Succession: “Rubberneck the Train Wreck”

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S1: Guys, this is succession. This is HBO, if you don’t want to hear me talking about Logan Roy talking about. Then don’t listen to this, there are bad language words in this show.

S2: Hello.

S1: Welcome to the Rubberneck, the train wreck episode of Late Money Succession, where we’re going to talk about episode seven, Kendall’s catastrophic birthday party. I’m Felix Salmon of access. I’m here with Emily Peck a fundraise. Hello, and we have a very strange stranger coming in to join us. Actually, we have dragged Stacy on Stacy-Marie Ishmael welcome. Hi, we finally managed to get you onto the succession show and we’ve made you watch like, I don’t know how many seasons in succession to get up to speed on this one.

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S3: It’s all right again. Weekends, baby, what a trooper.

S1: So Stacy’s going to join us to talk about Kendall’s Hudson Yards 40th birthday party and all of the crazy that goes on there. It’s coming up on slate. Many succession. Hello, Stacey. Hi, welcome. I’m very excited to have you on because this is more or less what happened at your 40th birthday, right?

S3: I’m not going to tell anybody how old am but a hard pass. It absolutely was not what happened at any birthday that I’ve ever had.

S1: Emily What do we make of Kendall 40th birthday party?

S4: I mean, this was just

S1: where was Josh Aronson? I thought Josh Aronson was going to show up, but he didn’t show up.

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S4: I mean, he might have been there. There’s a lot of name dropping and a lot of implying that a lot of homeless people are at this party, but we don’t really see many of these people, except for Lucas Madsen, the Gojo founder who’s at the party in the Tree House. But this is this is the poor little rich boy episode. This is like candles, you know, feeling sorry for himself having a tantrum in the present room episode with the bow on the motorcycle, but he just wants his kids gifts, breaking down, having a tantrum like we all knew Kendall was going to kind of crash and burn this season and like, here’s how he did. It is how I was looking at it.

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S1: I mean, I feel he’s crashed and burned like in every single episode this season. Like, this is just the season of Kendall having a series of just crashes. Meanwhile, it’s the season of Roman, just like kind of coming into his own and being, like, vaguely useful for change,

S3: but also horrifying. I mean, there were at least three different things he did in that episode that was like Hashtag, what the fuck? It’s just like my guy.

S1: Yeah, I mean, Roman in the bathroom seems to be the thing, right? How many scenes have we had with Roman in the bathroom? And like, it’s where he comes into his own?

S4: Yeah, I mean, I said it in the in the last episode with Taffy that Roman has a bathroom thing. And then we actually after we got done recording that episode, I went and watched this episode like right after I was like, I have to know what happens in the birthday. And I could nap. I almost wanted to like, get back on the zoom with you guys and be like, Did you see Rob in the bathroom urinating on the mobile phone? What was that? He just deals in the bathroom now? Is this a real thing? Is this the most brow tech thing that’s ever happened up there? This is how Roman wins and Shiv loses just because he can go into the bathroom and she can’t. Is that what’s going on?

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S1: I mean, like, there were so many different layers of VIP room in this in this episode, like the whole party is like an ultra VIP party, and there’s the clipboard iPad person at the front door asking everyone to give up their phones. And then within the VIP party, there’s like the VIP room, which you need to be able to get into. And then within the VIP room, there’s the VIP treehouse. And then someone connected to the VIP room is the VIP bathroom. And then the VIP. And then so like, what happens is the Roman sort of extricate Lucas from the VIP treehouse moves him into the bathroom, which is even more exclusive because there’s no one else in there. And that’s where the deal happens. And then magically, at the end of the episode, he’s already managed to procure himself like another cell phone so that he can call his dad and crow about having got the deal done.

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S4: Oh, you think it was a different one? I just thought he, like, wiped it off and it was fine, but I don’t think too deeply about it. But before we talk more about the episode, I sort of want to hear all about Stacy’s. I want to hear Stacy’s succession thoughts and big-picture take because I’m so happy you’re here with us. And I just want to know everything you think about the show. And also, I’ll just get this one more thing up. I also want to know what you guys think of all the backlash that I’m seeing on Twitter about this show. People say it’s bad now, and I want to know also what you think of that. So go ahead. Stacey Stacy.

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S3: When I was working in Silicon Valley and the show Silicon Valley came out, I tried to watch a few episodes and I couldn’t because it was too much like work. And I feel similarly about succession, where I find it hard to be entertained by the show because too many of these people are like archetypes of actual people in media and too many of these conversations. I feel like our conversations. I’ve had the excruciating opportunity to overhear a different, you know, horrifying, unpleasant dinner parties and conferences and other stuff like that. So to me, it’s like there’s this weird combination of of hyper realism, but also both high and low comedy where, you know, I don’t know if this is something that people are reacting to in season three, but I do feel like there’s this underlying uncomfortable self-awareness in terms of the fourth wall that the show is very aware of its own ridiculousness and in a way brings the audience into that ridiculousness in a way that I find fascinating. I mean, I was really thinking about that in when Tom was like losing his mind and flip and literally flipping tables. And you were like, What? What is happening with this energy and this and this dynamic? And it makes the show feel like I’m watching like a suspense film or almost a horror where you’re like, do the people in the show know they’re going to get killed? Like, because I feel like I know that they’re going to get killed, but do they? It’s confusing. And then I also, for the purposes of this podcast, binge watched a lot of episodes in a very short amount of time. And so I think consuming horrifying wealthy people and media in, you know, aggressive weekend bursts probably colored my interpretation of of how this is for others.

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S1: Stacey, do you see a difference in tone between this season and the first two seasons? Because I do. I think this one is it’s narrower. It is more like I feel I really need to watch every episode twice in order to understand what, like what they’re doing. They’ve picked the low hanging fruit of like, you know, we’re going to make a movie about Rupert Murdoch kind of thing. And now they’re like getting into the gritty of it in a way that doesn’t reward this sort of slightly more superficial viewing that maybe would have been rewarded in the first season.

S3: Yeah, I mean, I I also feel like the writing is more nuanced in that way, like the, you know, Shiv dancing chaotically. But then having Roman sort of again in this like self-conscious slash self-aware way to be like, what were you trying to like, dance out your feelings? I think there’s there’s something interesting happening with the writing, where it’s being referential and textured and layered in a way that I didn’t get the same impression of in the first two seasons.

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S1: I think that’s right. There’s a lot of history that need to work around now,

S4: and it feels like the first two seasons you were kind of propelled by suspense, like what’s going to happen? But now we see that actually not that much is going to happen like these. These people are stuck in some kind of hell circle where they’re just fighting all the time for their dad’s attention. And that’s really probably not going to change in any material way. There’s no conclusion to this story. It’s just sort of like an endless cycle. Like, if you want something kind of good happens, it’s not good as as Tom kind of shows us in this in this episode where he’s like, freed from his prison, he’s not going to prison. He’s kind of happy about it. But by the end of the episode, he’s like, taken the wrong drugs and feels bad. And he’s doing.

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S3: He’s being he’s being a terrible person in the compliment tunnel. Yeah, he’s being

S4: so mean in the compliment and look at

S3: how awful

S1: it’s not because he’s taken to too much cocaine. But yeah, I think you’re absolutely right that we have resolved the question of the title, right? We know who the successor is, and the answer is no one is going to continue to be Logan. He’s going to stay in charge. And we have resolved the big question of like, who’s going to win the proxy war? Will they lose control of the. Company, no. They will lose control of the company. There’s no big lake overhanging like, I need to watch this show to find out what happens anymore because we know we already know what’s what happens. And so now it becomes a you know, as Stacey says, like, you know, a much more sort of detailed filigree of interpersonal, you know, stilettos, you know, you know, for each other and and that that is definitely a different kind of show. And and to your point as well, I think the the other thing that’s happened in this season is that we’ve had this series of episodes with. A guest star, so we had like one episode with Marcia and then we had one episode with Josh Aronson, we had one episode with Lucas Madsen and we had one episode with Minkin, the fascist, you know, and now and it’s becoming increasingly obvious that these are not going to be sort of naturally recurring characters. And it’s just like, you know, we bring this person in for one episode and then they disappear. And that doesn’t make for like so much fun continuity either.

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S4: Yeah, that’s such a good point. Like last season, season two, we had Holly Hunter coming back episode after episode and she had like an interesting arc and she was a character. You can get behind and you keep thinking, What? These episodes? Oh, we can get behind Josh Aronson. This is going to be fun. No, he’s gone. Yeah. And now Alexander Sarsgaard shows up and is picking on Roman’s phone, but you’re lined up on a phone. Of course, he probably won’t come back again. Like, why do I need to care? Like, they’re compelling, but it’s not enough for a TV show. You need the continuity.

S3: It feels like every episode is a bottle episode. Yes, and the whole thing is just that, like the characters are mostly the the dysfunction of the interpersonal relationships in a more in a much tighter world than previously.

S4: It could be a function of filming in a pandemic, to be fair. Right? I mean, taffy kind of talked about that a little bit, but there are all kinds of constraints put upon.

S3: I mean, she had a bunch of people at a party. That’s true.

S4: This party was so bad. Can we talk about it?

S1: Yes. Yes. Tell me. Tell me the ways in which the party was terrible.

S4: It just OK. So this is Kendall’s birthday party, and I know this because there was a sign up. Did you guys catch the sign? It was the notorious Cannes. Ready to die is the scroll on the building outside outside the park because

S1: he was going to crucify himself.

S4: Yeah, so all that’s really bad.

S3: But like while singing Billy Joel.

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S4: But like, no one’s having fun at the party, really. Like no one’s having fun at the party. As far as I can tell, people look bored, like when you go. It reminded me of like early aughts like dot com bubble kind of parties where everyone was kind of there for work and like getting drunk. But like, it wasn’t really fun in any way. And like Kendall himself walks around the party, no one seems to even care that he exists. No one’s coming up to him being like, Hey,

S3: man, have you thought it was such an amazing, dramatic choice to have him he had he didn’t have a single, meaningful interaction with anybody other than his siblings? Yeah. And his assistants for the entirety of that episode, like that was like one scene when he was walking past the staircase and like somebody like, kind of did a toast after he did a toast to them. But it wasn’t clear that any of these people even knew that it was his party. Yeah, I think that that was the level of distance.

S1: There’s that wonderful scene where, where, where Shiv is like, Go on, tell us who’s here? And he goes, Who isn’t? And then they’re like all the three siblings who died piling on. They’re like, your dad, your mom, your wife and kids.

S4: Yeah, that was amazing. It got him.

S3: That’s the lotto that’s Felix mentioned.

S1: And then the amazing way in which, like Conner, managed to work out that the single best way to just really fucking get under Kendall skin would just be to keep his coat on the whole time. I mean, come on, it becomes a cruel one.

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S3: I kept expecting a reveal like by the end, I was like, What’s under the coat? Is it a gun? Like, what’s happening here?

S1: I just it was literally it was literally just a way for him to needle Ken. And Connor has always been the least neatly of the siblings, right? He’s always been the I mean, he’s terrible, but he’s not been an expert at particularly mean to any of the others. And this was just him saying, All right, you know, this is time for me to just like poke Kendall buttons in the way that you know, an older brother knows how to do.

S3: But did he, like, was this f in the mind of Conner? Was this a snap decision when he realized there was a coach act? Did he go there planning not to take his coat off just like inquiring minds want to know?

S4: I felt like he had a standing practice.

S1: Did you notice the weird like click click click thing that he did and your coat?

S2: No, I will remain coated. Thank you, as is my right

S1: because kind of like deranged dolphin. And I was like, That was him. That was him just kind of saying, All right, I know what I’m doing here.

S4: I thought it led the whole coat thing and comfrey the assistant who I want to talk about her rebellion in this episode. But the whole the way Willa jumps in to protect to protect Connor and fight back against her trying

S3: to tear against a cashmere sweater, like, let’s be clear, she’s protecting him only like

S4: he’s pulling it almost one percent. Do you know who he is?

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S3: Four million people, Emily million.

S4: It was kind of nice. It was like they were teaming up. She was on his side. That’s kind of a rare moment. I thought,

S3: Yeah. Nobody in the show is on anybody else’s side. That’s true.

S1: Well, no, that’s actually not true, like what you see at the beginning of this episode. And in fact, kind of throughout the episode is the the one person who is unambiguously on Kendall side is Naomi. And you kind of wonder why exactly like how this she managed to just be so supportive without having any obviously ulterior motives beyond perhaps like actually, I wouldn’t mind like dating a guy with $2 billion in cash.

S3: OK, so what she did kind of say she like, Well, what would your take be, but let at the beginning when he’s like, This seems like a good idea, right? And she’s like, she gives the most insane non-answer answer. It’s like, Yeah, that’s right. And you’re like, What is right? Which part of which? Part of his statement about if he should be crucified singing Billy Joel, are you agreeing or disagreeing with it was sort of a master class and obfuscation.

S4: I didn’t think she approved of any of it. And then when he finally says he’s not going to do it because it’s stupid. The relief was palpable. And then in fact, the PR woman says something like, Thank fucking God, but everyone was very happy when he decided not to be. I mean,

S1: everyone knew it was crazy, but like, and obviously Naomi knew it was crazy, but she was going to be there and support him in his crazy if that was what he wanted to do. Well, well, you know, someone like Roman is just like, I’m here to watch rubberneck. Your Trainwreck rubberneck with Trainwreck. Exactly.

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S4: And I thought there was a nice parallel when he’s contemplating so. So like, I guess the big dramatic moment is his father, Logan sends them a birthday card with the word Happy birthday with the words Happy Birthday crossed out and offering him offering to buy out his shares, which for for over $2 billion, which in the end the language and world of succession is insulting to Kendall. Like in what world do you get an offer for two billion dollars and you’re like upset about he was upset about it, right?

S1: Well, I love how it was, too. It was two billion and fifteen million. Like, we’ll throw in an extra 15 million. But yeah, like it’s like, no, I mean, Kendall clearly assumes given his relationship with his father, that the thing that his father wants him to do is something that his father doesn’t want him to not do. So his first reaction is to not do the thing that his father doesn’t want. And then his second reaction is like, I could buy all of these newspapers,

S4: but maybe Felix should we, as a public service, explain what’s going on. So only only family members could buy out Kendall. Do I have that right? Like because of the the way the shares are structured, because these are Class A shares or whatever only? Yeah, the ROI

S3: they can’t sell to people outside the family.

S4: And and that’s upsetting, because Shiv wasn’t Shiv wanted the opportunity to be involved in this deal also because the opportunity is to get more shares of Waystar Royko basically to get this like primo stock in their hands away from Kendall.

S1: Yeah, it’s not clear. It’s not clear, like where those shares would go. But what Shiv was upset about was that this deal to offer Kendall $2 billion to sell the shares and go away was one that was worked out between Logan and Roman, and Shiv was not involved. And she was like, How is it that I was not in the loop on this? And Roman was? And that just really pissed him off. And then on top of that, like Roman gets to, you know, play with toilets with Lucas Madsen and do a deal that way. And she’s like, you know, I am technically the president of this company, but in reality, I’ve just been marginalized everywhere. I have no role here anymore. I was the one who fucking saved the company by doing the deal with, you know, Sandy Junior. And now I’m just on the outside looking in what the fuck is going on. And so she’s, you know, pissed off for that reason.

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S3: I mean, it’s interesting you use the word marginalized because, you know, Roman, like, very explicitly explicitly uses kind of the rhetorical flourish of, I’m going to take your social justice language and turn it back on you. And it’s like, Yeah, you know, the men got together and like, we mansplain all of this away from you. And it was such a. There were so many pointy, sharp edged moments in that episode, but that really felt like one of the main ones because I think he was making explicit the dynamic that it’s like, we see you trying to be a man in the room, but you’re not, and we’re not going to like, we’re going to see that out loud, you know, and it it’s it’s a really in the way that her character has been presented. It seems like such a vulnerability for her where she both tries to, I don’t know, like weaponize wiles while also wanting to be part of the boys club and being aware of that inherent contradiction, but hoping that other people aren’t when clearly they are.

S4: Yeah, this seems like the arc of the season pretty much is like shivers thinking she’s she’s come in, but really, she’s still on the outside and bottoms.

S3: Very Cersei Lannister.

S1: Oh, well, I mean, she’s clearly much more in than than Connor, right? Like you remember that whole conversation that she had with Connor, with comments like I want to, you know, current affairs, TV show. And she’s like, Do you want like a wine tasting show? Like, it’s clear that she has, you know, like there’s a pecking order right now in among the siblings where Kendall’s at the bottom is reached like rock bottom at this point. And then it’s Connor, and then it’s Shiv, and then it’s Roman. But Roman is doing his very best. Like after having managed to like push Kendall to the curb to maximize the amount in the space between himself and Shevaun because she’s the only competition to him anymore.

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S4: And this episode kind of. It’s just like an unabashed win for him, like he’s walking home. He tells the car, I don’t need you, I’m going to walk home. He leaves this.

S3: I mean, obviously the car did not leave because they were probably under orders to be like, Don’t let that dude slide. But it was. It was a cute detail. Yeah, one of my favorite details in this episode is when there’s this brief close up shot of Manson’s phone, and he’s playing a video game in in the middle of this party. And I’m like, I may or may not have done that more than one time, but it was such a good rendition of This dude doesn’t want to be there. I’m not going to save the thing that he said he was there for, but he doesn’t want to be there and he’s like trying to entertain himself in a in a very introvert nerd, Margaery kind of way. I just like, I’m just going to play this mobile game while this very expensive party is going on around me.

S4: Why go at all then? I didn’t really get that. I mean, I just to position him, I guess, is like this tech bro or the Odin of code or whatever.

S1: But but yeah, it was also like, it’s very interesting to see how Kendall approach has him, right? Because Kendall and Kendall and Roman both, like, try to seduce him in their own ways. Right. And Kendall is like, What would you like? I will give you anything you want you on drugs. Do you want hookers? Do you want whatever it is you want? I can make it happen. There’s my man. He’s not a good man. You know, he does the whole city. Not a good guy. He’s not a good guy. And and and Mattson is like, you know, OK, I understand this kind of world and this kind of deal, and I will take you up on that deal and fine. But he doesn’t really think any better of can because of it. And then Roman comes in with a completely different pitch involving, like, would you like to piss on the app? And he’s like. That’s interesting. Yeah, let’s do that.

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S3: Also, that was like that escalation. I was just like, Whoa, wait, what? I think at that point I did rewind the screener just like I just I just there were two moments when I did that and that was one of them. And I was like, No, no, that’s that’s that was that sentence, Hugo. OK. You?

S4: I know. Well, I mean, Kendall didn’t have anything else to offer him. Roman has a big, you know, a deal to offer what we Kendall just has his party.

S2: Why don’t we just like take a big old piss on our app? I’m going to open up the app on my phone and we can stream some piss on our little streaming platform. How’s that sound? Fuck you! 19, 20 21 22. Yeah, so I can’t piss near other men due to we don’t know what reason. Please go ahead.

S1: And that’s the only time in the entire episode that Lucas shows any enthusiasm for anything, really. OK. Let’s talk about comfrey. Yes. Who who’s trying to call Springsteen to rescue the vibe and then that got countermanded, and now I know she’s working on a jet pack and she has to sell all of these human lunchboxes on eBay and his office wants receipts.

S4: I was so happy that finally, someone on succession is speaking up about the mistreatment because I don’t recall any this ever happening before a subordinate that low down kind of on the food chain, actually getting air time, having a speaking role. Yeah, yeah. Beyond like an eye roll or something like this is the first time I’ve ever heard any of the subordinates speak up like Kendall’s assistant. I mean, she never I want to know so much more about what that woman is thinking. Kendall assistant is just like so beaten down. I feel like and as Jess and I’m always like, When is just going to just like, lose it on him? I mean, this is crazy. But but finally, comfrey kind of breaks that breaks that wall down and starts complaining and then out of spite, she’s going to go out with Greg. That’s like a revenge to go out on a date with Greg. That’s pretty amazing to me.

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S3: Well, I mean, but is it? It was interesting to me that the thing that precipitated that breakdown was her realizing the Kendall thinks he owns every single part of her life, including her theoretical dating slash romantic life and not just her having to ship things on eBay with receipts life. Mm hmm.

S4: Right? It was. It was fun. I mean, no one thought this woman was going to say yes to Greg, Tom says. It’s like a haunted scarecrow asking out Jackie Onassis. I mean, this is really Greg’s night. As much as it’s Romans, he kind of he’s so happy and he he’s totally like aware that she’s probably saying yes to him out of spite and to get back at Kendall, but he doesn’t care. He’s still so happy about it.

S1: Greg has a good point, which is the comfrey is much less out of Greg’s league than Shiv is out of Tom’s league. And so it’s a bit rich for Tom to kind of be like, she’s out of your league.

S2: OK, well, how’d you get ship? She’s out of your league. Oh, testy crying wolf. Well, Greg, I’ll tell you, I got a dick the size of a red sequoia and I fucking like a bullet train. OK. Satisfy. Prove it now

S3: what that is, indeed what he said.

S4: He said that which

S3: what he said. And then again, another weird escalation. And this was the second thing that I had to rewind. Or maybe the first. I can’t remember the order when he was like when Greg was like, Prove it, I was like, Whoa, wait, wait. Why is there so much phallic energy? Well, I mean, like, the great

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S1: Tom is the longest lasting romantic relationship in this show. It’s been going on for three seasons, and it’s like the

S3: big question for how, you know, simulation.

S1: And if there’s any kind of meet cute, weird romance thing going on in succession, it’s Greg and Tom.

S3: So it’s not, it’s not Roman and the fascist candidate for president. Now that’s what they definitely picked up on some vibes there.

S1: Oh yeah. I mean, Roman will will will definitely get horny for anyone in the bathroom for sure of like one episode. But even even the Roman Jerry thing has been played down this season.

S4: That’s true. Everyone was kind of hoping for more of that, but there’s been less of that. And meanwhile, it’s the Tom and Greg relationship that keeps evolving. Episode two Episode Felix Did you see someone shared with us on Twitter? Someone cut together a Tom and Greg romantic comedy. They basically they cut scenes from succession to make it look like a romantic comedy movie trailer.

S2: Hi, Ma, I sort of screwed up. Greg, we’re going to get a plane ticket to New York. Your great uncle Logan’s birthday, they’re having a big party. This is cousin Greg. It’s Greg. No, I’ll answer to both. Well, here’s the look. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I’m just kind of start coming in, come in and see me and I’ll look after you. Thanks, man.

S4: It’s quite good. There’s a lot to work with, a lot of scenes where they’re having fun together and

S1: breaking where they’re looking into each other. Yeah. Breaking each other’s hair.

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S4: It’s exactly that awkward wave he gives them at the wedding. There’s just a lot to work with because, yeah, they’re the most real relationship in this whole thing. Maybe.

S1: Let’s talk a little bit. I want to talk a bit more about this sort of self-awareness of Ken when he comes out and he goes like. It just feels like an arseholes birthday party. And my thing from the very first meeting was it shouldn’t feel like an assholes birthday party, but like he was literally setting it up. You know, he’s he’s like at the beginning, I’ve gone antifragile, which is that was a good time. Yeah, he’s late. Like you remember when he’s like and I’ve talked to Harry and Gladwell, and he’s dropping all of these people like Gladwell and Tyler because he’s like, You know, that guy and and he’s like, But that’s his whole thing. Like when when he gets attacked on late night TV or when anyone has a bad tweet, he’s like, everything bad is actually good. This is the nature of anti fragility. He’s he’s completely delusional about what’s good for him and what’s bad for him. It’s like, No, actually, what’s bad for you is bad for you, Ken.

S4: I think he’s he mostly is delusional, but he always seems to have these like moments of clarity when he realizes like what a fraud he is like. There is that season one with the sneakers. He buys the expensive sneakers, right? And then he shows up to the meeting and realizes the sneakers make him kind of look like an asshole. Like, I feel like that happens to Kendall a lot like he does the asshole stuff. And then for a moment, he’s like, Wait, I’m kind of a jerk. And then he goes back, but

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S3: then carries on exact carries. That’s the thing. There’s no growth. There’s no growth. It’s just like

S1: there is there is no carrot. And that’s one of the. But that’s a defining feature of succession is that no one has a character arc with the possible exception of cousin Greg.

S3: Hmm.

S4: And that’s what makes the third season so frustrating is there’s no growth. No, no advancement.

S3: But this is this is what I mean about.

S1: And there’s no one getting like their just rewards, right? Right.

S3: Because in real life in media,

S1: yeah, everyone’s convinced that Tom is going to jail. And then randomly, Tom doesn’t go to jail and fine, and that’s just how it happens. And and she saves the company and she gets no recognition for that. And that’s just how it happens. And you know, Can is, you know, crusading on the side of righteousness and just winds up like a pathetic ruling. Nothing and a pathetic calling that thing with $2 billion, you know, a check for $2 billion being like thrusting his hand. So, you know, again, like it’s there’s it’s the show it reminds me of in some ways is the wire. In the way that there’s no like moral to any story, right, that’s it’s just like random shit is going to be random and it’s not like a tragedy where the bad guys win in the good guys lose. And it’s not like a morality tale where the good guys win and the bad guys lose. It’s just like chaos.

S4: It’s more like Seinfeld to me. It’s just like bad people doing dumb stuff. That’s pretty amusing. No one grows.

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S1: And plus plus, of course, there aren’t any good guys like everyone is terrible.

S4: Yeah, except comfrey. Maybe she’s fine.

S3: No, she’s going out with Greg because she’s like, bad at Kendall. Like, this is like, I mean, I saw somebody on Twitter saying, you know, they were rewatching Home Alone, and that just made them realize how terrible all the adults are in that show. And somebody else chimed in, And all the children? And I was like, Yeah, so I feel about succession where every single person is just competing for, like baddie of the moment. And you know, sure, I know we’re going to have a show about the fashion in succession, so I don’t want to do too much into this. But the way that they style Kendall is so interesting to me because it’s so like almost good. This is the way that he wears clothes is very similar to what you just said. Emily, where he like, will pop into a moment of consciousness where you like the jacket could be cool if the person wearing the jacket like knew how to wear the jacket and didn’t say things like I’ve gone antifragile, but is like unable to help himself. One of the shows I love that has, I think, underrated styling decisions is Ted Lasso. And one of my favorites. The way they dress Jimmy Todd’s in particular is, Who is this like pretty boy louche, you know, English Premier League football player. But his outfits are so perfectly over-the-top like they are, they are a person who started making millions of dollars in their 20s, has a great physique, knows they’re super good-looking and is just being styled with to within an inch of their life and their hairline, but wears the clothes like a person who you would expect to be wearing those clothes. But Kendall’s problem is he wears the clothes, but is evidently not the person. You would expect to be wearing those clothes, and he just can’t get over that discomfort because

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S1: because Kendall is like everything he wears, his is the costume, right? None of it reflects himself. It’s all he’s

S3: always trying, working

S1: on trying something on trying like, you know, he’s like, What kind of person do I want to be and what kind of clothes with that person?

S3: What would somebody Ellen wants to be friends with wear to this party?

S4: I didn’t understand, though, he wanted everyone to take off their coats and jackets, but he had that jacket on the whole night. Exactly.

S3: But that’s the whole point, because he should be the only person wearing a jacket.

S1: Every so often you get like a hint of there might be a little hint of real Kendall here, like with the Tree House is not something he stole from someone. It was obviously like really Kendall or the abortive attempt to like hand out canapés and human lunchboxes. It’s like, that’s a little bit of like the real Kendall, but like it. It’s always kind of weird and awkward and embarrassing, and he knows that, so he doesn’t want to do it.

S4: Maybe that’s why he says to Ramon, You’re not a real person because he doesn’t feel like a real person, either. You know, he’s real people that don’t fit and having parties with no friends at them and not in touch with his real self.

S3: Nobody having any fun. So horrifyingly awkward the whole time. The thing about Ramon that you know and Emily, this is going back to your question about like being a big picture character is I think he’s he plays. He has the most interesting physicality on the show. Like, I knew that there was this analysis of like Kendall Four Seasons one and two walked around like the weight of the world was on his shoulders and he’s gotten over that. I’m like, Yeah, or whatever. But I think with Ramon, it’s like he uses his body as a character to like, you can tell when he’s trying to win somebody up. You can tell when he’s, you know, making like, overt, particularly sarcastic comments and the way that he was just like sitting on the chair, acting super indifferent while like Shiv is having a complete meltdown. I just think he is. He makes really interesting physical choices in in a way that I don’t really see other characters do.

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S1: Although Schiff dancing

S3: was the thing that was that was definitely an interesting physical choice for sure. My first question was like, this is such as how she dances, like how much of this is acting? I don’t

S1: know. Now it’s how I dance, and it’s just it just goes completely to it. And it’s like

S3: people at clubs who have done some E

S4: and countries like, what is she on? I forget who I think he was talking to Greg

S1: in this Greg, right, who was like, I don’t think she’s on anything,

S4: anything, just anger. Really angry

S1: anger. Frustration, rage makes you dance like,

S4: well, like that. I hope something happens with Shiv where she, like, has some kind of. Breakdown or something like I hope she pushes back against the confines of of the role, she’s kind of

S3: she didn’t push back against the fascist.

S4: No. And then she

S3: gave up to ride. OK, I guess I’ll just go with the Nazi, I guess, but I won’t be in the picture. Well, it was me.

S1: Do we have any favorite lines was Emily, do you have a favorite line from this one?

S4: I liked Lucas Madsen’s line where he says

S1: I shouldn’t say anything and the look on my face is commercially sensitive.

S3: He says while he has the world’s blackest expression like, you know, shout out to the scar guards because they are a riot.

S1: Honestly, Stacy,

S3: I have to resell them on eBay and his office wants receipts because I thought the thing that that line that is Felix, you’ve made the point multiple times that like billionaires are really price sensitive, actually. And that’s, you know, kind of a thing that’s really weird is like they’re actually like super penny-pinching. And that just was like a perfect distillation of the pettiness of someone ordering something in the most capricious way imaginable, changing their mind and then making it the problem of the lowest paid person in the entire structure who probably has like a studio on a six floor walkup somewhere. And that is now filled with He-Man lunchboxes.

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S1: I think my favorite one, I’m like, I don’t think I’ve ever had a favorite line from Kano, but Comic came out with this wonderful line where he goes,

S2: and I am interested to see who comes crawling first, Merkel begging for me to save democracy, or Soros serenading me from the trees.

S1: On some level, he genuinely believed that he thinks he’s like the, you know, the person who can push the presidential candidate over the edge, and he’s going to have all of this power with all of these, like important people in the world. And he is completely delusional. And it’s amazing.

S3: Maybe, right? Where do people want elections?

S4: He’s polling close to one.

S1: He’s feeling be close to one percent of what could happen.

S4: A stranger, nearly four million Americans don’t. Did you did you guys catch that early on in the episode? I think it was Frank and Logan mentioned that they’re talking to the Pierces again about doing a deal. Did anyone catch that?

S1: Yeah, I thought I think it was it was Logan, just like just a throwaway lasting around for. I doubt I mean, who knows is possible, but. Maybe then maybe this is the reason why Naomi is the only, you know, non-family character who like. Has recurred in multiple episodes. Even Marcia has only been in like one or two. But of course, next episode we get Caroline right.

S4: That’s what you say.

S1: It’s the. I think so. I’m holding out. I mean, yeah, I’m holding out for the next episode being the wedding. The Tuscan wedding. Yeah, I mean, there’ll be fun. We will see like we will see Logan Roy dressed up in a swanky suit, like we saw him in this show, like he was wearing a three piece suit in this episode, which I don’t think he’s won anything like that,

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S3: but he was expecting him to negotiate a deal to save the company, right? So got to where appropriate, setting.

S1: Is that is that like what Logan Roy wears when he wants to impress? Lucas Madsen is a three piece suit, maybe.

S3: But I mean, isn’t. That’s kind of what makes the whole thing about Roman so interesting when he was like, You know, this is why I’m not your most useless child or whatever the phrase was, is that he seems to be the only person who speaks the same language as Madsen.

S4: Yeah, Roman connects with like antisocial tech pros and fascist Nazi types. And that is his edge.

S3: You wouldn’t be. You would not believe how many people in Silicon Valley that combination describes it.

S1: Yeah. These are not these are not disjoint sets. Indeed. So who’s Stacy? Yeah. To finish up? Who is Lucas Manson? Who’s who we serve tweeting here with this guy? Is he like? Is he? Is he like Daniel Ek? Is he

S3: really who? I was thinking that he was based on the dude behind Spotify. Because one the obvious Scandinavian connection. But to just the fact that, you know, the thing that he says over and over again is like, my tech is better than yours, like the content deals will come later was very much part of what made Spotify so successful. Like the the out platform, everybody else in terms of the user experience. And then they were like, I guess now we should add more songs and that kind of single minded commitment to the user experience, even at the expense of the artists, for example, when it comes to like streaming rights. That that is very much who I was, who I was thinking of.

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S1: So we’re going to be back with Rachel Syme next week, which is going to be very exciting because she’s the expert on all things succession behind the scenes and specifically fashion. I’m very much hoping that we’re going to get like a wedding next week in

S3: the clothes choices because

S1: of those choices. But we have that. We already have enough clothes choices like just on this episode alone to be getting on with.

S3: It’s going to be cool

S1: listening to be awesome. Stacy, thanks for coming on.

S3: A pleasure. Thanks for making me aggressively happy to catch up on succession.

S1: I only only put like, you know, thirty five hours of like work on your plate and say, go on totally by this weekend to almost all of the things.