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S1: So, Katie,

S2: what’s the weirdest comfort food you’ve come across in space?

S1: Oh, well, there’s ones that were really disappointed because they weren’t comforting.

S2: Interesting. OK, what disappointed you that

S1: about half of our food is dehydrated and the other half is this meals ready to eat and they put a certain kind of preservative in there to make sure that you don’t die when you eat it. Right. And it has this kind of taste and they put it in all the desserts, the cherry cobbler, I mean, all the cobblers. It was I mean, I’m up there. I’m like cobbler. Here we go. I love cobbler, love

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S2: I you get that taste.

S1: Even I chose not to eat that.

S2: So the reason I asked was I was actually listening to Helen Sharman on BBC TV. I love how the first British female astronaut going up and she was commenting on how big in space affects your sense of taste. So you’re constantly looking for bigger and bigger hits as you’re out there. And it got me wondering about the comfort food side of things. But clearly, you don’t want that hit of that weird stuff that they put in. Well, I

S1: was up there. I was actually more just like food was sort of an emergency situation. I was there with an Italian, OK? And so food is I mean, it is it is life. It is love. It is everything. And some cruise don’t eat all their meals together. But I swear that actually, Paolo, you know, I’d go, Paolo, I’m going to be another hour. He’s like, let me know. Because Italians don’t eat alone, or least just one did not. And so I had bigger fish to fry then accelerated needs for taste.

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S2: I see. Right. So so we should talk about what else is going on in the world that’s been going on this week or what’s coming up.

S1: Well, it is Earth Day, which I mean, every year I’m thinking, oh, it’s Earth Day. And I’m always excited. I mean, because it’s the day that we focus on the earth. But now we’re the Mission Interplanetary podcast, and it is our job to make sure that people are thinking about the future. Yeah, the future days. And I think that if we play our cards right, Andrew, we could actually pick what day is Mars Day. Oh, Mars. What day is Pluto today? Because we’re going to be celebrating all of them. Yes. And we could put a plug in for Pluto because I’m impartial.

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S2: Do you think Pluto really belongs here? Goodness me. That’s going to get some some fan mail or not fan mail coming in.

S1: I’m Cady Coleman.

S2: I’m Andrew Maynard,

S1: welcome to Mission Interplanetary.

S2: Today’s episode we’re asking how will the universe and OK, this is big stuff, Cady. Well, I

S1: am pretty excited about this because I am not we should clarify that. It’s not about I mean, it’s not happening tomorrow. This is like the astrophysics big deal.

S2: So we’ve got a few years

S1: ago and to most of us, it’s like, oh, you know, it’s going to end. Who cares how? But I mean, it’s actually fascinating to think about the different theories. And I don’t understand them. And I’m looking forward to learning a lot.

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S2: So I must confess, I this really appeals to the physics geek in me because, of course, this is this is my background. And, yeah, forget about all the existential stuff. It’s just really cool physics, thinking about how everything is going to win. Why do you say that? Just because it’s interesting. I mean, the beauty of physics is you can begin to sort of map out how things might happen. You can learn all these little bits and pieces, all these laws, all these rules, and you can use them to project out into the future. So you can begin to say things about what might happen to the sun and the planets and the galaxy and the universe all through these basic laws that we’ve begun to understand how to use it. To me, that’s just incredible. It’s mind blowing that we can actually do that. I just think of this. We’ve just got these few rules and laws. We can actually map out how this whole universe that we’re living in is going to end. What is more exciting than that?

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S1: Well, actually, I love that you can make this come alive and well. But really, I mean, because, you know, different things to speak to different people. I’m a chemist and I’ll be reading, like, more physical chemistry kind of stuff. And I’ll it’ll go. And so the following happens and then they’ll be like, this equation. I’m like, OK, equation flunk out of the way. What’s next? When actually to people like you, that equation is a sentence with inflection and colours.

S2: And it is. And you get to this point and I’ve lost so much of this, but yes, you see the equations and they speak to you. It’s a language, it’s poetry. And this is the point that really blows my mind that we can begin to think about the future and mathematics as poetry. We should probably move on to talking about our week’s obsession. So, Katie, what else other than the end of the universe and Earth Day have you been obsessing about this week?

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S1: British baking is right up there for me. And, you know, I mean I mean, actually, you made fun of by not being a foodie. I actually really love food and and I love cooking. Actually, that’s the way the chemistry part comes out for me. But to me, it’s interesting to watch this show and to look at these people as a team. Right. And to see like what you see at the beginning of all the people. And then as the show goes by and you get to know them more and more and you’d think you know them completely and then they surprise you. And so I’m really interested in the team dynamics.

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S2: But it’s funny you should say this. I we watch a lot of cooking programs, but you see this on so many the idea that even though it’s a competition, it’s not really a competition. This is a team of people that are looking out for each other and especially on the Great British Bake Off, I’m going back to my English roots. The fact that people get so upset when somebody is voted out.

S1: Yes. And that they I mean, they they cry, they hug it, I think. And I think they mean it. Yes. Because it’s really something special and something really hard. I mean, to to finish every time each project, you could just see they have to dig so deep. And it’s interesting to me to figure out what is it that made it hard for them and can other people help them and do other people help them, which in many cases,

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S2: yes, they absolutely do. Yes. Yeah, there are life lessons here.

S1: So I think most things are accomplished in teams. And when we when I think of physics and what I think of physics history, often you only hear one name. And yet I think in physics things are most often accomplished in teams as well.

S2: Oh, they absolutely are. Yes. We get a little obsessed with the individuals. But really, this is a team sport and a team science. Absolutely.

S1: OK, so Andrew, I’m I am truthfully almost afraid to ask, but what have you been thinking about this?

S2: Well, actually, I’ve been thinking about crochet and very specifically hyperbolic geometry and crocheting the universe.

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S1: I love this.

S2: I know you to earth. Are you talking about.

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S1: I am not because I’ve you know, I’ve in for somebody like me as a chemist and has trouble imagining these things. If somebody can crochet it and show it to me, it’s astonishing. Right. And it helps.

S2: So and this is something I’ve been interested in for years. But but recently I’ve actually taken up crochet again for a variety of reasons. But I so I sometimes on these sort of resume calls, when my camera is off, I’ll be sitting there with my my needle and my ball of wool. But what I love about crochet is I just like any. Form of missing, it’s it’s a form of code and there is this incredible technique you can use where you can create these intricate mathematical shapes using crochet, using this code. So there’s this woman, Margaret Wertheim, who’s been doing this for a number of years, but she actually crochets these hyperbolic geometries that you find in nature but are incredibly hard to replicate otherwise. And it just blows my mind that with a needle hook and a ball of wool, you can do these incredible things. I love it.

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S1: So we’re going to take a quick break and we’ll be right back.

S2: Today on Interplanetary when contemplating the end of the universe,

S1: our guest is Katie Mack. Katie is a theoretical astrophysicist, cosmologist and assistant professor of physics at North Carolina State University. Her writing appears in popular publications that I like, like the Scientific American Slate, Sky and Telescope Time in Cosmos magazine. Her new book, The End of Everything Astrophysics Speaking, is one of the New York Times notable books of Twenty Twenty, and it’s on The Best Books of the Year list for The Washington Post, Publishers Weekly and The Economist. Katie Mac, welcome to Interplanetary.

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S3: Thanks so much for having me. It’s really great to be here.

S1: So we have a lot to talk about. I think we should get down to business. OK, the universe is ending and should we be worried?

S3: I don’t think we should be worried. I think there are a lot of reasons not to be worried about the end of the universe. One of them being that it is a very long way off, almost certainly.

S2: And and we’ve got to ask, how long is as long are we talking about sort of next year? Well, obviously not.

S3: Probably not next year. It depends on it depends on how we think it’s going to go. So in my book, I talk about five different possibilities, and each of those have sort of different timescales associated with them. None of them is is even remotely likely for trillions and trillions of years.

S2: So you mentioned the the five ways in which the end of the end of the universe could end the end of everything. And I wanted to see whether you could summarize each of them in just one sentence. So I’m going to go through each of them for the book. So you start off with the big crunch. What is the big crunch?

S3: The big crunch is where the current expansion of the universe reverses and everything comes crashing back together and incinerates, smashes up.

S2: OK, that’s number one. Number two is heat death. It sounds like something out of Star Wars or something.

S1: And none of these are good. OK, six people out there.

S3: Yeah. I mean, this is it doesn’t end well. It just doesn’t end well. There’s no way for that to we don’t go peacefully. That he does is the closest to a peaceful a peaceful transition in a

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S2: peaceful transition to death

S3: to nothing else. Yes. Yes. The heat death is where the universe expands continuously forever, speeds up in its expansion. Everything fades to black and decays and disappears.

S2: OK, I’d like that. Just sort of a gentle disappearing into nothingness. OK, number three, which to me is a really weird one. The big rip.

S1: Yeah. And could it happen next week?

S3: No, no. The big rip is we know it’s at least something like 200 billion years away if it’s going to happen at all. OK, the next one could happen next week. We’ll talk about that in a minute. The big rip is where the universe expands extravagantly, quickly, and and the dark energy that’s causing the expansion in the universe becomes too powerful and starts to rip apart all structure in the cosmos and eventually tear us apart the structure, the fabric of space itself.

S2: OK, no, for another really weird and interesting one. Vacuum decay.

S3: Yeah, yeah, this one’s my favorite. So vacuum decay is where a bubble of a new kind of space called a true vacuum formed spontaneously at one point in the universe, expands out at about the speed of light and destroys everything in its path.

S2: Wow. So. So this is the one that. Right. You reckon could sort of happen almost any time?

S3: Technically, yes. You know, in principle, you probably won’t almost certainly, you know, to the to the level of certainty that that is just beyond even thinking about it’s all it’s not going to happen soon, but mathematically.

S2: And then the final one, number five, the bounce one is the bounce.

S3: Right. So the bounce is a term that I use as a blanket term to talk about a few different possibilities where the universe would go through some cycle of an end of the universe leading to a new big bang. So there are a few different ways that that could happen. Some of them involve a sort of contracting universe that then transitions to a new big bang. Others are something where you’d have like a hit other than a new big bang or even some something weirder where we had a previous universe that that transition to DARS.

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S2: So I’m actually going to ask you to now rank these. And I was going to ask you to sort of rank them in terms of which one is more likely to occur. But I’m actually going to ask you to rank them in order of the ones that you’ve liked the most as a fair. Astrophysicist, sure.

S1: And then which ones you had the most fun explaining?

S3: Yes, right. OK, well, vacuum decay is the top of every list. Well, not not the top of the most likely list, unfortunately, maybe four. But the funny

S2: thing is, if you can use a word like fun when it comes to the death of yes,

S3: it is also the only one I’m actually actively researching as a physicist. So, you know, that that that puts it in a special place in my heart. Or maybe the reason that I’m working on it is because it’s a fun idea.

S1: Well, so. Why do you think real people need to know these stories?

S2: We ought to define who real people are here, right?

S1: Well, I’m going to say people who don’t already have a good idea of cosmology. I mean, I think it’s actually quite easy to look out in the sky and think that things are going to be the same. They’ve always been the same. I mean, these timescales are so big. What does it matter?

S3: Right. I mean, I think there are a couple of reasons that I that I try and share cosmology, that I do what I do in terms of the public side of science. And one of them, I mean, you know, there’s the standard answer, why why should we study theoretical physics? The standard answer is that every time we’ve done that so far, it has advanced technology in society in really big and important ways. Right. I mean, there’s out of quantum mechanics. We have every piece of electronics that we use every day out of general relativity. We have the GPS system that helps us get down the street to the grocery store. I mean, there’s there’s so many knock on effects to every piece of of important theoretical physics that’s been done in the last few centuries. So the idea that that’s going to stop now that we’re finished with that and nothing we discover in theoretical physics from now on will have any impact on society. Seems like a bad bet. Right. So there’s that’s that’s the kind of standard, the standard answer that that’s why we should do the stuff, my my personal feeling for why we should do this stuff. What we do this stuff is that it’s a thing humans like. I mean, we are a curious species. We are interested in the universe in in how things work. That’s just a property of of ah, our makeup as animals. We are we are curious. We have these big brains, we want to know stuff. The same reason we like, you know, music and art and and stuff like that. Like we just this is just stuff that gets us excited. It’s part of who we are. And so, you know, if we’re going to do that, if we’re going to have government money, taxpayer money, go toward figuring out these questions because that’s something that we value, then we should also share with people so that they know what we’re doing and what we’re discovering and so that everybody can share that that joy of understanding, which is part of being a human. So that’s that’s what I do with this stuff. And that’s, I think, a very valuable thing.

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S2: I’d love that you say that because I think too often we get caught up in the almost like the economic value of research. And yes, it’s important. But to me it is on that spectrum with art. It’s the things that define who we are and allow us to express who we are and explore who we are. Yeah. So important.

S3: Yeah. And especially with cosmology. And that’s where we came from, where we’re going. How does our our story and how do we fit into the cosmos. And there’s another aspect that I think is I have a personal feeling about it. I don’t know if the research really bears it out or not. I don’t know if the research has been done or not. But, you know, there’s there’s something the Katie will be very familiar with the overview effect, this idea that seeing the Earth from above changes your perspective on humanity, on the environment, on how we what we should be doing as humans to, you know, deal more gently with each other and all of that. Right. And I think that for those of us who are not fortunate enough to get above the atmosphere and actually have that that view ourselves, I think that having some perspective of how we fit into the greater cosmos and having some perspective of the universe as a whole and our deep insignificance in the grand scheme of things can can get us partway there, you know, can really help us to see how we fit into that bigger picture.

S1: Yeah, I have to say that in reading your book, it made me think about how to how to find that overview effect in different places than I’d been looking, that you don’t actually have to go to space to understand the scheme, the scale of things and where you fit.

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S3: That’s great to hear. Yeah, I it is it is something that that I really try to do with my work as is help people to have that feeling in your.

S1: I love the examples of it. I’ve written down a few, a few phrases that are like they really relate to people. And I wondered if you would come up with that or maybe share a few of basically, you know, your your examples that give you the most joy to to share with people, because there’s even things like, you know, there’s a manufacturer’s. Effect in the fabric of the universe. I mean, everybody understands manufacturer’s defect, right? And but even just ways that you give it some character that you’re allowed to be impressed or, I don’t know, pathological singularities, how you how physicists feel about singularity. Like, I mean, I, I do some math and I know about singularities and I know that there’s these graphs and it’s poorly behaved or but but when you said that I was like, oh, this is this is how they feel about them. I mean, so you really clearly it’s important to you to share with people. What are some of your favorite sharings?

S3: Yes. The bit about singularities in the in the book was was actually one of my favorite things where, you know, the problem when we when we find singularities in our equations in in physics, it’s a sign that something has gone wrong with the mathematics. And and, you know, it could be that the there is a real singularity, that there is something about the universe that’s just the shape of space is weird there in a way that’s that’s really a problem. But but usually the way that we think about it is that it’s a sign that that we’ve messed up in how we’re looking at the problem. And so the example I used in the book was it’s like if you are trying to get directions to somewhere on your on your GPS and and it tells you, you know, the GPS tells you, OK, now drive to the edge of the lake, disassemble your car, turn it into a boat, cross the lake, and then go to the other side and continue on the highway. Maybe that’s the only way to get there. But probably you’ve just made a wrong turn. You turn around, find a different way and get there in another in another method. And I

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S1: so loved that one

S3: thing. And that’s that’s kind of how we feel about the singularity, is if we if we write down our equations, we write down our theory and we run into a singularity, probably we just need to approach it in a different direction. And that actually is is something that came up in in the theory around black holes initially was there was there was a a kind of singularity that was found in the equations, in describing black holes that that turned out not to be real. And it was the way it was because of how you write down the equations of the shape of space around black holes. We think there might be a real singularity at the center of black hole. That might be one that actually is there. But there are other places where a singularity is just a sign that you’ve messed up to start again. So, I mean, I think that I like to I like to use examples like that. I like to talk about physics like that, because that’s kind of how I relate to it. I have a very sort of emotional connection to science and to the work that I do. And so there are a lot of times when when that’s just kind of how I see it. That’s how I conceptualize it. And that’s how it makes sense to me, is to find a more personal connection to it. Like like the part where. There’s there’s this weird effect in an expanding universe where if you take a galaxy that’s that’s the same size and you put it different distances from us in the cosmos, for the most part, you put it farther away and it’ll look smaller. But there’s a point at which you put it farther when it actually looks bigger. This this affects where smaller things were more distant. Things look smaller, turns around at some point in the distant cosmos. And so there there are certain things, there’s a certain distance beyond which things actually will start to look bigger as they are when they’re actually farther away. And and the the reason behind that is because the light left those objects when the universe was actually smaller. And so there’s this weird effect where things it actually was closer to you when the light left it in than the universe has been expanding. And so it took up more of the sky when the light left. And that’s why it looks bigger to you. It’s just weird. But when I was trying to conceptualize this, I was thinking about like, OK, sort of like it’s sort of like it sends you a photograph of and that photograph is older. But, you know, the way that the photograph looked on the sky, you know, it’s taking up more of the sky. I’m always trying to find some way to visualize these things. And sometimes it’s really hard because you are dealing with space time and again. And I had to I had to go through metaphors about like an infinitely long treadmill that’s changing speed. And, you know, I worked really hard to get this to work out in the book. You could tell. Yeah, but it was awesome, you know. Thank you. It’s it’s that’s just I feel like I need to have some kind of visualization. That’s not just the mathematics for me to understand it, because I’m not somebody who for whom just just an equation is itself clear enough to my mind.

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S2: But I but this is, I think, so common amongst physicists that I’ve worked with, that it is more than just equations, more than the math. It’s that that’s physics intuition that you get that you develop, where you try and understand what this actually means and how you can encapsulate it that I think you so beautifully capture in the book. But I also, again, coming back to this this sort of idea of sort of this emotional connection, which I love. And I want to talk about that a little bit more, because you state that in contemplating the fragility of the universe and your own powerlessness to change it, it’s actually left its mark on you. So this, again, gets back to that emotional connection. So how did it leave its mark on you? What did you mean by that

S3: of this book has been a sort of existential challenge for me because, you know, I spent about two years researching and writing about the ultimate destruction of the cosmos. And that’s that’s a weird headspace to be in. You know, it’s not a normal thing to think about. There’s not a normal perspective to have. And I’m somebody for whom the idea of death is very disturbing. Like I’m not somebody for whom it’s like, oh, we’re all going to die. Like, I’m cool with that. Like, whatever, you know, life is short.

S2: So this is really important to point out that you are not somebody who embraces death.

S3: No, no. I don’t want it to happen. I’m not cool with it. I’m I’m opposed. So, so so, you know, I’m not comfortable with all that sort of morbidity and thinking about the end of the universe like we’re we’re all it it’s not just that I’m going to die, but like everybody is going to die and it’s all going to be over. And all the the cosmos, this beautiful structure of the universe that I love is going to end. And that’s a challenge. That’s an emotional hit to me, you know. And I know that it’s it’s way beyond my personal horizon. It’s very distant future, but it’s still, you know, I’m attached to the universe. You know, I have an emotional connection to the stuff. And so it has been a real you know, it’s really shaken me up to have to think about the fact that it is going to be destroyed, that we are in a special time in some sense in this cosmos, in the sense that that we are at a time when when a structure can exist in the universe. And that’s not for the whole length of all of time. There’s big parts of the timeline where that cannot happen as far as we can tell. So, yeah, so it really challenged me to find different ways to think about existence that don’t rely on everything’s going to be OK in the end. You know, that’s that’s a comforting and thought that like, OK, yeah, bad things will happen, I’m going to die, but then my memory will live on or whatever, you know, like everything in the end it’ll all be OK somehow and having to accept the fact that it won’t be OK.

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S2: Right. But but it intrigues me, though, that there is so much sort of joy and excitement here through this interview, the things that have really stood out, the all the wonder, the joy, the excitement. And I it’s fascinating to me that you’ve had to face the end of everything and you have to grapple with that. And you’re still left with that joy in that wonder.

S1: Yeah, sort of a question here towards the end, what why hasn’t the study of the universes end been as central to cosmology as the study of the beginnings? Like even me non physicist hears about the Big Bang all the time, thinks about it, and very proud of understanding the balloon expanding with the pen marks on it. Example. Now I have much further to go. I understand. But why? Why don’t we do the end as much as the beginning?

S3: I think there are a couple of reasons. I think one is that it’s it’s just it has to be it’s a more speculative thing. And there’s no getting around that because it’s talking about the future. It’s extrapolating things that we don’t fully understand. So there’s there’s just a lot that we we can’t say for certain. And the beginning of the universe, at least, you know, down to. Well, I mean, the beginning of the universe from from three hundred eighty thousand years onward is solidly observational physics, observational astronomy, like we can actually see it because we can see the light from from the big bang. We can see the sort of the sort of cooling fireball stage of the cosmos that ended it around three hundred eighty thousand years after the beginning, whatever that was. And so we can actually look at the Big Bang, you know, to to a large degree, we could actually see it. We can see this sort of final stages of the Big Bang itself. And then we can also do experiments where we can recreate the conditions of down to like something like a nanosecond or microsecond after the beginning, whatever the beginning was. And so we can study what was happening at that time. So, you know, the early universe is both an observational and experimental science in a pretty straightforward way, whereas the future is extrapolation, it’s solidly theory. And we have some pretty good extrapolations. We have a lot of data. We’re getting more data. There’s a lot we can say with reasonable certainty about what’s going to happen in the next few hundred billion years, trillion years. But as for the very, very end, it’s it’s really there’s a lot of supposition. There’s a lot of sort of going out on a limb. And and that’s I think that just sort of because of that, it’s never going to be quite as solid a science. But it’s also just I think it’s just not taking quite as seriously because we don’t have so much data. And and it is an extrapolation. And there’s no there’s clearly no practical application at the moment for understanding the end of the universe. And so it’s often been kind of like, oh, that’s philosophy. But but as I try and explain in the book, I think that really is it’s science and it’s very much in in the realm of of scientific discovery now. And that’s somewhat new. You know, it’s not that long since we’ve discovered a lot of the things that we think will govern the future evolution of the cosmos. So it’s a good time to be talking about it.

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S2: So I and I think in the book, you might make a really strong case for why we should be excited about this, why we should be studying it. But just as we wrap up, if you have the opportunity to go to a bunch of middle schoolers and your job was to convince them that this was the most exciting, important thing for them to be studying, what would you say to them?

S3: I think what I would say is that in the next decade or so, we are going to have so much information, so much data from new surveys of galaxies, from the study of gravitational waves, these ripples in space time from new particle experiments that are going to show us more about about the fundamental workings of particle physics and how that connects with cosmology. Like we’re just we’re going to need more people to study this stuff. There’s going to be this huge wealth of data to play with. And we’re going to learn so much. You know, the biggest mysteries in the universe right now, dark matter and dark energy. These two invisible things that make up ninety five percent of what the universe is we are are going to learn so much that’s going to teach us about those aspects of the universe. And so if you get into it now, you might be the one to figure that out. You might be in in the place to find out the biggest mysteries in the universe. And I think that’s a really exciting thing.

S2: I love that. What a great place to end. Katie Mack, thank you so much for this. It has been fascinating and lightning. And again, congratulations on a fantastic book.

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S3: Thank you so much. This has been a huge amount of fun for me.

S1: We know it is fun to read. I was not expecting that, Katie, OK? And I really I just I discovered so much and it was really I love the examples and I love that. It’s very generous of you to share so much, I think. Thank you. Thank you.

S3: Thank you so much.

S2: Katie, Andrew, favorite Nebbiolo,

S1: Horsehead,

S2: great choice. It is

S1: so beautiful, it is, but we can’t show you what it looks like, but we

S2: could show you what it sounds

S1: like in a segment we call Sounds of Space. OK, Andrew, what was that?

S2: Well, I’m pretty sure that wasn’t a Nampula, you know, after all of that leading goodness me, sounds like a generator. It sounds like I’ve been shoved away in some basement somewhere and there’s a generator that’s repairing away in the corner. How close is that?

S1: Not not close.

S2: OK, no, let me let me have another guess. OK, so maybe it’s a piece of machinery. Maybe you’re up on the International Space Station and you’ve got some weird gizmo purring away. I like this idea of purring. That’s definitely purring, something purring away in the corner on the ISS.

S1: It did actually make me think about vacuuming on Saturday mornings on the. Yes. Which we do do. OK, much more fun than down here, but that is the sound of our sun. Wow. These solar sounds were taken from 40 days of data from the Michelsen Doppler imager. It’s an instrument that studies the properties of the sun’s interior by listening to waves. That was the sound of solar oscillations. Wow. They’re driven by convection near the sun’s surface. And the beating corresponds to the time it takes for the waves to travel from the surface of the sun to the center and back.

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S2: I can just have this image in my head, this this beating with the sun just oscillating it in and out, almost like breathing well.

S1: And actually the waves are sped up for us to bring it within hearing range. So our sun is like constantly churning and vibrating and that’s what it sounds like.

S2: Wow. It almost sounds like an angry bee when you say it like that, but isn’t that incredible? So these are actually waves going back and forth inside the sun that we can then actually signify. And here, that is unbelievable.

S1: When I listen to it again, I do.

S2: But actually just I’ve got to get back to this nebula thing. So I was I was expecting this sort of beautiful, ethereal music associated with a nebula. But when you think about it, our sun is just as incredible. This incredible ball of burning, boiling hydrogen fire with these incredible sounds that’s that are associated with that.

S1: I actually think of pictures that we can take these days where we can actually see like a transit of the sun when the space station is coming across and it looks so, you know, sort of like this peaceful place and it’s just cruising across. And you zoom in on those pictures, you can see the solar rays, but this is not a place to get too close to.

S2: This is not a peaceful place, but it’s an exciting moment.

S1: Let’s listen to that again.

S2: That’s our show for this week. Thank you so much for joining us.

S1: Mission Interplanetary is produced by Lance Garrahy. Our sound designer and engineer is Steven Christensen, and our music was composed by Mario Energous.

S2: Please subscribe to our podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, leave us a review. Email us at interplanetary podcast at LSU Dot Edu and do recommend us to your friends.

S1: Mission Interplanetary is a production of Arizona State University’s Interplanetary Initiative and slaked.

S2: We’ll be back next week asking the big questions about space exploration

S1: and the future interplanetary. We’ll see you there.