The Sweet Thirst of Sweet Magnolias

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S1: Pot farmer Jeremy pulled out. And settled down in front of. His came out strong and I. Or more.

S2: You are a disaster.

S3: Is that why he pulled out? I have really took off myself.

S2: I mean, if you can’t think of yourself, listen, you’ve got you’ve got to be able to tickle yourself in these times. I’ll say that much. Jesus. Hi, Nicole. Hi, Pam. How are you? I am sweaty, but I’m good. I think it’s hot.


S3: Oh, I didn’t expect. Oh, do you know you’re talking to them right now? Do you want to tell me about your sweat right now? All right. I love it. Lean in. I too am sweaty.

S2: But that kind of cool. Cool. OK. Yeah. No, no I know but I’m good.

S4: I am a little tired but you know, I’m OK.

S2: Listen, at this point we are in September, ok. Yeah. The year that felt as though it would never end regardless of activities has just kept trudging on. And I just want to say in an act of defiance, so have we. So yes, it really is a case of like you’re grinding. I’m grinding 20. How dare you?


S5: So I feel like this is a triumph for us to be here, to be upright, to be in front of our bikes, to be laughing and most importantly, to be finding things to still, first of all, in a decidedly grim fucking time.


S2: Yes.

S4: And, you know, I have surprised myself with the places that I have gone when traveling through Thursday, Bill, shall we say?

S2: Oh, yes. Oh, I love that. I love that whole construction.

S6: So that’s what we’re going to talk about today. Is that something that is a little outside of our preferences but still is valid and still good? And it’s just something that, you know, our listeners, if they’re not already aware of, should definitely, you know, give a chance.


S5: Right. Right. So this week, we are talking specifically about one TV show, but also about what that TV show, it’s a sort of stand-in for. It’s a sort of it’s part of a whole genre that, like Nicole said, is not necessarily going to be our first choice. But once we get in there, it turns out there is so much to love. So we are talking about the Netflix show Suite Magnolia’s, which came out in May. Remember May. That was a time. And we’re going to talk about the very specific way that it portrays lust and desire and I guess even sexual pleasure without at any point showing any of that, because it’s such a gentle show.


S4: It is. It’s so soft and sweet. I love it.

S5: So, yeah, get get a glass of something sweet, maybe some sweet tea and settle in because we are about to go to South Carolina. Nicole, I want to ask you a question. So before watching Sweet Magnolias, had you ever even heard about the books or the author, Sheryl Woods?

S6: Oh, no, I had not read the books and I was completely unaware of them, mostly because I tend to stay away from the fade to black romances, romances where that are fairly chaste. You know, a little you know, all the action happens behind the doors of the bedroom.


S4: I you know, that’s just, you know, I like a little sauce with my romance.


S2: Right before we did a whole interview about this. Yes. Someone was like, what’s your favorite part of romance novel?

S5: I was like, Oh, I love the romance. I love the boy meets girl or whomever meets whomever. I love all of that stuff. But I’ve got to be honest, I am really into the dirt. Like I want to.

S2: I want to I want to hear I want to learn some stuff, you know what I mean? I want to look at something. I kind of be like, oh, shit, that’s the thing people do, OK? That is the thing that I am very, very almost always into.

S5: So like you, I am not somebody who I would happily read it, but I would never actively seek it out to read. So I also had never heard of Sheryl Woods. It turns out I did a little bit of like Googling before coming to talk about this. She’s been writing books since the year I was born. I you can deduce that yourself. I’m not going to tell you when I was born, but of course it was nineteen ninety six. Anyway, she has been writing these books for so long and has written entire worlds, which I think based on what I was reading online, she almost never goes into like any kind of explicit detail. Like her stock in trade is sweet and kind of like, you know, she does the occasional threat level, the occasional she does thrillers, she does like small town stuff. She does. But you never, ever there’s never any even the euphemism is very useful. She doesn’t she’s not out there talking about and then he put Turbay into slot B, there’s none of that. Right, right. So I was surprised by how much I loved this TV show because, yeah, it’s not my usual cup of tea.


S4: Right. And it’s also very there are a lot of Christian you know, there’s a lot of preaching.

S6: There’s a lot of Christian tenets involved in it, you know, whatever. And I am a Christian. I identify as a Christian. I don’t, you know, aspire. But I also don’t want to, like, be reading a romance.

S7: And the romance is them holding hands while they pray or whatever. Do you get no shade?

S4: No disrespect, because it does have a place and it is valid. And I love that it reaches the people that it reaches is just not particularly for me. And, you know, but watching this show again, I was kind of I don’t preach at me. But then the Pastor Dooen, who is obviously the church’s pastor in this town, Serenity, South Carolina, she was saying some stuff that hit me. And that’s the thing that I noticed in watching the show. I benched it over two days. Wow. Yeah. Is that really I guess I found it right when I needed to find it, which is, again, another good sermon.


S8: And I was going to tell us about the word systematical.

S6: But it’s just, you know, I’m in this place now where I have been trying to figure out, am I responding to the pandemic properly in the best way that I should, because I see all my friends and all these other people who I follow on social media. They’re responding almost in very similar ways, you know, to the pandemic. They’re baking. They’re going out in like, I don’t know, building forests in their homes, you know, all the plant life and stuff. And I just have not had that response. But I realize that watching this show, I needed something sweet, something that is just going to be like, you know, there’s a new normal ahead of us. And how you figure out your own new normal is fine. Whatever you need to do on an individual basis, it’s fine because there’s a lot of ensuite Magnolia’s. There are several people who are going through a grieving process. Some people are divorced. Some people are like figuring out, you know, a new business for themselves, things like that. People are leaving other types of relationships behind and trying to figure out how to adapt to that. And that’s definitely what we’re experiencing right now.


S4: We’re trying to figure out how to move through quarantine, through the loss of life that we’ve experienced, all this kind of stuff. And so everyone handles things in such a thoughtful way, like even if they make a mistake at first, they’re able to come back and examine what they did and correct it.

S6: In a way that’s clearly a lesson. There’s clearly a way for us to be like, oh, I should model that in my own relationship when I’m talking to my father or my sister or whatever. So that’s all part of what I really loved about the show, that it wasn’t just the romance, it was also it’s OK if you’re figuring out a new part of your life, because we all are.


S4: And just you just have to keep going. And I. I really needed that.

S5: Yeah. I mean, first of all, drag me I to have adopted several plants and I cook consistently. So first of all, how dare you. But yes, I fully understand what you’re saying about the world of I think the biggest thing about the show, which is again, like we said, based on a bunch of books with these characters, is that it kind of its biggest thing seems to be the the inevitability of adaptation, and that in order for you to grow, you will need to adapt. And what has always worked may not work in the future based on a new set of problems. And that is transmitted very, very subtly and sometimes not subtly at all. But, you know, every so often when persuasion is preaching, I’m like, oh, I see literally a lesson or what I see are cool. But generally speaking, it is done in a way to kind of show, like you said, people react to things very differently and that’s not a bad thing unless it’s a bad thing. And I think that’s a very strong reminder that many of us need, which is to respond to something in a very cookie cutter way, because it’s the way that we understand to respond. And actually it turns up. No, and in terms of first, it’s actually a very you know, since that’s the point of the show, it’s a very subtle reminder also that there is pleasure to be had. At various levels in different things, and it’s something that we, to our credit, have been talking about on the show for a while, which is we are not prescribing a the pulse of the fancy or B, how to do it. And we talk a lot about the different demographics of our audience, like people who are out there, like Nicole and I, who really love reading a bunch of smart other people who are kind of like, I don’t even want to, don’t even give it, don’t even give it a pet name. We’re not going to talk about it. Like, just know that it happens and that’s what you need to know and that’s it. And then other people who, as we said, we have lots of listeners, we have people who, you know, have never thought about the stuff before. We have people who are coming back from all sorts of horrors and trying to kind of get through. And everyone is coming to the show with whatever they have in their back pocket and they’re coming regardless. And I feel like I came to see my family is kind of like, oh, I know I’m about to get like a sweet Southern show. I mean, first of all, shout out to the cliche. It’s the set of the South put magnolias in the title, right.


S2: I was like, I mean, you got me that cheap.

S5: I mean, but there is something to be said for the fact that they do this thing where the characters are clearly having sex, like either they’ve had it before they’re currently having it or they will have it again and probably soon, because otherwise, what the fuck are we here? And I love it because there are all these allusions, like there’s a particular fact. Let me start from the beginning. So there were three main characters in Serenity in the Sweet Magnolia’s universe, and that’s Dana Sue Maddi and Helen and Dana Sue, who is played by Brooke Elliott in particular. She is post divorce like she or at least post separation. And at this point, it’s been many years since. And for Maddie, who’s played by Joanna Garcia Swisher, that’s where we open a bang in the middle of divorce from her husband, the father of her three children, the person that she has spent the bulk of her life with. And she’s going through it in a sort of cyclical way. It’s not like it’s not 12 steps to divorce. It’s very much a loop, the loop of going back and feeling feelings. Even though he did her wrong, he cheated on her and he’s the person who cheated on her with is pregnant. So, like, it’s not even one of those. Like, it was a youthful indiscretion. It’s like five. You planted a life on this earth, right.

S6: And he’s like, I’m trying to do right by her. OK, well, how about you do right by your family? Why didn’t you think about that from jump?


S2: Every time I see Chris Clyde’s face, I just want to punch him in the show because I’m like, he’s such a nice man in real life. But on this show, fuck you, Bill, or whatever the fuck your name is, I hate you so much. But and then the third character is Helen, who is played by Heather Headley, My Bay. And when I saw her, I was like, oh, that’s a black woman in the southern show. Let’s see, how are they going to treat her? Well, the show said, Hold your horses, bitch, I’ve got you. Because the first few episodes, Nicole, I feel like you feel the same way. It was like she was there to be a facilitator of help. Yes, it was very, you know.

S4: Yes. So without me, I don’t want to be too rude and say that, you know, she was still a mammy, but it was feeling it was definitely she was a problem solver, you know, first off. But we do see her become someone complex and, you know, full and she has her own desires. One of the things that I love about the show is that all three women have at least two men after them at some point that they each have like a little love triangle of various degrees of steaminess as all the men, all women are hot, which is very important. You know, Dana Sue is she’s a plus sized woman who owns a restaurant. And so there’s all this concern about is she going to be the one? Is she going to be the one left out of, you know, finding love, wanting love, all this kind of stuff. But we you know, they take a lot to get to her.


S2: They really do. I was worried. Oh, wait, you’re going to.

S5: Because, again, that feeling of just like the screech, like I was like, oh, a plus size woman who’s in charge of a kitchen. Are I like. Right. What else are you going to pile on here? And yet again, the show said, bitch, wait. Yes.

S4: And it’s it’s like, OK, so Dana Sue goes to this farmer’s market because she’s trying to make sure that her supply, her organic produce supply remains intact after some stuff. And we see hot farmer Jeremy. OK, listen.

S2: Listen to me. So say what you said. Everyone on the service, I was like, I don’t I don’t agree. I think some people are hotter than others show. Yes. Yes. But I don’t even think everyone has a base level of hotness that I’m attracted to. Jeremy, though, is just straight up. Hello. You ordered this and I did. I really did, Jeremy.

S6: Yes, because you see, you know, she’s like, well, I don’t want to leave before I taste these strawberries. And Jeremy says, well, you can taste anything here you like.

S3: Oh, oh.

S2: When that happened, I post the TV, I said, hold on. I think I burst out laughing because I was like, Say what you mean, Jeremy, what’s what’s.

S4: And even Helen now she’s in the kitchen with Dana Sue and pastry chef Eric, who is fine.

S3: So fine. So if I want.

S4: Yes. And Eric is trying to prove that he deserves the promotion to sous chef. So he gives Dana, Sue and Helen a little taste of a pot pie.

S6: Right. And so they’re you know, they’re all into the pot pie and he’s like, yeah, you like that, right? That’s the cardamom in the in the gravy, the pockets. And Helen goes, well, you know, what other talents are you hiding? And he said, Well, what else would you like to see?


S2: Oh, I love banter like that kind of good flirty banter sort of draws the line. Yes, yes, yes. Because I was being a creep, he wasn’t kind of being like, I’ll show you. You can lick the ball. He wasn’t doing any of that. Right. He just said, tell me what it is that you like. Maybe I have it in my bag of tricks.

S3: And I said, Open your bag of tricks, Eric.

S6: I want to say, yes, I love it. I just am. And, you know, the show has some teenagers, which I don’t particularly you know, I’m not into teenagers or whatever who I really hate.

S2: What stories of teenagers. Yes. I didn’t even mind them watching this series, the highest compliment.

S3: And I didn’t even mind these young adults because I just have a problem with the way TV teens are portrayed.

S6: You know, when they’re going through, they’re little like angsty emotional phases.

S2: And they said they started lots of puberty. Yeah. They start cutting out their parents and the parents just kind of like, oh, dear, no, no. I’m not saying you got a smash. Nobody up. I don’t promote that at all. I’m just saying you have to tell them, watch your mouth. And there is a whole line. There’s a whole line that TV doesn’t know how to deal realistically. Like, it either becomes they’re all on drugs and they fucking all they’re like to me, I don’t know, it’s always a weird like that’s not real life. However, as you’re about to say, it’s different on the show.

S4: Yes. Because people do the parents do check them. Watch your tone, watch your mouth. And also, as a Southerner, I love that these young people refer to their elders as. Yes, ma’am. Yes, sir. All of you know, I you don’t really get that too often on TV shows. Right? Right. And so I really appreciate that, but I love that. And I do also want to say that even though the parents checked their teens for talking to them, you know, in a disrespectful way, they also come back and they apologize to their children. They have these moments of learning. And we do see that the teens end up like breaking through that little yes. Veil and talking to their parents. And I’m like, again, this is such a wholesome show. But it really is. It’s also just good to see.


S6: So you can watch this with your teens if you’re if you are thinking about it. Yeah, because I think it will also it can help open some communications for those of you who have teens in your life, right?

S5: I think so, too. The thing that I want to also kind of point out, like Nicole already has, is the fact that, again, these women, these three women are not dealing with drugs. And I don’t mean that to be derogatory. I mean, they are not basing these relationships on well, you’ll do each woman has like a certain bar for whomever will come into their life. And the show is kind of like not only are we going to give you one option, we’re going to give each of you two, because I feel like a lot of the time the reduction of a woman’s options to the guys there is so apparent in a bunch of TV and film stuff that we consume. And in this shows the thing I really liked is, again, nobody wants swears this is very, very PG. But you are left undoubtedly with the impression that these women are both desired and desirable and they themselves desire, and that they also have options. They don’t have to stick with the things that are just like there you go, eat to just eat your vegetables. You know, there is like, what do you fancy? Do you like Eric is really in the kitchen out there, going to go, what do you want? Yes. Yes. So let’s let’s get into some of the some of the options for these women.

S4: Nicole OK, so Helen has an old childhood sweetheart.

S2: Ryan Oh yeah. I never liked them from Jump, but hey.


S4: So, you know, he was someone that they kept going in and out of each other’s lives and so there’s that I don’t want to spoil whatever happens with that. But, you know, she has where I end the childhood sweetheart, and then she’s got Eric, who, you know, has made his interest known, shall we say.

S5: I mean, at first he was a little bit mixed messaging and I was kind of like, say it with your chest. You can’t just be doing banter good as it is, but like say something like lean into it. And then, you know, of course, he like you said, he makes his intentions clear.

S4: Yeah. Yeah. And he is also we also see that he has a complex life, that he is a whole person. And it’s not just the love interest or the potential love interest, which is always nice to see that the men get developed as well. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s Helen then, Dana, who she has, as we mentioned, farmer Jeremy and then me again.

S2: I know that I’m grateful she has options, but I’m Lexy’s focus, as my people say. Shinjo, I look at Jeremy. He’s right there. Right there. And he looks like he’s a little younger, you know, get your listen. And then her ex or you know her. Oh, yes. Who is also very tall. I cannot lie. Yes. But like, clearly toxic as shit. Yes. Ronnie Wow.

S4: So he came back and they were in the kitchen. And, you know, they’re trying to talk over the reasons that he came back and he he just kind of walks up on her real close. And there is all this tension in between them in a good way in a very steamy adults’ like, yes, you did me wrong, but there’s always going to be this between us, you know, kind of where I love that shit. I don’t. Yes, you do. I don’t like love rekindled in my real life. But write fiction. Give it to me.


S8: I read again.

S4: Dana Sue is a plus sized woman. Both of these men are fine as hell. Yeah. After her. And they’re not making her wait, at least so far. A part of her love story. Yes. You know, there’s no like I’m embarrassed to be around him. I don’t want him to see me like this. Nothing like that. She is very she seems to be, at least in this first season, very confident in who she is. Exactly.

S6: Very aware of herself and what she wants on a sexual and romantic level.

S5: Yes, I love it. I you know, when they have their when they have their little Marguerita nights or whatever and they’re out drinking or whatever, again, strictly PG language. But again, it offers you like, you know, when marriage is about to go on her first post divorce date and they helping her choose what to wear and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

S2: And they are out there putting out I mean, again, I cannot stress this enough very PG, but they are leaving you in no doubt as to what they hope happens for Maddie. Yes. Like, they they’re like, we hope your ankles above your head, they all say they invest in the cleanest, most PG language ever. And I’m like, yes, talk about skill and nuance, because the show doesn’t want to back away from the fact that these are adult women who have sexual lives and sexual identities that they want to explore.

S5: Every so often they talk to Dana Sue about, you know, anybody for you or blah, blah, blah.

S2: You know, she’s again, able to express it without having to kind of go into. Listen, I love swearing. I think it enhances my sentences. That’s surprising coming from a British person. What do you mean? What do you mean? But like in this show, it has again forced me to kind of I’m not again, this is not me.


S5: I will never, ever relinquish my my right to swear. I will just say that. But there is also something that I really enjoy about having to seek euphemism to express something, but it’s still not diluting the strength of what you feel. So, Helen, for example, there is no doubt in my mind that Ryan, as trash as I find him, is giving Helen what she needs. She comes back after seeing Ryan and there is a smile and have a Hadley’s beautiful. Yes. So when she smiles, you just kind of like, tell me the secret.

S2: What have you got going on? I said, don’t worry about me. Don’t worry about a sweetheart. Like she’s very much satisfied with Ryan. With who? She’s like, I don’t worry about me.

S5: I think I had been subconsciously quite worried, especially for Dana Sue as a plus sized woman. I was, oh, how are they going to do her dirty this time? Same with Helen. I was like a black woman. She’s going to be because, you know, it opens up and she is Maddy’s divorce lawyer rang and I was like, oh, shit, she’s going to be if she’s going to be a helper, like what’s going to happen? And they said, just you wait and then to have them. Discuss these things and you know, Nicole, I noticed you kind of pointing out even past a Jew being a black woman in trousers in the church in the south, doing what she does. And, you know, the diversity of the costs therein is actually only magnified when you look at the three women, because the show is full, full of all sorts of people.


S4: Yes. So the diversity of the show really stood out to me. I don’t know if it’s the same in the books. And I’m going to be honest, I’m not going to read the books. I mean, I’m just I’m not going to read the books. But all the black women that I’ve seen on the show with speaking parts who are recurring are dark skinned, have short hair in a variety of styles. It’s a small thing, but it’s important.

S2: Yes, absolutely. Like even the bitch on the show, one of the bitches on the show is a dark skinned black woman with short hair. And I was like, come on, give us the give me a black girl, love. It’s like she’s out there like a local busybody. She always has a sharp word. She cuts her eyes. And I’m like, yes, complexity. Some of us are bitches. Yes. Yes.

S4: You know, I’ve seen a little person in the background of the show. I’ve seen someone who has a prosthetic arm who had speaking lines on the show. The it’s just a really those things just really stand out, particularly when you compare them to contemporary versions of New York City in TV shows where it is just white girls. And that’s it right now.

S5: And that could be true of the neighborhood. But if we’re going to think about when we talk about stories that we want to see, when we talk about fuller, more nuanced, more interesting stories, what does that look like? And this sweet, unassuming little show on Netflix is presenting it not in all ways, but in some of the ways that really matter is kind of like this is what TV could look like as a starting point. This is not like the best thing I’ve ever seen in that regard, but it is so, as Nicole said, so much further along than so many of the shows that are set in allegedly progressive bastions in the country and elsewhere. And I think that’s like another small thing that helps the the sweetness of the show go down a little bit easier, because at the same time that I’m lamenting, not seeing, you know, HBO level shenanigans, I’m kind of like, yeah, but look at all the other ways. It’s absolutely nailing this. And yes, that’s not quite a straight line with us, as we are discussing on Thursday. Yeah, but I tell you what, it puts me in the mood to be more open. If I see the efforts, I’m all the more invested.


S4: Yes, so Maddy, she is getting divorced from Bill. Yeah, someone that she has been with for 20 years. So presumably since their teenage years, high school sweetheart kind of thing, they’ve got three children together. She becomes interested despite herself and Coach Calhoun, who is the baseball coach of her eldest son. So there’s that thing and he is now he’s not necessarily my cup of tea, but he gives me a Superman as an Christopher Reeve.

S2: I know. Oh, my God, Nicole. Yes, he’s exactly. It’s in the chest. Yeah, very. Yeah. There should be an S on his chest.

S4: Yes. He’s very broad. He’s also very tall. And Joanna Garcia Swisher is very short, like you can see that she has on all these stacked heels all the time.

S8: And she loves a wedding. Yes.

S4: All these wedges to make her taller. And she’s still like the shortest of thing on set. But I love seeing that. And I will say, though, my only criticism of of the show is that Maddie, as the thin white woman, is the one who has like this marriage that was 20 years. She doesn’t know about, you know, dating someone outside of that. And then Dana, Sue and Helen have been positioned as the ones who are a bit more free spirited, shall we say, when it comes to sex and dating and stuff like that. And so I’m just like, OK, the black woman and the fat girl are the ones who have to be the ones out there tuning it up all the time.

S2: But, you know, as much as you can tune it up and serenity.

S3: But OK, can I just say there are some phrases that will never sound right in my accent. I cannot say putting it up, but you absolutely can. And you are so right. I also have the same thing.


S2: I was like, oh, this is the model of stable, you know, nuptials. This is the person who has had like a one woman, one man, you know, being felt very kind of like I see what we’re reinforcing here, like you said. Yeah.

S4: Because even Dana Sue and Helen left Serenity at some point. You know, they have traveled a little bit before coming back. But Madi is the good girl who stayed, right? Yes.

S5: But then on top of that, the wages of it, kind of like she was a good little small town girl who stayed and her husband still cheated on her. See, just kind of like guys, we can do away with this as the beginning point. We don’t have to we don’t have to keep doing this. So I hear you, Nicole. I also have a similar gripe.

S6: Yes. But otherwise, when it comes to first again, we just want to point out you don’t have to like everything that we like and we don’t always like everything that you like. Oh.

S2: Oh, God, yes, we really do. I there are so many e-mails that Nicole and I just kind of like, huh. Yeah. Yeah. Do you. Yeah.

S4: And I think the thing that kind of helped let me be open to the idea of watching Sweet Magnolias is this book that I read earlier this year called If I Never Met You.

S6: Bye Bye. McFarlane, who was a part of our romance novelist and I like a couple of episodes ago, I think maybe.

S4: Yeah, because that is a closed door romance and it was so good. I loved it. And yes, I was disappointed that I didn’t get more steaminess. But in the end I was like, you know what? I actually you know, I don’t mind. I’m OK with this because the buildup of the story, the world building was so good. Yes.


S5: And that is that is Varis strongest talent, I think is that, like she has said, that she will not be writing anything explicit going forward. She has never done in the past. And a part of me is always disappointed by that because I’m like, damn it, I know if you turn your hand to this, you’d be amazing. But she honestly says she doesn’t think she’d be very good at it, which, you know, you’re entitled to believe what you believe. But I also have my opinions and I think you would kill it. But like even her very first book you had me at hello, it literally has a scene in a bed with two people. And somehow she transmits the pure tension and like that, the heightened desire, the feelings in that scene and nobody’s even you don’t know is it’s a skill. It’s a skill I feel like so many people resort to small as a sort of ego filler. Yeah. And Varis, like, you don’t ever need that. And you will still get all the emotional payoff. You will get the feeling of an exchange occurring. You will get this feeling of people opening up no pun intended, like you’re going to get like a bunch of emotions and you don’t have to even know the color of somebody’s nipple.

S2: And I’m always kind of like, wonderful. You know what I mean, I find it such a powerful thing, so here’s the thing I love. She is a sweetheart. Her books are great. What?

S5: The first book of hers, you know, her debut was you had me at. Hello. That’s that’s the that’s the one that I love the best. But everything else is solid gold because again, which is the thing I think Sweet Magnolia’s gets is that once you know your characters and you have built a world that accommodates their every quirk, their every fiber of being, you don’t necessarily need to know. Is it nice? Is that what some viewers would like? Yes. You don’t need to because you built such a strong structure.


S4: Right. And this is not to say that there is only handholding or something. And Sweet Magnolia is. No, there’s kissing.

S2: We do get to see Coach Cow shirtless a couple of times before he was be able to wet his shirts. And I was like, yes, I love this.

S6: You know, we have talked about romance tropes before, but the the scene of, you know, oh, no, my sink is messed up. Can you help me? And then they end up, you know, the thing sprays everywhere and both of them get wet. And, you know, they have this moment of like, oh, we’re standing here wet together.

S2: I love it. Put it on my place. I will gobble it. Just give it to the thing that I love about that also is like it’s such an unsubtle metaphor. The sink is sprayed everywhere, guys.

S8: Come on, come on. You might as well put a tray through a tunnel. That’s like, come on.

S4: I love it. I love it. So we get those kinds of moments and sweet magnolias and it’s still, you know, that sweet and steamy that I have talked about wanting more because it is possible to be lefty, but also sweet. And we get that and sweet magnolias, even if we don’t see it all the thrusting, we still see what a sentence our producer share.

S3: She just took a back seat.

S5: She scratched that magazine to the sky as if to say, Oh, Lord, help me save save Cher, say, oh, but yes, I fully agree with you because again, like you said, we have those scenes that seem as though they are, I guess, exploring different ways of, you know, how to talk about whatever. I do think in the same way that we’ve noted many a time on the show. Our listeners are also expressing beyond the desire that we talk about and examine on the show. So many people, especially people who are writing troubles for the first time or who have picked up their pens again after years away, is this idea of this is something I’m doing for me and this is giving me joy and this is giving me freedom and I feel safe and able to do it because you guys are talking about it and it feels good to me. And I think, as Nicole often points out, that there is a certain kind of dismissal of woman’s pleasure or anything that gives them joy as silly or not very important or whatever. And this show of all the shows in the world, I did not expect to get this kind of affirmation from this basic idea that, yes, your friends hold you up and they keep you and they hold you, et cetera, et cetera. But also there is time to dwell on the simple act of Dana Sue driving a vintage truck that makes her feel good. And we see the pleasure plain as day on her face. And it’s nothing to do with the man beside. I mean, well, it’s five percent to do with the man beside her, but it’s about her taking pleasure, driving a vintage vehicle that she loves, that gives her pleasure. That kind of triggers a memory with her father, a sweet, happy memory, something that is inside of her that is helped along by this guy.


S6: So, yeah, he’s present for, like, some of it, but it’s for her and, you know, the epiphanies that she has.

S2: Oh, my God. So good. So rewarding. Yes.

S6: Are not from anybody preaching at her or scolding her or anything like that.

S4: It’s just she really went on an internal journey and she came to a conclusion. And again, just her storyline was so well done. I just feel like all the women were treated with care in this show.

S5: And it turns out that is the first of all along that I needed the show.

S2: Do you like what I did? Yes. Yes, you are. The real first is the lessons we learned along the way.

S9: Nicole OK, so Nicole, this has been quite a jam packed episode of all sorts of major and minor characters. And in a such a big cast, there is ample opportunity to go in any direction, any kind of trope that you like. You can probably find a first object. To match, so you started off the show with a fantastic redacted with former Jeremy, but there are like at least six other men in this show, but you could fix your first eion.

S4: Yes. Yes. It’s probably no surprise that I chose Eric, the hot pastry chef.

S2: I love it. I love it. OK, listen, he had me a pastry, but everything else, too. He’s actually, I think objectively the hottest and most obvious first object for us both. Yes. In a way like there were close seconds, but he is like he was so obviously like my eyes began to shine when he was on screen. I was like, that’s it. That’s on. So I am delighted that this is who you’ve chosen this week. I’m very excited to listen to your travel about hot pastry chef Eric. All right.


S10: I watched Eric unpack all the goodies he’d brought over there were baked goods, of course, as soon as he found out the love I have for my Aunt Ruth chocolate cake, he spent over two months perfecting a recipe until he got to almost just like hers. He knew I’d been having a really hard week. So he’d brought over the batter for that chocolate pound cake because he also learned I loved it best when it was still warm from the oven because zapping it into the microwave or even the toaster oven is not the same. He arranged all the food on the counter in an order that made sense to him. There seemed to be so much of it. I looked down at my belly, my thighs, the hanging from my arms. I shouldn’t say it. I know I shouldn’t say you’re going to make me even fatter than I already am. I said it. Eric slowly emptied the last of his bags and washed his hands. Then he sat next to me and one of the stools at the bar that separates the kitchen from the living room. I don’t really know how to talk about this with you yet, so you’ll have to help me figure out the best way to have this kind of conversation. But I don’t like nobody beating up on my woman, not me, not no strangers on the street and definitely not herself. I open my mouth to tell him I wasn’t being mean to myself, but he grabbed my hand and held it to let me know he wasn’t finished. Whatever you look like right now is how I love you. If you need me to change up what I cook for you, I can do that. I love the look in your eyes when you eat something I made while thinking of you. If I’m doing too much, we can find some real pleasurable ways of working it all off. But I love you in the body you have now with the mind you have now, with the soul you have now. I don’t need none of it to change. But if you need something to change, tell me. Tell me. And it’s done. He pulled my hand until we were facing each other and I could see the truth of his words and the anguish at not knowing if he was saying the right thing. You always tell me what I need to hear, I said, touching my forehead to his. He dropped a quick kiss to mine before leaning back into our nuzzle. I tell you what’s true, and with my lips still feeling the warmth of his words, we kiss to seal the promise of us together.


S3: Oh my God, I know. I am doing Shalah Lamaze breathing right now. I am wow bitch who that is the most loving bitch I have thrown your way this whole season. Just slow. I’m just being.

S5: Nicole, there are so many reasons why I am honored and delighted to be your friend, and a lot of them have nothing to do with your abilities or your skills.

S2: It’s just who you are. Right. But every so often. Yeah, every so often I’m dancing with the words just how much I love this. You just pull something out and I’m just kind of like Rodust Talan. And you are a talented motherfucker and I’m proud of you.

S3: Oh my God. I’m actually emotional with that story. That was fucking lovely.

S6: I feel like I’m going to cry for you say that.

S8: Oh, no, Nicole, don’t cry.

S6: You’re on the air with you know, I hate to cry. Oh, I know. I know.

S3: Oh, no, Nicole, I didn’t mean for you to cry. Jesus Christ. Okay, you know what? That violence, Nicole is going to dab her eyes and come back harder once.

S2: You know what? I don’t even care about the travels this week. This is the highlight of my month, maybe even my year. I maybe could cry from pure emotion that never fucking happened.

S6: It really doesn’t. I, I don’t try to be hard, but I’m just like, you know, I look down, I yeah, I get it like that. I know you’re can coated, but the shell, you know, is trying to go away.

S3: But Outside-in every so often I see the gooey and I am delighted that I. Wow. Nicole, I can’t believe you are still wiping your eyes. This is amazing to me what this is. I am.


S2: So that’s the quality of this fucking Grabovo. Excuse me. That was vulnerable. That was lovely. That was warm. That was wow. I don’t want to even read my fucking trouble now to be honest, I will send it to the heavens. I’m not even here anymore. My body is here. I’m not I’m not physically present, you know what I mean? Wow. I have to go get some wine. Wow. What a travel. What a piece of work. Oh, OK, Ben.

S6: Yes. And now that I’ve had my emotional breakdown. Sure. Who do you have on the menu for us in your travel today, Nicole?

S5: Like you, I went the only road I could go. I surveyed the talent on display and I was like, it’s Eric for me because he is the guy, you know, this is longer than I normally do. And I apologize. But also, as we said before, we get to go long wait.

S2: You said to your travels that you don’t get to go sort of democracy. It’s the first ocracy. OK, this is Eric. I’m ready.

S11: OK, let’s go. I heard Eric shut the door behind the delivery guy and begin his return to the sofa where we’ve been lazily draped for most of the day. I was stretching, wiggling my toes as he came back into view, his warm, brown eyes twinkling. Curiously, he pulled off the mask he’d just put on to answer the door. And I made my face as neutral as I could manage. What’s that? I asked. Zero idea, he said, as he dropped the package onto his side of the sofa and headed for the kitchen for a pair of scissors. The postmark, says Japan. His voice drifted back to me. Oh, is it for me? I was leaning into my role as innocent observer here, returned to the room, eyeing me with slightly narrowed eyes. Why would it be? Did you order anything from Japan? I don’t know what I bought this quarantine, Eric. I quit, I just order an Instagram in a fugue state and surprised myself when it gets here. He laughed like I’d wanted him to. No, no, this is addressed to me, he said. But I know I didn’t order anything. So he sat down again, returned my feet to his lap where they’d been earlier. What is this? Open it, I said, suddenly, impatient to see his response. See for yourself. He considered me for a moment longer and carefully pulled the open scissors down the Sellotape seal. He paused again, still in his hands for a moment. You know you don’t have to get me anything, he said quietly. I sat up, covered his hands with mine until he looked back at me. I know sometimes I like to the. I could tell the moment he realized what was in the box, the knife said he’d been watching and waiting to go on sale for at least the last six months. He carefully lifted the box out of the packaging and the breath whistled out of him on a sigh of pure pleasure. He bit his full lower lip, ran his thumbs over the box, live in a stainless steel trance. My heart doubled in size. You like them? I did a lot of research and bought direct from the factory. I rushed out. I’ve been on Japanese knife forums and shit talking with some very condescending men with more than a little whiff of cultural appropriation in their usernames. I laughed a little here as the silence wore on. But these are the ones, right, Eric, who snap to when I said his name turned to look at me. They’re amazing. I love them. I scooted up the sofa, held his face in my hands. I know it’s been hard with the restaurant and everything, his eyes clouded over, but still you do so much for me. Every single day you cook, you fix, you drive. You read my plays and let me rant. You take care of me and this house and then you cook some more. All I ever do is the washing up. He smiled. And so if I can get you some fancy finely weighted Japanese still to slightly redress the balance, guess what? I move my hands up over his beard, a quarantine development I was not mad at and into his hair, the quills soft against my palms, he leaned into the touch like a cat and kissed the inside of one wrist. This is perfect, he said, relaxing back into the sofa. Eyes closed, bringing me with him. Your perfect.


S12: He kissed the top of my head, talked me into himself, and I let him Manuelita Eric in real life, like.

S3: I mean, I don’t know if I can be clearer to the fucking universe.

S2: Oh, man. So, you know, I love a wrist kiss, just my favorite. It’s so tender. It’s so tender, soft as part of you. I mean, come on. The thing is, I just realized between our two dribbles, we are doing a very specific cosmic ordering right now.

S8: Yes, I did know who’s listening.

S2: You know how those tweets that go, I don’t know. I don’t know who needs to hear this, but yes, I definitely know who needs to hear this real life. Eric, appli within. Please, I’m tired. Listen, we are struggling. You got me breaking down on the mike. I feel like that’s going to be our tagline. Emotional vulnerability this week. Like it really is where we’re at right now. It’s been so many months of lockdown and all sorts of kind of just horrors, big and small, global and incredibly local. I think we needed this. So shout out to Sweet Magnolia’s for helping us access some real emotions this week. Like, you know, we’re emotional every week, to be fair. But I think there’s something about the timing of this that also feels like, oh, we needed this.

S6: Yeah. You know, sweet Magnolia’s in my tweet thread, I said that I really needed to watch this now. Ah, when, you know, when it was that idea and instead of like when it first came out because it did help me kind of just like remember there are sweet kind people, even if they are fictional, but they’re all fictional. But I needed that. And you know, I think another reason that we are especially soft right now is because of the recent death of Chadwick Boseman.


S10: And, you know, it took us all by surprise. And, you know, we just saw someone who had so much more to do and that’s it. And he was so young. Hee hee hee.

S2: I don’t even know how to say it. Like, I don’t want to talk about him. Like, yeah, I know. I know. It’s jarring.

S6: It’s jarring to say he was, you know, but he was the same age as I am. I say I see a lot of parallels between us, which I know seems odd because he was old, but he you know, he was a Southern man who went to an HBC you whose career was just starting, you know, kind of I don’t want to say late in life because he had been acting for a very long time. But again, as is usually common with black actors, you know, they don’t seem to take off until maybe they’re late. They’re mid to late thirties when their white counterparts are getting Oscars at the age of twenty one or something. But anyway, so I see a lot of similarities between us. And so it really bothered me that, you know, when I first opened up Twitter and I saw I went to the trending topics and I saw his name and then I clicked on it and I was like, no, this doesn’t make sense. These words together don’t make sense. What’s happening? This is a joke, you know? And then I kept reading and kept reading and it just really fucked me up. I mean, yeah.

S9: I mean, listen, it’s been a weird I surprised myself by bursting into tears and they weren’t like quick emotional like responses. They were like suddenly I was like, oh, there’s a well of sadness here. I hadn’t expected to feel that much. And like you said, it was unexpected. He he was so young. They were like all these things that just kind of added to it. And I was an utterly vulnerable state as soon as I held the news and carrying on. And I think that’s the kind of thing that also kind of helps you, I suppose, realizing your purpose. Um, you know, you get to a place where you just kind of like, what do I want to do? What do I want to do? And I saw a really great, you know, rude but correct tweet with someone just said, just do whatever the fuck you want to do. Like nothing is promised. There is no cut off point for whatever. So just fucking do it. Like if you can muster up your strength and your courage and do it. And if it works out fine and if it doesn’t try again, like it’s really that simple and it seems really kind of reductive to kind of boil it down to that. But I feel as though for someone who was carrying this thing and was going about his life as best he could, it’s such a stunning blueprint of just the fact that you can, even in all sorts of circumstances, there is still an element of. I guess just do it. That’s that’s the thing for me.


S6: Just do it, just do it. And yes, you can focus on what’s going to bring you pleasure in that moment. But I think the other lesson that we need to pull from that is how he took that precious time that he wasn’t sure he wasn’t sure how much time he may have had left, but he took that time to do what he wanted to do, but to also just spread love and kindness and generosity to other people. And it wasn’t just a selfish pursuit of, oh, no, I got to get all these roles. It was, how can I use the time that I have to benefit other people in some small way? And so this is not to say that all of us are supposed to go out of form charities and all this kind of stuff. No, no, no, no, no. Just do what you are able, but know that you’re able to do something and just do it.

S9: That’s exactly that’s exactly it. And I just wanted to kind of as a final note, just bring on the thing you said about kindness. And I think it’s been remarkable to see people come forth and just mentioned time and again how kind he was. And if we take nothing else, I think everybody online and off can stand to be a little kinder, not nicer, kinder. And I it has given me a very specific pleasure to read all these people talking about Chadwick and just say, man, he was so kind. And I could only hope that people will say the same about me when I leave, you know?

S10: Yeah, same.

S6: I just want people to be like, she was good to me, you know, she was she was good to me and to others. And, you know, I am not I know that I am not a nice person, but I do try my best to be kind of, you know, the world doesn’t make it easy to be nice, but you could be kind.


S9: And and I’m just glad that we I’m glad that we got to benefit from his obvious, fantastic and multifaceted talents. So rest in peace. Chadwick Boseman, lots of love to his family and the rest of us fans as well. Indeed.

S13: First aid kit is a slight production produced by Cher, Vincent and Nicole Perkins and them on me. Our music is by Tanya Morgan.

S14: You can follow the show on Twitter at First Aid Kit. And we are on Tumblr at First Aid Kit podcast, Tumblr dot com. You can find all the episodes that we’ve done. You might even ask a question of if you like to listen and live tweet.

S13: There is a hashtag, it’s tech part AKP or D, and you can join us every Thursday or any other time you see fit. If you prefer, you can write us an email and send it to Thursday at Slate dot com.

S14: If you want to use our personal service, all you have to do is send us a short and we mean short no longer than a minute. Note by email. First aid kit at Slate dot com.

S13: You can find all of our episodes and links to listen at Slate dot com slash podcast if you find yourself wishing you could get even more Thursday content every week. Well, now you can. All you have to do is become a slate plus member slate plus a Slate membership program for just thirty five dollars for the first year. You’ll get a little extra from this show and all other shows, plus absolutely no ads. Visit Slate Dotcom slash first aid plus to sign up. All right.

S14: Stay thirsty. We’ll be back next week. Take care of yourselves. Bye bye.


S13: Welcome. Hello.

S2: Hey, that’s my only contribution as we always do this like after dark intro, I don’t know why we try to get off through with it, because sometimes that’s what the occasion calls for. Not every day, you know, trainers and tracksuit bottoms. Some days, you know. Yeah, a little dress and some heels.

S6: Right. Lingerie.

S8: All right. All right.

S2: OK, Nicole, I’m very excited about our plus segment today. Do you know why? No. Tell me why.

S9: And I will, because we have a guest in the studio, the virtual studio with us and listeners, longtime listeners will know who this guest is because prior to even this day, she used to be our producer on Thursday. And I am, of course, talking about host to do Tazz.

S2: What do listeners.

S8: OK, sultry voice I don’t know.

S2: All right, into the mike and was him. I’ve taking some honey tablets. OK, I got to let the streets. No, I mean, the streets remain nowhere. So shout out to you.

S6: Our listeners may also remember a from she joined us on an episode where she talked about Drake who ask that you talk about Lena Waithe.

S2: Yes. Drake and Lena. Way to problem free. I mean, I’ve never heard of anything that’s problematic in any way to those two. So shout out to you. Thanks, T.J..

S6: Well, we’ve got come back today for our segment. Explain yourself in which our guest will try to get us on board with them with a crush that maybe we’re not feeling or we’re not fully informed about or something like that. So take, you know, because we have worked with Teekay before. We trust her. We know that she is going to bring us somebody that’s really interesting to talk about. So we have no idea who Teekay is going to talk to us about today. Oh, yes.


S8: Yeah, I’m a little I’m a little nervous, but also, like in you know, I trust I trust with T.K. has brought to the table.

S2: That’s the key thing. Like, I too. I’m kind of like a series of question marks in my brain. But at the same time, my heart isn’t racing. I am at ease. I’m OK. Wherever we go, I’m going to be ready to go because T.K. is holding my hand through all of it.

S15: I’m going to take you guys through this. I have a double thirst for you. I’m here for it. You know what? Because I got to do it for the bisexuals, so I got to give it to you from both sides.

S8: Hey, that’s what she said. I believe that is that’s what she said to. You know what? You know, I want to turn the car around, I’m going to turn this car around. You’re doing way too much.

S2: Oh, kicking your explain yourself off with.

S15: Yeah, I’m going to start with and I think I’ll call him an unconventional first. Oh, I’m intrigued. Sampa the artist named Sandfire.

S2: Oh. From the U.K.. Come on. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

S15: I learned about him in like 2011 because he had a song on Subjects album.

S16: It’s complicated when you gravitate towards so on the other hand, and you know, you can’t control, but your mind goes. So let’s have a song, the movie called Snow.

S15: And I just like I like instrumentals and I like beats. But there were a few a few song songs on there. And I was just like, who is this majestic person?


S7: And then I was I Googled and I was like, Oh, it’s a man. And he’s black and he’s big chill. And it’s just. And I wasn’t even ready because, you know, like, he he is he has a very particular look.

S15: It’s so it’s almost as if he could be any other guy that you know, but then, you know, with with the singing, you know, I know that a lot of girls get caught up by song, but his his voice is so majestic. I actually, like I really called him a songbird, like in my head. I’m like, who is this songbird? I live around him. And so Sandfire is my first, you know, unconventional thirst of today’s segment.

S2: OK, so first of all, I want to acknowledge the instant poetry that poured forth just then. Who was the song? But and I found him. OK, Maya Angelou. OK, you know why the caged bird sings. Tell us more.

S8: Yeah. In London film.

S9: So I know his voice is incredible. I find it to be like it’s nobody else. If I hear his voice, I’m like, oh, that sounds like he doesn’t sound like anybody else. Nobody else sounds like him. But I have to say, taking the step into fancy him is not one that I have taken. Can you explain what led you down that path?

S15: Yeah, who I think really, for me, I really, really have been touched by his his voice, like over time. I just thought that he would just be on songs with people I liked. He’s a song with Drake. He did a cover for of Solange’s All the Hair song. I’m sorry. They’re all their songs with so large Don’t Touch My Hair. He did that, but he also did some songs with Salon. So I was like, right, this guy is more than, you know, the guy that I knew in 2011. And then he came out with his own song. And I was just so impressed by the whole thing because it took so long for him to come out with his own album. So I just had been getting drips, drip, drip, drip, drip. And then he hit us with the whole joint is called Process, the whole album. And I just I really like it and it’s very vulnerable and I like a vulnerable man.


S2: Hell, come on. That’s actually all that that is exactly together. I bought that album as well.

S9: It came out twenty seventeen and I remember especially because it went on to win the Mercury Prize in the UK and the Mercury Prize is one of those that has often I guess, dominated by indie kind of British and Irish sounds very, very white. So let’s just be you know, for the most part, it’s the nominees and the winners have tended to go a very specific way. And then when he won it, I remember kind of sitting up and kind of going, told you, told you all because you kind of like sound for who’s that? And I was like, guys, if you’ve been paying attention, you will know. And when I listen to that record, I find myself silently weeping sometimes because it’s so it’s so vulnerable. It’s so deep.

S6: No one knows me like the piano, that song. Oh, my gosh.

S17: No one knows me but the piano in my mother’s home. You show me something.

S6: Oh, my gosh, yes, that is definitely one of the songs that I put on and I’m like, okay, I need to be quiet with my emotions and just, like, sit with this. So his voice really is I don’t want to say delicate. It is. I don’t know. I don’t know whether I’m looking for it right now, but it’s just something about it that just calls for quiet time, introspection, just something even if it’s not anything necessarily heavy that you want to think about. But still, it’s just like this makes me want to be calm and sit and listen to this music. You know, sometimes you put up music so you can clean up the kitchen, clean the house while you’re cooking, doing something else. But I found that with his music, I just have to sit and listen to it. I can’t do anything else.


S15: Yeah, I think even when he turns, like turns up, so to speak, like in the song Blood on Me, because it’s it’s like it’s such an outpouring, you know that. And then to come back to the vulnerability, I think the song Plastic one thousand one hundred degrees. That’s and I think right now, you know, we’re dealing with a lot. And if you need to sit with some stuff, that’s a song to sit with. And then just on his face, he’s got these lips. Hello.

S8: You know, I’ve I’ve met gentleman with those lips, so. Oh, my God, that’s OK. Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. I get out the lips. Yes, yes.

S2: OK, you know, I can I can work with you on the mouth if the mustache that I have a little bit of a problem with the little Steve Harvey. Listen that’ll whispers the mustache going and I’m like why wistful when you can shout lean into it sir. You know.

S3: You know.

S9: You really it’s not a great I have to say, I like when I’m like, oh my God, the talent is like coming off him in waves. I can see it. I’m into again shadows of his lips. God bless the motherland. It’s really given him some abundant gifts.

S2: But what is up with that mustache? It makes me irrationally angry. I’m just like, why? Why would you do that to your base of love? You love the music, love your talent, shave it off or grow it into a left. Just I think he’s trying to do like a Antine cool thing. You know how some people just one other way to work and it’s very it’s not cool at all. And I am quietly offended in my house.


S15: Who I know. I know. I know. I really that I knew it was going to be hard for me to bring the mustache to ya. It is hard for me to receive it as well. So I generally listen to the music and I do enjoy the free form locks. It feels like I feel like it takes a lot of man to really just lean into just waking up for like five years on the same head here. So, yeah, that.

S2: Well you would know because you have a beautiful head of looks yourself. Yes, they are very Buzard.

S15: I can imagine, I can imagine is just out here letting it go, you know, and even that with the whole anti cool locks, free form locks, there’s, there’s also like I mean we could go into like a whole hair thing, but there’s there’s something in it for those folks that, like, decide to not do much with it.

S7: Right. And then is he really not doing anything with it because it has a shape. There are twenty year. There’s so right. I wonder sometimes. Right. So I think that’s also that’s a commentary. I don’t know what it is. He’ll have to answer that himself. Right.

S6: Because sometimes it’s his hair standing up like he’s got a kind of more upright and sometimes he’s smooshed it down. You can tell that he has that the covering it. I like I kind of like his anti cool thing is you’re calling it because I feel like that’s his way of saying focus on the music, not me. Like, yeah, his body is also just a very comfortable average body. Like, he’s just like, I’m here. This is what I look like. And you’re just going to have to deal with it, which should not be as radical as it is. But, oh, in this world that we and it is a bit radical.


S9: Yeah. And it does make me like it more. I will say that like there’s something about someone who is saying all these things and it doesn’t necessarily matter that they’re kind of all the way like, you know, as you’ve pointed out, sometimes the head does look a little styled somewhere, but some other time it was kind of like, I like that you live somewhere in the shadowy line between here’s what I’m going to give you in harm’s way. You’re going to get. Yeah, and I like that as a that’s not a bad beginning point for fancying someone.

S15: You know, I’m not mad at it at all. I forgot what I was going to say because that was right.

S2: Sorry to interrupt you. That’s the nicest way of saying so, bitch. You interrupt and I apologize. Sorry about. No, I love you. Say nice things about my guy. I’m good.

S3: I love it. Yes.

S15: Yes. So that’s what I got for Sandra. Just great voice. Vulnerable vulnerability just oozes from him. He’s got a size that I like, lips that I like, hair that I admire. Oh. And I think I could nestle into that whole situation.

S2: I don’t know why. I like it. I like it. Yeah, that’s okay. I have missed hearing you say things like I could nestle into that whole situation because nobody else formulates a sentence quite like that. And I appreciate you. I just want to put that on the record.

S9: Let the record show that I appreciate your way with words.

S6: Thank you very much. But you do have a second person for us to think about today. And it seems to be very timely. And again, this is not planned. We did not know that it was going to be.


S2: I didn’t we didn’t know. We didn’t actually do so.

S15: This next Thursday is Niecy Nash.

S2: They are a lady of tasty taste.

S15: I mean, you know, I go like the bar is high. That’s why I’m alone.

S8: Oh, wow. Welcome to my out. As we all laugh with too much truth to love, we can relate all in it.

S2: What I loved is if you looked at the little window, all of us had our heads thrown back and then we all came back. Serious face, like, yeah.

S8: Oh.

S3: Oh, wow. Talk about vulnerability and catharsis. Here we go.

S6: OK, tell us more about Niecy Nash.

S7: Yes, Niecy Nash. I’ve been following her since Reno 911. One classic classic series. I got to tell you, she’s she’s amazing. And I and I was like, who is? I was like, first of all, I hate shows about cops, even if they’re jokes. Right. Right. But this I was like, this black lady is doing it. She’s she has attitude.

S15: I mean, and I know that’s a trope, but the whole show was a trope on top of the rope. So to me it was, it was, you know, OK. And then I followed her career and she keeps breaking those tropes. Right. She’s on that show getting on, which was a remake of a getting on in the U.K. And HBO tends to do a good job with things. And she was so good as the nurse or the Kenay. I thought she was like my mom or like my auntie.

S7: You know, I was like, oh, my God, Niecy, you are giving me just so much versatility. She’s like Chaka Khan. She’s every woman child. I just started bingeing clause because, you know, and we’ve got time and she’s a bosworth’s there.


S15: You know, it’s she got looks. She has facets. She’s on Mrs. America as Flo Kennedy, civil rights activist lawyer. And it’s not a lot of role. Well, for the episodes that I’ve seen so far. But every time she comes on screen is like a breath of fresh air. She’s either about to like school, someone, check someone or just quietly let you know which she does as the therapist in all the show that Mindy Kaling does with Never have I ever, never have I ever. She plays the young lady’s therapist.

S7: And I didn’t expect it. And she also was a therapist that goes out to party. And where is the lesson? My therapist don’t like that.

S2: Quick question that would you want your therapist to look like that or would that just be? Could not be my therapy.

S6: Niecy Nash has the range and you have hit on some of her roles that show her rage. She was also in Selma. I believe she women when they see us so she can do comedy, she can do drama, she can do the heartfelt, she can do the mix of comedy drama. That is cause she is an incredible actress. She definitely deserves more professional accolades than what she has already. She also I need to know her shapewear line like way. Yes.

S7: OK. Oh, it’s like mermaid. She get it from Mermaids R US or something like. Come on ladies, let see.

S2: Missy makes me like I any given day. I’m like, you know what the body I have the body I was given and I’m cool with it for the most part and I understand the diversity and blah blah blah. People look the way they look, it’s whatever. When I see Niecy Nash a oppong goes through me where I’m kind of like, well, why don’t I have that? Like, I love everything I have, blah, blah, blah. But also God Hailo, ask God what’s going on. Like what was I feel like that Khateeb give what was the reason why don’t I have any of this stuff. Because Niecy Nash, his body is just one of those things where I just think to myself, wow, it’s a blessed day. There is so much goodness in the world. The Lord is looking out for me and making people that look like Niecy, and she wears it so lightly, like she doesn’t walk around like Jessica Rabbit. Her body is just it’s effortless. It’s effortless, and that’s very hard. I see that every scene, you know what?


S15: It’s a body on a journey to like. Oh, over time. Yes. As like with the roles and like now like this is it’s a whole evolution right there, like and that gives me hope for whatever that I’m trying to embark on in the future. And if I don’t know if I could just throw this on the Instagram when the show drops. But her fiftieth birthday photos on Instagram where she’s wearing the top hat, y’all.

S7: Yes. Firstly, I have a thing for top hats. Secondly, I have a thing for Niecy Nash.

S15: So is a combination I mean, no, like I really do like top hats a lot, but yeah.

S2: Yeah, there is a photo of our little group of audio professionals that we took, and I believe one of the props available was a top hat. And you jumped on it like that’s mine. So I believe you. I know it’s I regret. Yeah, it’s always in my laboratory. And, you know, I love Little Top. So Niecy Nash was like, all right, okay, well, guess what? She gave us all the streets to know that I’m not a copycat.

S8: Oh, no.

S6: You know, but I really like what you said about her body is on a journey that we are seeing a body on a journey because she did just turn fifty. And it is you know, we we don’t talk about personal lives, but it has been something to see her come into herself as a woman who is, you know, quote unquote older or whatever, and that she is, you know, learning stuff about herself or letting us learn stuff about her. You know, that I would say that, yeah, she is letting us learn stuff about her and that she is just like I’m very proud of my body and this is what I have. And this is what what you’re going to get. I I love all of that. Niecy Nash. She’s beautiful. She’s talented. She’s she seems to be no nonsense as well. Like, you know, she knows how to play the game of Hollywood because you do definitely have to play a certain kind of game to be a part of that. But she is also like, I don’t have to put up with all of that, you know, like this. These are my my boundaries. And I’m still able to achieve what I want to achieve. So I respect her on multiple levels. I love me some Niecy Nash say.


S2: Right. And every time I see her, I smile like I was watching a movie on Netflix uncorked. Well, she plays a mother figure. And again, I was just kind of like, I’m just playing opposite Courtney Vance. She was so good. She was so good. So I get in a movie that I think, generally speaking, not great. She is between her and Courtney. I was like, I love my parents, but can these two be my substitute parents? Because I just love them. They just she in particular, she fills a role that could be quite 2D and she just fleshes out. She just makes it feel like an inhabited character in a way that you believe she does.

S9: Nicole’s favorite thing is to face acting or acting. She does very, very gentle face work as well, which she also doesn’t never have. I ever as. Great moment between her and her clients mother, well, they both kind of sit in a silent kind of IOFFE and I’m just like, oh, I love it. It’s just it’s great. She has the chops. She does so much. She does so much. She doesn’t so well. And every time I see her, I feel a feeling in my emotion center where I’m just kind of like, I want the best for you, whatever you want. I hope you get, you know.

S15: Yes. And I hope she gets her flowers. I mean, I, I mean, I’m definitely giving them to her now. I hope the fans are giving them to her because also what we know as black women is that we can’t wait for them or what we know as black people because they don’t gave Chad so many flowers this weekend. But all right. They gave it to him last week, you know, but you could cut that back because no one would start having feelings. But, you know, as black people, we need to to give each other our flowers now. And she’s doing such a good job. And what I do notice from the acting resume is that she’s doing a thing that a lot of us do or that that resonates with me is I take a lot of gigs that are different to show that I can do it because people don’t think black women, black men can do different things. Right. They see me coming down the street and they want to give me the black. I’m a I’m a producer. They want to give me the black podcast right off the bat. They want to give me the hip hop show right off the bat. But I think she’s doing what I recognize it, you know, like the drama, the comedy, the all that. And she’s just she’s just so good. She’s a perfect she’s a perfect specimen.


S2: You what I love is how much warmth is in your voice as you talk about Niecy. And I wish I wish, especially in light of the news today of her of her recent nuptials. I wish. I mean Loveleen congrats. Congrats. Congrats to Jessica. But a part of me is kind of like when C.K. was right there. Missy you could have just pulled in on Brooklyn and just hey what’s up T.K.?

S15: You know what, the streets, what it came and you know the streets don’t like a good age gap romance, you know.

S6: You know what. Good point. That’s that, that’s. I like it.

S2: Oh my gosh. As she always has impeccable taste in clothes and clothes and shoes, and I don’t have to be like a fashion person to see that, so. Right. Yes, yes. Yes. She also I just want to also talk about her hair.

S5: It’s never less than Sterling. And that was even in Reno 911 one right where she’s meant to be like this over the top.

S2: You know, she used to have this amazing baby hair situation that curlicues. Yeah, there’s a really famous clip where she’s talking about this girl who has like different textures in her hair. And she’s like, now, listen, your ponytail can’t be from China while the front of it is from Africa or something. I can’t remember exactly. You know, you can’t have Africa in Africa and China in a back. Yes.

S3: It’s so funny. She’s shit.

S2: But like she said, she delivers that joke with, like, a perfect gel’s down, gorgeous head of hair. And I’m like, man, this is nice hair privilege. Like, she always has nice hair. There is. I’ve never seen her looking even a smidge raggedy. She’s like, no, no. When I leave the house. Yeah, you will know I have left the house, you know, was. Yes. Big party she had she was the host of one of those housing shows for a really long time. What was it. It was like an organized clean house. Clean they are. Thank you. She has a host of Clean House. So again, range range. She said, I will host. I will model. I will act. I will produce. What do you like to. I already said it. Chaka Khan. Every woman, she just doesn’t. She doesn’t. She needs a late night talk show like listen Niecy Nash or Rita. Yes, they both would be great. Yeah.


S15: So good of both. I want to give a shout out to her voice because I don’t think voices are celebrated enough and the fact that whoever her agent is and whatever she’s telling her agent to do is a lot. I think a lot of, I don’t know, agent types would have shut you down by now. You know, like you got to do something about that. And I’m like, no great accent, great intonation. We need more of that. I don’t know. I’m a voices person and I love to hear different people, like even people with like speech issues or what the world perceives as speech issues, because we need to to experience the breadth of different voices. And Niecy Nash gives us she just gives us voice. That’s her voice. That her voice. She doesn’t change it for for anything yet. And if she did, we would know that it’s for a good reason.

S2: Right. Right. But she has she’s from Compton, right. She’s like a California girl. Yeah. She’s from essentialist somewhere. Right.

S9: And she has such a specific look, again, those distinctive sounds. And I just she does this thing again, small but incredibly effective. Where she softens it when she needs to and she hardens it when she needs to. And the difference is polla like, yeah, you know what you’re getting when she puts on either one of that, let that edge into voice.

S2: I’m just like, give it to me. Like, she’s just and yeah, I every time I see she has that also that thing that I only ever really have with Rihanna, when I see her smile, I smile back on screen. Yeah. Let me see smiles on screen. And I’m just like, oh hey. Oh sorry. That’s heavy. She can’t see. I do it with Rihanna. I do with Niecy. They have such open faces of just kind of like it’s it draws you in. So, you know, once you get you have done such little convincing because Nicole and I were already, it turns out on board. Yeah. Yeah.

S15: I feel so like it’s like such a winner right now.

S2: When a winner chicken dinner is yours, you’re getting the chicken a joke like yes, you have to.

S9: You see, we knew we knew we were in safe hands. We were like, T.K. is going to come up here and whatever she delivers will be good for us. And you know what, Dick? My faith was rewarded. You gave me exactly what I needed.

S7: I’m always trying to serve up that variety. Yeah. Come see me, y’all. I love it. I love it.

S6: Thank you so much for coming and talking about Sampo, who we love great music. Niecy Nash, who we love, who is an incredible actor. Beautiful. Also, just like you said, a role model like somebody that you can just kind of be like, OK, yeah, I see what she’s doing. Let me see how I can manifest that in my own life. Like, what am I hey man, let me bring it to my life. Oh, I love this was so this was so good. This was such a lovely reunion.

S7: It was lovely. So happy to be here, ladies. Oh, we love you more. Thank you. Thank you so much.

S8: I love I thought I was back on the House side of. OK, I have to let me just ask this now.

S9: Where can people find you and your amazing self in all the various things you do?

S15: Yeah, right now social media is the best place because things are in flux. Wink, wink, wink, wink, wink.

S8: You to me love the following audible wink.

S15: Things are in flux. So just the social media at Tastykake on IG or Twitter, you know, LinkedIn for the professional stuff. But how do you not mean, you know, we always trying to work, but yeah definitely hold on because I’m trying to do some stuff and I want to do all the things that Niecy and Chadwick and all the black stars have been teaching us to do and just bring other young black stars under the wing of my black star in this that I feel I have. But niggas don’t know yet.

S2: I love it. It’s a philosopher in the building. I love this. Appreciate you, T.J.. Thanks, lady.