S1: The following podcast contains explicit language. Hello and welcome to Mom and Dad are fighting Slate’s parenting podcast for Thursday, October 1st, the Corruptible Toddler Edition. I’m Dan Boyce.
S2: I’m a writer at Slate Dotcom and the author of the book How to Be a Family. I’m the dad of Laura, who’s 15 and Harbor who’s 13. And we all live in Arlington, Virginia. This week. Djamila is out and we are joined by a special guest host. Please introduce yourself.
S3: Hey, I’m Maya Feller and I am a registered dietitian, nutritionist and the author of the Southern Comfort Food Diabetes Cookbook. I have two kids, Parker, who is 18 and Unni’s, who’s seven. Parker is not 18, is actually 13. You see how it like advanced with age. And I’m taping from Brooklyn, New York.
S4: Welcome to you and your adult child.
S5: I know I’m out. I guess doodler. I’m like, so shocked. I’m like 13, 18. What’s the difference?
S6: Or since I’ve been here, I’m Elizabeth New Kim and I write the Homeschool and Family Travel Blog that starts Goose. I’m the mom to three little Henry eight of six and Teddy three. And I’m located in Navarre, Florida.
S4: Hello, everyone. My I just want to confirm that your cookbook is the Southern Comfort Food Diabetes Cookbook, not the Southern Comfort Food Diabetes Cookbook sponsored by Southern Comfort Bourbon.
S6: That’s good.
S5: Well, depending on how you’re feeling at the time of day, who knows?
S4: I suppose we’re so happy to have you back on the show. Thanks so much for joining us. Today. We are answering a question about balancing extracurriculars with middle school homework. Plus, we’ve got some advice for a mom who is absolutely convinced that the kids next door are corrupting. Her toddler has always we have triumphs and fails. We have recommendations. I mean, we also have announcements and stuff like that. But probably the triumphs and fails recommendations are what you’re most interested in. But let’s start with triumphs and fails. Elizabeth, what do you have for us this week?
S7: OK, so I have a fail for me, but it’s a triumph for Jeff. So at the end of the day, a triumph for the family. So what again? Yeah, what again? I’m giving him this gift of telling everyone that he was right and I was wrong. All right. So on Saturday, we needed to get out of Florida because that’s something we frequently do. So we drove to the mecca of Dothan, Alabama, just for a change of scenery.
S6: And it is it does actually have some interesting stuff to see. Fort Rucker is there and they have a helicopter museum, and that was great. My kids love that. And most of its outside because I’ve got all the stuff parked out there. Kelsi Bernard Clark, who is a Top Chef winner, actually has a restaurant there. That’s lovely. And you can get takeout instead of this park. So that was all great. But on the itinerary was the Wire Grass Museum of Art. And when we lived in Europe, we took the kids to art museums all the time. It went very well, but we haven’t done that in like two and a half years. And so I’m thinking they’re out of practice. I keep telling Jeff, like, this is never going to work. He’s like set on going to this art museum. And I’m just thinking like an art museum in both in Alabama, like everything about this screams not really friendly for the three, eight and six year old. So we show up.
S7: It’s like the tiniest little museum built into the old like water works. There’s no one there. Of course it’s free. We go inside and my kids are just like taken with the fourteen pieces of art they have because their main exhibition is closed and it’s just their permanent collection. But they are so into it. They asked to go out to the car and get paper and pen and they all three of them just find a picture and lay on the floor and for like twenty five minutes just drew. And then the lady running the museum is so, I guess excited that maybe someone is there, maybe that children are not destroying, you know, the art museum, that she is like, let me go get something for you and gives my kids these wonderful art packets that they’re handing out because they they’re like going to say she just gave them a painting.
S5: Yeah. She’s like, take anything you want.
S8: But it was like this amazing experience. So Henry like made copies of the art he saw and her did like these weird interpretations. And then the woman asked about what they were drawing and they all she listened as they explained them to her. I mean, it was just this like, wonderful experience. And then she pointed us to like a brewery in town with a beer garden.
S6: And we went there after. And, you know, while sitting there, Jeff was like, So aren’t you glad we went to the art museum?
S7: And I was like, you were so happy. I you know, it’s like, is the home school mom. I’m like, oh, my gosh, this is great.
S6: They haven’t forgotten all these skills as me, like, you know, wife to Jeff who had bitched about the art museum for the two hour drive to do with an Alabama, a piece of me died. But yeah, overall, a wonderful trip that, you know, I can check off as educational thanks to the Wire Grass Art Museum.
S4: While I’m here to tell you, Elizabeth, the next she.
S5: The Pensacola Museum of Art, we can’t get there anymore because the bridge collapsed before the bridge collapsed. Of course it did. Of course it did. Just crashing right down my bad.
S4: But if you if if you can borrow one of the Air Force’s boats to get to the Museum of Art, they have a great looking at exhibit right now called I Forgot to Laugh Humor in Contemporary Art that has art by a number of interesting art. That sounds great, including Leslie Friedman and Miss Pussycat. I can guarantee that at least one thing in there will be so obscene that your children will be like, what is she doing with her hair? You’ll have to run out the door, but it’ll be great.
S7: Sounds right up my alley. And yes, perfect material for a drive for miles when I figure out how to get there. I will take the children and report back.
S9: Excellent. Maya, what about you? Do you have a triumph or fail?
S10: So, you know, in so many fail since we’ve started this remote school, just just so many.
S11: So at the end of last year, my husband was in with the seven year old and they were working on some math. And he said to her, you know, what is four plus seven? And her answer was no. So that kind of set us up for where we are is not exactly just straight up. No. So it’s only gotten better. So over the summer, we plotted with another family because we live in New York and we needed to kind of hold on to our sanity. And it was honestly the best thing that we’ve done. We have this great setup where on Tuesdays the seven year old goes to their house and then on Fridays, both of their children come to our house. And then all the kids, they work together. They’re at the same school. So they do some lessons together. And it’s pretty sweet, actually. Fridays is a day where our kids have just morning circle by Zoome and then usually they have like art or dance. So it’s the extracurriculars. Right. And it’s also a day to catch up on work. So the friend of my daughter had finished her homework for the week and my husband said to them, OK, well, when you’re together, you know, work together, finish up the work and then we’ll do some art. And so I guess they did work together. I never went and checked because I was doing something else. And then my husband comes down to the kitchen and hands me the workbook. Now I open the workbook and I take a look at it. And it is the most exquisite penmanship I have ever seen, really, you know, questionable from the four plus seven equals no child because we were like, what is this? And so we say, what did she do this or did her friend do it? We told them to work together. I guess they did technically. But so my daughter says this is her answer. Oh, no. I wrote everything. She just told me exactly what to write. Well, that’s very smart. Incredibly smart. So, you know, from our perspective, it was a parenting fail, but a win for her because she really figured out how to use the community to get her homework done in an effective way. It was a learning experience for us that we need to be careful with our words when we say work together and that we have to really check the homework immediately thereafter. It takes a village. It takes a village.
S4: Yeah, I think that that’s not that bad. Like you, I’m sure. Talk to her about what it means to do your own work. But like, I bet she learned the material better than she would have otherwise. I bet she knows it now. I think it’s like a very low stakes fail. She probably won’t be kicked out of school for it.
S11: No, no. Yes, I totally agree. Yes, it’s a very low stakes fail. So maybe it’s a win, right?
S4: Low stakes fails at this point are basically Triumph’s. Exactly. That’s a good one today.
S9: I’m also talking about remote learning event, but actually I’m talking about a triumph to my own surprise, which is true even more of my own surprise. It is about math. Lyra, my older daughter is in tenth grade and is in Algebra two, which I remember is one of the final math classes that I was good at before I got to the math classes that I was bad at like calculus. But, you know, all that material is essentially completely left my brain. I have a vague memory of like what you do when you are raising a power to a power. But most of it is sort of just fallen out of my brain. But Lyra has gotten into the section about simplifying and factoring polynomials, you know, which is the thing that I’m sure in tenth grade I did for months and months and months, but I had no memory of ever doing it ever since then. But she really needed help. She was really having. Trouble with this, she was having trouble getting it to stick in her brain and she asked me, you know, can you help? And she asked me on multiple days, almost always when I was right in the middle of some kind of work that I had to do or some kind of deadline I was trying to get by. My triumph is that I like worked it out. Like I managed to carve out time sometimes in the middle of a workday. Like today, actually, I prepared for this podcast late because I spent half an hour working with her on polynomials right before our quiz. Sometimes it was on the weekends. Sometimes I was waking up early in the morning to work with her. But like this was like a big hurdle for her in her math class. It was a thing that she just couldn’t get and she knew she wouldn’t be able to do any of the rest of the stuff if she couldn’t figure out how to, you know, factor three item polynomial or remember the difference of cubes or whatever. I’m a person who doesn’t really like helping with homework, usually because because it’s annoying and because I find it frustrating and because I find the homework so irritating and I don’t get the math or whatever, and because I often lack patience and I think drive them crazy. But I feel like I actually like sort of taught this like I relearned it with her. I got her to help me relearn it by, like, teaching me these things as she went through them in her textbook and in the various interactive teaching tools that they have, which seem to really help her. She and I work together in a very constructive way so that she got better at these things and could handle them on her own. When the time came for the quiz, it was just like a moment of high drama for her in math class, which turned into a no drama, just basic me helping her with a thing that I never would have thought I could have helped her with. So, like, it was really nice.
S4: I so great success may never happen again. And she never did help in math again.
S11: But now I do think she would be available for Parker.
S4: Yeah, I’m just saying, you know, I mean, I think her rates are very reasonable. You know, it’s like whatever the next thing is in Algebra two, I have no idea if I’ll remember that. Like, I’m sure at some point, you know, I think that there’s a whole I can’t even remember the terms anymore. But I know that there were points in algebra to where I just sort of lost it and just couldn’t keep up anymore. But like with this right now, I’m like a fucking expert at factoring polynomials. So if anyone needs that done, just like let me know for the next two to three days, this is going to be really solid in my head, like the way that I understood tranches for two days after reading Liar’s Poker by Michael Lewis. And then it all fell out of my head immediately afterwards.
S7: Well, right now I haven’t nailed the Facebook group is going to be flooded with questions for you by the time this episode goes live. I don’t remember this shit. It’s going to be God. Sorry, people misunderstand. I’m going to call you to remain on factored. Yeah. Head tonight.
S5: As soon as we’re done with this, I’m going to get all of that information.
S1: Send me some fucking polynomials. I don’t care.
S12: Oh, all right.
S1: We’re going to answer some questions on the podcast, of course. But before we answer those questions, we’re going to talk some business. We’ve got a very exciting announcement. Mom and dad are fighting live, is coming to you on Facebook and YouTube Wednesday, October 14th. That’s right. We’re finally having a live show in our new Zoome live show era. It’s at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Mark your calendars. You will get to see our faces. We might get to see yours. You can ask us questions live. You can hear us yell at each other live. You can hear Djamila be exasperated with me live. It’ll be really fun. Don’t miss it. Wednesday, October 14th, 8:00 p.m. on Slate’s Facebook and YouTube channels, go to Slate Dotcom Slash live for links and more information. If you need your Djamila fix before then, then tune in tonight, Thursday, October 1st. Shigemura Slate Live Show. The kids are asleep tonight. We’ll be joined by Open Mike EGL for some laughter, banter and cocktails to decompress after the week of debate discussion. Oh man it’s going to be a week of debate discussion. Decompression will be crucial. Tune in at 10:00 pm Eastern, 7:00 p.m. Pacific. We’ll have links to Slate’s YouTube and Facebook pages and our show notes or check out Slate Dotcom live to keep up with all of Slate’s parenting content and our show sign up for the Slate parenting newsletter. It’s the best place to be notified about. Ask a teacher. New care and feeding. New kids are asleep. And yes, new episodes of mom and Dad are fighting, including special bonus episodes we’ve got lined up for the next couple of weeks. Sign up at Slate Dotcom Slash parenting email and you’ll just get an email from me every week with some jokes, some stories and some good links. Check it out. Slate dot com slash parenting email if you want even more parent. Advice, you can join the parenting group on Facebook, it is super active. It is super moderated. It is super fun and super friendly. Just search for sleep parenting on Facebook. Let’s actually do our first listener question. As always, it is being read by the fabulous Shasha Leonhard Middle School.
S13: I’m at a loss. My son is in his fourth week back at school, starting seventh grade in person. But as some kids are online, all their homework is done with their chrome books and there’s a lot of it. He starts as soon as he gets home at three thirty some nights. It’s not too bad. And he’s done by dinnertime. But many nights he has to pause his homework to join us for dinner. I know it’s homework the entire time because he’s doing it in front of us in the kitchen and we control his devices so he can’t be sneaking switch or iPad when he’s supposed to be studying. He’s only in one extracurricular activity, Boy Scouts, one evening per week. When he goes to scouts, we leave at six, 15, and he’s usually home by eight. He’s so tired every morning he has an eight thirty PM bedtime. So what do you do when homework is not finished? By the time the kid has to leave for an extracurricular, do they skip scouts or dance or swim team or whatever it is, or do they stay up late finishing homework and studying when they get home? In middle school, is this work too much or is he just slower than the other kids at it? Is this reach out to the teacher zone to discuss workload? To make it worse, he just told me he has an F in science, despite all this time he’s spent every day, he somehow managed to miss turning in a few assignments. I’ve been trusting him to get things done, but he’s also in front of us. As he does them, we help him when necessary. Do I need to check every single item he’s working on? We have two other kids to help to. My husband and I both work full time. We’re both professors, and the afternoon and evening hours are spent helping the kids with homework, then we have our own grading to do when they’re in bed. Wash, rinse, repeat. I’m exhausted. Sorry, this has turned into a bit of event, what would you do about the extracurricular activity bonus if anyone wants to address the event? Thank you, Maya.
S11: Take it away. All right. Well, there is so much here. And as a fellow parent and parent who had a kid who entered into middle school and there was like a huge academic leap, I remember when Parker and Parker is in a dual language international school, he transitioned from lower school to what they call middle school. The academic jump was staggering. It was so shocking. He went I remember he went from having these books that were what I would refer to as like friendly learning material to like serious textbooks. And it did absolutely take him some time to get into the routine of a managing his time and figuring out, you know, how to keep up with this new increased workload and also to transition from the style of books. So now I have no idea if that’s the same case, but I do think in US schools or schools that follow US curriculums, there is a significant academic jump between lower school and middle school. So I would say two things right now. Any extracurricular activity, and this is coming from someone who lives in New York City is so important for our kids because there’s just a lot of stress that’s happening. And so it’s a time where they actually just get to have fun and be engaged in a way where there’s not a heavy level of responsibility on them. So I would personally say absolutely keep the extracurricular activities. I think that there has to be a conversation, a maybe with the teachers and the other parents in the cohort to find out. Are the other kids in the class actually having a hard time with the workload? Is this something that’s universal across the board? And then also, if the teachers are aware now, granted, we’re four weeks into school, right? So there could be a bit of a learning curve that’s happening. The other thing that I would say is talk to the kid, ask him how he’s doing. Right. Like, how is this new workload? How is this transition back to school? How does he feel about the new style of learning? I think that there is an opportunity for lots of questions to be asked. And yes, I know it’s a big thing to do, especially because we’re all working from home. And, my goodness, I’m so empathetic to the professors, especially for the fact that they’re full professors and they have these major caseloads and they’re teaching all day long. And then the last thing they want to do is like, you know, engage in that same level of teaching with their kids. But I do think, you know, they’ve got to talk to him, talk to the teachers and the other parents within the community to figure out what exactly is happening. So that’s all to say, keep the extracurricular and open the lines of communication.
S6: My I totally agree with you. I think under no circumstance would you get rid of the extracurricular. So especially since there’s only one like so often that is the thing that is like engaging the kid and keeping them happy and grounded and safe. In terms of, like advice for the situation, I think this is a case in which you should reach out to the teacher and try to figure out if this is just, you know, your kid or if all kids are struggling.
S7: I mostly, though, would like to take my time to join in her rant about homework, because as I felt like I read this and I thought, yeah, I’m probably going to homeschool forever because I just really hate the idea that these kids are like in school or in front of a computer or whatever the situation is all day, and then are given so much, you know, work that you’re thinking about taking away.
S8: Anything else they do like that to me is fundamental to the reason I like to homeschool, because it just doesn’t take that much time to do these things.
S6: And I, I know there are like reasons for homework, like the opportunity to do things independently, which obviously this is something your student is struggling with if they’re not turning in assignments. So that is a good practice. But there are other ways to get this independence where they do work on their own and other ways to get the opportunity to test the subject or see what they they know.
S8: I’m just wondering, like, what happens that you’re in this classroom, you know, you’re at school all day, and then you come home with just as much work to do? I worry that that takes away these opportunities to, like, read books that might interest them to participate in other activities, even if that’s just like being outside and going for a walk and observing nature, cooking with your family, having meal time with your family. However, that looks I get very from. Ahead in these situations where the home market is becoming the everything at the exclusion of everything else, because I can’t imagine, like if you had a job where you went to the job all day and then came home and did just as much work at home as you did at your job, you would be very, very frustrated that there was nothing else and very, very.
S4: Described my job.
S7: I just like what, you know, like what else does this kid have? I don’t know. Thank you, letter writer, for pushing me further into the home school. You know, I like accidentally ended up in this home school camp. And I read this and I’m like, well, we’re never going back to school. But anyway.
S11: Well, I have to agree with you. You know, I do think especially right now in pandemic times, that there’s this idea somehow in school settings where they feel that kids have to do the work so that they don’t, quote unquote, fall behind. And what I’m going to say is like super controversial because I feel like for some kids that it’s a very real and true risk. And then there are some kids who have a different type of support where that might not be the case. And what we really need to do is differentiate for our learners so that people who need more support, I mean, get it in person in comparison to people who might not need that same level of support rather than just handing everybody, you know, piles of homework and saying have at it.
S4: All right. There’s two possibilities here. And you’re both right that this letter writer should talk to the teacher to ascertain which of the two possibilities is correct. Either the teachers intend for their students to be doing this much work each night or they don’t. And it’s just taking this letter writer son this much time to do the homework for any number of possible reasons. Seventh grade in general, Maya, you’re correct, is usually when a heavier homework load suddenly appears and it can be a real strain for kids and for parents. Good teachers treat the seventh grade, particularly the beginning of seventh grade, has a time to introduce the notion of a heavier homework load, but also to be flexible about it, to be very forgiving about it, and to introduce the kinds of executive functioning skills that it takes to manage and handle that kind, of course, load so that you’re not, for example, forgetting to turn in assignments or not doing assignments that you were supposed to have done. If I had to guess, I would guess that most of this kid’s teachers would be horrified to hear that his homework has taken him this long and have no interest in him doing homework this much. And so if you reach out to them, the first thing that might happen is that they might, a, agree to lessen the homework load for him. B, tell him or maybe remind him because it’s possible this was the policy for many of them already, that he doesn’t have to do all the homework, that he can just do the things that are most useful to him, that they’re not going to penalize him, at least in the beginning of the year, for not turning certain things in, although the F in science does not suggest that the science teacher at least is feeling that forgiving or to work out a plan with you, the parent, to make it so that the work that he is doing is not excluding every other thing from his life, because in general, any teacher who is up on the pedagogy about homework and its uses and values understands that that level of homework, except under very specific, you know, kind of like International Baccalaureate type circumstances is not actually useful to students. So, yeah, the first step is to talk to a teacher and then depending on the answer you get, you have to think about what the next step is. My hope is that the answer from the teachers is we don’t want to be doing this much homework either. So let’s work on different ways to help ease the burden and also to help him. And you be better able to handle the kind of work that he has to start doing. If you’re getting the other answer, if the answer is, oh, yeah, this is the amount of homework I’m going to be doing, and this is the kind of work that being a seventh grader in our school requires, then you’ve got a bunch of other decisions to make. You can decide that you want to talk to the school administrators about this or to other parents or to the parent teacher association. You can decide that you want him to go to a different school or to homeschool him, as Elizabeth is leaning towards doing right now. You can tell your kid that in seventh grade, it doesn’t fucking matter what grade you get. And if you know the material and you get a bad grade because you didn’t do the homework that you and I both understand is busywork that doesn’t help. I don’t care. That’s a hard sell for some kids. For some kids, it’s the easiest of all sells. But that’s a whole different set of. Questions that you have to answer, the other thing you’re asking about, you’ve already been given the correct answer by Elizabeth and Meyer, which is do not take this kid out of scouts under any circumstances. And on the days when he goes to scouts and he gets home and he’s got to just a shitload of homework facing him, I think you are totally within your rights to tell him do homework until eight thirty and then go to bed. And if it’s not done, I’m going to send a letter to your teachers saying, hey, my son had a thing he had to do last night, so I forgive him for not doing his homework and you should do the same. But my hunch is that when you talk to the teachers, you’re going to find a very receptive audience for your complaints. And I think you should consider going into the conversation, not assuming that they are your enemies on this front, but that they want the same thing that you do.
S6: Yeah, I was actually going to say to revisit the bonus episode where we talk to the teachers and so many of them said, like, these are the conversations we need to have with parents that parents don’t have with us like we’re on your team. They probably don’t want him not doing scouts either. And so being able to have that conversation, I think also there’s an opportunity to have your son be part of that conversation with the teachers, because learning to advocate for yourself in these situations, I think is is really important because this is a lesson like throughout life. There are times in which, you know, if in fact what is happening is there is just too like this is what they’ve given and he can’t get it done or whatever. But the situation is not one in which the teacher is just like, well, this is what we do get with the program. The opportunity to be able to tell someone this is more than I have time to do is a lesson that I think even a lot of adults need to be able to have. And I can specifically remember in law school, just like the you know, you’re not called on that often in law school. And when you are, you’re expected to know everything. But usually the day after you’ve been called on, you have this, like, respect. I was caught on like three days in a row in this class. And I remember like, yeah, looking at the teacher and just being like, you have called on me two days in a row. I honestly did not do the reading for here. Instead, I caught up and reading in some like somewhere else and him just being like, OK, fair enough.
S8: Just the fact of, you know, saying I’m trying and here’s what I’m doing. But it’s, it’s not working and I need help putting a plan in place. It’s going to work or like it just didn’t get done. And I promise to be prepared to, you know, tomorrow. But I think teaching kids to have those conversations are important, like how many people do you know at their jobs who just have too much and are unable to say this is too much?
S11: Right. I agree. You know, the other thing, too, as I look back over this question, to have an F in science four weeks into the school year is it’s a lot that’s heavy, you know, because then that means there’s already been some kind of testing to determine that this child has f as the mark. And so I really do think that that’s a conversation, as everyone has said. Right. With the teacher. And to figure out also, too, what are the expectations within the school around homework and grades and testing and at what cadence do they happen? And it’s going to vary depending on the place that your kid is.
S4: I have a guess that that F is meaningless and that one missed assignment. Yeah, exactly. Like it’s another function of like parent view or whatever your school’s technology is that is made available where parents can see what a kid’s grade is in real time. And in the first couple of weeks of school, that grade means nothing. Right? Right. The kid missed two assignments. They definitely have an F because they probably haven’t had a test about all the other advice I’m giving you. I would also tell you, like log out of parent view and don’t log back in for four more weeks.
S11: Seriously, I have to agree with that. I mean, it’s it’s in my opinion, I’m like that. Subscene School started four weeks ago. Leave him alone.
S4: I mean, the teachers have to input this stuff like they’re required to. And parent view has to be made available to parents because otherwise parents complain every day to the administrators. But like, we don’t all have to check parent view every day. And it’s often beneficial not to. Yeah, yeah.
S11: I couldn’t tell you any of the grades that my children have at this point on, you know, at this point in September with school starting. I mean, I know what’s happening with the seven year old and how she gets her homework done.
S4: But I can not only tell you Lyras math grade, I can factor it. OK, thank you. Letter writer. Good luck to you and to your middle schooler. I think things will get better. Keep an eye on him, keep an eye on his executive functioning.
S1: But I do think that having him good advice, Elizabeth, and you talk to these teachers will really help. We hope this helps. If you are listening and thinking, hey, these folks might have a solution to my problem, well, send your problem away. We love problems. We love solving problems. We hate problems. So we solve them. Email us at mom and dad. It’s late dotcom or poster to these late parenting Facebook groups.
S7: I’d argue that sometimes we make them worse.
S5: Well, that’s also a service we provide little to.
S4: All right, let’s move on to our second question once again, being read by the inimitable Shasha Leonhard.
S13: I need advice. A new family with three children is renting the house next door. The two younger children, ages seven and 10, are constantly in the front yard and on their driveway playing without supervision. Tonight, we were also out front with our child, who was a year and nine months old. These kids were straight up playing in our front yard, messing with sticks and plans and showing our child some questionable actions. I don’t want to be the mean neighbor, but get off my lawn. If one of those kids falls down our front steps or trips and falls into the rocks under a tree or whatever, who is going to help? Their parents are never outside. My son is such a little absorber that their actions will rub off on him. What do I do? Do we just put up a no trespassing sign and hope they get the hint? Do I have to talk to them about parenting their kids? Do I just hope they will hate us and move? Being an adult sucks sometimes.
S6: First, dear letter writer, it’s perfectly appropriate for a seven and 10 year old to be playing outside without supervision. Do not come be my neighbor because my three year old often plays outside without supervision. That being said, I think it is also appropriate for you to decide how your yard is played on or used. I think that the best thing to do, however, is not to be passive aggressive about it and not to frame your conversation to your next door neighbor as a discussion on parenting, because in general, that usually does not go over well.
S7: People people do not really like to hear their parenting about and lots of people with twenty one massive parenting experience. Trust me, when your children are four, you will be ready to send them out the door to play and hope that it’s mostly OK.
S6: However, if they are destroying your yard, I think that what you can do is go over and have a conversation with the parents about your property and saying, you know, we don’t want them playing in the bushes, they’re destroying the landscaping, whatever that is. If it’s like they’re running around with sticks, just wait. Because you’re approaching the age at which running around with sticks is something that is very fun. But I think just having a conversation with the neighbors to say this is how we’d like our lawn treated or we don’t really want your kids playing on the grass, whatever that is, that has to do with your yard and what you observe them doing.
S8: I also think it’s always OK to ask kids to get off your lawn and not necessarily in they like, hey, get off my lawn.
S6: But you can just say, you know, could you please play in your yard or please don’t step on our plants like a seven and 10 year old can take direction. They are also of the age that as long as your smile while you’re saying it or just don’t scream, they’ll probably just be like, OK, and run the other way. I mean, I think that’s kind of like how kids are. They’re playing and they start playing in other people’s yards or they run out of their boundaries because the game has just taken in there and you kind of have to tell them where the boundaries are and have them go play again. But in general, I think just have a conversation.
S7: But also like, is it really the worst thing for your two year old to learn to run around outside with a stick? I feel like that’s maybe something we all should be learning.
S6: But I don’t know, maybe I’m clearly the, you know, hippie parent. Go send your kids out by themselves to play my. What do you think?
S11: I completely have to agree with you 100 percent. And I don’t know if it’s because I hang out with a whole bunch of people who believe in, like, free ranging, you know, where we say like, these are the boundaries of the kids and it’s like miles radius. But I do think, just as you said, Elizabeth, that the letter writer can go to their neighbor and have a cordial discussion. I think it’s really important, as you said, not to be passive aggressive and to be really clear that the conversation is about space and boundaries and to go without anger. Right. Because sometimes when we approach our neighbors, if they’ve done something that we find frustrating, we’re already kind of fired up. And we can create a problem where the neighbor doesn’t even know or isn’t even aware. You know, I take these various classes with facilitators and they say, how do you call people in rather than calling them out? This was this would be an opportunity to engage in that type of behavior where you’re thinking about with the neighbor like, hey, we’re going to live next door to each other. And, you know, this is how I want my space to be respected and to use that type of language instead of being hyper aggressive. And I also think, too, in when talking to the kids and often I do this if I meet children that I don’t know when they’re engaged in something that I that is uncomfortable for me and directly affects my kids, I just say, you know, this is not something that I would like you to do and I really want to talk to your adult about it. Would you be able to bring me to them so that the kid knows that it’s not that you’re punishing them, but that it’s more like an open conversation? Of course, that’s going to take like deep breaths on the side of the person who feels like that seven and 10 year old are doing something absolutely terrible by running around. I mean, sometimes I look out my window in the backyard and 13 year old when the garden wasn’t finished, he dug a. Oh, no, I tell you, he does the biggest hole you’ve ever seen in your life where like where are you going? What are you doing? And then I was like, well, you know, there could be worse things, right? So I think that’s also important to remember. And I have been saying this across the board for us. All right. Now in twenty twenty with everything that’s happening, this is a time to be kind to each other. Know. So as we engage in these kind of stressful conversations, remember that we never know what’s happening on the other side of the fence.
S5: What other questionable behavior running with these what the two year old running with a stick?
S4: Are they smoking? Are they practicing law without a license?
S5: I think this letter writer, I think there that sounds like the neighbor.
S7: No, no judgments, no judgment, no matter where you came to us.
S1: I think that you need to get over the fact that there are kids in your neighborhood who are playing like normal kids. If you want to be a part of this neighborhood and be a neighbor to not just these people who just moved in next door with three children, but to all the families in your neighborhood who have kids, you should get used to the idea that the kids are going to be playing and doing kids kid things around your child. And eventually, if you’re lucky, your child will be playing and doing good things with those kids. But like the idea that your child is like a precious doll who cannot possibly be exposed to older children who are cheating on their taxes or whatever is like, that’s not cool. And I mean, you guys are very, very nice to this parent.
S5: Dan, I’m going to bring you other charges. Playground. I’m going to let you out on the Brooklyn parents. I’m just going to let you out on all those Park Slope parents.
S1: I have a long conversation with them about how you really knew it was a boys hat. But OK, the point is, friend, parent, I think you need to take a deep breath. Not worry about whether kids are in your yard, not worrying about whether you will be legally liable if they fall down your front steps and just be fine with kids being around the net results over your parenting life of kids being around is going to be so much higher than any net like damage you suffer as a result that it is time for you to start becoming comfortable with the world of children, which now includes your child and all the other children on Earth, many of whom will want to be around doing kid stuff. So, yes, if you are so protective of your lawn that you need to have a conversation with your neighbors about how their kids shouldn’t be on your lawn, go for it. That is your right. As an American, it is definitely a way to make them think that you are like being uptight and weird. So I wouldn’t recommend it unless, as you say, your goal is to make them hate you so much that they move, which maybe, I guess you could do. But is that really your goal? I don’t think it actually is.
S4: I hope I mean, this is a known you don’t know who is going to move in, you know, do you want to you know, they might have they might have kids who play musical instruments.
S7: Yeah, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
S6: I do want to say, though, if they don’t want to have their child around, the easiest answer to is like, look out your window. And if the kids are playing out there, don’t choose. That is your outdoor play time or go for a walk in your mouth or go in your backyard or whatever. So I think, like, if that’s really the issue, like you are in control of of yourself and your child and where you are. So you can always choose something else.
S11: If this is like so offensive, like dance at if they’re like chain smoking and you feel like you can’t address it and you don’t want your two year old to pick that up, then go out there some other time from like the Brooklyn, New York perspective, there are a lot of parents who are pretty particular about what their kids see and how they view interactions. So what I’ve learned to say to folks, you know, in the playgrounds that I frequent or the public spaces that I am granted, this is a private situation. But, you know, I kind of steer clear and I just let them do what feels right for them, which is probably the passive thing to do because this person is fired up and they’re coming in hot, maybe digging a hole, maybe they do one of this 10 year old.
S5: There’s also a hole bigger and, you know, just tell them not to dig a fucking hole or get them to book holes. That will really. And that’s right. That’s right. You don’t have to dig it. One of the hole.
S4: If you get really good at digging holes, eventually you’ll find evidence of treasure like in the book holes, but also you’ll go to jail. All right, listen, I’m sorry for yelling at you. I, too, was coming in hot. Listen to Elizabeth Amyas advice, and in 10 years from now, think back on my advice and think, oh, Dan was right. If you other listeners want me to yell at you, please send in your question to mom and dad at Slate Dotcom or do what this listener did and post on our Facebook group, where certainly I’m sure no one yelled at them. All right. Let’s move on to some recommendations. This is the part of the show where we recommend things that we like or approve of. Just, you know, you’ll get it. You’ll get it as we go along. Let’s just launch into it. Elizabeth, what do you have for us?
S6: I have a hippy dippy book recommendation that we’re loving. It’s called Can You Hear the Trees Talking Discovering the Hidden Life of the Forest. And it’s actually a children’s adaption of The Hidden Life of Trees, which is a book for adults, but it covers everything that trees do with beautiful pictures. It also has little activities that are in the book. It’s super fun to do with your kids. It talks about why the leaves change. Also talks about how trees talk to each other, which is something I didn’t know in supercool. But the other thing I love is that the publisher has activities that you can download. So like a you can easily make it a unit study or just something to do for fun. My kids have loved like crossword puzzles and stuff related to the book and going through and finding it. So again, it’s called Can You Hear the Trees Talking, Discovering the Hidden Life of the Forest.
S4: I love that. I love the idea of Richard Powers of the understorey. But for children, does it get into like spiking trees so Logger’s can’t cut them down or chaining yourself to trees or any of that stuff?
S6: Now, it really just fires that love of trees such that you naturally find those other things.
S1: Great, good. Glad to hear it.
S5: Maya, what are you recommend?
S11: That there’s so many things to recommend and I’m actually not going to recommend something that’s food related. This one is been a hit in our house and it’s epic. It’s an online platform where kids can actually read e-books, but they can also have the books read to them. And one of the reasons that we’ve been loving epic in our house, even my 13 year old enjoys it, is because you have people narrating these books and you get all sorts of different voices until you hear different people telling these stories and you can kind of dive into it. And I think that right now my kids are looking for a way other than being on a screen where they can just shut their eyes and hear a story that takes them to a faraway place. And Epic has been incredible. I know that during school times, I think if the school signs up for it, the kid will have full access to it. But they’ve also made it complementary for families. So it’s really great. You can, of course, if you want pay for a version of it yourself, but you can just use the basic kind of entry level and have access to all of these great narrated stories as well as e-books.
S6: I want to say to you that I love, like audio books for when the kids are playing or like if you’re home all day with them and doing a meal time, like you can sit them down and have them do their quiet play or eat snack or whatever and turn something on. And that really seems to keep kids quiet and engaged. So this sounds like an awesome I haven’t checked out epic, but I’m definitely going to. This sounds awesome.
S11: It’s fantastic. We really love it. The seven year old, sometimes she is just laying in her bed listening to stories. And then I listen to the narrator and it’s just like this rich, luscious voice that I can get this great image. Yeah, it’s fantastic.
S4: Great recommendation. I am recommending a documentary which is premiering on Netflix. Tomorrow is October 2nd, Friday, October 2nd. It’s called Dick Johnson is Dead. It is directed by filmmaker named Kirsten Johnson. And it is a documentary that Kirsten Johnson made about her father, Dick Johnson. He’s in his 80s when she started making the movie and had just been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. And she wanted to capture him in some way on film and thinking a lot about what his Alzheimer’s diagnosis meant and what kind of a guy he was. She somehow came up with the idea and pitched to him that she would make a documentary with him about his death. And in it they would include a bunch of like movie making magic scenes of him dying and various comical and horrible ways. So, like, the movie begins with a scene of Dick Johnson walking down the street and air conditioner falling out of a window and striking him on the head and killing him. And then he dies in a bunch of other comical or horrifying ways throughout the course of the movie, as I described this movie to Alere, my wife trying to get her to watch it with me, I could see her face just turn into this horror stricken visage. And I know that when I described the movie, there’s many people who would be like, that sounds like the worst. I would never watch that in a million years. But I found it just. Almost unbelievably inspiring and moving in its portrait of this relationship between an adult daughter and her father and in the way that it forced these two to just really talk about this inevitable thing that was happening to her father, like the spirit and spunk and good humor with which he approached all these crazy things that his daughter had him do and how much he clearly was having a ball like Play-acting, all these things with his daughter who whom he adores. And the way that the movie serves, I think, as a kind of model for how the more you talk about the difficult things in life, the more you address them in your own creative spirit, the less they become things that happen to you and the more they become things that you are participating in in a healthy way. I just really, really love the movie. And even if you listen to my inchoate description and were like, what the fuck, man? I really, really recommend it. And in fact, I really recommend it with teenagers who watch a bunch of this movie with me and was fascinated by it, especially for kids like my kids who are dealing with grandparents who have issues with dementia, who have died of dementia. I think this is a great way to help teach them not only what it means to be facing death in a brave and honest way, but also what it means to be living life with a person who is suffering from some kind of dementia. And how that doesn’t mean that they are just like disappearing into nothingness, but that they are a person who still can do things and live a creative life and have adventures with you, just like Dick Johnson had with his daughter, Kirsten. It’s such a good movie and I really hope everyone watches that. Did all they end up watching with, you know, I’m working on. I’ll report back, maybe that’ll be the segment we’ll forgive that my spouse fail next week. I mean, she’ll listen. So when she finishes that, she’s like, Jesus Christ, Dan, no, how it hurt. So in her defense, her dad died last year of dementia. So, like, it’s a much touchy subject for her than it is for me. My dad has dementia but hasn’t died yet.
S9: So like, I understand where she is coming from and I totally understand why she might never feel comfortable watching this movie. But I think if she did, I think she would end up loving it. We’ll see.
S6: That’s lovely. I actually think it sounds like a really great way to address that topic, like you said, like a way to address it and give it a different a different vision.
S4: So it’s also just really, really funny, which is so important when you’re dealing with this.
S10: I also think to, you know, in our society that we don’t have good mechanisms in place for talking about what it means to age, what comes with aging, what it means to kind of have your personality at some level altered chemically. Right. And we enter into all of these spaces really fearful. And I can say from my lens as a dietitian. Right, there’s a lot that I talk about with my patients that are in this sphere of health and the conversations happen there. But outside of my work, we’re not talking about those things. Right. We’re not talking about, you know, chemical shifts within the brain. And what does it what what does it look like? How does it happen? How do we honor the people that we live with and that we love and keep the whole person kind of in our purview? It sounds incredible.
S4: Yeah. And I mean, like the gulf between the level to which Kirsten Johnson and her father have talked about his decline from Alzheimer’s and upcoming death and how much I have talked to my father about his decline from Alzheimer’s and future death is stark. Yeah. And it definitely has made me think that I need to be doing a better job of that as well. Mm hmm.
S2: All right. That’s our show one more time if you have a question. Email us. Abominated Dotcom are posted at Slate Parenting Facebook group to search for slate parenting on Facebook, dotcom and once again, do not miss our live show. It’s going to be October 14th at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. It’ll be on YouTube. It’ll be on Facebook. It will be beamed into your home. Go to sleep, dotcom slash live for links and information. You can’t wait to see your smiling faces found after fighting is produced by Rosemarie Bellson Smith. New Camp and my Effler. I’m tankless.
S4: Hello, sleepless listeners, thank you so much for joining us for today’s bonus segment and really, really a lot. Thank you for your support for Slate Dotcom. You make possible all the journalism that the magazine does, our campaign coverage, our coverage of who counts in this upcoming election, our podcast. It all happens because of you are Slate plus members. So thank you. I’m now going to read some promotional copy for the season of Fall written by our producer, Rosie Bellson. Rosie likes fall. So she wrote it this way, I’m going to read it how I feel, the air is crisp, leaves are turning, pumpkin spice is in the air, and pictures of families picking apples with their masks on are cropping up all over Instagram. If you love fall, we thought we’d brainstorm some ideas for fall. I don’t love fall, but Elizabeth and Maya do. What do you guys think are some great activities and recipes for fall?
S10: Absolutely. So the first thing I will say is that, you know, being born in the Northeast fall is reminiscent of childhood. It brings me back to growing up in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and I have these vivid memories of getting to go shopping at L.L. Bean and getting new shoes and jeans and shirts so that I could have a cute little outfit for the first day of school. My goodness, they were crab apples on the trees. We were all happy to see each other. I mean, it was just perfection. So with that, I’ll share my fall recipes. You know, I’ll say one last thing, which is like these days now, like as a I think a bona fide grown up, I love the fall because the humidity drops and I’m better able to go running. And I have to say, as somebody who enjoys running these days, running with a mask makes me feel like I’m tapped out before I even start. So the fall and going for a run, especially in the city with the cooler temperatures, it’s a plus.
S11: All right. Now the recipes.
S10: So I thought about a couple of things that I like to make because it’s directly linked to the produce that’s just teaming. So right now, tomatoes are incredibly abundant. And if you go to the farmer’s market, you can literally buy crates of tomatoes. And I know some people are like, what on earth am I going to do with crates of tomatoes? Well, let me tell you, there’s so many things that you can do. Tomato sauce is one of them. Fresh herbs are also really bountiful right now in farmer’s markets. So I just like to make all sorts of different types of tomato sauces. And I do it with my kids. We usually start with a garlic, onion, carrot, bass, and then sky’s the limit. So we’ll go. Basil will do rosemary will do oregano. Sometimes I even grate in a little bit of zucchini or I’ll add mushrooms if I want a meaty like texture. And then I just make these huge kind of vats enough to have the sauce for the week. And sometimes I’ll put it on pasta or I’ll use it for the base of anything that requires a tomato sauce like a lasagna, which is also perfect for the fall because zucchinis are super abundant right now. I like to do lasagna where I use a chickpea pasta sheet and then I use zucchini. And the reason I do that is not because I’m trying to limit the carbohydrates. It’s because I live with a vegetarian and none of us have any allergies. So I cook one meal and it’s usually vegetarian or unintentionally vegan. But I’m always trying to think about how do I boost the fiber, how do I get a great source of plant based protein, vitamins and minerals.
S11: And that’s why I do the chickpea pasta and then I do the layer of zucchini for like the extra veggie vegetables and I incorporate in that homemade tomato sauce.
S10: And depending on how I’m feeling, I may or may not get fancy and do swaps out. So like instead of using ricotta use like a yogurt, but sometimes I’ll do ricotta and then Mazzarella. So that’s nice. Another thing, I have so many recipes I could go on and on. Another recipe that we have been loving and that I did in the instant pot was chili. And so I go from the dried beans and I usually do like a five or six being chili just to get all the different kind of textures and colors. And, you know, based on the beam that you have, you’ll have a little bit more iron or a little bit more B vitamins or a little bit more fiber, but they’re similar. And so I just try to expand the rainbow and the dried beans and then I love the leafy greens. Right now we have kale, we have Swiss chard, we’ve got Brussels. And I’ll chop all of that up really, really finely, toss it in with the chili so that you have kind of the bean and the vegetable. And I might even put in a grain so that it becomes a complete protein meal. There are two more things I’ll share. One is sausage stews because the temperature is dropping and who doesn’t love a sauces? Do most of the stuff that I make I said is vegetarian, but you can put meat in it. And I do like me. So I’ll do like a chicken, or sometimes they even do fish, and the last thing that we do in my house is bread. My Swiss husband loves to make bread because when he was growing up, his mom made bread every week. One or two, she just whip up a bread like a soap, which is close to a collar or just like a regular sour dough. And he actually does it with my kids. In the months pass. It was bread Monday soured on Monday and he would, you know, bake a bread. And now the 13 year old is getting really interested in baking himself. And he wanted to make fireboat, which is bread that you make over the fire. That’s another story about how that came out. But, yeah, bread is an absolute foll favorite in a Dutch oven to be enjoyed with olive oil and butter.
S4: Teaching your kids how to make you bread is definitely next level parenting. If you can get your kids to supply carbs something. These are great recipes, Elizabeth. You have some activities for us, for families to do together and.
S14: I do. I am also like just a huge fan of fall, just the dropping temperatures in the leaves.
S7: And I love kind of the OK, Mr. Otomi, we get in the leggings, you can finally be outside and do all this stuff. You know, I live in Florida. It’s like the fall is never coming.
S14: We’re talking about fall, but I’m going to go outside and it’s still a hundred degrees. But my favorite activity is camping. And you can do this in your backyard. You can go somewhere. I think especially in covid times, camping is a wonderful opportunity to get to go somewhere else. And you can definitely, like, go to a state park that has a set up campground. You can live a little bit more on the edge and look up some camps at HYP camp, which is a place that lets people rent out their extra acreage for ten to fifteen dollars and camp. And some friends of ours just did a goat farm camp near Tallahassee that they said was super fun. So there’s lots of opportunities. Even if you think there’s nothing by you, there definitely is. You can also just like set up in your backyard. I don’t know. I think things like such a great activity with kids because it’s all about like being dirty and cooking. And you can if that’s not your thing, do a night or set up in the backyard and then actually go sleep in your bed. There’s just so many ways to make that a fun activity and is really the perfect time because it’s not so hot that you can’t sleep. The bugs have died down and it’s also not so cold that now you need like gear to make sure that you don’t die overnight. So that’s nice. I also, of course, love pumpkin and apple picking. You can look at pick your own dog and they have a list of all the farms where you can go pick stuff. And that’s a really great social distance activity. We also like to go like leaf peeping and go find places that we can see leaves and collect just a ton of them. There are so many crafts and things you can do with those and just have them around. Plus kids love like the sensory crunching them. And if you don’t have any in your own yard to break up, of course, I think most people probably have their own trees and they’re making up the leaves. We don’t have that problem. All the palm fronds fell during the hurricane. So fall has come and gone for us, I think. But also, I wanted to bring out bird watching. Fall is such a great time, and especially if you have little kids. My kids love this. And coming up on the 17th of October is October big day. And it is a day in which bird watchers all over the world get together and report what they’re seeing in their backyards. And you can log on and actually see how many people are reporting what you can participate to with a free app on your phone. So if you just look up October, big day, that’s super fun. My kids love it. I’m pretty sure we mess up the results because we don’t really know what any of the birds are. We’re trying.
S7: But, you know, but I just think we saw Dolto for everyone. I was wondering, like, how do you. Yeah, we saw Dodo Bird surprise. They’re back in Florida. It’s just a great time, too.
S14: Like if you didn’t plan to summer garden, there’s all these things you can plant in the winter lettuces in particular that come up super fast. So they’re really rewarding for kids and they’re largely not attacked by bugs. The way your summer garden might have been. So I just think it’s a great time to get outside and be doing stuff with the kids. It’s kind of about nature and about, you know, living on this earth, which is something that I love.
S4: OK, Diane, great activities. How can you trade recipes? Terrible, terrible, false propaganda.
S5: How do you hate. I hate living on this earth.
S4: Fall is the season of death.
S1: The death of leaves, the death of warmth, sunny days, dead summer vacation over fall is slipping on rainy, slushy ass leaves and falling on your butt and waking up in the morning and you can see your breath, even though three weeks ago you were on a beach and it was awesome.
S5: All of your decorative gourd season bullshit sucks. I did just buy a whole bunch of decorative cords. Yeah, do my mantels are lined?
S7: Oh, I tried to grow them, but they were thrown across the neighborhood during the hurricane because they climbed a tree. Yeah, well, actually, I think your brother man killed by debris.
S5: Yeah. How’s that for being a neighbor. Mine.
S7: They were posting on the like neighborhood board like found this in my yard. What is it? And I was like, oh, that was a loofah. There was like some kind of weird gourd on our roof. I know it was bad. I shouldn’t have let them climb the crate. Myrdal But the magic of pumpkins were delivered to all Gord’s to all.
S4: Oh my God. So obviously some things about are good Halloween.
S5: Good, good holiday, good holiday quality and potentially good.
S4: Could be good. Could be great.
S7: You might legitimately do now will be hard you know, like the cooler weather.
S5: No, really hot weather is great yet, but when it’s so hot, there’s nothing to take off, right when it gets cold. I mean, yeah, I grew up in Wisconsin.
S4: I spent my whole childhood starting like September. Twenty second fucking freezing all the time. And so I’ve become an adult. All I want is to be warm all the time. The happiest I ever was climate wise was the year we lived in Hawaii, where it’s just seventy three degrees every single day and it never changes. That’s my ideal. Whatever fall comes and starts getting colder, I just get so worn out and depressed about how cold it’s about to get.
S8: I hate that D.C. is not seventy three all summer.
S4: No, it’s not, but I don’t care if it’s hot, hot is fine, hot is fun.
S10: Well, you know what, Dan, a friend of mine has this sauna bag. It’s like an infrared sauna bag and she gets into it in the afternoon. I’m going to send you the link for that. I don’t know what it’s called, but she loves it and she’s always posting pictures on the Instagram afternoon in the sauna bag.
S4: Is it just like it’s just like a heated sleeping bag that you zip yourself up into?
S10: It’s like some kind of infrared led. I don’t know. She plugs it in and listen, she’s living her best life.
S4: I mean, that does seem like an amazing way to get one hundred different kinds of cancer all at once. I like it. I might try it. The problem is not being inside. I just crank the heat up to like 87 or whatever the problem is, being outside. Luckily, we never have to go outside again or that might be taken care of in this horrible year, 20 20.
S8: Does your whole family hate fall or is this.
S5: Oh, they all think it’s Christmas Carol. So you’re just the only one. You just walk around, like, angry about it.
S4: Yeah. Oh yeah. That’s another problem with follows that I’m grumpy and everyone else is happy. So like a pumpkin latte. Does it make you smile? Oh, my God.
S7: I thought we determined earlier on the podcast that your family actually didn’t know when you were having a good day and a bad day.
S4: Well, in the fall, they the baseline changes, so they know they’re all bad days. But some are less bad, I guess. All right. That concludes our discussion of fall America’s worst season. That’s it for our Slate Plus segment. Once again, thank you, members, for your membership. Your our goat farm in Tallahassee. Talk to you next week. Thanks so much.