to help her?

S4: I have not asked for that, but that’s a great idea.

S5: She may just bring back all the bad feelings.

S4: No, I mean, it might I’ll have to really put on, like, the acting hat so I can say with a straight face, I really want to help you with your homework.

S5: Yeah. I really want to spend time with you. Yeah, that’s true.

S7: And since you do a lot of homework and I can maybe homework seems like one of your interests. Exactly. OK, well report back.

S1: OK, there are the moments where you’re reminded that your parents are human and I’m thinking about like the prospect of it even being suggested that I should help somebody with fifth or seventh grade level math. Homework is the most tarrif I think like. So this is a day in which my child is obvious for me, what she realizes as all of us, that or that you don’t need fifth and seventh grade math to survive in life.

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S3: I will say that by seventh or eighth grade, the math reverts basically back to old math, like it’s mostly the same as I learned it. Now it’s only from like I feel like kindergarten through sixth grade. Pedagogically, they’ve determined that this is the best way to set them up for like basic concepts. It’s totally alien to us. But now that they’re like factoring and stuff that there’s only one way to factor you factor the same way you always did.

S7: Yeah. Whether you’re adding by making tens and then adding all the extras or adding old math way.

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S3: Right. So there’s still hope for you, Jimmy, on YouTube.

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S7: All I’m saying is you just dismiss yourself to go do something. You YouTube it, you come back, you’re like, oh, did you know there’s this fancy math trick that I can teach you?

S1: That’s it. That’s what it is. I maybe we cut out the middleman where it’s like, look, this is why there is you like, let’s just watch this together.

S3: How much you love YouTube, kid. Here you go.

S1: You go. It’s your new homework helper. Yeah. Good luck doing that, kiddo, because you’re on your own. Listen, do you have a try for a while for us this week?

S7: I have a fail. We had a with the Martin Luther King holiday. Had a long weekend. That’s a lot of time at home. We didn’t like go camping or go do anything this weekend. So we decided we would finally try to sit everybody down to play the same board game. And just because of our ages, typically we sort of like Jeff and I will play something with Teddy and maybe Oliver’s involved in that. And then we also kind of regularly let either Oliver or Henry stay up at night and do a board game with us and. Maybe sometimes them together, but very rarely do we try to, like, sit the whole family down because of our ages. So we were like, this is it. Teddy really wanted to play ticket to Ride Junior, which is a little advanced for him. But we were like, OK, maybe if we’re on a team, it was a total disaster in ways that we could never have predicted. Like everyone was mad. Henry was mad because, like, I had to help both Oliver and Teddy. So therefore, like, I knew three of what three people were myself. That’s totally unfair. You knew a car. Totally unfair. I knew I was going not to mention like I was playing a terrible game because I was trying to just, like, not block my other two kids. Anyway, it was a giant mess. Oliver just decided he was done because I we don’t even know why he was winning and he just like, got up and left. And then Teddy just really is into, like, the colors, like he was all about playing it a great time. But then of course he doesn’t take losing well and of course he lost because he’s four. So it was just a lot like does that we won’t do that again, at least not right now. Did Jeff when Jeff did win?

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S5: Yeah. Yeah, he had a great time. I bet he had a great time. No complaints from Jeff. Now, he just sat there playing this game. Right, systematically building trains. Yeah. Yeah. You got the coast to coast today. No, no, no. Teddy got the coast to Coast Guard with my help. And I did convince him that that was sort of like winning. Oh, that’s good, though, you know, has a good one.

S7: Yeah. So in the end, you know, not a well, it was pretty much a disaster. I’m still finding Oliver’s little red trains all over because he couldn’t just leave the table. He left with a flourish of throwing his trains everywhere and then said, I’m taking myself to my room where I will read by myself. We were like, OK, wow.

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S4: Yeah, I’ve never heard of a triumph like that on. That’s incredible. It’s true that at those exact ages, it’s basically impossible to find anything like that. And honestly, like Ticketfly Junior is like the game I would recommend for that age.

S7: Yeah, I mean spambot. What are you going to do. What are you going to do. Try again. We’ll try again. I’m sure it’ll be another failed one day. It’ll be a victory.

S4: Yeah. It’s going to feel so good when it is. How about you Djamila. Try and fail.

S6: I do have a fail today. So last night I got a little frustrated because I put on my short order cook hat as often do, and allow her to order dinner and she requested turkey burgers. I said, sure, no problem. And so I had to take care of something in the other room and I come back and I see her plate. I hadn’t even made my own plate yet, but I always make sure I make her plate and let her start eating. So who doesn’t get cold? And so I come back a few minutes later and she’s, you know, she hasn’t been eating. And I said, Nyima, what’s that like? And I think this maybe already been like the second one like OK, you know, you got to eat your food, especially if you want to play Barbies afterwards, which is like life altering, like God forbid anything stop us from playing Barbie. So you would think, you know, getting the food eaten would be an important task to her, but it was not. And so I said, Mama, you know, I don’t really eat that much. I eat like once a day, I’d graze. So, like, I cook for you. I was frustrated, you know? And so I try not to complain to my child about parenting, but I do try to highlight some of the things that mothers and fathers do. And so with the food, I said, I don’t really eat very much, but I cook like three meals a day when you’re here and I’m cooking them for you and I’m cooking things that you like. And often times I’m giving you the opportunity to make a request or a suggestion. And she says, well, I didn’t ask you to cook. You don’t have to always cook. And instead of saying, well, Nyumah, it’s important that you have, you know, three healthy meals per day and snacks. I said, well, I do. It’s the law.

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S7: If I don’t feed you three times a day, plus I get in big trouble.

S1: I just left it there, and it’s all the assets and you need to you can grow. And that was it. I had no energy for nutrition and I had no nothing in me. All I had was making me cook. It’s the law, the man. Oh, yes, she ate it. Eventually, she was distressed. She wanted to play with something or, you know, there’s a lot of busy energy at dinner and I get that. But just please just eat the food.

S7: I hear it. Listen, you are I am sure, not just me, but so many people relate to this, especially when, like talking twenty four, seven is a goal.

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S1: And so to have to stop the flow of words coming out of their mouths long enough to put food inside is a challenge. And I get it. I get it. As much as I would love the piece that would come from just a few minutes of even open mouth chewing at this point. Just to get just a break from Mommy. Hi, Mommy. Mommy, mommy. Mommy, mommy. What? Just please just eat the food. I’m tired of cooking. I feel like I feel like an actual chef. I cook some. I’ve never cooked this much in my life. How, Elizabeth, how do you live this way?

S7: My husband cooks. That’s why I pack one of the meals. So at most I’m only making two meals. And then breakfast is pretty much like done to the kids can get it themselves. So yeah, our large meal is lunch and that is the meal that either Jeffri is like preparing and the other two are on their own because we also don’t typically sit down for four, three meals. So we all eat our large family lunch and then the kids get their their boxes for dinner.

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S3: So does seem like breakfast is maybe the one where you can start to make inroads here. That’s a meal that usually you can get kids to sort of make on their own if you keep it really, really simple. Are you currently spending a lot of effort on breakfast? Would it help you to get her to just like do her own bowl of cereal or whatever?

S1: Breakfast is my lowest energy meal most days. So, like, I even though I’m doing I’m still doing the bowl of cereal, like I have put them out, like made the milk accessible and the bowl of cereal like. So if she were to start, sometimes it does get out before I do because like school starts at nine, she doesn’t have to wake up at seven a.m. That’s her personal choice. And it’s not one that works for me.

S4: Oh my God.

S6: So it’s available to her some days I do give her a traditional breakfast. It’s usually it’s lunch and dinner and it’s like the lunch and dinner dishes. So have to do a better job of coming up. Things just require less skillets and less pots because there’s just so many dishes, even if you make and then like packaged for reheating because that was it for me too.

S7: It’s it’s the like mess that is made in the kitchen. That to me feels like the stressful it’s less about like actually making the food right. But even if I just make two things and make sure that one is just kind of in repeatable or put together, then it’s like I’m doing all the mess at once because I also find the lunch and dinner like they you know, because if it takes an hour to make, it’s like I just got done in the kitchen.

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S5: Yeah. And now here I have to come again to make a huge mess again. So meal prepping is just so intimate revolutionary. Exactly. You should be front with the containers that I actually did purchase because yeah.

S1: Our own meal prep containers I like even with something that she likes, like spaghetti, you know, kind of stuck between. You don’t want to keep eating the same thing. Yeah.

S4: That’s what trips me up is that I could just make the same things that are easy and don’t create much of a mess every night. And honestly my kids like them fine, but I just get so fucking bored that I can’t do it. I have to make something new and that it’s always just more messy than it should be. And but it’s worth it to me.

S8: It’s just it’s literally that it’s a wreck or a mess to clean up because of the choices. Those are the choices as well. It is what it is.

S1: Let’s talk business. Sign up for Slate’s parenting newsletter. It’s the best place to be notified about everything Slate publishes about parenting, including mom and dad are fighting, asking teacher care and feeding and much more. Plus, it’s a fun personal email from Dan in your inbox each week. Sign up at Slate Dotcom Backslash Parenting Email. Finally, if you want a place to talk to other parents, join our Facebook group. It’s super active and it’s also well moderated so it doesn’t get out of control. Just search for a slate. Parenting on Facebook.

S8: OK, let’s get to our first listener question, which is being read, as always, by the fabulous Shasha Lanard.

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S9: Dear mom and dad are fighting. Starting at about four years old, my son became obsessed with dinosaurs. My husband came from a very Christian upbringing and he believes dinosaurs were created by God, along with all other life thousands of years ago. I grew up in a non-religious household, so I believe science and that dinosaurs existed hundreds of millions of years ago. Over the past year, whenever we read books or. So many media regarding dinosaurs, my husband will censor it to say that the dinosaurs lived a long time ago rather than specify the actual number of years. That was fine when he was younger, but now that he’s over five, he’s reading books on his own and asking our Aleksa his own questions, how do I handle this with both my husband and my son? I don’t want to lie to my son, but I also don’t want to completely undermine my husband’s beliefs. My husband’s father even went so far as sending my son a pamphlet written by a Bible. Believing paleontologists is not an oxymoron about how dinosaurs are a part of creationism. I can’t in good conscience give this to my son, but I’m afraid what’s going to happen when my father in law asks him about it. What do they teach in public schools about dinosaurs and evolution? I know this is just the tip of the iceberg for differences that my husband and I will encounter with raising our children in a mixed belief household. How do I navigate all of this while maintaining a good relationship with my husband and not completely discrediting either of our core beliefs? Dinamo.

S1: All right, Elizabeth, what do you have to say to this?

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S7: So I think that there is an opportunity to not have to present the relationship between faith and science as opposing forces, and given that our letter writer is in a relationship with someone who has strong beliefs that are different than her own, she really needs to find a way to kind of model the respect of those beliefs while also explaining her own views. And I actually think that can be done with something as simple as like your dad believes X or, you know, I’m sure your dad has told you kind of what he believes. I’m inclined to believe this other thing. And here’s why. And I think that if you think about the conversation, not so much as about dinosaurs, but about laying the foundation of how you and your child are going to deal with different viewpoints in your family and kind of in the world at large, so that the goal is to have them looking at the information that’s out there and doing some critical thinking about it so you can lay out the reasons why you believe the dinosaurs and science is showing that the dinosaurs are this old. And talk about carbon dating sort of present all of those different arguments and not so much focus on censoring the material that’s coming from your husband or from your husband’s side of the family. But more as like. Well, here’s kind of my counterargument to that and leaving it there for for the kid to be making some decisions and getting some information and learning to intake information and make decisions. And I think as they come to you and ask, you can certainly say, you know, talk about what science is finding, how science works. I think, though, it’s important as we talk about this, to also understand that, like all of these things can change, like science makes discoveries all the time that redoes how we think about things. And so having that play into this argument, too, so that you’re never saying, like the thing your father thinks is silly or like that is a lie, you can present yourself as like, well, these are the facts from the place. I like to get facts. And your father, you know, presents these views about dinosaurs from the church. And that’s where he likes to go get his beliefs from. So I think there is a way to balance that and have these discussions, because this is going to be the first of many of these things that you are going to face in raising your child. And I think also having this conversation with your husband is important because it’s also important that when he’s explaining his views, that he doesn’t undercut your views either. So I think trying to find that balance and explaining everything and setting the groundwork of what are these things, I’m telling you based on where do I get my information?

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S3: Like this is a way to say that you’re right, Elizabeth, that this is only the first of many, many times that your husband and you are going to disagree about this science faith divide, which I truly think it is, honestly. And the letter writer acknowledges that, which I think is also good here. It’s clear that, you know, that this is something that’s coming up. I also think this is probably the most low stakes version of this conversation or of this disagreement that you’re probably ever going to have. I don’t know the specifics of your husband’s beliefs, but certainly in plenty of families where one person puts a lot of faith in the church on scientific matters and one doesn’t, there are disagreements about vaccination. There are disagreements about lots of things that are a lot heavier and a much bigger deal than how long ago dinosaurs are on the Earth. I think that actually doesn’t affect us in any way right now. It doesn’t hurt anyone in the real world. And so, yes, you need to start figuring out what is the way you’re going to be talking about these differences in a way that is respectful and in a way that makes it clear that it’s totally OK to respectfully disagree with other people, even in your family, about things that don’t hurt other people. It is interesting to me that I hear. In this letter, a desire to be respectful of your husband’s beliefs, but also a clear desire that you do not actually want your child to grow up sharing those beliefs, and that is going to be the very difficult thing to navigate. And that, I think, is going to be where the sticking point is, because you can talk all you want, as Elizabeth suggests, about presenting your beliefs and your husband, presenting his beliefs and letting the child use their critical thinking to figure it out. But you should also decide what, if anything, you’re going to do if the child uses his critical thinking to figure it out and decides that dinosaurs were born two thousand three hundred and seventy eight years ago, the same day as Adam and Eve like. So what do you do then? And you should be prepared for that eventuality because it’s totally possible that it will happen. And you need to decide whether you’re going to be fine with that and let it go, because that is a system of belief that millions of people in the world abide by or whether you won’t be able to abide by that. And and if so, what happens then?

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S1: I’m with both Elizabeth and I think that it is important that you are presenting both of these dissenting opinions to your child as opinions that are held by people that he loves dearly, that are very different, and that these two people have learned to love each other despite having these very different views on essentially how the world was created and have found love despite having those views their entire lives. And I think that’s an example of something very positive that you can share. But as Dan said, there is the issue that you want very badly for your son not to share his father’s core beliefs. And that is a pretty tricky thing to ask when you are still in a loving relationship with this person. This isn’t somebody who is no longer in the house with whom there is some sort of contentious element and perhaps they’ve embraced something that’s dangerous. Right. This is somebody who you love and see to be a sensible person who simply believes something very different than what you do. I think the best way to have your son pick your side is to make a compelling argument for it while being respectful of his father and his family’s religious beliefs, making a, you know, concise, compelling argument that brings together what you believe to be factual information and providing him access to that information consistently. And if there are other views that perhaps your husband’s family holds that are more problematic in relation to their religion, which is a possibility, I’m not saying that it’s a likelihood, but it’s certainly possible. I would suggest concentrating your energy on debunking that and that their take on the creation story might not be the biggest fight worth having in your family.

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S4: I want to just highlight one thing that Elizabeth said before, which I want to make sure it doesn’t get lost, which I do think is crucial to this.

S3: If your goal is to maintain a respectful relationship with your husband and his beliefs and if his goal is to maintain a respectful relationship with you and yours, which is that the censoring on either side can’t really work, that can’t be a part of it. He can’t be censoring books about dinosaurs and you can’t be hiding that weird shit that your father in law says. You just got to let that stuff go through in a case like this and make that just part of the information that he is getting that supports either side of this question. If your husband wants to just not read him the books about dinosaurs because he doesn’t like the book that says the dinosaurs lived hundreds of millions of years ago, that’s a choice he can make. I urge him to reconsider that choice because the kid is just going to ask for the dinosaur book one hundred thousand fucking times. And if he really wants to stand by, not reading it. OK, buddy. But Elizabeth is right that for this to work. You are not responsible for providing your husband’s side of this debate and he’s not responsible for providing yours, but neither of you can be censoring the other one side of the debate. You can’t be downplaying it or pooh poohing it or making fun of it or not allowing your child to see it like it’s not that’s not going to work.

S7: But you can provide your answers to it. Like if. Sure, if you provide if you guys look at the pamphlet, I think it’s well within to be able to say, like, well, this is why I don’t find this compelling.

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S3: Right. Going back to your concern that your hope that your child, you know, ends up seeing things your way, probably public school is going to be your friend in this case. So for about 13 or 14 years are a couple of researchers at Penn State who’ve been doing this, I think every couple of years, survey of public school science teachers asking them how they teach evolution and in what context evolution and creationism get raised in the classroom. And the numbers have actually gone way up. So in 2007, when they first of the study, only fifty one percent of high school science teachers reported that they taught evolution has settled science and all the rest were doing either some combination of evolution and creationism and basically presenting them as equal or only talking about creationism or just not talking about it at all because they didn’t even want to get into that shit. Anyways, that number is up to 67 percent. Now, 17 percent of teachers do still teach creationism as a viable alternative to evolution in public schools. I think it really depends on where you are. It depends on often on whether you’re in a city versus someplace smaller. This is in public schools. Private schools have their own styles. Plenty of religious private schools are very creationism heavy still. But, you know, it doesn’t always turn out the way you might think. It turned out when we moved to Kansas, I was honestly pretty worried about this. There were huge creationism versus evolution debates in Kansas schools and the early 2000s, right about the time that this study started being done. We had people joked to us when we were about to leave, oh, enjoy learning about creationism in schools, kids, as it happened, that wasn’t the case at all. Our town’s curriculum, the state curriculum in science, was totally science focused and didn’t really mention creationism at all. And a large part that was because of a local teacher from Hayes who’d gotten herself out of the state school board running out of pro science platform in response to the creationism debates that had happened about 15 years before. It’s not necessarily that if you live in a place that is very religious, that you’re necessarily going to get creationism in public schools. Maybe you will or maybe you won’t. It’s worth it to ask your child’s teachers how they handle this material. It’s worth it if this is important to you, to urge them to focus on science as much as the curriculum allows them to. But often they’re at the mercy of their textbooks and the curriculum that the state or their local school board is set. So that may or may not help your cause in more cases than not. It will help you with your cause, though.

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S7: I want to say to you that I earnestly believe that there is like a way forward in which this child chooses, like some of both parents to take forward. And certainly as you get older, there’s plenty of there are plenty of scientists who believe in God in different ways. You know, I think this dinosaur thing is like so focused on this date that it seems sort of silly to be the hill that many people want to sort of Diann, about all of this. But I think there is a path forward so long as you stay respectful about things and continue to like just present information and letting them find a way. So I don’t think, particularly with this dinosaur thing, that either parent should feel like this is an all or nothing like if my child chooses to believe this way or gets all this information that that has set a path forever for every belief, I think there is a lot of ground in the middle where you can accept what science offers and also accept God like. I think there is a place for that. So here is kind of like your first test of that water.

S4: It is funny to me that there’s a little like little piece of information buried in this letter, which I think maybe will render all of this moot, which is that in the end, what’s going to happen in this family is that the dad is going to say one thing and the mom is going to say the other thing. But the kid won’t care about either of those. The kid will just go by whatever Alexa says. Yeah, whatever Alexa says about dinosaurs, that’s what the kid will believe is true. So you should check what Alexa says about dinosaurs.

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S1: I think that is the very, very real possibility. The first time you have to argue against something your child has read on the Internet. It is a it is an experience that you will not forget, and it’s something you’ll be doing for the rest of your life, just as you have to argue with your parents about things that they read on the Internet. Good luck to you. Thank you so much for writing in letter writer. Hope that was helpful. Please keep us posted. We really, really do love updates. And even though I think this is an update that will kind of be going on for the rest of your child’s life, but if you have any anecdotes, we are certainly all ears. And if anyone else has a problem or a concern that they like for us to consider on this show, send us an email mom and dad at Slate dot com. And now we’re going to get into our second listener question of the week being read once more by the extraordinary Shasha Lanard.

S9: Dear mom and dad, my 14 year old daughter and her friend are going to their first concert at the Hard Rock Cafe in October. Assuming the pandemic has passed, how can I help them have a blast while still staying safe? It’s a new, potentially risky situation and she’s experiencing it alone. So I’m nervous. What should I tell her, how should I prepare her? What should I be looking at to know she’s ready for the responsibility of this experience?

S1: OK, first I need to know and you can totally send us this privately. Holst’s is your 14 year old going to see you perform at the Hard Rock Cafe? Are you are you like white me or are you raising because I’m raising a new addition. Bobby Brown, obsessed child. So are you raising a 14 year old that’s obsessed with Phish or Hootie and the Blowfish? I need to know. I’m going to Google and find out. Those are the two white bands. Yes. No, they’re the two bands that I place in the moment in history in which I feel the Hard Rock Cafe was actually relevant. That’s what got me. So I would have put the Spice Girls in that category, too.

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S4: But I don’t think they’d be playing a little Hard Rock Cafe and now they’d be at Wembley Arena for tonight’s. Yes. Unfortunately, we don’t know who the band is. I really wanted to write back to this person to ask who the band was, but it turned out that they posted this as a question on Facebook. Rosie grabbed it for the show and then I accidentally deleted it without posting it because the Facebook UI is so bad. So sorry. Letter writer. No. What else besides us ever saw this question? But we are here to address it and try and solve it for you. I also really want to know who the band is. I also think that has a lot to do with what the vibe might be like at this show. But probably the Hard Rock Cafe, it’s going to be not it’s not going to be a lot of punks or horrible people. It’s not gonna be like the the hardest edged up shows. So first thing I want to tell you, a letter writer, I think this kid is totally going to be fine. You worried in your letter that she’s going to be there alone. But I just wanna remind you that she is not there alone. First of all, she’s there with a friend. Second of all, she’s there with a phone, maybe even more important than being there with a friend so she can use that phone if anything goes wrong. So already she is two steps ahead of, for example, me in nineteen eighty seven roaming Summerfest by myself and watching Sigmon stop hexing inappropriate songs about blowjobs on the comedy stage. So like that will not be happening to your daughter. You’re driving her there, presumably you’re picking her up. Presumably the amount of time that she’ll be on her own is minuscule. So I would say that step one is relax a little and breathe. I believe that your child will get through this just fine. There are things that are worth it to talk to her about, and they’re probably extensions of conversations that you’ve already been having with her for some time, maybe with some concert oriented specifics thrown in. I’m sure you have already talked to her a lot about drawing clear boundaries with other people and about how to respond if other people are pushing those boundaries. You probably have talked to her a lot about when you were out with a friend, how you and your friend are support for each other and buddies for each other. And you stick together and you keep an eye on each other. Maybe you haven’t yet talked to her about keeping an eye on your drink, but maybe now’s the time to start having that conversation. What other things do you think she should be talking to her daughter about before the show?

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S7: So I kind of assume that she must trust her daughter like quite a bit to decide that she could go without a chaperone and like you said, has already thought about this. But I was just walking through, like, all of the things that maybe haven’t come up at, like a house party or something else maybe they’ve been to. But specifically things like when you go to the bathroom, how you and your friend are to behave, that you should never be separated from your friends. So if one of you is going to go somewhere, you should both go like just those sort of things that in a more familiar environment, you might not need, like, that level of just walking through and details. And I think it’s important, too, that you have a conversation about your expectations and not in the sense of like these are the rules, but like I will be here for you and you can call me at any point and I will come get you right. You don’t have to explain anything to me. I am here for you. Like setting up those things that should her and her friend make a bad choice or something bad happen to them, that you will be there and it will not be assigned to them as like this. I don’t want to call my parents to get me out of this. Like I trust you to go to this. But I also know, like, I know you’re fourteen and I know this is a big deal and I’m here for you.

S1: I think that’s huge. I think the idea that if something you know, if something bad happens, it’s something scary happens, that you’re more focused on problem solving, which is going to involve one of your parents as opposed to protecting yourself and what you think your punishment might be, especially because a situation like that, while it’s more likely that things will go just fine if something were to happen untoward at a concert, that is a situation in which your child could be completely blameless and just simply was there. I think Dan Elísabet did a great job of checking the typical boxes for concerns. Right, because they’re much like other social gatherings thinking about your drinks. Think about what you eat. You know, it concerns people sell edible marijuana, you should talk about that. And also, of course, you’re discouraging your 14 year old from buying, you know, even something that looks packaged and respectfully made, but that it’s somebody who’s carrying brownies in her knapsack that she made herself. Even if you were curious, you have no way of knowing what’s in there and how safe she is, how clean she is and what those brownies definitely if you buy them, you should bring in extra work. If you do, just to buy the only, just buy the one and give it to me. But no, I think one distinct difference between concerts and other social activities is the age difference all ages show means literally people of all ages. There could be people who are there with their children. There are likely to be other 14 year olds there. You have to be incredibly mindful that social interactions between kids and adults are not something that should be taking place outside of the context of your family and your community and spaces in which you may chit chat with a guy in your neighborhood because you and your father see him on walks. You may have a woman in your church who is almost like a friend because you talk you all have banter about a shared interest in a rock band or something. But when you’re out at a concert, you’re not collecting adult friends. And you do have to be particularly mindful of men, regardless of what your your daughter’s own orientation is, who are interested in very young girls and women that are interested in very young girls, too. I don’t want to erase the ability of women to be predatory because it is certainly there. But they need to be mindful of adults who do that, but be mindful of them.

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S5: Like, you know, that men have a particular thing with teenage girls.

S1: And I don’t know if you’re how your daughter presents, if she’s wearing makeup. Men know the difference between a 14 year old in makeup and a 14 year old without makeup. As much as I like to pretend otherwise, but it’s just I think of my first concerts, I might have been 15 or 16 years old. My first concert, it was Maxwell or Scott Steinweiss, about the same time in my junior year in high school, junior senior year. And I know that our first concert without Paris concert without parents. And we were dropped off and this was a big theater. There were cell phones among us. I don’t think everybody has cell phone, but like in the crowd, there were cell phones. So pick up and drop. I was very coordinated. I know that I ran my silly ass backstage at the Maxwell concert and I don’t know what I thought was going to happen. I don’t know what, like, did I want to hug him? Did I want to meet him? I don’t know. Something just came over me and I bolted. Ran. Right. Maybe it’s just the idea, the I don’t know. But I ran and so and I got back there and this lady who I thought was a hater and now I realize was a responsible adult, you know, got me back out of there. But there are a lot of guys in the music industry that are interested in young women, and a lot of them have adjacency to bands and musicians. Right. They are around. I know a lot of stories. And you want to be careful of that so that your daughter is not looking for an autograph or. Right. Or waiting in the if that’s something that she wants to do, then that’s something that I think if we’re a team her parents should be there for, you know, and this isn’t all just concert. If she’s able to get in, you can come. You won’t be the only grown up there. You know, perhaps if you all agree that her and her friend will have their time in the concerts themselves. So in a venue like that, you can be there and not be in her space.

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S4: You know, like you can be you could be in enjoying an eighteen dollar.

S1: Marguerita, I was going to totally bring a book and have a cocktail and relax and feel comfortable knowing that if something were to happen that you were right and that the likelihood of extended adult interaction with your child. Because I think honestly, beyond having a drink spiked, which is also something that’s more likely to come from, I think, an adult interaction than one with another 14 year old at this point. But the ability for adult interaction and a place in which we are now peers, we are here together as music lovers, you know, so I’m quite naturally just talking to you or, you know, or the boy who looks like a college boy or, you know, talk about no whatever she’s interested in. Boys are interested in girls. Talk to her. I mean, there’s the men conversation, but there’s also the don’t assume because somebody tells you that they’re your same age, they’re actually your age. You have you should have a pretty clear idea for a teen, what, at seventeen or eighteen year old looks like versus the fourteen or fifteen year old versus twenty twenty nine year old. And to be wise, I want you to go to the concert is what I’m telling you.

S4: But despite Jamila’s many horrible possibilities that she has presented here, I still think this will be fine. And also this has made me very nostalgic for the era of going to concerts. Jamelia first one was Maxwell or maybe Jill Scott. Elizabeth, what was yours? Indigo Girls. Oh, yeah. Classic Georgia Opera. Yeah. Yeah. How old are you? The new girls.

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S7: I would have been like a senior in high school. I went to a small high school, but with half of my high school there, you know, it felt like an extension. I don’t think we had a lot of this because I was never leaving my group. Like, that’s kind of what I remember about going to concerts. Was it being more of like a a group experience with a larger group such that I saw someone coming into the group would have been like alert from the entire group. Right. Like, why is this person in our in our space?

S1: We did a lot of things in enlarger. We roll. Yeah. That was and telling us too I think until especially with girls I think until the point where it becomes an issue to get in the places because there’s too many of you like. Right. That is the way to roll.

S4: My first one without parents was in excess at Summer Fest in nineteen eighty five. I was ten. I went with my older brother. Oh wow.

S10: I was going to say nineteen eighty five Dan like yeah I mean that was a baby but so that was a memorable show because there was a gigantic thunderstorm with a tornado warnings and the concert was completely washed out and the summer house grounds were flooded and we just ran around the park like in the dark. The power was out just shoving each other into lakes and we were totally fine. Just like this lady’s kid will also be fine.

S7: I do think she’s going to be totally fine. And I think it’s such a good experience. I do air on the side of like Dumela. I, I as a parent would want to be close. So even not if at the concert like like, hey, I’m just going to go do this other thing in the area so that I could be there to respond if something happened again, I don’t think anything’s going to happen.

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S4: But having never been a teenage girl to concert, I think it’ll be fine. But I will I will yield to your guys superior knowledge on this.

S7: Yeah. I also would feel better knowing that my parents trusted me to go, but also that my parents or somebody or a trusted adult was not too far, you know.

S4: Yeah. Oh, here’s the one non-negotiable point you should make, I think, which is that your child should wear earplugs.

S5: Yes.

S4: I wrote down earplugs to at the concert and now my hearing sucks as a result. Wear make her wear earplugs I would add.

S1: If your child has a crush on any of the artists who are performing, you should be there for the let out like that moment in which it might be.

S10: You’ll have you’ll have picked the kid out.

S5: I think we’re going to go. Yeah, yeah. Make sure you don’t stick up.

S1: Don’t let them stick around for let it come up at the end of the show up early. Don’t don’t let them be prepared to wait.

S10: Wouldn’t you enjoy a concert at the Hard Rock Cafe to my.

S1: And I want I’ll go. If this isn’t L.A., do you have one.

S10: You can’t wait to see Phish. And who do you double.

S1: Gladly, gladly attend and supervise. You just let us know. Thank you so much, letter writer. Congratulations to your child and hopefully you for getting to go to a concert I think that I dream of often at night. Keep us posted. Let us know how it goes. We might be there. I’ve been looking I know Adam Sandler has some dates booked, but I’m trying to figure out what’s going on at the Hard Rock Cafe and which one I might pull up to. We maybe will have a mom and dad are fighting live reunion show at the Hard Rock concert with our fish sandwiches. Thank you for writing. If you have a question for us fellow listeners, don’t forget because it’s an email at mom and dad. It’s late dot com or you could do it, this listener did. And post it to this late parenting Facebook group.

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S5: Hopefully Dan will not will not delete it. It the deleted just.

S4: No, it wasn’t me because I’m it’s a really fix this so shitty. I’m really for the last.

S1: We we rescued your question. OK, so before we get out of here, we’re going to do our recommendations for the week. Elizabeth, let’s start with you. What are you enthusiastically endorsing this week?

S7: I like these. They’re called warmings and they’re beautiful stuffed animals. And my kids got them for Christmas. And honestly, I was kind of like they have been so great. They go in the microwave and they get warm but not too warm. And you can I feel like I should have gotten one. Actually, you can put them down. You can put them in the bed. It makes the bed kind of warm. But also we’ve been like taking them out hiking and stuff and just warming them before we go and then putting them in the stroller and putting them in the kids beds. They stay warm for a really long time and they smell kind of like lavender and they come in every adorably, you know, stupid animal you can ever think of. Oliver got a pig and he named it bacon.

S4: So we also had a stuffed pig name, Bacon.

S5: When the kids are grown up because it goes in the microwave, it’s like the best.

S7: So anyway, they’re they’re called warmings. They’re really lovely. And they have really been helping in our in the cold snap we’re experiencing here in four.

S4: I heard about that. My dad emailed me and it was like it is fifty five degrees freezing so I could use one of those babies.

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S1: And where are you recommending.

S10: I’m recommending a game, Elizabeth, do not play this with your whole family, it would be an enormous disaster. You may remember from a couple of weeks ago my story of the failures of playing pandemic and how I learned from that, not to teach try to teach my kids a game that seemed way too complicated. So for Christmas, I got Olia, a game called Wingspan, which is about birds. And the reason I got it for her is because Alyea, because she’s old now, like me, likes birds. Suddenly, just a couple of years ago, it just came on her like a fever, something. She was like, we should we should get bird feeders. I love birds. And then almost immediately afterwards, she found like a meme on Facebook that was like saying your old No. One, you love birds all of a sudden. But anyways, she loves birds now. So I got into this game called Wingspan, which is enormously complicated. But Harper and I sat down last weekend and taught ourselves the game. We sort of went through the rules and the example game and it took us like an hour to figure it out. But we figured it out. What?

S5: This went fine where I was just about how it was OK.

S10: It went great. We had the greatest time. I have no fucking idea how, but so we figured out Wingspan. So then we could teach it to everyone else in the family. And it is a slow and very complicated game, but yet one that all the kids have been able to figure out and understand and enjoy. And it’s a deliberately paced game in which you have a nature preserve and you were trying to fill it with the most beautiful, interesting birds you can. It takes like an hour and a half to play, and we really love it. Lyra thinks it’s boring. The other three of us really love it. And I just find it sweet and very chill and and no one cares who wins at the end because you all have these beautiful birds. You’ve learned a little bit about birds. There’s a little bird house that you built that you put the dice in to roll them. It’s the cutest thing. It’s like this game cost like sixty fucking is so expensive. But it is. It’s great. I love it. Anyways, it’s called Wingspan. If upon hearing me describe it, you were like, I love it, I want it. You will love this game. If upon hearing me describe it, you were like, what the fuck is this stupid game? Don’t don’t buy it, you’ll hate it.

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S1: I admire your commitment to continue investing in expensive games, knowing that your track, even though the track record seems to be turning around.

S10: I mean, we still have that other game sitting in the closet, possibly never to be played, plus pandemic, which will never play again.

S1: Yeah, OK. Well, I have this isn’t my first Trader Joe’s recommendation and I think that apparently my last one was like wildly popular, the drinking chocolate. It was just like super hard to find. I didn’t know it was like a cult item or some sort, I guess. But I think I’ve discovered what the next big Trader Joe’s thing is going to be. And it is the gluten free cinnamon coffee cake muffins. They are not healthy. They are healthy, but they are so good they do not have that dust taste that gluten free baked goods so often are marred by a tiny little touch of it. But it is completely consumed by the sour cream, cinnamon and brown sugar that make these muffins so moist and so delicious. They really are. I mean, muffins are just cake in denial, which is fine with me because I think that cupcakes are oftentimes just gratuitously sweet without the icing. But I’m telling you, these are so yummy. Like, Nyima loves them. I love them. They’re delicious. I’ve got two packages just in case after we went through the first one for fear that everyone’s going to fall in love with them, I’ll just never see them again. But they’re really, really, really, really, really good. Yum. Yes. Trader Joe’s gluten free cinnamon coffee cake muffins. I’m committed to, like, making very unhealthy suggestions. I think it’s the key lime pie is spreading. I appreciate that every so often that I do go on Facebook, somebody in the Facebook group has made the key lime pie and posted a picture of it.

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S4: Beautiful picture of key lime pie, a post with the Facebook group. It makes me a real highlight of the Facebook.

S1: Yes, I love that. That’s the best thing about going on Facebook every six weeks. So please keep tagging me and your key lime pie pages. I never want to get back to my pre pandemic weight. Really?

S11: OK, well, that is our show one last time. If you need parenting advice, email us at Mom and Dad. Is that. Com or post it to the parenting slash key lime pie Facebook group. Just search for slate parenting. And also if you haven’t already, please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform or when I up on all of them. Why not. It helps us out and make sure you won’t miss a single episode. And while. You’re at it, tell your friends about the show, please appreciate it. Mom and Dad are fighting is produced by Rosemarie Bellson, Gentamicin senior managing producer, and Lisa Montgomery is executive producer of Slate podcasts. Gabriel Roth is Slate’s editorial director of audio for Dan Course and the new camp. Hi, Jimmy. Love you. What’s that? One time, but never again like to keep them. I have to keep everybody guessing.

S1: Just the one that hello Slate. Plus the listeners. Thank you so, so much for all of your support. We certainly couldn’t do the show without you. This week we’re going to talk about hand me downs. Did you all get clothes passed down to you? And if so, from whom? Where they from your parents?

S12: Were they from perhaps just older siblings, somebody who just outgrown them, where these vintage items and most importantly, were the clothes stylish? So I was interested in us having this conversation because I am, I guess, recently become very excited about the fact that I’m saving clothes for my daughter.

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S4: Your clothes from when you were a certain age that you watch your daughter or about the clothes that I could wear ostensibly right now.

S12: So this is my clothes that I’ve owned. Some of the things that are in the archives. I’m looking at them there, too. So those big plastic bins full at this point. Some of these are things that I own for a few years that I’ve retired. And I thought, you know what, you know, is this a goodwill thing or is this something that I think mama might love or enjoy one day? And some of these are things that are more recent, but nothing is older, I think, than she is. And when I was growing up, my mom, you know, we lived in an apartment. We didn’t have a ton of storage space. I was born in nineteen eighty four. And by the time I got to high school or middle school, I should say, and was kind of digging through my mother’s closet, even though we weren’t quite the same, quite, exactly the same size. We were close enough for a while and I started digging through clothes that she’d had from, you know, 70s and pieces that she’d had maybe from the early 80s before I was born. And some of them were really cute and fun and very on trend. The 70s resurgence happened and the things that that I wore and I loved it. And I realize anyone humanised at this point, our styles are not identical. But she does like my clothes and they’re just in pieces that I think that if, you know, whether they’re on trend or not that I loved, you know, they’re not necessarily all designer or terribly expensive, most of my clothes and how expensive, but just dresses and things that I think one day she might like to have or even if she doesn’t want to wear them, that she can put them on and step into a time capsule of sorts. And you know, where her mind was closed, I don’t know something about that just seems super cool to me. And I think of people I know one tradition that’s particularly big with I think of African-Americans in general and a lot of it being families who came to places like Chicago or California via the Great Migration, particularly Chicago, is the handing down of fur coats. That’s like a very big thing. And that’s not something that was handed down to me or that, you know, my mother got from her mother. But I have a fur. I have one real fur and I have a few fluffers, but I have one faux fur that I’ve retired. That is part of my collection for Niam. And I look forward to handing them my furs. And I just I don’t know the idea of just all the women I’ve known who’ve got to wear their mothers are they’re great on their, you know, their grandmothers clothing. It’s just something that was a source of a lot of pride.

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S1: So I think it’s something that could be cool for her and maybe even her children someday. So what about you all? Did you get family hand-me-down? Did you get any super cool vintage pieces? And are you keeping any clothes for your children?

S7: So I wore my mother’s wedding gown, which was always also my grandmother’s wedding gown. So that was handed down. And then all three of us wear that, which is kind of cool. And then I also got like a mink stole. That was my grandmother’s. And then she had a sister who never married. So Aunt Grace gave her to my sister. So those are sort of the hammy downs we got. My mom had a ton of clothes that she kind of kept around the house, but all of it ended up like as dress up. Or then later when she was in law school, she made all of her own clothes and we wore a lot of that to like dress up days at school, you know, like Jackie Day or things like that. I’m sorry, Mom, but so a lot of it got repurposed that way. But I didn’t keep any of that. But I also have this, like, because we moved so much. Keeping things is very complicated because I never know what our next house is going to be like or like what our storage is. So and also I have boys. So now it’s like, well, what clothes kind of items can we hand down? Jeff’s parents saved his NASA space suit from when he went to space camp. And we have that and the boys wear it for dress up. But I, I agree with you that there is this like even when I think. Talk about the clothes we used as dress up, it was super cool to think like, well, my mom made this when she was in law school and like, she picked out this fabric and just like that, thinking about those sort of things in the story that it tells and the time that it comes from, I haven’t really decided about keeping stuff for my kids. We picked up some things in the Netherlands, like some toys and things that are like handmade and quintessentially Dutch that I would like to hang on to. But I also, on the flip side, like, see the bird now my parents are cleaning out of just like they kept our doll houses and we don’t have girls. And my boys got one in the Netherlands, so, like, we don’t need one. And then the same, like we have these American girl dolls, like these things that we held on to but now are sort of like burdened by them in some sense of like, well, they’re special and we kept them for all this time. So how do we pass them on or who do we pass them on to in a way that is meaningful?

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S1: What about you then?

S4: We have a whole closet full of like all year old homecoming dresses and prom dresses and her mom’s debutante dress. But they have always been exclusively for dress up like they’re not things that the kids have, like, worn out or even I think would consider wearing out, in part because, you know, like the homecoming dresses are extremely 90s and are not maybe maybe they’ll be in fashion at some point, but they’re not quite there yet.

S10: But we’ve loved having them for dress up this Christmas. We did like a funny formal dinner where everyone just wore like the most formal stuff they could find and went totally over the top. So Alea wore like a fascinator, like people where Prince Princess Diana’s wedding and the kids were. So Liara wore Aliya’s old homecoming dress to that. No one can wear Maggie’s old debutante dress. Everyone would have to have like seven ribs removed to fit that thing on. But the thing that has been passed down that I think is most special to my kids is not something from someone’s childhood, but something for someone’s adulthood, which is their grandfather’s old flannel shirts. So Aliya’s dad died a couple of years ago. Lyra asked for a couple of his old flannel shirts. And, you know, she’s exactly the age and the kind of kid who just positively loves to swim in an oversized, like, men’s flannel shirt where you can’t see her body at all. It’s like perfect teenager behavior. And so she wears the shirt all the time. And I think it is very moving and meaningful to Olia to see her wearing this thing. And I think Harper will eventually get that shirt. And so that has been really like special to them. And I like the idea that that thing is going to make its way down the line at some point. The Hamiltons that have been most useful to us have not come from family, but have come from neighbors. And it’s been sportstalk every pair of cleats that we got from our next door neighbors, the belts who have kids just a little older than our kids, every softball glove, every pair of basketball high tops, we have saved hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars from just like getting those things just when Sidney grew out of them and then Lyra and that after she retired from sports, Harper could have them. That’s been so great. And then we have done our best to get those to the next kids down the line in the neighborhood who could use them.

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S7: The hand down stuff like that is like the best. I mean, we had a ton of that stuff. We got to being in the kind of military community, got a lot of hand-me-down clothes as kids, and I was able to pass a lot of those on. But I did take like my favorite of the baby clothes and have them made into, like, very small stuffed animals, the kids name embroidered so that I can hopefully it seemed like easier to hold on to a small thing made of patches of their clothes than a bunch of clothes that maybe they wouldn’t want.

S4: And so it’s like an animal.

S5: It’s like they used to wear. Yeah.

S3: Is it a small stuffed.

S7: It’s pretty well. No one is a monkey, one is a lion and one is an elephant I think.

S5: Are you worried that these things are you’ve essentially created voodoo basically which I’m going to give to their children now seems dangerous.

S7: Just if they’re all close, they’re very cute and they sit out on a shelf and they’re meaningful to me in a smaller form than like I think I can get by taking them from house to house because I’m like, oh, it’s a decoration. Right. Right.

S13: Name is that his father passed away, oh, ten years ago this summer and he often wears clothes that belonged to his father. So I think that’s a really lovely way of honoring him and something that he’ll be able to pass down to his little ones. So I am a fan of I don’t know. I think it’s I just think it’s cool. I wish that I had things that belonged to my grandparents. I have like a little trinkets and stuff. I wish I had their clothes and, you know, purses and things that they carry, like the idea of having that with you throughout the day is pretty cool.

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S3: So I guess I need to do some research into, like, how to also, like, keep these clothes so that they are in good shape because, you know, sometimes that’s part of it, too, is that all the stuff we buy now comes from H and M or whatever, and it’s designed to essentially fall apart. That’s just designed to disintegrate in two years. And so, like stuff that our grandparents were in the 40s or even stuff that and my father in law bought in the 70s or 80s like that, is much more likely to make it to the next generation than anything that I’m purchasing and wearing myself.

S7: I think it’s interesting that you want clothes, but clothes are so important to you. I think about like, how do I try to predict that, you know what I mean? And it seems like like the things that we want are not necessarily the things that people may have saved it. Just every time I think about saving things, because I think about it literally every three years when we move, I think, like, is this worth saving in? Each of my kids has a small box that I think is manageable. And I go through there and say, like, well, which of this are they going to want to look at in the future? But it’s I just find like it’s so hard to predict because I, of course, don’t know who they will be or what position they’ll be in or what they wish to have. So I’m I’m trying to leave a hodgepodge of something.

S13: And the really good part is that when we pass along, our children will receive all of our things. You know, whatever we have left will be, you know, whether we’ve left instructions on how we wanna divide it up or it’s just there for them to sort through, which is kind of girl but happens. But that I think with the clothes specifically, I don’t know. I think it’s. Because I know, like my other thing, like my books and things that I’ve written, which is a unique advantage that we all have, right, that we’re leaving written documentation about who we were and things that we were interested in and a written record of our lives. But like in many ways, as I guess everybody is thanks to social media on some level. But like I think with the clothes is I feel like it shows you a little bit of something about like how your hair person was in the world, you know, like even though it doesn’t tell a whole story. And so I think that’s sort of like, yeah, if you have you know, and of course, there’s other things that you can wear like a necklace or, you know, another piece of jewelry or carrying like a wallet or, you know, something that you could put in a purse or a briefcase. The idea of having something that stays with you or that can go with you. But I think something about wearing something I don’t know, maybe I need to do some research into, like what is it about wearing somebody? Like what does that symbolize or mean?

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S7: Because for me, it just kind of feels something there, as you say, oh, this is so funny because I actually use my grandmother’s wedding ring and it didn’t even occur to me. But I do a lot of times, like when I touch it or feel it, feel sort of like, OK, Grandma, you know, like that sense of having this person with me all the time.

S4: Yeah. You trapped your grandmother’s soul.

S7: And what I did, I use one of those voodoo doll brushes. Yes. And I just carry it around with me.

S4: My real legacy that I’ll be leaving to my children is 10 years of mom and dad are fighting so that they’ll have to listen to.

S13: When they’re like 75, that is very true, I didn’t even think about it at some point they’ll just come real, the compulsion to consume all of your parents content because they’re they’re not here anymore or they’re very old. I love that.

S7: But I think forever after people in your family can come to you for parenting advice, when I’m off the clock, I don’t give parenting advice.

S5: But I’m saying maybe you’re right. This is your culture. They can search through life one out search. Yeah, well, I wouldn’t have done your whole forever. Like, let’s just ask Dan.

S10: I love it better than Alexa.

S1: Yeah, I love. There you go. Well, listeners, we’re curious to know if they’re any cool things that you’re saving for your kids, if there’s anything you want to share. Shoot us a note. Mom and dad at Slate Dotcom or I started to read about it in the Facebook group, even though many of your friends won’t have heard this segment because they aren’t Slate plus subscribers. And that sucks.

S4: Definitely tell them how great I was and how. Geez, it’s too bad he didn’t hear this. Amazing.

S1: Too bad you missed out on all this fun. You can drop them a link to this and say you can’t have this if you subscribe to Slate. Plus dangled that carrot, dangle it. You have a great week. Thank you for your support and we will talk to you next time.