They Do Talk About Impeachment in Trump Country

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S1: This has absolutely nothing to do with politics and isn’t about politics, partisanship. Democrats and Republicans, it’s totally insignificant. It’s about the Constitution of the United States. The oath of office we take to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. It’s about the president not honoring his oath of office.

S2: Every different leader has teams who every now and then have their jaws drop at unscheduled surprises.

S3: It was funny when I said the guys who says it does not matter that President Trump got caught and ultimately released the funds that Ukraine so desperately needed. It matters that he enlisted a foreign government intervened in our elections in the first place.

S4: Hello and welcome to Trump Cast. I’m Virginia Heffernan, because today’s the day Nancy Pelosi has announced with great clarity and commitment that impeachment will go forward. I want to jump right in today’s show with Supernova Jason Johnson. He’s the political editor of The Root and a contributor to MSNBC. He’s got a p._h._d in political science from Carolina. Like me and Jamelle Bouie, formerly of this show, Jason graduated from UVA A.

S5: He also teaches political science and in general has done everything and knows everything. I’ll be back with Jason in just a minute. But first.

S6: Hi, I’m Bob Stemming and I’m Melinda Stemming, and we have the honor of being the most interviewed Trump supporters in America. That’s right. If there is a media outlet, we have been profiled by them. Washington Post, New York Times, Politico, you name it, we spend most of our time in diners across the Rust Belt. Yeah, we spend 18 hours a day in various diners. We try to pinpoint where the media is going next. For instance, right now, Iowa is big. So we are spending a lot of time in Iowa, diners being stumbled upon, if you will. And we try to give sort of a genesis quite like us. I can’t believe we would love to be interviewed because they love that the media is like, oh, this is great. This is gonna be a fresh take. The truth of the matter is we give the best soundbites. We do. Hillary is sick. I mean, when I said that she’s undependable. Melinda, you were so great. What was that quote? Obama never asked us what we thought. That’s right. And that is the truth. We went eight years with no buddy. Tapping me on the shoulder while I eat pie. Nobody was asking me what I thought about gun control. And now I can’t even get through a slice of coconut cream whenever they ask what we like about Trump. Well, it’s either one of the three pillars, his Christianity. He’s a straight shooter or our favorite. He’s a Washington outsider. That’s right. He’s going to drain the swamp, even though he is the swamp, because he knows about swamps. There’s a lot of doublespeak that happens. But if you just keep talking, they just write it all down. And we collect all the papers. Don’t read up now, but we look for our names. We do a quick search. And right now these quotes are getting buried deeper and deeper because of the. What’s happening? It’s happening in impeachment. Yeah. So now we’re getting. Page seven or eight. We can use to be front page. Anyway, if you want to reach us, you can just tweeted me.

S7: My handle is Pizza Gate 20/20 and mine is. Hillary died in 2013 and was always Bill.

S8: Jason, welcome to Trump Cast.

S9: I am so excited to be here. Why, who?

S8: It is wonderful that you are a fellow evga alarm. So when in the course of human events becomes necessary to dissolve the artifice that we’ve all had around impeachment. And finally, just dig in and load for bear on the real impeachment process that is now underway thanks to Nancy Pelosi’s announcement in which she cited the Declaration of Independence. That’s why I did. Yes. What do you think about her speech today?

S10: I thought it was good. I thought it was powerful. Nancy Pelosi is always good, powerful bubble of Obama. The bigger issue for me throughout this entire process has always been keeping ourselves focused.

S11: I think she did this to a certain extent, keeping ourselves focused on the idea that this is political. But it’s not campaign political. It’s political from the standpoint that he doesn’t have a broken any laws.

S10: But it’s not campaign political where we really don’t want to sit back and forth and have these discussions about whether or not it’s moving the numbers to great criticism that I have Nancy Pelosi for a long time, which, you know, she’s cleaned up by now. So with this, we just mourning the great Christmas Maya with having Nancy Pelosi for a long time as she was under this sort of naive impression that, well, we’ll just work this out with the election next year. Yeah. And we don’t need impeachment because that’s what the elections were. No. Impeachment is part of your job. It is part of holding our presidency accountable. And literally, if part of what you’re trying to impeach this man for is the fact that he cheats in elections. You have it absolutely backwards way of looking at this. So I think the speech today and what she sort of brought to the table is a long and an all too slow process of her realizing why this is all necessary.

S8: So I don’t want to hammer this too hard, but I really do love that she chose the declaration in 1776 rather than 1789, which we heard about yesterday with long discussions of the Constitution, kind of coolheaded ideas of what do we do to preserve this union. And then today she used those fighting words of the declaration where you are essentially asking for divorce, you’re dissolving a relationship, you’re not forming it. And I think because it has been so important to her and like you, by the way, I doubted her. I did not like that she was constantly windsock being on who might lose their election. And, you know, at some point I thought, you know, even if there’s this crazy phenomenon that we’ve seen nothing of, but people used to propose that trump that impeachment would be good for Trump, that everyone would love him all the more because he was now even more persecuted than ever. We didn’t see any of that. But when she was seeming to make those calculations and seeming cowardly to me, she kept saying, I am building this ironclad where we’re not going to do this. Tell us, iron-clad, we’re not going to do this till it’s ironclad. Do you think it’s possible that she has known all along that she was going to move in for the kill? But like the colonies, she needed to get that momentum to make this dissolution of a relationship seem inevitable. You know, you get to say when in the course of human events it’s this is natural. This is the law. I think it says even the law of nature and nature’s god that we break away from you now, England. And, you know, essentially file what are, you know, articles of impeachment against King George. Had lots of references to that grandiose stuff recently. And that I think she reproduced, at least rhetorically, that kind of move of it pains me to do this. My heart is heavy. We Democrats to our prayerful. And yet this must be done.

S12: I don’t think so. OK. All right. I go. I go.

S13: I don’t believe for one second that this was this was not some long game. This was not some brilliant heist movie where all along, you know, she and she and the Ocean’s Twelve of the Democratic Party were like, we’re going to we’re going to pull the switch at the last minute, cause we always knew were real. It you know, I really believe that Nancy Pelosi thought that we could delay impeachment, delay impeachment, delay impeachment, really not do it. And then after twenty eighteen, she was like, oh, yeah, we really don’t have to do impeachment because now we control the House. We keep some of the more insane behavior of this president in check. We can control some of the purse strings. And I think the whelmed the time the Mueller report came out. Well, let’s run this. I’ve started to change because I think that it wasn’t just a matter of, oh, wow, OK. The obstruction of justice, most of these things she kind of knew already. But I think it was her realization that the rest of the country and that the Democratic base cared about impeachment. This is something I see over time. You know, in this sort of punditocracy world that we live in. You know, I’m a recent transplant to the D.C. Metro, a cell accord or universe. I was living in Ohio. I was living in Georgia. You to have a busy place locked up.

S14: And I’m always bemused, but sounds like the real America you’re talking about, Jason, that the FBI shocking Jogi.

S13: You know, living in Cleveland, I was telling you, you know, a small liberal arts college athletically all live in Atlanta.

S14: That made it for even for David Brooks. So, you know. Exactly.

S13: I spent a lot of time in diners. A lot of time in diners, and it was always striking to me is whenever I hear people say and in the months, you know, prior to when the future first started, did you hear reports, you hear an analyst say, you know what? When I’m outside of Washington, D.C., no one ever mentions impeachment to me.

S10: Whatever I heard that, I was like, oh, you’re clearly not talking to black people because every black person that I know everywhere I go, if they remotely recognized me from writing at the route or television or Sirius XM or anything else like that. That is the first darn thing out of their mouths. So there was always a push for impeachment from the base. Nancy Pelosi was basically throwing water on it the whole time. And I think once the Mueller report came out, even though the vast majority of Americans outside of at least the Simpson esque behavior of Elizabeth Warren, I read it.

S14: I read it. I always talk about Smithers. But now we have in the picture, too.

S15: Exactly. Done. You know, just hands up, just like you read everybody.

S16: But, you know, once the Mueller report came out, he couldn’t ignore how much the base was screaming for it.

S13: She couldn’t ignore how much even members of the pundit class and the many hedge funds and really, really bright, engaged people were like, look, you can’t just calculate this in terms of the election. It’s your job. You can’t say that the president has committed all of these crimes or committed all these violations of, you know, presidential norms and then not do it. So so I don’t buy when she was saying today that this I don’t buy the idea that this was a long term plan. I do think this is something that pains her in a way, because I don’t think she ever thought she was going to have to do this. And not because Nancy Pelosi has any sort of affection or love for Donald Trump. She loathes this man, had a very clear and mitigated way. Yeah. But I think that she wanted to operate under the same fantasies of normalcy and decorum that I think hamstrung the Obama administration. But history trumps behavior and her own base of forced to make some changes.

S17: That does add up. And you’re right that she. I don’t know what her relationship is, frankly, with the more ardent, imaginative, radical voices who, as we were continually reminded in yesterday’s hearing, who filed articles of impeachment very early in the game, I was trying to remember, you know, we don’t talk about it very much, but there were articles of impeachment filed in 2017.

S4: Brad Sherman in California filed and then went there, some others, including black members of Congress, who have this wrong.

S9: Yeah, Al Green. That’s right. You know, Kucinich files. I think Kucinich filed over over 80 articles of impeachment and 0 4 during the election and ended up just sort of dying the Judiciary Committee. So, I mean, like, you know, there have been lots of people who have talked about how Donald Trump should be impeached for a long time, for a very, very long time. And again, there’s something to be said for Pelosi being somebody who could learn. There’s something to be said for Pelosi, being somebody who will eventually listen to what the base says. But at the end of the day, you know, what was always so galling about this whole thing is that she behaved as if you can play the same game with a president who was thrown out all the rules. Yeah. And there are some people who never like having to use all the different rules at their disposal, because to them, that’s that’s a loss.

S13: You know, this is a you know, even though she’s a woman, it’s like, well, this is a gentlemen’s game and this is how we do things. And we blue slip judges and we have conversations and we we get coffee and, you know, we play golf. And that’s how we make these distinctions. And having to use all of the weapons at your disposal, all the legislative nooks and crannies that you have to dig through to actually do your job. I think there’s a real ambivalence on a lot of leadership about having to do that. And other Republicans haven’t felt that way for 20 years. You know, Republicans have decided after Bill Clinton that Democrats are not a legitimate party. Anything they do is fine. But I think Pelosi has always been loathe to try to engage in that kind of scorched earth politics.

S8: Now, since we’re dealing in in ethnic archetypes, I’m going to call them. I still see Pelosi as the daughter of her. Her mother was born in one of those medieval towns in Italy that’s known for one thing. And what it’s known for is the making of knives. And it’s it’s I see a little sorry. You maybe you have to cut this. But Cosa Nostra and her. I just see that she’s sort of bella figura way that she’s remembered, though. You know, the condescending clap for Trump, the striking of poses than the evocation always of kind of her faith. You know, she’s a she’s one of the only figures, pensive, so quiet on this, who really styles herself as a as a Christian, presumably a Catholic. She’s the first Italian-American. Speaker of the House, there’s even talk that Giuliani is horrified that she is the ranking Italian-American politician in America. She’s been in the House for so long that she has her own. You know, it’s not Al Green. It doesn’t have civil rights behind it. But it has a kind of there’s a kind of elegance to her moves that I think a lot of women especially admire. You know, the coat and the certain poses. I don’t know. Maybe I do want to hold on to this idea that she’s going to shave or that she has a stiletto or, you know, all those others kind of hopes we have for her. But if nothing else, we got to project some of that on her today, I think.

S15: Oh, yeah. Look, look, in African-American Twitter vernacular, it’s like Nancy Ben Pelosi. Right.

S9: So we wanted I mean, remember, she was you know, she was she was Pelosi queen of dragons until she. You know, all the way up until the twenty eighteen election. Yeah. I mean, everybody thought she was the hero. She was the one staring down from. Look, I I’m I’m old enough to remember Nancy Pelosi basically having daggers in her eyes. When was the Congressman Joe from South Carolina jumped up and said, Obama, you lie? Oh, yeah. And I remember Obama turning to look at him and Amy Pelosi, little to look like they had to hold her back like she was on the basketball court if her somewhere in Brooklyn. It was about that, just about to take somebody out. So, yeah, again, I think that’s what a lot of the frustration was, that this person who clearly was is very politically savvy, who who put down a mini revolt when when the Democrats roots retook the House and seemed hesitant to. You know, why? Why are you bringing a butter knife to a gunfight? But again, you know, her speech today sort of speaks to the fact that there’s very few people with the level of power that Pelosi has who are willing to change their minds.

S12: Yeah. Right.

S10: When she’s like a.. OK. He’s corrupt and blah, blah, blah. He’s used Pleasantville in a bit. You know, again, I think she said that we have to go through the process. I don’t think she said that we’re getting rid of a president. And I think she’s realizing that sometimes even in a resistant state democracy, that you got to let the young, loud voices lead.

S16: Yes. And that’s a sign of good leadership.

S8: Speaking of when you go places where people say nobody ever talks about impeachment in real America, in the diners, and you say, well, if you talk to any black people, I mean, you know, when we’re trying to take the temperature of how radical this country is feeling, it’s possible that Medicare for all or a wealth tax is not the repository of our radicalism, that instead it’s the fact that a very diverse coalition of people spread across the country have been doing something that I’ve never imagined Americans would do, which is shout, well, boo the president and shout, lock him up or say they want to depose this king. And that’s as radical as it gets. That’s that seems like the definition of radical to the root. And, you know, I just keep saying it’s when we’re trying to figure out what this election is about. It’s the handcuff, stupid. It’s the it’s the people who most understand how much he needs to be removed. And I’d like to see that removal, of course, happen in the Senate. I’d like to see the pressure come from places like Kentucky where they’ve been shouting, lock him up in Lexington Lake, Minnesota, to get these senators to really put pressure on them, to realize that the mood of the nation is I mean, whereas in flames, as we’ve ever been, when more than half, 50 percent, according to some polls, want the president removed. Right. It’s a weird country.

S9: It’s a weird country, but it’s also one. It’s also makes sense. Right. Yeah. They got lost by 3 million votes. That’s a lot of people. That’s a lot. You know, I remember look, every single year, every single year when somebody loses, I remember seeing Bush’s brain. Karl Rove. Oh, yeah. Karl Rove, you know, quite interesting in his cornflakes in 2012 saying, well, we only lost by 77000 votes across three states. No, you lost. You lose. You lose. There’s no place. Right. In the case of Donald Trump. You have a guy that was never popular. Yeah. I mean, he he lost by three million. So it’s also been always been strange to me when you look at things like impeachment and you look at things about some of the caution. I think some of the Democratic leadership had, it’s like, yo, the majority of country didn’t want this guy. It wasn’t even close. Like you could make an argument. I mean, we know George Bush cheated. But you can make an argument that like, hey, man, that was a coin flip. Right. Like five different people showed up, et cetera, et cetera. And tip the scale one way or another. But people do not like Donald Trump. They have not wanted Donald Trump to be an office. You are not operating against the public will. Yes. Donald Trump should be removed from office.

S8: Right. Right. No one disagrees with you. And then what’s weird is that when we’re taking the temperature of the country and you say the American people this that I see that, you know, you’ve got a very good pinned tweet up saying Republicans are never. Trump’s supporters are never going to change their minds. Just let’s not even think about that. But still witness all the visits to diners, the chattering classes have taken taken these wasted these three years taking the temperature of a nation that doesn’t exist in some substance away and telling us back, you know, all the time that, you know, Trump represents the will of the people. He certainly doesn’t represent their popular well. But, OK, he hacked these counties. And I keep feeling like they say, well, Tonya Harding, just a great skater, and Nancy Kerrigan must have had a lot of good hair. She just could not pull off those triple axles. And Trump did not win because he was the better candidate and everybody loved him. He won because he hacked some counties with the help of a foreign power. Full stop. He cheated. Right.

S16: Well, and so this is this is my slight disagreement on that. OK. Here’s how Trump got off. I fight with with colleagues and friends about this. You know, publicly, privately, all time. The greatest the greatest reason why Donald Trump won is not Russia. I would put Russia’s maybe third, fourth, maybe even fifth. It was Republican voter suppression after the gutting of the Civil Rights Act. That’s what it was.

S10: It was all these different states being able to engage in ridiculous levels which chenery to keep people from voting. It’s one hundred seventy five thousand people being knocked out in one county in North Carolina.

S18: Yes. It’s, you know, 50000 here, 50000 there in Wisconsin. If Scott Walker runs around playing basically electoral jago for the Republican Party and snickering and sneering as he snatches people’s votes and ability to express themselves away.

S10: That’s what it was. If you didn’t have that kind of behavior happening with Republican governors in Wisconsin, Republican governors in Michigan, Republican governors in North Carolina, then the Democrats probably went. Hillary Clinton probably wins, which have a fundamental impact on not just, yes, blah, blah, blah. Hillary Clinton wins and we don’t have a Muslim ban. But I also think it changes so many of the dynamics about, you know, what we’ve seen in 2020 and what people’s political futures are. And I’ve always felt like our public discourse needs to understand that the greatest enemies to democracy are right here at home. The greatest enemy to democracy is not Vladimir Putin. It’s not, you know, Julian Assange. It’s it’s not whatever it is that they founded WikiLeaks. It is weaselly governors and secretaries of state like Brian Kemp. It’s weaselly governors and administrative officials in Ohio who are snatching people’s votes and moving voting places and making sure that, you know, there’s not enough batteries to keep voting machines open in places where people have to be. That is our greatest danger. And so looking forward, as much as we have every reason to believe that Donald Trump will cheat as much as possible, he will. And he is actively said, hey, come here and ask our machines. The fact that the matter is, if we actually had elected officials or we held our elected officials at a state level accountable for what they had to do, it wouldn’t matter what kind of foreign influence there was. And that’s the problem. The foreign influence only matters because you’ve got a whole bunch of state legislators who are already leaving the door open.

S8: I think that’s absolutely right. And, you know, now obviously there’s some connection to the exploitation of American racism and policies of voter suppression. The exploitation of that as a national security chink in our armor by Russians has gone back a long way in encouraging getting people really whipped up in these kind of frenzies of anxiety about departing Mexicans and Muslims. By the way, do Republicans even talk anymore?

S13: I mean, is it just me or did we all forget about the caravan, the caravan justice?

S8: So are we still are we still in a national emergency and be a constitutional crisis? Because both seem I think he can do whatever he wants as what we learned and say anything. The women in duck tape, are they just they’re somehow everything.

S15: I think that he. Yeah, every day that he comes up with everything he’s got to make up with.

S13: This is also I think there’s just always very funny about this. And people can turn to like, oh, you know, we were talking before about, oh, is Trump going to use impeachment to his advantage? Look, I was in Trump Country, right? I was in Ohio. I taught college. And I used to I remember he was a piece I was working with with with the Times. And as everything else like that, the myths surrounding Trump’s success and the myths surrounding his presidency are part of why, again, our impeachment is sort of muddled and fuddled the way that it is. You know, one, Donald Trump was not elected by a bunch of angry counties. OK. He wasn’t. That’s a cute belief that someone can have if you want to parachute into Indiana or Missouri without a lot of college students who were supporting Donald Trump and a lot of White Middle-Class College kids who supported Donald Trump because they like the idea that he wasn’t a politician. They believe naively that anybody can run the government and that it doesn’t take a particular set of skills. And they’ve grown up. And these are. Well, millennials at this critical point in younger men Jonze’s, but they also operate under a very different kind of racialized dynamic than adults. And I think the youth support for Trump was always something that was kind of ignored in favor of blue collar Bob.

S19: That is something that fit the narrative more of, you know, a Washington bureau chief. What I saw was a 19 year old or a 20 year old who grew up. And if you ask that, look, I’m a Gen X, right? If you ask me, hey, I’m a rich guy and you’re from Gen X, you might say somebody like Donald Trump. But if you ask a 20 year old white kid in Ohio named somebody rich, they say Diddy. They say Jay-Z, the biggest movie star in her life, has been Will Smith. They operate in a world where their working class status is sort of shamed by this large number of successful, beautiful black people who they have grown up having to admire and to a certain extent based themselves or measure themselves against. And so Donald Trump was a giant, wonderful, beautiful temper tantrum against all these black and brown people that have made them feel bad about the fact that they haven’t achieved the American dream is 20 year old white. And I think that was overlooked. I think there was an assumption that, you know, young people were going to repudiate and reject his bigotry. And I’m like, no, that’s not the young people that I do not want in 2020. But it was in 2016.

S17: And then there’s the other faction of bankers and lawyers for Trump that we just never see profiles of. Those are the ones that I’ve encountered in Houston, people I knew who that if we talked about politics at all. I mean, I can I actually can’t remember. No talking about the Iran deal. I can’t I can’t remember in an Obama times. And all of a sudden just I couldn’t believe it. They had Magga stuff. And it turns out that, you know, they knew which side their bread was buttered on. And Emine. Anyway, I think you’re absolutely right. We misrepresent that faction. But I want to talk about possibly those bankers and lawyers for Trump and figures who may have encountered in purple states. I’m thinking in particular of someone like Abigail Span Berger and Virginia. Susan Dominants did a great piece on her in The Times magazine. She’s a congresswoman from Virginia. And she has been very anxious about this impeachment process because she doesn’t want to spook her constituency personally, ask her alone over a drink if she’s for impeachment.

S8: And so it seems like she absolutely is. But she has had to find in Pelosi a kind of model of how to walk this particular kind of ambivalent white voter who’s beginning to change parties, you know, beginning to think they’ll vote for Bloomberg or maybe they have voted for a for a Democrat. But they just they don’t know how to change from a Mets fan to a Yankees fan that easily. And, you know, probably you and I don’t pay much attention to to that crowd because it’s it’s just the other side’s the polls are more interesting. But it’s I still have a hard time talking to Republicans who are, you know, still dragging their feet. But anyway, it’s for them. And maybe I’m just wanting to go back to supporting Nancy Pelosi. But it seems like for them that she’s staged all this deliberateness and seeking an ironclad argument and also how much it pains her to go through with this.

S15: So this is what a good leader will do. And I had this argument with a very smart friend of mine who’s also a UVA alum as a Smashburger. Oh, she’s okay.

S19: Here’s an element of all this. And, you know, being a good friend of mine talked about this when it came to leadership and everything else like that. Pelosi by throwing water on impeachment. This is the three dimensional chess defense, right? By throwing water on impeachment and then eventually being dragged into it by the Mueller report gave cover to people like Abigail, remember? Right. If you really like Pelosi, that’s what you say. She did the other thing and this is no small element of of her level of success is that those individuals who were either on the fence about it or didn’t know how was going to impact them. They never have to worry about being that critical vote. And this is a theory that that I’ve talked about a lot and classes and sometimes on the air, it works. Forsett also works for the House and the Senate. Nobody wants to be the fifty seventh vote. Right. See if somebody’s got to pass. You want you know, you can be the first. I guess I’m the first person signed onto this bill. I’m the second person. You want to be in the 30s. You want to make a point. But if you start started the fifty seven, fifty eight, fifty nine, then all the pressure is on you. Then it is seen as your bill, your decision. And that is something that terrifies most people. Abigail Smashburger is sort of the epitome of that in the house. It’s like I don’t want to be the 200 A.T.F.

S20: Vote for impeachment. Let me hide it like one seven.

S8: All right, now I got a chance directions with you, Matt. I mean, I know Matt Gates was listed in many people’s list of like the most odious characters in the hearings yesterday here that on the constitutional law. And everybody has a at least favorite on the list. But he’s the one who took great umbrage in the way we now know Republicans do in that kind of trigger snowflake thing they used to accuse the left of. So first, Matt Gates said he had found a point made by Professor Carlin, who is explaining, I think, distribution of conservatives in the country. And she had said they live very in very spread out ways. They’re not like chloride in cities. Maybe they just tone even want to be near each other. There’s no perfect like not even especially loose lipped thing to have said on Twitter. It’s not no shame in that. But I mean, he can honestly get himself to the brink of tears thinking that he’s been slighted by her. Republicans have a president in the White House. They were you know, they they they’ve not expressed anything but a sense of persecution even since they took power. I think that they, too, believe they’ve got an illegitimate president, a president with all kinds of legal and criminal exposure. And I don’t know, there’s just something so fearful. And then, of course, he’s the one that got mad about this barren punt and that she made.

S10: Yeah. So couple things about Gates. First off, every time I see, you know, evil mirror universe version of Josh Gad, I just can’t take it.

S15: Like he’s just a kid. Yeah.

S21: Just it’s so disingenuous in in this sort of performative outrage that he does. I can’t believe Lindsey Graham’s performative outrage. I can’t even believe Ted Cruz performative average. And by believe it. I mean, there is a point where they can so completely they can they can commit so much to the intellectual and moral gymnastics of their words that they’ll believe it for a minute. Lindsey Graham screaming and doing The King’s Speech last year about Brett Kavanaugh.

S10: I believe that he believe part of that just because he wanted it so bad. He’s like, I really, really want this scalp to bring to the president. So I don’t care how many people I have to violate in order to do this, etc cetera.

S9: Yes. You know, Ted Cruz is the weaselly, weasely, unpleasant human being. He is. He’s every single model you win kid that you hated being partnered with in high school. And so, Kiki, he can get pleasure off of getting angry and being mad at people. Jeff, it’s it’s just an empty vessel. Literally yesterday when he tries to cry and say, how dare you attack Baron? And of course, we find out that what she said about Bear was like, even though you’re president, you named your son Bear and you can’t make him one.

S16: That is literally all that does that all the professor said, yeah, that is all that she said. And of course, of course, Gates doesn’t say that he just leaves it out there. Yeah.

S10: That, you know, she made the statement. But again, that is par for the course for the current Republican Party because what are we really talking about, impeachment? A president who didn’t want an investigation. He just wanted it out there that an investigation occurred so he could damage someone. Gates doesn’t care about what was actually said. He just wants the public to know that she said something.

S8: Yeah, that’s right. And get people into the. I just don’t like her. So let’s not impeach the president. Yes. All right. I going to ask you what I asked Harry Litman the other day. I am absolutely obsessed with this question. Okay. Is there a possibility that Trump will, when faced with data and seemingly irrefutable proof, self-evident, that that his if he’s faced with the fact that he will lose in 2020, that there is no way he can’t keep cheating, he can’t keep gunning it, he can’t keep riling up his base, which is shrinking anyway. He’s going to lose. And that will mean he will not be pardoned for federal crimes. Is there any chance he’ll resign?

S12: Never. Wow. Donald Trump will never resign. Okay.

S11: Trump will never give up. Donald Trump will have to be removed. If not in handcuffs, Donald Trump will have to be removed from office. I honestly believe that even if he is blown the heck out, let’s say that he is beaten by, you know, Mayor cobh Bouchard, Warren, anybody, Cory Booker, Joe Biden, even if he is beat, even if he is blown out of the water by 5 million votes in the popular vote. Two hundred twenty seven thousand in the Electoral College. He will not leave office. There is no amount of data that you can show him that’ll make him leave office.

S19: And I think the only way that you’ll ever get Donald Trump to leave office will be, ironically, to give him the sort of military parade that he wanted to get and use that as a way to sort of politely escort him out, like, we’re not going to take you out and cast, but we’ll give you sort of an armed contingent that will walk out with you.

S18: That is the only way that he will leave office.

S13: Anyone who believes for one second that this guy gives a darn about the rules. And honestly, I wish I wish that the only reason that he wouldn’t leave office peacefully and respectfully is because he’s afraid of prosecution.

S21: I wish that was the only reason, but it’s not that. It’s because he really believes that he’s entitled to the presidency forever.

S12: He just wants the power.

S10: And so anyone who believes for one half a drop a second is the criticism that I have of Biden and Warren. A lot of the top candidates are running as Democrats. What are you going to do the day after the election when Donald Trump says, I don’t care?

S13: We’re going to do when he says after the election, when he refuses to call and concede. Yeah. When he says California’s fill it full of illegal immigrants, when he says that Texas, which flip blue because for some reason at the last minute better decide he was going to run for Senate in terms offenders. If all of all these things happen, what are you going to do? And if your argument and this is just goes back to our sort of impeachment things from beginning, if you are afraid of using all the resources at your disposal to keep this country running and functioning, then you will have allowed him to win.

S21: Already, fascism and authoritarianism is not always tanks coming down the street. A lot of times it’s just people forgetting what things used to be like.

S13: And that’s the danger of somebody like Trump.

S8: I have the U.S. Capitol Police Web site up right now because I was trying to remind myself Ellie Mae Styles said he thinks we need muscle. We need to, you know, muscle some of these guys to obey their subpoenas and and get get our police force in action on the constitution. If he has to be taken out, I see that the Capitol Police are hiring and maybe all those of us who want to do service for our country should get together first. Let’s go. We could call it a military parade, but we would just we would just do the people’s work of hauling him out of office. We could wear all kinds of regalia. We could put him up on a, you know, those sedan chairs. Yes. But one way or another, we could get him out. So I hope you’ll join me in being part of the volunteer Capitol Police. What do you think?

S18: You know what? I also think that the number of people who will show up to remove him from office will be larger. The number of people who showed up as inauguration.

S14: I love it. We’ve got such a high note.

S4: My guest has been Jason Johnson. He’s the political editor of The Root and a contributor to MSNBC. Thank you so much, Jason, for being here. Thank you. Anytime. That’s our show for today. What do you think? Our Twitter lines are wide open. I’m at page 88 and the show is at real. Charmcaster Our show today was produced by Melissa Kaplan and engineered by Merit Jacob. I’m Virginia Heffernan. Thanks for listening to Trump cast.

S22: Everybody loves me, but Democrats that make making my life. Absolutely. But I’m not leaving. I am staying in the White House. A at this time. You’re going to have to take me out of here kicking and screaming and everything else. Not that I’m a kicker and a screamer. But you know what a donkey about. So I’m not going anywhere. Oh, who are you guys? What’s going on? A military parade or a military parade? But wanted to have what brag or no one out there finally allowing it? Well, that’s fantastic. What is it today? It’s happening today. Oh, wow. Did you want me to review the troops? Oh, I would love to do that. By the way, I mean, this was going to be like this is going to be incredible. And what about bazooka horns and a bazooka? Azealia bazookas? Oh, this is going to be a really incredible parade. We’re not the Navy and the Air Force and the Marines. Oh, well, the space force be there. They will. And Mike Pence will be leading them. Well, what are we waiting for? We’ve got to get down to the reviewing stand to see this. Oh, look it up. This is much good. This is Sabat. This is the guide of service. I shouldn’t be getting along. Military police. Look at you guys. You’re dressed so nice. That’s good. Oh, you’re surrounding me. This is what I’ve always wanted. Military people surrounding me as I leave the Oval Office and head down to review a military parade.

S23: This is my dream. This is my dream.

S24: This is my dream.

S22: A hoax ship danger. A dud. Oh, oh, oh, oh.

S23: Melania Malatya. I just had the worst nightmare in the history of nightmares. I was impeached. I was removed from office. People were nice to me. All the world leaders were doggie about me. But it was just a nightmare. None of that happened. Everything’s great. The greatest president in the history of a president’s fantastic academy. Everyone likes Bay and there’s no impeachment. It’s never happening. These people I made and nasty. And I’m just going to ignore it. I am just going to ignore it. And like mom used to say, if you ignore it, it goes away.