Backstage During the Scaramucci Redemption Tour

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S1: I know that Alabama was in the original forecast. They thought it would get it as a piece of it. It was supposed to go actually we have a better map than that which is going to be presented where we had many lines going directly many models each line being a model and they were going directly through and in all cases. Alabama was hit.

S2: I feel sorry for the press. And that is not the way we should feel about the most powerful figure in this country.

S3: The US president has never before done a thing even remotely like what President Trump did tonight in the context of this storm. And so I don’t even know what would count as relevant historical context here. If I tried to make up that story.

S4: Hello and welcome to Trump cast I’m Virginia Heffernan My guest today is Anthony Scaramucci as some of you may remember Anthony served as the White House director of communications from July 21st to July 30 1st 2017 depending on whether you count the 21st as a whole work day. You know how that’s usually the day you look get your desk see where the copier is anyway. That means it was. It was a short time so he was a made fly. And as a man who prides himself on his hot blood his alpha male status as he calls it and his passion Scaramouche he would probably rather burn out Than fade away. But it seems he’s done neither. Having had a change of heart about Trump whom he used to vociferously defend Scaramouche he is back making the rounds on cable TV and op ed pages in the Hamptons on his own podcast on Twitter and now on Trump cast. So while I have him on. Does this just amplify the voice of another blowhard Trump by trying to extend his 15 minutes by seeing which way the wind is blowing. I mean I wish I didn’t have to address that but listeners who know me know that I’m having him on the show because I love converts. Their stories are so strange and haunted and familiar and wretched and personal. Amazing grace. The hymn uses that great word wretch to denote the person who needs to be saved by grace. Their opposite words wretch little twisted word grace so open and forgiving and in conversion narratives you get to hear people wrestle with their own status as wretches. You get to hear why they changed and you get to imagine a person even a wretch like the rest of us can change sometimes converts into religions and cults and converts out of them are detached from their experience. They don’t know quite why they embraced Nexium or the Moonies or Scientology but others can reflect deeply on what motivated them to override their consciences forfeit their dignity and join up. In this case with a racist con like Donald Trump Scaramouche he is one of these. He talked to me about his working class upbringing his coke addicted brother his status anxiety and class anger his fear that Trump’s power became an aphrodisiac for him. He talked about his hope that he had pushed back here and there where possible. He talked about his humiliation in being fired and even talked about how his intoxication with Trump was so great that he missed the birth of his own son. If I ever had any doubts about having the Mooch on Trump cast I didn’t. While he was talking he’s a figure for so many Americans who because of whatever their personal histories their emotional and cognitive vulnerabilities fell under Trump’s spell better than that. He’s a figure for how they can break free for all. It makes my head spin. To think of anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear. Not despising Trump on sight. Scaramouche he told me a plausible story about how a working class kid who saw a shot at the big time might have hitched his wagon to Trump’s star and no Scaramouche he did not call bullshit on Trump or see him as a grave danger. When most of us did the 70s 80s 90s or at least when he announced his campaign which is what makes the story of Scaramouche is so compelling because the way out of Trump ism is probably not going to be charted by Democrats and liberals. Rather the way out of Trump ism may end up being charted by those who understand it’s a law so deeply that they once let it capture them. Joining me on the line is Anthony Scaramucci at sea. All right let’s jump in.

S5: Anthony you are such a virtuoso at your awesome Aria. As you know you’re like an Italian tenor talking about politics fellatio your recent change of heart.

S6: But I want to take it as a down and nice show it was auto fellatio. But go ahead.

S5: Yeah but the county is as accurate but fellatio seems like a good word for a tenor like doesn’t it seem like a lot. Oh.

S6: Yeah.

S7: You know unless I’m really a tenor they’re more of a baritone but that’s fine. Keep going.

S5: OK. I want to get to the real Anthony. And it seems like part of you does too. So the late great James Gandolfini once told me that playing Tony Soprano was eating him up inside and one day would kill him. Yeah. And for you it must have been hard playing a character in Trump World for so long.

S8: No I don’t think so. I mean just remember with Coco Chanel said I tell my kids this Coco Chanel said that you get the face that you deserve at 50.

S9: So you got to just be yourself in life. Otherwise you’ll end up with a crooked and craggy face you know. Yeah I’m 55 you’re young.

S7: Yeah I to be myself every day when I wake up. I recommend that for everybody out. So you know in James Gandolfini cases. He’s a method actor and obviously brilliant at it. And that was a very tough job to play because Tony Soprano was obviously a super complex character. But I wasn’t really playing a character.

S10: I applauded what President Trump as a candidate was doing. And I think I got overly biased that I would say this to every one of your listeners three or four things happened to you we’re all human. You have confirmation bias. You have bias as a result of your upbringing. And then if you get close to power guess what happens to you. Power is an aphrodisiac and power can be corrupting. And so if you think you’re above those natural forces look at my life. OK. Because I am not above those natural forces and I fell prey to some of them in certain areas. So when I was out with the president he was campaigning in areas of the country that were blighted. And there was levels of economic desperation. And these were working poor people. It was very reminiscent to the way I grew up. You know my dad was a crane operator. He then had a job as a payload or operator he was in a local union. He was an hourly worker. Never went to college. My mother was a housewife but there were very high blue collar middle class wages back then. And those jobs don’t exist anymore Virginia. So. So when he was out there talking about that and the restoration of that and providing hope and opportunity for those people even though I was a Scott Walker supporter and a Jeb Bush supporter I was attracted to that. And so secondarily when he started saying things that were nonsensical and tweeting things that are nonsensical.

S11: What happens from a psychological perspective is you go through a lot of cognitive dissonance. Right. You’ve bought the car the car is not working super well but dammit you made that decision to buy the car. Yeah. You start adjusting yourself to the lemon side of the car. Yes. And so now I’ve been blown from the White House unceremoniously due to my auto fellatio comment. But we both know that that’s not really true. It was more related to how much press I was getting you know the president doesn’t like anybody in the room getting any level of attention like the kiss of death from President Trump is hey you’re getting as famous as me or you’re getting more press to me. If he says that to you you’re getting blown out you know very quickly. And so that’s why I got fired no big deal.

S8: I didn’t want to be a baby or Weiner after I got fired of the Charlottesville thing came up literally 10 days after I was fired. I spoke out against it. The child separation policy was exposed. I spoke out against it. He was in Helsinki again trying to support the president. But I spoke out against the repudiation of our intelligence agencies in front of the president of Russia.

S9: I wrote an op ed you can find it at the hill just go to Hill dot com at the press is not the enemy of the people. So I was trying to stay loyal to him but also not be a Trump apologist and so red letter thing started happening crazier things started happening in my mind now liberals people on the left people that dislike Trump or conservatives that were in the anti Trump or Never Trump movement they could be justified in their criticism of me by saying well he hasn’t really changed that much. He was like that. And so you’re late to the party and I’m willing to accept that criticism. But what I would also say to those people he is now an international danger if he gets reelected and we go four more years of this nonsense it’ll have devastating concept once is to the American alliance and global trading system and to how he perceives the world and how he’s going to try to project that on the world.

S5: Trump cast has been a very hospitable place to people like you who’ve had changes of heart. We’ve had Max Boot on here. We’ve had a former Trump troll on here. We’ve had people who’ve worked for Trump or worked with Trump and who have rethought it or have even rethought their Republican allegiance. And you do a very nice job that cognitive dissonance of driving a car that keeps malfunctioning on you and you have to tell yourself Well this is the way this BMW is supposed to drive or you know I’m just going to overlook this or this isn’t so bad. Said Gaslight yourself about it.

S12: No question. But yeah gas light lighting the country.

S8: And so what I said to Liz Smith who’s people to Jiggs is comms director I’m very impressed with the mayor. He’s got an amazing temperament great wealth of knowledge unbelievably packed resumé for age 7. And I was watching him this morning on NEW DAY and I was and he was expressing compassion for our deranged president. You know taking a sharpie to weather maps and saying that President Xi and Jerome Powell who’s a bigger enemy to the United States and there’s a litany of things that the president has done in his Trump noble meltdown over the last month. Yeah.

S5: And he was expressing compassion Trump noble. That’s chair noble. That’s near an ethics. Very nice.

S9: I said that Jonathan Swan after my Gilmore appearance that this is a full blown meltdown.

S11: We’re in the early episodes of the sure noble HBO mini series. Yes it were the the reactors melting and now the apparatchiks the bureaucrats around the reactor have to now make a decision. Are we going to clean this up or are we going to cover it up.

S5: Yeah. My favorite part of that and I think it’s relevant is when the dosimeter that sort of Geiger counter only went up to something like six point five meaning and if we had hit that height. But everyone no one had ever seen anything higher before so they didn’t know how to react and even the measures didn’t go high enough. That’s how I think about Nancy Pelosi right now. Her count her metric it doesn’t go high enough for this particular disaster. But wait I got to get to something about what about what about Senator McConnell Kevin McCarthy I mean no no. Exactly right. And all the Jim Jordans the hacks the responsible adults.

S11: Right. We’re in a full blown nervous breakdown we’re in a full blown mental mania now from the president. Yeah United States.

S5: I got to get back to you. The compromise that you made while you were driving this lemon car the chief among them was the lying and you know Sean Spicer of course has walked back at least the whopper about the inauguration crowd that he told and Michael Cohen has repented on his way to jail of course for of what he calls lying for Mr. Trump for at least a decade. I love how he says that line for Mr. Trump and even Giuliani says he’s worried now that his tombstone will say he lied for Donald Trump. How about you.

S9: Well tell me where I lifeform though because I. All right. Again I’m not trying to live in denial. I only did one press conference. Go look at the press conference I answered every one of those questions honestly.

S5: OK. I’m gonna give you a classic. This is gonna be in Bartlett’s. You. You know what it is. I’m not sure the president is visibly infirm. He’s has a hard time walking up stairs. He’s sluggish his golf swing is weird. He can barely throw paper towels to suffering people in Puerto Rico. You say I have seen this guy throw a dead spiral through a tire. I’ve seen him in Madison Square Garden with a top coat standing in the key hitting shots. I don’t see this as a guy that’s ever under siege.

S13: All right. Please tell me sick and I bless.

S8: I’ve seen them sink putts to win a golf match. And the point I was making that was wait a second.

S6: Do you stand behind the due process of coming out.

S11: You gotta you gotta you gotta ask Jim Kelly the quarterback for the Buffalo Bills. And again this is Trump from 20 years ago throwing that ball through the tire. Go ask him. OK. And you got to ask people. I even think Spike Lee was there when Trump walked out with the top coat on and he shot the. And remember this is when Trump was just a little bit of a lunatic popular icon in New York City. You know how the Howard Stern show and we were at a I think it was a Knicks Bulls game and he hit the shot. Not from the top of the key but from the foul line with the top coat on. And so I didn’t tell lies. The problem is there are no cell phones back then and I’m not sure if there’s record Asians of this but there were many people that saw that. You can ask Keith Schiller.

S5: So OK I will definitely ask Keith Schiller. Get the Madison Square Garden tape see the topcoat see him hitting free throws.

S11: No I found those one shot and the foul line. If they pass on the ball and he hit the shot but the but there was a metaphorical description going on there when they were asking me you know. Can he handle pressure is he under siege. Mm hmm. And I said No I think this guy is not a gun waver in the shoot out in the OK Corral. The guy’s not a gun waver. He knows how to hit the target. He is materially different in my mind from 2016 2017. Now in 2019.

S5: I have to go back to this because for all Trump calls the media fake news I don’t think I have ever seen him even request much less get a correction on a fact. It’s crazy. When I was at the times I would get you know a correction about when Destiny’s Child broke up or something about Mary Tyler Moore its production company. You know once a month but Trump has never forced or asked for a correction. So I want to go just to the details as a former fact checker and say I have seen this guy throw a dead spiral through a tire. First of all I had to ask my former quarterback boyfriend what that even means. And he said that’s a very challenging thing to do. So I want to ask you where did you see it and how far away was he from the tire. And was it an ordinary car tire. Again as Jim Kelly because he was also there with you.

S8: He was OK. OK. And ask him. And he threw the ball through the tire and we were laughing. And of course Trump being Trump he was very proud of himself with the whole thing. And so and then secondarily the shot at the at the at Madison Square Garden go to Keith Schiller the President’s bodyguard. Ask him bodyguard former bodyguard and so you know you know just ask those guys if those things happened and if they didn’t happen and I made them up or I imagined them I’ll go for a neuro psych evaluation and then because I think the president needs one I’m happy to go from one myself. But if Europe if you’re going through three years of my advocacy for the president and you’re picking out that one thing and you say OK Hey Mooch you were a liar on that one thing. OK. I actually don’t think that that’s fair. And I don’t think I was a liar and I’m supporting it with evidence. But if you’re OK you want to make a different indictment of me which I think is a more accurate and fairer indictment. Hey Hey Hey Mooch. He was gaslighting you and he was gaslighting the country.

S12: Why did you allow that to happen to you.

S5: Yeah that’s how I see this. You were amplifying his idea of himself as always. That’s a better condition in perfect you know able to throw a dead spiral through.

S11: And I’m going to tell you something that’s very ugly and very truthful but also happens to be very human. And it should be a cautionary tale for every one of your listeners. OK. That question is a fair question and that is a fair indict and I’m going to tell you something that I don’t like about myself. You’re also going to suggest that it may be human and it may be part and parcel of our human condition. When you’re that close to power and you’re sitting in the White House and you’re in the press room behind the podium that says the White House and you’re trying to curry favor with your boss OK you allow yourself to move the guard rails of your principles. How about that. And I am embarrassed about that and I have to look at that honestly and objectively and say that to you brought up and say it to you. But I also have to tell you if it could happen to me it maybe you’re a better person than me. Maybe you’re more moral maybe you’re more principled but maybe you’ve never been in that situation. And it may or may not happen to you and this is one of the reasons why I recommend to people that read The Federalist Papers because our founders were very worried about that they were worried about the corruptive force of power and absolute power. And that’s why they diffused the system. Virginia And so all I’m saying to you is if you think that happened to me I’m willing to admit it. There were people inside the White House right now that that’s happening too. They’re either afraid to admit it. They don’t want to be outed or humiliated by the admittance of it. They are in a siege mentality. They’re in a Stockholm likes hostage syndrome crisis.

S14: Or worse than that. You want to hear something worse than that. They’re rationalizing. They’re saying well if I wasn’t here this would be way worse than it is right now. Yeah. Try nuts. But you know I’m here saving the country.

S5: Yeah. That’s what I’ve heard that Bill Barr says he’s either saving the country or the Republican Party.

S11: But you’re not doing that Bill. OK. What you are doing is you’re enabling madness and we have somebody at the top of the food chain now that is mad. He’s expressing an idea and a full blown nervous breakdown. And so you know I’m speaking the truth. And you know these guys are equivocating and so if you say Well what took you so long to speak the truth. I’m a human being right.

S5: You were drunk on power and we’ve all been there. I will say that I mean being is the answer. I will say you referred to my own you know sort of moral center fiber as something that would keep me away from it. I think it’s more my vanity I just can’t imagine being under Trump’s thumb. I hate chuckling And I hate lying for other people and I hate it just seems like a forfeiture of dignity that I’m so surprised that so many alpha males like yourself made. I ask this all the time for some reason you fell into this thing it’s almost like the Nexium cult or something like Why you. Why bar why all these people that I would not you just you described yourself as an alpha male on your podcast recently as someone so much as flirts with your wife you like put his head in the toilet of an alpha male the third power I shove that guy’s head into thought I said I said All right.

S6: So you’re flirting with my you’re a tough guy and you’re not happy about this guy.

S8: I said stop flirting with him you’re going into the toilet flushes that in the toilet twice and then I picked his head up out of the toilet. But you you asked me a question so can I answer.

S5: Well I’m actually I. This is a bit of a windup because I want to say something that you and I do have in common which is that eight years ago I myself underwent a religious conversion and a wrenching personal change by admitting I was an alcoholic and getting sober but that followed a very dark night of the soul where I literally felt twisted in knots for you know months beforehand. So I want to hear about how your conversion happened and was it agonizing like mine or did it. Was it did you have a bright light moment.

S15: No. As I wrote in The Washington Post I did not have a road to Damascus moment. And by the way you know I have a brother that has suffered with addiction and I’ve got addiction issues in my family and I don’t have substance addiction issues. But I obviously have workaholism addiction issues so my heart goes out to you for being so honest about it. And thank you. And I would also recommend to you and I’ll send you the link.

S8: I did a podcast with my brother about his cocaine addiction about the struggle that we had growing up together what the issues were in our family and how we went in separate directions but love each other and how he went out of in and out of rehab four different times. And I would just recommend to people that are listening to your podcast that had these issues to listen to it because it’s ok it’s ok and it’s OK to be honest about it. And it’s very healing to do what you did for yourself and what my brother has done for him and for his self. But you’re asking me the question so I want to answer it by telling you the following. When you love the country and you grow up in a blue collar rough and tumble environment and you get super lucky where you know you’re born with a decent enough brain and you’ve got enough talent and hard work where you end up at the Harvard Law School. And yet there’s no legacy there’s no donation there’s no nothing. You just scrapped your way there and now you have to figure out a way to pay for it and you pay off all your school debt. You go to Goldman you build two successful businesses and someone who you liked definitely liked them.

S11: Not going to lie about that and had a good relationship with goes on to become the president of the United States and asks you for help and you have literally lived the American dream. You know you’re employing 85 people 10 billion under management. You’ve created some level of financial independence and security for a couple of generations of scary movies including my parents who I have been subsidizing since I left law school and now you have the opportunity to affect policy help the American people. Forgive me but I was drawn to that as a alpha male a beta male a say to male whatever you want to call it. I was like hey I have lived the American Dream the opportunity serve the American president in the White House. I remember my first job was to be the OPM director which was to be the president’s chief networking officer. I was like OK. That’s a good job for me. It fits my skill set. Let me go do that. I’ll help the country. So was that idealization was at stupidity. Was that naive. TAY I accept all of those things but you have to remember you know I didn’t grow up in a country club. I don’t know how to hit a golf ball. I don’t know how to hit a tennis ball. I couldn’t go to my dad Virginia and say hey Pops what was it like in that rough and tumble corporate public Lee owned companies boardroom. Right. He didn’t know he got up at 350 in the morning the lunch pail was put in the refrigerator by my mom at 10 o’clock. He was at work at five o’clock in the morning got home at 315 in the afternoon. OK. And he worked his ass off OK outside and hot and cold weather for 45 years. And so he’s a very good guy. Yeah and a very hard worker. But I couldn’t go to him and say hey Pops what do you think.

S5: Right. And how about a few million dollars to launch my career or how about a call to Harvard.

S6: Well exactly.

S5: But there were people that said to me don’t go worse especially I made a mistake and I smooch I am finding this very poignant and I haven’t heard you talk about this before the class subject brings to mind the long history in American politics and the kind of Episcopalian Mayflower high hats I’m thinking of Robert Mueller Emmett flood the Bushes acting like they own the whole American joint. I don’t know if you saw this movie. The Quiet American a very waspy guy says you know the Jews have tradition the Italians have their this that everyone has their that’s what a wasps have. And the character played by Matt Damon says we have the United States of America and you’re all just visiting right. But there’s a history of those wasps disdaining the so-called white ethnics. I’ve recently heard that that’s you and me Italian and Irish who come in to their spaces to Harvard to teach D.C. with coarse language crude ways. They can’t keep it together. You know what do you have to say to that old guard who keeps saying and I’m part of this I’m always on Twitter.

S13: The Bush family say who might see you and me and whoever else as a carnival act that is that pure snobbery or is there anything to say for more kind of propriety in politics.

S8: Oh listen I mean you know we’re in a very different country than we were in 100 years ago 50 years ago and it’s transforming exponentially today.

S10: And so what I would say to those people that by and large they did a very good job. There was too much racism the introduction of the country with the original sin of slavery all of those things we can look back through the prism of history and the mass collection of our current morals and we can judge it. I choose not to do that. I tell I tell young students when I’m speaking if you’ve driven in a car or flown in a plane 300 years from now when they eventually clean up the environment and we’re no longer burning fossil fuels they’ll look back on the period 1850 to 20 150 and say you guys were a bunch of disgusting pigs and they’ll start taking your statues down.

S8: Yes.

S10: I don’t want to go back or forward what I want to say is where we are now. I used some crass language. I’m a neighborhood guy. I was trusting a reporter and I and I said something regrettable but I can tell you that I know members of the Bush family have used some four letter words in their life trust me and members of the Mueller family I don’t know them but I guarantee that they’ve used some four letter words maybe the Romneys haven’t. I know them pretty well they probably haven’t. OK but by and large were people and what I would say the people that come from that Puritan was Presbyterian culture that America in order to last be this lasting Republic be this lasting great experiment.

S8: It has to adapt and it has to reframe its mosaic reframe the woven nature of our tapestry. And one of the things that the president is doing is he’s this unifying us if that’s the final word. OK I’ll be George W. Bush and make up some words on your back as the country’s first name is united. And at the end of the day whether my parents were hit or called derogatory slang or my grandmother was told to go back to the country that she came from. She loved this country and they loved the country. And I’m enormously and passionately in love with the country because we were able to actualize here. We were able to find a niche and we were able to live to our true. Dreams who were able to find that aspiration. And this is the gift that this country has for people. But I will tell you something.

S10: The system is broken. If you look at economic rent attribution I’m a trained economist running a lot of money.

S8: If you look at the balance between labor and capital distribution right now it’s 60 to capital 40 to Labor but roughly when it’s 50/50 Virginia the country’s very happy when it goes awry and goes 60 40. You get this divide you get this anxiety you get this class envy you get this wage crisis you get this class crisis if you will.

S14: And Teddy Roosevelt who’s the father of American progressivism was a Republican and he brought the robber barons to the White House as he was building the West Wing. Yeah he said hey guys you got to knock this off we need building codes and standards. He read Jacob Rees’s book The Dutch journalists how the other half lived the tenements were collapsing in East New York. He said hey guys we got to cut this out. We did not like these people. And he signed legislation my grandfather always said this about him. He didn’t like him very much because he signed legislation in nineteen 0 4. That demarcated Italians as non Caucasian for immigration purposes. And my grandfather always brought that up didn’t like it but one night about Teddy Roosevelt when you reflect back historically he recognized that he had to create a system or a society where people were getting some sort of a fair deal. Henry Ford Henry Ford was a racist. Henry Ford was loved by Adolf Hitler very flawed guy. But Henry Ford understood that he had to pay his workers enough money. To.

S9: Be able to afford the car that they were producing to be able to afford the home. And he had I got to put their children in a good school system because they won’t come after me in my mansion with a pitchfork and a tiki too.

S5: Yeah right. I mean it’s sort of the Schindler thing that your industrialists have interests and that draw it can end up affecting their politics.

S8: It is super important so what I would say very simply to you and your listeners we’re in a crisis now.

S14: We may not have the same political views we may be different on things. You’d be surprised at how close I am to you on social issues. I I am for gay marriage a woman’s right to choose. All of those things OK but we may be different but we have a national and international crisis on our hands right now. And it’s to me it’s almost like a pearl harbor. OK. We have to come together OK. And if there is a group of Republicans that want to hold onto power and they want to equivocate and gaslight and move the goalposts along with President Trump I understand why they’re doing it. I’m trying to open up and create an off ramp for those people and I’m praying that they’re gonna come off that ramp the way I did with you talking about capital on labor.

S5: It sounds like you’re off ramp might lead you into the arms of Bernie Sanders at least Elizabeth Warren.

S9: No because if you can’t do it top down we’ve proven through 150 years of failed socialist experimentation that you can’t do it top down. But what you can do is you go back to Roosevelt the second Roosevelt Franklin and you go to Eisenhower and you and you look at what they were trying to do. You can do it through the tax policy and social policy incentivizing the free market to get there.

S12: So who’s your candidate.

S14: Well we have to see I think we’re still very early I know that sounds crazy but I believe that Donald Trump will not be the Republican nominee. I’m not saying that the current announced candidates against them will be but I think he’s in severe mental decline. And I think he is in severely severely impaired at this point. And I think that they’re going to say hey you pitch five or six good innings the ball is going over the backstop now you’ve got to take a powder because you can’t put sentences together anymore and the end and you’ve created a fever now in the American system and we have to be good statesmen and be the immunological part of the system to remove you.

S12: And let’s get you out of here on a high road. You don’t have to have Mike Pence become president but let’s just tell people you’re not running for re-election if it’s Joe Walsh and Pete booted jets. Where are you.

S9: Well if you remember I did one press conference. I’m still one up on Stephanie. OK but let me just say this to you. I know I know that press covered I didn’t answer a hypothetical and I reminded people that the first thing they teach you in law school is don’t answer the hypothetical because you don’t know and it’s too far away. But what I hope is you’ll invite me on your pod yes. And if that is to come to pass and all those travails over the next 14 months happen or six or eight months then you and I will have an honest analytical conversation as to where I am. I’m

S5: all about it. We will definitely do that.

S14: But I’m not Trump Virginia because Trump is a systemic danger. He’s a clear and present danger to the American system. He’s disrupting the global trading system. He’s disrupting the grand alliance that has kept the peace and led to this tremendous global prosperity. And he needs to be removed. This is not a personal thing. This is not oh he fired me I tried to stay loyal to him for two years Virginia. Yeah. It’s not any of that.

S8: This is we’re now past the point where he can be saved and he can stay as the American president for four or five years. If that happens if that happens you’re running to higher risk for the country. And so I’ll be out there I’m raising money in my pac. I’ll be out there in the swing states campaigning and explaining the message that I’m sharing with you and your listeners today and I’m grateful to you for that.

S5: When I underwent you know when I got sober I had a lot of amends to make. You know I had heard a lot of people and you know it’s part of the program of getting sober you know from your brother that you know take responsibility for that. And you know going through I think we saw Michael Cohen and his extraordinary test second testimony before the House Judiciary Committee really almost seek absolution from Elijah Cummings. You know for what he had done and for aligning himself with as he described Trump a racist a con man and a cheat and you know that it’s the kind of get down on your knees and pray. But he was sobbing. He he got tears in his eyes thinking about how he’d betrayed his Holocaust surviving family to back a racist. So now I want to talk to you about what your amends to your family might look like. I mean you were you know Deirdre Your wife filed for divorce on the grounds that your ambition had gotten the most of you that you’ve chosen Trump over her. And I was listening to the podcast.

S9: It was a little more complicated than that but that was a big part of it.

S5: You’re right. And most importantly and I guess this painful topic but you know you’re just as you’re both helicopter parents now went to a whole day of kindergarten with your son but you weren’t a helicopter parent two years ago when you missed your baby’s birth and staying with Trump and not your wife during the delivery and read her a curt text. That’s the kind of thing a drunk would do. I don’t mean that you’re doing drugs but that’s the kind of thing when you’re just selfishly gunning it through your life trying to get ahead and losing sight of the big picture. I mean what is that amends to Deirdre going to look like.

S9: OK. So let’s go back because a lot of that stuff is a lot of misinformation unfortunately and again I’m not equivocating.

S8: I just want to lay out the facts as an example two weeks ago Republican operatives dropped a story on me that I was at a Joe Biden fundraiser. I was not at a Joe Biden fundraiser. I was at a charity fundraiser for the Greek Orthodox Church. There were a thousand people there. Joe Biden came for three minutes to accept an award for his deceased son. He spoke from the podium for three minutes. He was at a fundraiser came to our charity event to speak for three minutes and left and the Republican operatives put me at a Joe Biden fundraiser to try to make me look like a traitor or a Benedict Arnold to the Republican Party.

S11: OK. In the situation that you’re referring to two years ago when President Trump told me OK we thought Priebus was going to resign he’s not going to fire him on Friday. I said well I know Reince Priebus they’re going to drop an opposed story on me that’s going to obliterate me. And and you know Washington he was fired at 5 0 7 on the Bloomberg terminal at 5 18. The New York Post opposition research story was dropped on me in its full glory.

S5: But when did Deirdre is water break.

S8: Well let’s talk about that. I was in my bed my baby our baby was born on July 24th 2017.

S11: We were fighting. She had filed for divorce. There was an agreement that I was going to be at the baby’s delivery. The baby was due on August 8th. When I got to the Boy Scout Jamboree or whatever it was called On Air Force One. We then took a 50 minute trip in a caravan. So you know that’s with no traffic. So that was probably 90 minutes out with traffic to the Boy Scout Jamboree. I then got notification from Deirdre that her water was breaking and that she was going into delivery. I tried to get back to New York. That was completely left out of the story. I called Net Jets. I called charter flights. You may know this but there’s a 60 mile ground stop around Air Force One. I did not know that but I learned it on the day that my son was born. I couldn’t get to a FBO or get back to New York in time for the delivery of the baby. That was never reported in The New York Post. What was reported was my blind ambition my drunken no status whatever you want to call it and all of that sort of definition. But there’s a lot more texture to the story than the way it happened. OK let me let me just finish two more senses because you brought it up okay. I love Deirdre digital loves me. You can listen to the podcast. It took great balls for her to fire the voice cannon ball over the transom of me. It took great balls. I admire her for it. Okay. When. When I was in the White House I was trying to figure out a way to reconcile with her. I was blown from the White House and we began the process of reconciliation shortly thereafter and we’ve been working on it for the last two years.

S8: I think it’s going well you’d have to ask her invite her on your podcast. Believe me she’s a very blunt lady and she’s very very honest. But here’s the point of the story. It wasn’t just Trump we had other personal things that we were dealing with between our parents and other things that were going on and we were making a lot of mistakes. And so what I would also say to people listening to your pockets if you’re in a relationship with somebody.

S11: And you think that relationship is perfect. Please call me because you’ll be the first person that I’ve met that has a perfect relationship with somebody else and I would like to meet you to learn from you. But my relationship with Deirdre is far from perfect but we love each other very much and we reconciled we have two beautiful children together and I have three adult children and I think I’ve spent a good 30 minutes explaining to you that I’m a very flawed guy but I’m a very passionate guy and I’m a guy that really believes in trying my best to do the right thing and it doesn’t mean I’ve done the right thing at every turn in my life but I own those mistakes in my marriage. I own those mistakes working for Trump and when you asked me about what am I going to do to clean it up. The only thing I can do Virginia is work on making sure that he’s not reelected and I’m going to do that with my personal money raising money articulating why he cannot be the president for the next four to five years.

S5: Yeah I’m gonna do that and that must be a great great consolation to Deirdre who doesn’t share your politics and objects to Trump. If that’s not enough for people then I’m sorry judge me the way you want to judge me.

S8: But just recognize that if you have this improbable life where you’ve grown up in a blue collar neighborhood of blue collar parents and you somehow manage to be in the White House for eleven seconds or eleven days and you build two successful businesses and you know you’ve got a set of nuts on you which you know I do because I have no problem going toe to toe with this guy.

S5: Not commenting on your nuts but yes okay.

S8: But you know I do okay and so it probably That’s right too self-serving. But if you’re listening to my podcast. We had a sociologist on. I told my notes for the size of grapefruits he said. Well that’s a sign of promiscuity. I said No no I meant Green Peace in the Jolly Green Giant frozen food section. My point being is I’ve got no fear and I’ve got no problem going toe to toe with this guy and I’ve got no problem explaining to people what the danger is.

S9: And I also have no problem explaining to people how I got in the soup with him and why it’s so important if they’re in the soup with him that it’s okay to get out of the soup and to declare yourself on behalf of your family and on behalf of your country.

S5: All right before I let you go. As the life coaches say what is personal success fulfillment look like for you right now. Like let’s say two years from now after the election. What would make it seem like the scary smoochy life was really back on track.

S11: I think it already is. When I got blown from the White House which was full blown you know 15 stage humiliation globally a lot of people called me to offer me help. And it was a very gratifying George Bailey sort of a thing for me. And I said to somebody in one of these interviews it was like George Bailey I hit my head on the on the bridge. I was in an alternative universe for 11 days. I was like Man I got to get back to my life. How is there God help me figure out a way to get back to my life.

S4: Did you actually ask God for help.

S11: Well I asked God for help every single day. I’m a very faithful person. I was raised Roman Catholic. I am not in love with the priest. We don’t have to go into that in this podcast but. And no one ever molested me. Thank God. I am a. Very faithful very religious person I ask God for help every single day. Okay. And so so I am very blessed guy. Except to think about where I was on July 30 first 2017 and think about where I am today in 2019.

S5: If so pleased to hear you sounding good and committed to your new path and I hope you will come back to continue to document these changes in your life.

S11: I’ll come back anytime okay. But I do you know I know I’m being self-congratulatory. I do think I’m an A plus troll or by the way I think I’m like I gotta be up I gotta be in the major leagues or trolling at this point.

S5: All right. Well I haven’t read it because I’m a plus and not feeding trolls.

S16: My guest has been Anthony Scaramucci she’s the director of communications for the White House in July of 2017. He has since had a change of heart and has devoted himself to fighting Trump and Trump has. That’s it for today’s show. What do you think. You know how to reach me come to Twitter I’m at page 88. This show is at real. Trump cast our show today was produced by Melissa Kaplan with help from Max savage Levinson and Merritt shakeup. I’m Virginia Heffernan. Thanks for listening to Trump cast.