S1: The following recording may contain explicit language I can’t get more explicit than May with literal say it may.
S2: It’s Monday, April 13th, twenty twenty from Slate, it’s the gist. I’m Mike PESCA. The president, Donald J.
S3: Trump has appointed a counsel to reopen America. He’ll be Mark Meadows, who’s been on the job for two weeks. Steve Manoogian, Larry Kudlow, Robert Heizer, Wilbur Ross, funking Trump. Jared Kushner is married to a banker.
S4: Trump is the daughter of President Trump. This, by the way, the announcing of this council, that was the high watermark of competence for the Trump administration today because he used the White House briefing to play a campaign ad campaign style ad.. But let’s just call it a campaign ad. With music and graphics and news clips indicating that he’s done a great job so far. Trump denied the ad was produced. That became a point of discussion in the briefing. I wouldn’t call it produced, he said. Did they just kind of put it together? So I am wondering what the council to reopen the American economy will produce. Certainly not a reopening of the American economy. Now, I want to be clear what so many councils flying around and committees and tasks, tasks, force. This is not the Corona Task Force that is headed by Mike Pence. And that is not the Corona Task Force that was headed by Alex Azar. I mean, actually, it is. But they kicked Alex’s are out and they installed Mike Pence beginning last month. This is also not the Chateau Corona Task Force, which is Jared Kushner reading Alex Berenson’s Twitter feed and working out in public his thoughts on federalism. So while a lot of people were upset that the president’s daughter and son in law are two sevenths of the panel to reopen America, realize that four sevenths of that panel are his daughter and son in law and a guy who’s been on the job for two weeks, and an 82 year old who predicted two months ago that China’s corona virus woes would, quote, help to accelerate the return of jobs to North America. Though, to be fair, Wilbur Ross made that asinine prediction with maximum compassion.
S5: Well, first of all, every American’s heart has to go out to the victims of the Corona virus. So I don’t want to talk about a victory lap over a very unfortunate, very malignant disease.
S4: But the fact is, the fact is, Wilbur Ross said could be good for us stateside. Ross did not factor in the possibility that Cauvin could also strike the U.S., which is one reason why he is an octogenarian, has reportedly been distancing himself from the rest of the cabinet and working out of his Palm Beach mansion, which is smart. Don’t don’t begrudge him that. I’m glad Jared is on this task force. I got to say, because if he wasn’t, then there’d be some other shadow task force which would undermine and thwart the task of this original task force. This task force is going to decide, of course, when the economy will reopen, which is exactly like the parents of a newborn baby boy looking down into their crib and instantly deciding which college he’ll go to and what position he’ll play on the varsity soccer team center halfback Bodin. And not until all the people stop dying are the answers to the questions hanging in the air on the show today about this economy reopening. How seriously should we take that?
S6: But first part two of my talk with Craig Rothfeld, who went from the world of finance to the inside of a prison cell to a business providing guidance and advice for others who face incarceration. His clients are scared, confused and even desperate. Recently, Craig’s business, which you talked about recently, Craig’s business, which he talked about with me on Friday show, got a boost or at least a lot of attention. He got word of a possible high profile client. Perhaps you’ve heard of this guy. He’s New York state inmate, 3 1 0 2 0 0 0 1 5 3.
S7: Also known as Harvey Weinstein. And that discussion is next.
S6: Craig Rothfeld worked on Wall Street, made a lot of money. Then when the recession hit, continue to spend a lot of money, money that he wasn’t necessarily entitled to. First barred from working in the financial services industry, then charged with crimes. Craig eventually pled guilty to what the D.A. called, quote, financial schemes built on deception and misrepresentations. He was remanded state custody spent time, too much time on Rikers Island and in a series of state correctional facilities. But inside, he figured out how to navigate and survive incarceration. And upon his release, he set up an unusual and, it turns out much needed business as a prison consultant. Soon, a potential client came his way. And so I asked Craig, how did this part of your career play out? How did you even first hear that Harvey Weinstein might be in need of your services?
S8: Great story. And it’s a story that applies to all of us, all walks of life, totally steeped in you never know who knows who always treat people the right way, you know, on your way up, on your way down. I had been retained by a client who was already at alster Correctional Facility. The reception said, and I can get retained at all different various points as you can get you later. And I was retained by the client. And that client on his bus ride from Rikers to alster was shackled to another gentleman. So they had an instant bond. And three days later that gentleman hired me. So the client and I got came through my attorney, which is a natural source of referrals. The other person, I had no idea who he was and I got referred by another inmate and that person’s attorney happened to be author, Darla, an author. And I developed a relationship because I needed him for the parole report. Stayed in touch with him as I built my practice. Yeah. And what had happened was as they were winding down, closing. Arguments in the Wainstein case, I just got my third person approved for parole, so I sent an email out to all the criminal attorneys that of on my list serve less explaining what had happened and different things they should consider for their current clients. And Arthur responded to me in an e-mail and said, I’m sure, you know, I’m on the Weinstein case. Call me tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. Know we need you.
S9: So in a way, it’s a classic case of it’s not what you know, it’s who you’re shackled to and the like that you’re shackled to.
S8: Absolutely. But it just goes to show you, Mike. Right. That line works. Even in prison. Yeah, right.
S9: Yeah. Your client’s up to this point. Had they mostly done all done financial crimes because Weinstein’s a rapist. I mean, is that crime different from the crimes of most of your clients up to that point?
S8: Yes, it is. And a lot goes into when you make the decision to retain someone. But most of the clients that I had and the crimes that they were convicted of were either white collar non-violent crimes, some were alcohol related crimes, you know, d.w eyes and D.U.I.s. But this was the first time I was retained by someone who, if convicted and if they went in, was going in for what would ultimately be a violent crime.
S9: Tell me about the ethical considerations, if any, that went into accepting Weinstein as a client.
S8: A lot. Did you know there’s no particular order to this? But, you know, I protect their privacy a lot. But I have two young daughters and I talked with them for obvious reasons. I spoke with my spouse. This potentially had implications for the whole family. And I spoke to a lot of friends, professional colleagues on a horizontal level and mentors about what it all meant and what it would mean to accept it, what it would mean in people’s eyes. So on and so forth. And surprisingly, almost everyone came down in the same way, which is that if you want to do this for a career, you don’t get to choose necessarily. A lot of people pointed out to me that public defenders who are admired by everyone are representing, you know, murderers. And no one’s taking their inventory. You know, he’s not my friend. Right. I didn’t know him at that point. It’s not family. The biggest reason I originally got into this, Mike, was for the families. I mean, the families do the time right along with you. I mean, I’d argue sometimes it’s harder on the families than it is on the inmate. And, you know, someone very close to me said, Harvey’s got a family. It’s got children. He’s got ex-wives. He’s got a family, too. And they’re innocent victims. And their family deserves this as much as any other family. And that really resonated with me. And then, look, if I wanted to do this, you don’t say no professionally, at least in my opinion. I mean, you being invited to arguably the biggest dance. They don’t often happen and they never happen again. And, you know, I’m very candid about it. So I think I put all those inputs together and I made the decision to do it.
S10: I would also think that, A, it just helps to be agnostic as far as you could be on the crimes that were committed. And sometimes maybe, you know, there is a phenomenon of false conviction. Doubtful that that happened in the Weinstein case, but it just helps. I would think to do what you do to be really not judgmental about the actual crimes. And the second point would be if you think what you’re doing is a good thing not only for yourself, but your clients. Having Weinstein as a client is very helpful to the business. It lets other people know what you’re doing. You got a lot of press like say, being interviewed on the gist. So I would think those two things would add up to taking him on as a client. And the considerations of if he is or isn’t a horrible man is not something to totally discount, but perhaps outweighed by the other two considerations.
S8: I agree. As someone said to me, look, this is your business. You’re putting food on the table for your family. I mean, the two things I would tell you in regards to I spoke to is, you know, I met with my rabbi. Yeah. And we had a long, hard talk about it. And, you know, we talked about it in terms of just being friends. I talked about it in terms of him being a rabbi, talked about it in terms of the Talmud. I mean, what it means and whether people deserve second chances. And I also spoke with Rabbi Moesha Frank, who is the rabbi for Eastern Correctional Facility, which is a maximum security prison, an all star. I had spent eight weeks, twice a week with Rabbi Frank, and he’s still a dear friend. He works at the Department of Corrections. And I also spoke with Dancort. Dan, maybe someone you know, Dan is in a New York state assemblyman. He’s running for district attorney of Manhattan. He’s someone that I support. He’s a great guy. And I’m doing a lot of work for him. And, you know, I talked to Dan about it just from a legal standpoint and what it is to be an attorney. And it’s not about taking inventory of the crimes. It’s not about making it personal. It’s also about the fact that once you’re convicted and you go to prison, doesn’t everybody deserve a second chance? I mean, isn’t forgiveness one of the bedrocks of what we’re all about and what humanity should be about? So a lot went into it, Mike. Yes.
S10: In a flippant decision or if you think the prison system is in some ways. Unjust or horrible, the justice should be confinement. Right. The justice isn’t as articulated in the law. It isn’t. Oh, you’ll have these deprivations visited upon you. Or, you know, maybe you’ll be actually someone will be violent with you. Right. That’s not justice. So if you could help someone avoid that, you’re not perpetuating an injustice. You’re actually, in a way, perpetuating justice.
S8: Yes, that’s right. New York State Department of Corrections, the facilities. And this is not about the people who work there. They’re very fine people who work in department corrections. They’re horrible. You know, these are old prisons run on budgets and government funding. You know, it really is. It’s my line that people here are lots of Byzantine blackhole.
S11: Do you have any like nondisclosure or things you can’t say about talking with Weinstein?
S8: I do. All questions can be asked. And if I can’t answer, I won’t answer. But I do have a nondisclosure. I am also one of the authorized health care proxies for him as part of the legal defense team. So, you know, there are certain things I can’t answer, but I’m happy to answer. You know what? I can.
S12: So how was he different? You take away who he is, his notoriety and what he did. How is he different from the other 20 clients you’ve had? He’s Harvey Weinstein, right?
S8: The first thing I mean, is the most famous client I had. Well, first of all, he has more preexisting medical conditions than any other client I have. He’s the oldest client I have by a long shot. He is world famous. He would shock me if he was ever in general population. So you’re dealing with a different path and road than the ordinary inmate would experience in a medium or maximum security prison. So that is a big factor. So just dealing with the fact that he may be in protective custody of me now, he’s currently in a hospital unit. He has preexisting medical conditions, makes this, you know, incredibly different than just dealing with your ordinary client. And we are in the post, Jeffrey EPSTEIN. Right now, the Department of Corrections doesn’t want anyone dying on their watch to rooting for people to get sick and die. This is a totally different sort of journey and path as a result of his fame, as a result of his age, as a result of his medical. As a result of having to protect him. This is a project for the Department of Corrections.
S10: They have a lot on their plate not being in Gen Pop.
S8: So what would his special protective custody, what’s the general term for that adult protective custody unit APC you is the common term or just protective custody?
S11: Is it better or worse to be? Because I think a lot of people heard, oh, he’s not the general population, he’s in protective custody. People are driven by the fact that they generally hate Harvey Weinstein. But people said, oh, that’s unfair. He’s getting off better. What’s your assessment?
S8: Is it better to be in one or the other? One’s getting off better. Right. I mean, anyone who says is getting off better. You know, why don’t they volunteer to go spend some time in a super maximum security prison? I mean, you’re in prison. That’s it. You lost your freedom. You you don’t get to choose. You get told what to do every single day. Sometimes you can’t even do things you need to do, like go to the bathroom when you want to go to the bathroom. So there’s no special treatment. You know, this notion that because he’s in a regional medical unit means he’s better off. So what are you saying? You’d rather be disabled and have spinal stenosis and have had a heart procedure? I mean, that that’s what you call special treatment and protective custody. You’re still in a jail cell. I mean, it’s not like, you know, you. This is the Four Seasons. He’s just in a different wing where there is a lot higher and tighter security. That’s all. Like he’s got a better jail cell and extra accommodations and the food is better. That’s just people being salacious and wanting to, you know, sell papers. That’s all of this.
S11: Will he have fewer interactions with other inmates? They’re the part of where people called you Google and there seem to be some bonding. Will that be afforded to him, that chance, dad, opportunities afforded to everyone?
S8: It’ll just be afforded to him with a much lower number of people. General population, by its nature, means that you are exposed to a much greater degree of inmates and interaction and granted is very different in medium security than max maximum security prison. You’re in a cell. They don’t necessarily have day rooms where you can congregate and mediums you can congregate in. The maximum you’re congregating is either at your location, your job or in the yard if you’re in protective custody. The amount of people that are in protective custody is 90 percent less. And if you’re in a hospital, it’s 98 percent less. So, yes, he’ll have the opportunity to speak with other people, but not at the degree or numbers that he would have used in general population.
S11: Were his questions and concerns to you different from what your other clients would ask you and be concerned about?
S8: Many of them were the same. What is it like? People don’t know about the bus ride. And call it the. Ninety days. What is it like to be powerless and have that feeling of loneliness? How do you get on the phones? How do you get commissary? You know, can you send emails? Now you can in the Department of Corrections. What about clothing? What about books? Know all the same questions that everybody else did. As it is well-documented is well-known as to why scene maintains his innocence. There’s an appeal that’s been filed. So there will be an appeal process in New York state. There is pending litigation in L.A., all which is known. So he has a higher degree of legal needs than my other clients do because he still has open and ongoing litigation. So that needs to be addressed because being able to talk to your lawyers is a fundamental right. But getting phone time is not. I mean, you’re afforded phone time, but that’s not necessarily a fundamental right. So, you know, that’s a very specific thing that we needed to deal with.
S11: When he asked about powerlessness. Yes. I mean, look at you. You were doing well on Wall Street and quote unquote, on top of the world early is doing well on Wall Street. And I’m sure some of your other clients had different degrees of power. But this is Harvey Weinstein and his degree of power is some somewhat hard to fathom. How did you answer his question?
S8: Brutal honesty. Blunt honesty in the first time I met him. And, you know, he’s been very good to me. We have a very respectful relationship. I said, Mr. Weinstein, if you want me to tell you what you want to hear, it has been an incredible honor to meet you. I’m going to shake your hand and I will walk right out the door because I am never going to be the guy that’s going to tell you what you want to hear. I’m going to tell you what you need to hear. And you’re not going to like it a whole lot of times. And that spin the nature of our relationship. And sometimes I have to say things, you know, a couple of times. It’s a very, very dark place. You really lose all your power. And yes, certainly he achieved power and prestige and success at a level that you and I will probably never know. So anyone who’s gone through it all ends up kind of at the same bottom. And it’s very difficult. It’s very difficult for anybody.
S11: You talk to your clients while they’re in prison. If you talked to him since he’s been behind bars. Yes. And it’s been reported he was diagnosed with a corona virus. Do you know how he’s doing with that?
S8: So, you know, he issued a statement and I’m sure you, like everybody else, has been incredibly respectful. It’s amazing. I got no literally no follow up calls when his press secretary, myself and authorized dollar issued a statement. And besides the fact that we would want to protect his privacy and his health condition, privacy due to the HIPA laws, we can’t comment on that. So we can neither confirm nor deny that he did or did not have over 19. Yeah, I want to point out that the Department of Corrections never said that he had covered 19. The people that were reporting he had it were part of the corrections officers union. So neither his legal defense team, of which I’m a part or the Department of Corrections has ever said that he’s had it. That all being said, he’s in very poor health, but he’s in as good of poor health as he can be. And right now, if that’s all you know, he’s being monitored every single day. He did have a heart operation at Bellevue. That’s true. His medical issues are documented. And, you know, there’s a reason. And he’s in the hospital.
S11: From your conversations with him. Does does he reflect to you that what you guys talked about is more or less what’s been coming to pass?
S8: Yes, he knew he had heard it enough for me. And, you know, even if. Yes. To hear it once or twice on a call, which is not about him and it’s anyone, it’s hard to process in there, Mike. I mean, if you wake up and you’re like, where am I? This is like the Bermuda Triangle. It’s it’s brutal. So, yes. And he understands and he comprehends not about Harvey, but just in general.
S11: Are you your client is very worried about how the correctional system is going to handle the Corona virus?
S8: Yeah. I mean, what I would say is we’re worried about the Corona virus. I think it’s unfair to pin it on the correctional facility and more than it would be to pin it on anyone else. I’m stunned that something like this hasn’t happened in the prison systems already, whether it’s covert or some other pandemic or epidemic. Very worried. I don’t use this word loosely or often. It’ll be a miracle if there aren’t thousands of deaths inside the New York state prison system from cobh at 19. None of that because of the Department of Corrections. Just the setup. You’re confined. It’s prison. They’re old. It’s a petri dish. They don’t have the proper sanitizing so bad.
S9: For instance, during during flu season, it hit prisons hard.
S8: Yeah, people get sick all the time, but you don’t. It does need to be flu system and people getting sick in the middle of summer. Seventy five degrees. I mean, forget about social distancing before it even became a thing. I mean, people just cough on foods and meat. You don’t know what anyone’s doing. You know, you don’t know if people just common and wiping the germs on your locker. I mean, it’s a horrible, disgusting place, like. And it’s just why it’s incredible that something like this hasn’t. Really ripped through the prison system before, so the feds are reporting numbers more freely. I’m not saying what’s right or wrong here. But again, I think it’ll be a miracle if you know a thousand people or more don’t die inside the New York State Department of Corrections.
S11: In some ways, you’re the best person to ask. And in some ways, you’re very. Maybe you have your own motivations. But I want to ask you if you think Rikers should be shut down.
S8: Oh, yeah. Rikers needs to be shut down. Yeah, I see that. Just from a humanity standpoint.
S11: What why is it so much worse? There are probably in the current system has to be that sort of transitional facility where people are near New York City and before they go upstate. So what about Rikers? Makes it so terrible.
S8: No particular order. It’s completely unsanitary and unhealthy. It’s ripe for all sorts of disease and infection. That’s one reason needs to be shut down. I mean, there are cracks in the walls and the floor. There’s flooding all over the place, which further makes it unsanitary. Mice run freely in the dorms. Nice feces are all over the place. There’s the sanitary situation with bathrooms is nonexistent. Just the way it’s all set up is ripe for violence. I mean, the amount of violence that goes on in there and corruption that goes on there could be limited in an alternate facility. It’s barbaric. Mike, it is truly barbaric being in there. And if you get one hour of sunlight a day, that’s it. That’s the most you can get. There’s no gym facilities. There’s no rec facilities. It’s cruel and unusual punishment by every definition of how you can define it.
S11: Last question, having your background.
S12: Have you been dealing with quarantine better than most here?
S8: I mean, I say it a lot. I mean, it’s all prospect. I mean, it might it takes a lot to get me. I mean, when you sleep next to someone who has a ship under their bed, it’s very different. I’m no different than anyone else. I mean, I get a little jumpy sometimes. I have taken walks in Central Park just to get fresh air. But I know how to live life a day at a time. And I will live life an hour at a time. I know how to chunk my time and goal post my time. And so while I don’t recommend it to anybody going to prison, well, it certainly was an on my original bucket list. It has provided me an opportunity to change as a human being in ways that I wouldn’t have changed. And it’s provided me with life skills that I wouldn’t have ordinarily had.
S11: Craig Rothfeld is the founder, proprietor of Inside Outside L.S.D., a prison consulting service. Craig, thanks. Oh, I wonder if this takes on a different valence. But thanks so much for your time.
S8: I like that. It’s time on the outside.
S13: It’s free time here. You’re welcome. You know, I’ll close you with this at the time. When I went to visit him at Bellevue, the favorite thing I got to say to the guards was I’m fine as long as the gates open and I can walk back out. So you’re very welcome.
S14: And now the spiel. When can the economy reopen? Similar to the question, when can we get sociology going or what’s the date when we could get public opinion to like me? Or how shall we as a people achieve handsomeness? Because the economy is a concept. It’s a concept that describes the sum total of business inputs and outputs. We even have this concept more than a couple hundred years ago. We all know to some degree that when people talk about the economy, what they mean and what they mean is the general trend of production, economic production making money. So the committee, the council to reopen the economy reminds me less of a panel tasked with achieving a thing that’s possible and more like a combination of J.K. Rowling’s Ministry of Magic and a little bit of this Bruce Springsteen lyric.
S6: So I said to them, hey there, mister, why you hire me? Your folks are the counsel to reopen the economy.
S12: It’s all so very stupid. As if seven people can decree the economy is now open. What is this Soviet lampshade factory? Number seven, we should make orange lampshade. Citizen will buy orange lampshade. Economy reopen. You know who’s gonna decide this? The states, the governors. Mostly they’ll get input from mayors, local officials, their health officials, because they got to decide what’s right for them because they have the levers to actually, quote, reopen the economy. They’ll look at the pandemic spread in their state. They’ll look at their state’s economic needs. They’ll take into account local expertise. And this is very important. They’ll rely on the fact that as governors, they care about all their people, not just a part of their electorate. That only counts because of some crazy Electoral College system, a play so set against this backdrop that there is an economy that can be reopened by seven people, that there is a date when that economy can reopen and that these are the seven people to do so. I mean, just take a second. By the way, I’m going to interrupt myself to call this a turducken of ridiculousness. Those three wacky assumptions. But set against this backdrop, we had Scott Hoorn, head of the FDA, making the rounds of the Sunday shows and the host’s certain hosts to different degrees gave credence to the ridiculous idea that you’re ducking of the ridiculous idea that this committee, this date, this economy can be reopened. Snip snip ribbon faulds, release the doves. You got an economy again. Now, remember, it had been floated that May 1st would be the date for the economy to reopen. So here was Hahn on this week, ABC’s This Week, hosted this week by Martha RADDATZ.
S1: So so what you know and so sorry, sir, give it given what you know is May 1st, a good target when you look at it now.
S15: More say it is a target and obviously we’re hopeful about that target. But I think it’s just too early to be able to tell that a target, but a target that’s not actually being targeted is the target.
S12: How would that, by the way, work in an archery tournament? Would many arrows be fired at that so-called target? Would any hit it best to move on? Right.
S4: But Chuck Todd did not. Chuck Todd asked the question a few ways.
S16: The president would like to lift social distancing guidelines on May 1st. Is that timeline at all realistic in the next three weeks?
S12: The answer to that, that was the original question was we’re really looking at this from a balanced approach. John went on to say it has to be balanced with all of the other issues that have to be taken into account as we move forward. In other words, come on. We don’t know. May 1st is a crazy thing. The guy at the top says, let us move on.
S1: But Chuck Todd wouldn’t make first. Is that it real? Is that a realistic date or not? Or should Americans plan for a lot longer than May 1st or Chuck Todd couldn’t?
S16: All right. It sounds like May 1st is more. Sounds like more aspirational than not a real target.
S12: It’s not. The virus is real. The task force and sounds about reopening on a specific date. That is not real. And it’s good that it’s not real. Let me say this. We should not be sending workers to slaughter based on a calendar date as opposed to how many people are actually dying of corona virus. So it does seem that the White House actually is un inclined to have many, many more people killed, blessedly so. But please stop wasting our time with phony dates that will be deemed aspirational. Once it’s clear that the pandemic has not abated, stop with the issuing of optimistic dates that you can call optimistic that you could call hopeful. Because what we’re facing is a phenomenon entirely unaffected by anyone’s hopes or wishes or optimism. Steve Hahn, FDA commissioner, by the way, was named in a large New York Times story. No, not the Red Dawn story 1 2 weeks ago is pretty much or a large reason for the lack of testing. The title was The Lost Month How a Failure to Test Blinded the U.S. to Cover 19. Let me read you the Steve Horn references. Dr. Steven Hons first day as FDA commissioner came just six weeks before Alexei’s are declared a public health emergency on January 30.
S17: First, it would fall to the newly arrived Dr. Horn to help build a national capacity for testing by academic and private labs a little while further. But Dr. Horn took a cautious approach. He was not proactive in reaching out to manufacturers and instead deferred to his scientists. Following the FDA is often cumbersome methods for approving medical screening. Little later, even though researchers around the country quickly began creating tests that could diagnose Koven, 19. Many said they were hindered by the FDA approval process. The new tests sat unused in labs around the country. The article talked about Stanford University, where, quote, the Stanford clinical lab would not begin testing Corona virus samples until early March when Dr. Hahn finally relaxed the rules.
S12: So maybe instead of May 1st, they could have spent their time reading some of those sentences, followed by. Have you improved the process? Dr. Hahn? Looking back, is there anything else you could have done? Or maybe a very mean. How many people would you estimate died because of the hurdles your agency kept in place? I think questions like those would have been better than obsessing about May 1st. Of course, questions like those would have targeted Steve Hahn, though in this case, the targeting would be accurate.
S18: And that’s it for today’s show, Margaret Kelly is the jet’s associate producer. She wonders if, given today’s current sensitivities, would Mae West be a realistic star? Mae West. Realistic or aspirational?
S19: Daniel Schrader, just producer. He’s chairing the committee to reopen Sharper Image. He needs a massage chair with a built in desk set, and he figures that retailer would have been perfect for his needs. The gist, that guy without a mask who coughed on us isn’t just some inconsiderate asshole. He’s actually the committee to UN Reopen America. adepero du Brew. And thanks for listening.