Usain Bolt’s Greatness Code

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S1: The following program may contain explicit language. It’s Friday, July 10th, 20 20 from Slate’s The Gist. I’m Mike Pesca. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vandeman served his country well.

S2: Then he served it so well he was asked to serve no more removed from the White House in a clear act of political revenge. Benjamin properly raises the red flag over Trump’s improper conduct in a call with the president of Ukraine.

S3: Trump beat impeachment and removed the lieutenant colonel and also his twin brother, whose misdeeds seems to have been that he shared DNA with Alexander. Here’s how Chris Hayes on MSNBC put it.

S4: And now today, Lieutenant Colonel Vim and announced he’s retiring from the army, citing bullying, intimidation and retaliation by President Trump.

S3: You know, call me perhaps harsh, cruel, judgmental, old fashioned, but bullying. There’s something about complaining about bullying that if you’re an Army lieutenant colonel, doesn’t sit well with me. Oh, don’t get me wrong. Trump’s a bully. But the job of a guy like Venkman is to stand up to bullying. No, actually, I got to say, that is too harsh upon reflection. I do think I know what’s going on. Bullying. And that’s a quote from Vinton’s lawyer. I haven’t heard him saying that it’s in the air and it’s an accurate charge. It’s an unpresidential thing to do. And it strikes a lot of people, maybe more sensitive people than I as a shameful misdeed. So if it’s apt, why not tag Trump with the descriptor if it draws sympathy accurately? So I won’t begrudge its use. But also, there’s this. I think Trump is a wannabe bully. He tries to bully. But my own sense is that while he’s a mean, blustery jerk. He mostly is not a successful bully when he’s opposed by anyone with enough standing competence and backbone to do something about him. Now, you’d think that as president there’d be few in that position. But he’s so bad at his job and bullying that many, many have. So I guess that’s my issue. Not disagreeing that Venkman was bullied. Not saying anything other than Trump tries to bully. I’m not saying that. But it’s more that I’m wishing that on the way out, vitamin didn’t give Trump even the partial satisfaction of thinking his bully tactics worked on the show today. A New York Education Council meeting goes cuckoo bananas. If you’re heard about it before, I actually will try to talk about it in a new light. But first, Usain Bolt has traversed 100 metres in less time, nine point five, eight seconds than anyone ever has run that length. His nine point six three Olympic time is a record. His lightning bolt nickname is more than appropriate. It is damn awesome. You know, I was there in the crowd covering the 2012 Olympics when he won gold in the hundred meters. It was the most exciting ten seconds of sports I have ever witnessed. And I’m a Mets fan. The Mets. No Mets are included in the new Apple series, The Greatness Code. But Tom Brady is Katie Ledecky, LeBron James, they are, as is my next guest. Usain Bolt.

S1: Usain Bolt held the title The World’s Fastest Man Longer than any other man, a winner of three golds and three straight games, Beijing, London and Rio. Though it now stands at eight since one of his teammates and one of the medleys was disqualified years later. Usain Bolt is now part of a series for Apple TV called The Greatness Code. It is a co-production of The Interrupted, which is LeBron James and Maverick Carter Shop, and Gotham Chopra, who’s the director. Him and Tom Brady have another shop, and they do these excellent and visually stunning small documentaries about athletic greats. There really is no greater in his sport than you say. And Bolt, who joins me now. Thanks for coming on.

S5: You’re saying I’m happy to be here.

S1: So first question, Segway scooters discontinued production of the Segway in 2005. A Segway scooter bowled you over at the world championships. Are you happy about Segway getting out of the scooter business?

S5: No, I did. I did not know that. I did not know that. But the weirdness could have visitors. Those.

S1: You. Are you. Did you when you got hit by that Segway, did you say I could do this better? What was that? What was going through your mind?

S5: Now I was thinking at that time.

S1: So let’s start where you started the start of the race. You, compared to the others at the elite level, would always start a little slowly. Was that because of your size? You’re so much taller, you essentially took more time to unfold?

S5: Yes, definitely. Is definitely because of old taller. And a lot of people said it wouldn’t work for me because I would never be a good hundred meter runner just because of my height.

S1: Right. So you were this you were the tallest one ever. Who who achieved any sort of success? The fact that you are so much taller. Do you think your height actually helped you?

S5: Yes, I definitely do think so. And I mean, the ability setback I had was my start. But once I get going. My does everything because my legs are longer as I cover more ground than a shard of people.

S1: Right. And by shorter people, we mean sometimes people are six feet tall. Well, yeah, it does. So when you were training, did you have to. I know about and you talk about it in the documentary, you’re extremely dedicated. But was there a time where you and your training team had to say, look, you’re never going to be an elite starter? All we can do is try to make you the best you can be. But don’t kill yourself trying to, you know, match some of your teammates or some of the others on the world stage.

S5: Definitely. My coach my coach Demos tells me that all the time, even before championships, I remember 2012 Olympics, I had lost to my my teammate at the time, Yohan Blake. I thought Charles and I when we got to the Olympics, I was worried about my. And he said to me, don’t forget when I was going out for 100 meters, he said, listen, forget about your start. You will never be a great starter. Just forget about it and just go and execute. That’s all you need to do. So he always reminds me that I’m never going to be the greatest that starts inside of me to do my best and the rest will come.

S1: So at that time, your coach’s job was not to push you to try harder. It was almost to pull you back from to accept at least one limitation in your game.

S5: He just made sure I was good enough. He you watched me start and he just refined my start to make sure I could get to top speed as quickly as possible. That was always a key thing when it comes to my start. If I if I get it technically right, then I’ll get to stuff quicker. So that was our only focus, was never to react quickly, was just to make sure we got all the blocks and we got it done right in training.

S1: Just. I’m actually ignorant of this. Do you ever go all out for a hundred? Do you ever set times that are comparable to the times, the legendary times of nine five eight or nine six three that we all know?

S5: We do run hard, but you never really get to that because competition gives you that zone and then that extra edge. But we do do time trials and training and stuff.

S1: When you run in training, do you know when you if. If I didn’t put a clock on you, would you always know when you ran your fastest? And was it because you just know that technically you executed and that’s the best you could do?

S5: Yeah, definitely. You can tell when you run fast and train. One thing my coach always praised me about is that I generally know say because this year on fifteen, I know the pace to run to run 15. He always, always said, I’m very good at doing that. So I definitely know when I run fast from when it was going good.

S1: So what’s it like to run? I know you’re measuring kilometers, but you’re running essentially twenty eight miles an hour. Does it feel fast or does it feel more in your body that you’re burning and churning?

S5: For me, 100 meters, it definitely feels fast. Personally, NAJIMY is definitely feels fast. It feels because we hit the ground so quick and I was continuous gone. Feels like you. I wouldn’t say fly with levitating sometimes because of how I run, I run the tallest tries and that is right at 28 miles an hour.

S1: Can you think. Can you really make adjustments or see what your competitors are doing?

S5: Yeah, definitely. I, i 10 for me I, I know every step of most of my hundred meters because I take note and I look around something that my coach hates, but it’s been a part of me since I was running from a younger age.

S1: So I’ve seen clips. Maybe you have to LeBron James will be asked about a play and his recall is stunning. He’ll know where everyone on the court was. He just has that sort of awareness. Are you saying you have something similar to that sport? You know, and do you know where your competitors are stepping to? Can you actually, like, close your eyes and see that in a race?

S5: Because especially in the finals for me, because I’m I’m always starting slow. I’m always behind everybody at the start. So I tend to take note of where everybody is and where the danger is, because I know who is probably going to be the next fastest. So I tend to take note of if they’re in front, are there behind. But I can’t see their legs. I’m not really looking at their legs. I’m just checking where they are and telling myself, you know what, I need to go faster or I can back or stuff.

S1: Do you think the 200 meters would be more popular if it didn’t require a turn?

S5: I don’t know. I don’t know why it’s not popular. I can say about is what is actually my favorite event.

S1: I think so. Right. Because it has. I mean, I know the hundred is really fast and it’s the world’s fastest man, but the 200 has a little more subtlety to it.

S5: Well, for me, the reason I like it is because I grew up on the twins and I’ve always I was really. But as you said, I was really bad at the start when I was younger so I could never make a final foot on Jamila’s. But a tournament for me was something that was always I always win is always good. So over time, I got really good at Tunja because I practiced so much running to run the curve. So it became a part of me, something that I really enjoy.

S1: Do you think the curve is to your advantage? You are better at that than the competitors.

S5: Yeah, different things. I think just short years and I’ve developed my technique that run into a curve is very good. I run so many tons meters over the years and I’ve learned so much from my coach is that I think technical wise, running the curve, I get that I advantage because I’m not good at doing it in the documentary in the Greatness Code.

S1: It’s short as six minutes. It’s really well done visually. But they talk about Tyson Gay as a competitor. I have two questions about this. One is, did your competitors drive you or did the time drive you?

S5: My competitors.

S1: So if your competitors were a little less fast, might your world record be a little less fast enough?

S5: And maybe maybe because I live for competition. So I think maybe you never know. It’s hard to answer. But maybe the possibility is there.

S1: Was it easier for you when your competitor was from another country like Tyson Gay vs. Johan Blake, your countrymen?

S5: No. For me, as long as your competitor, your competitor, I take you very seriously.

S1: Do you generally move quickly in routine everyday tasks?

S5: No, absolutely not. I’m actually very lazy when I tell people that they don’t believe I’m actually they’re my lazy person.

S1: What about just walking on the street? You have a fight. I know you have a long stride, but are usually faster than the groups or slower.

S5: I would say slower, I, I just run faster. Everything else I do at the normal pace, I would say.

S1: Yeah, I know. I want to ask you about your name. It’s a great name you’re saying. But of course Bolt Bolt without a nickname means to move fast, which is amazing. But then you modify it with lightning. It becomes the fastest thing known to man. Now about lightning bolt. What I was thinking of it, it would be as if Michael Phelps name was Michael Fish and he used the nickname Swordfish. And then every time he won a race, he would do a sword gesture. So did you. Were you calling yourself lightning bolt from an early age or is that something that, you know, you thought of later on?

S5: I actually got that name when I went to. Those bombers are the Kolff, the games. And that’s where they need me, lightning bolt, because I was winning all the races and the Jamaicans were in bombers. They nicknamed me Lightning Bolt. And from then the name kind of stuck to me.

S1: And what about the gesture? Did you invent that?

S5: Yeah, I actually invented it.

S1: And the gesture we saw in 2016 or the last time we saw you run, was that the earliest version of it? Or did you workshop that over the years?

S5: For me, it’s always been the same. Pretty much from 08 when we started out. That’s the first time I did. After I won the hundred meters, I did it. And then it just became a part of me. I and everybody knew me because of the polls.

S1: And it just became something that people change our theme, if you will, and training for an Olympics like the Olympians. This you were and then Olympics was. The Olympics were canceled. How much would that throw your training off?

S5: Well, it does determine the coach and the coach decides if we continue training our you probably give us like a month off or whatever and then start over again. But for me, I just go along with a coach. Over the years, I’ve I’ve always believed my coach. So I just work with what he says.

S1: It probably helps you to kind of surrender some of the mental aspect to him. Exactly. Yeah, I would. If there is an Olympics, but it’s before an empty crowd. Do you think that would make you slower? Will that make the competitors slower?

S5: I think the crowd helps. I mean, it really helps for for people to be there. So time I don’t think the Times will be as fast and still be competitive, but I don’t think the times will be hard for us.

S1: When you ran the record setting nine five eight, as you know, in the last time, he gets a second hundredth of a second, you look a little to your left. Do you think if you had just looked straight and leaned at the end, it could be, you know, a nine, five, five or something?

S5: It could have definitely been faster if I wasn’t looking around. And that’s one of the things I told you my coach always complains about, is that why do you need to look left and right? Just run straight. It’s been a part of me since I started running. That’s something that I always do.

S1: Yeah, well, I guess it’s easier for coaches say that to the guy who comes in second.

S5: What if I think if I actually didn’t do that, I would definitely run faster now that you are retired.

S1: How is your training? Your training has had to have gotten less intense. But are you training very differently? Just working out privately.

S5: I work out when I start putting weight on like, oh, put weight on in our work out as soon as it goes, I stop. So because it’s still hard and it’s something that I go. I don’t need to be doing this. I mean, so because I’ve been training since I was like twelve, I’ve always been this training. And so now I’m older. I just I just don’t want to do anything, but I still want to look good. So I work out enough to look good in retirement.

S1: What do you do? How do you replace that competition that you lived on when you were an active athlete?

S5: For me, um, I don’t do anything. And I mean, I just continue working with sponsors and everyone. But like, when I watch soccer and stuff, I do miss it. And I feel that energy and I see the celebrations and stuff like that. I do like I do miss it. But I know that the moment I step back on the track, I’m not going to miss it. So I know it’s just for a minute.

S1: Do you think when the next great sprinter comes along, you’re going to be defensive of your time or you’re going to say records were made to be broken? It looks like it’s a few years off, but what do you expect will happen?

S5: For me, it was never it was never about fast times. I mean, I was it was about competition and winning and making my name. So for me, the Olympic medals mean a lot more to me than next to the fastest man in the world. That was always my aim to win back to back titles. I’m the only person to have won three Olympics back to back.

S1: And that for me is is going to be harder to break than actually a time when that last medal was taken away because they found the doping result from nine years ago. What were your emotions or what are your emotions about that?

S5: For me, I think because it happened after I actually won my last Olympics. It didn’t affect me as much. It I mean, it felt bad to lose a medal, but it wasn’t like, oh, my God, you know, I mean, I feel like if it happened before the Olympics, then it would have been hard on me, but it happened after.

S1: So other athletes in the series like LeBron and Tom Brady and Katie Ledecky and Alex Morgan, you know, I think of them, they do these great things like you did. I wonder, as a great athlete, is there ever an athlete who does something that where you say, I can’t believe it? Not from a physical perspective, but from a mental perspective, that you just marvel at another athlete’s mentality all the time?

S5: For me, because I watch a lot of sports. And for me, I think Christiane Runout stands out for me because Schroeter years and see where she has come from. I mean, every team who has been in has dominated and he has done so great thing. And his work ethic and his mindset and everything for me is, is it was me to know that he works as hard as he does.

S1: I don’t know if you. Did you watch that Michael Jordan documentary that was on ESPN? Yes. One of it was great. It was interesting. But, you know, a thesis was that you can’t have that kind of greatness without being a little remorseless, without being maybe a little cruel and kicking the ass of the people around you. Do you buy that thesis?

S5: I mean, I think everyone is different. I mean, for me, I was always focused on what I want, and that’s that’s it. I was always told nothing bothered me. I was just always focused on being the best. And I mean, but everybody these are things differently for me. Throw my career bars. I love to party. But part of for me helped me to achieve because that’s the way I relax. And I mean so for me, everybody’s different.

S1: You say Bolt, the great sprinter, is one of the featured subjects of Apple TV’s The Greatness Code. Thanks so much. Good talking to you soon. All right. No problem. Appreciate it.

S3: And now the spiel I hate mobs, hate mob mentalities, mobs might be well-intentioned. The mob might have some real reasons for being passionate, but the mob always goes too far and gets it at least somewhat wrong. So since these are my principles, accuracy, good inaccuracy, bad conclusions drawn from groupthink, bad need to question those. I will apply those principles to a recent contretemps that might have flitted across your consciousness. So a member of the New York City Community Education Council from Manhattan District two got quite upset at a fellow member of a New York City Community Education Council for Manhattan District two. And this was after a stressful four hour meeting over Zoome, which like a 12 hour meeting in real life. Over the course of this meeting, council member Tom Rockledge, a white man at a few different times, held a friend’s baby on his lap. The baby was black, and then Rockledge made a joking remark about integration. Now Rockledge is a member of the voting bloc within this council that wants to continue the practice of having top students testing to top schools. But the woman who got a lot of attention for harshly criticizing him is a member of the block who wants to eliminate all screening for performance because she and her side argue that it’s the only way to undo the segregation that exists in the New York City schools. Black and brown students in the district do, in fact, attend schools with fewer parental resources than the top schools. The screen, the schools, those schools are largely attended by white and Asian students. So that’s a background. If you’re worrying about the baby, don’t worry, it comes up soon. It wasn’t the substance, but the manner of the critique aimed at Rockledge that made headlines. And the headlines weren’t about school screening. They were about racism. Here is a second of council member, Rob Ambrosi, screaming on his room. Call me. And I’m trying to be a martyr.

S6: I tried it straight to you. You think I’m a. Excuse me. You think I’m a social justice. And you think I’m being patronizing and I’m getting pressure for not being an advocate. And I take that to heart. And that hurts me. And I want to make out to be a better white person.

S3: Robin heard there expressed those and similar feelings throughout a follow up meeting to the four hour one where Tom held the baby and she, Robin, was pilloried, mocked, screen shotted in an unattractive pose and described in headlines like the following Media Resource Council White NYC ed councilwoman explodes at fellow council member for holding a black child is a white man holding a black child racism racist behavior for holding a black baby on his lap. SJW Kerans accused NY Volunteer of racism, crazy woak and anti-racism insanity on NY Education Council. Yosh amongst new magazine Persuasion asks Is it racism for a white man to bounce a brown baby on his lap? Robin’s outburst was played over and over and over again, often on YouTube shows that had Tom Rockledge as a guest. Tom did not disabuse the hosts of their worst interpretations.

S7: But the story crazy story is he was at an Education Council meeting and he’s being asked to resign. For having a black child in his lap. More than one occasion. And the accusation is that he was using the black baby as a prop. But it sure seems and we’re all you’re going to get to see it played out more. It sure seems that these people accusing him of racism are really using that these poor black children in this situation as a prop. Take it away, Tom. That’s absolutely correct.

S3: But it’s not they were not objecting to the bouncing of the baby. They they were not using the baby as a prop. They were objecting to something else. But you have to know that Tom was there with a brown child to make that something else understandable. And it was this joke that Tom made a living here.

S7: It was integrated.

S3: Right now, the only way to understand what could have been grating about that comment is to know that Tom was there with his daughter, his daughter’s friend, who’s black, and she had her younger brother over. That was the baby. That was the baby on Tom’s knee multiple times. Now, why did the joke let’s think of it as a joke. Why does it rankle so much? I mean, it could’ve been laughed off, right? I mean, teeth could have been gritted, eyes could’ve been rolled. In fact, they were. It’s the context of the meeting, the context where Tom cracked wise about his integrated living room. And it’s this that the board, no exaggeration, for three hours discussed issues of exactly racial integration or related to racial integration. They were on display. They were evoking great passions. Black parents, white parents. We’re talking about it here as one parent, not a board member, just a citizen.

S4: And as an African-American woman, I support ending screen schools. I am disappointed at how segregated these schools ended up becoming.

S3: Here, I’ll play tape of the first black man to speak up at the meeting. Also just a parent in the district.

S8: My name is Robert Osborne. As a black person, I remain angered about the murder of Church Floyd and so many African-American men and women by the police. But I’ve also been heartened by the fact that for the first time in my life, I feel like our society is questioning their assumptions and really listening with regard to systemic racism in our policing. I’ve sat through many of these CCC meetings listening to calls for our district to keep screens as the basis of our admissions process.

S3: Let me tell you, as you hear that, what’s going on on the screen. So it’s a typical Google video screen. You see a dozen faces. You see Tom. Tom, however, is the only one who’s fussing with his camera. In fact, during the entire meeting, Tom is the only one who in any way moved the camera or plays with visuals. It’s what Tom is doing now as he pans the camera during the 45 seconds this black man is talking to show his daughter and her black friend and they wave at the camera. Why? I don’t know. What’s the effect? It distracts from the speaker. Tom’s also the only one in the meeting to have a dry erase board. And he scrawls a message, couple of messages on the dry erase board. So here is Robin.

S4: During the original meeting where she is introducing her resolution and dismantling one piece about screen schools saying, but dismantling one piece of that systemic racism, which is so as she’s introducing a resolution.

S3: Here’s what every other person in the meeting is doing, listening. They’re looking straight into the camera. Some are nodding. Some are blank face. They all seem to be listening. But here’s what Tom is doing. He’s taken out a magic marker just as she starts talk and starts scrawling a message on the whiteboard behind him. What’s it say? What’s he’s writing? Robin’s talking, but he pulls focus that mid statement. We see what Tom has written. It is that all co-sponsors of the resolution send their children to screened schools. Aha. It’s an accusation not against the content of the resolution or the wisdom of the resolution, but of the motivation of the sponsors of the resolution. Is it fair? Is it unfair? I don’t know. I know that no one else on the council makes such points in this attention grabbing way. The position, by the way, that everyone on this council has, it’s unpaid. It takes hours and hours of time. All participants are just there to do what they see is right for their students. For students of the district, no one beside Tom is sloganeering. We’re using whiteboards or detracting from anyone else as they make their points. The rest of them just speak like adults and then they vote. So I have to the whiteboard after the talk of integrating schools, after the testimony of many members of the school board. By the way, after Tom not only writes his message on the board, but traces it to make sure that it’s in bold. That’s when he makes the crack about I’m in an integrated living room. Then everyone waits a month, and in the next meeting, all hell breaks loose. And that’s the meeting that you’ve seen. If you have of clips and headlines about WOAK parents and SJW using Kerins there, Tom takes umbrage that Robin could possibly have a problem with statements about her children being scrawled out on a white board.

S6: You would think that that’s a tramp point, that you dragged my children into this conversation. I school your behavior. If she has guy I’ve ever behaved at a meeting. I’ve only been polite. I’ve been polite. Tom, I like you. That’s why I love you so much. And now I know why you called him. So he’s just kind of a mess. Nothing. My said was saying nothing. I was being polite to people like you. What exactly was incorrect about what I wrote on the whiteboard? Robin. They say.

S3: It can be both a fact and an attack. It can be a factual attack. That’s an appropriate for a volunteer community board that, by the way, has no power other than to make recommendations. And also, let me make this point that Tom’s factually pointing out that Robin sends her kid to a screen school. Well, what if she didn’t? I mean, then you could make the point that, you know, she doesn’t send her kid to a screen school. And what she’s arguing for is for unscreened schools to essentially get more resources. So she just wants to help her own kid. That’s her motivation. So either way, you can make the charge of hypocrisy or you can make the charge of self dealing. Probably better off is to not make a charge on a whiteboard. Not that productive. Now it’s time for me to tell you my personal connection to this very meeting, this very body. This is the Community Education Board that encompasses my son’s school. In this meeting, we’re members.

S4: We’re arguing back and forth factually correct that my living room was integrated at the moment. Don’t roll your eyes, Emily. Don’t roll your eyes.

S3: Yeah, I was watching in shock, but also with interest, because at times my son’s middle school was brought up specifically and his future was pretty much on the table.

S1: Well, it would be if this political body had any power. They don’t. They can just make a recommendation. It gets ignored two or three months ago. I actually was the speaker in one of these meetings. I saw the resolution that I supported passed this council and then I saw the New York chancellor ignore it. Furthermore, after that meeting, I texted Tom a few times, asked him about his positions and his votes. I also texted Robin, who a couple of years ago was a parent in the elementary school my son attended, and a really good parent like one of those. This school would be worse. But for her parents, this gets complicated because I actually agree down the line with the stances that Tom is taking, meaning his policy positions are my policy positions. And on every issue that I know of where Tom and Robin disagree. Tom’s position is the one I agree with, not Robert. Also, I chafe at Robin and some of her like minded members, constantly citing the white fragility. Author Robin D’Angelo. But I guess Robin’s got to respect Robin’s. Reed White Fragility, Reed Ibrahim Kendy is not the most practical way to move a conversation forward. But when the conversation is why am I a racist? How can you call me a racist?

S3: Robin gave the answer that she gave the answer that you heard the answer that I think it’s fair for people to call a bit unhinged and answer that many people have called unhinged. But she could have said as well, Tom, why I said you conducted a racist act. Is that three hours into a four hour meeting where several members of your community were onscreen talking about the pain of segregation? That’s still very much exists in our district. Your one comment on the idea was to note that your home is personally integrated at that very moment, which we knew because we got to watch you cavort with that cute, small, brown kid very often. And by we got I mean, not just me and not just everyone else here, but all the people, all the citizens who spoke up and all the people who didn’t speak up because they don’t want to spend four hours listening to your dismissiveness.

S1: So maybe that’s why we all took a little bit of umbrage that you didn’t take what we took extremely seriously. You made a joke about it. Now, I. Mike, I’m not saying that that’s what she should have said, because it’s really hard when you’re being challenged and interrupted by a guy who called out your kids via a whiteboard, who defeated your resolution and who would go on to take a victory lap in social media about how he’s the high minded one. You’re not. And, you know, there really is the thing. It is true about punishing females for their rage. It’s female rage that gets screen shotted and mocked. And look at the screen shots in YouTube about this. You’ll see what I mean. You know, I think if you cut together a version of that meeting where Robin was yelling at some of the other board members were yelling, and you dubbed Robin’s voice with, say, a subdued Patrick Stewart and her expressions were replaced by a serene looking Meryl Streep. Probably wouldn’t seem that bad. I mean, the transcript makes decent enough points and Tom might not seem so brave. And it also might be more stark and shocking when Tom goes on sympathetic YouTube channels with hosts like Benjamin Boyce. And there he seems much less bound by the norms of civility within a meeting. Tom doesn’t really pause in engaging in insults to fellow council members with whom he disagrees.

S4: These social justice warriors who come in from their Manhattan condos say no, na na na. Even if you take the same tests as everybody else, you are white edges your privilege somehow and you don’t deserve to be in those schools. And these are people coming from communist regimes who went through all sorts of hoops to get here. And those are the people that they’re blocking. It’s astounding. Yeah, it’s absolutely infuriating. And as you say, cognitive dissidence or what we used to call hypocrisy is just choosing from the people. Oh, yeah.

S3: Yeah. Useful critique. So Robin lost her. Cool. And Tom actually is right on the stances, or at least I agree with him. But also, let’s really remember, the mob doesn’t always give you the fairest picture of what went on. You want to call Robin? Karen, I can’t stop you from using that lady’s name. That has certainly been affixed to her. But if Robin’s a Karen, isn’t Tom a little bit of a dick?

S1: And that’s it for Today Show, Margaret Kelly and Daniel Shrader produced the Just the executive producer of Slate podcasts as Alicia Montgomery. They would like to note that you’re seeing Bolt’s name compares well to our order, the discus thrower, if his name were Al Fling and he did that Spinney’s Spinney’s throw motion whenever he discussed really well the gist. Usain Bolt, fun fact. You’re saying his middle name is Saint Leo. I asked you saying which Saint Leo of the five St. Leo’s is the one you’re named after. And he did not know and protect. Heard you prove. Thanks for listening.