The Many Lives of Joshua Jackson

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S1: Open up. Joshua said as he dipped hit. And pressed it to my lips, I shouldn’t a moment, but I open wide anyway.

S2: Disgusting. And I love it. Thank you.

S3: All right. Damn. Hey, Nicole, how are you today?

S4: You know, I’m present in Scorpio season and I am present. I never know any season beyond Aries.

S2: So yay for Scorpios. I guess it was entirely needless. sonicwall. Thanks. So that would leave one person literally in the middle. You see that? All right. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

S5: Well, today we’re going to talk about someone who is a Gemini, a Gemini, Mars. And you know, he is someone I came to late in life, shall we say. I see. But I’m here. Yeah, here now. And I. And I understands why he has been, you know, a part of thirst culture for 20 years.

S6: Listen. So I came to him closest at the beginning of this 20 years. So I I’m the direct opposite of you. I have been drinking at this particular fountain for a very long time.

S2: I should just say who is. Yes, it’s Joshua Jackson. Yes, it is. I love the Joshua.

S7: I have I’ve had a very longtime crush on him. Interesting. Yeah. Like he was very much just like the basic idea, because this is the thing we talk a lot on the show about when first of first kind of introduced and how that impacts what you go on to like. Right.

S8: For me, the blueprint is kind of teenage, Pacey. Even though he was clearly a teenager when he was playing. Right. But like, very, very important. And then over the years, he’s matured. He’s kind of like can a little bit. Let’s just say it’s just a lot of there’s a lot of love for gesture that I am very excited for us to kind of explore this episode. You know, like it’s gonna be a really bonding experience. This is a good. It’s gonna be a good conversation.

S5: Okay. I’m ready to hear why I should have picked up on Joshua. Pacey Jackson much sooner. But like I said, I’m here now. I’m down.

S9: What a calling card. All right. Let’s get into it.

S4: So, Nicole. Yes, we are talking about Joshua Jackson this week. Yes. He lied to Josh because sometimes he’s Joshua, sometimes sometimes his Vancity Jax. We don’t know. Right. I think I’m going to say Joshua. Allah. Rachel from Friends. His name is Josh.. Joshua. I dated a Joshua and I will call him Joshua because it’s the way it’s when you say it.

S10: It’s the way a kids form. Yes. It’s like a little open mouth. That’s it. It ends on a side. Yeah. A little push of the tongue. And then. Yes. Joshua. Wow, OK.

S9: You’ve already got ahead of us. Let’s pull this shit back. Follow MacNicol. Let’s begin at the very beginning. Joshua Jackson is another person that I did not realize I could feel this way about.

S6: In what way?

S5: Explain yourself again, because I will not familiar with much of his filmography. I see. Obviously, I knew of him. Who knew who he was? Whatever. I didn’t stick with a lot of work that he did. Just not literally thought of him as a stoner because he has a very youthful face. He has been in a lot of young targeted our young audience, targeted work, which, as you know, is not anything that moves me often. Right. So I didn’t I just didn’t sit down with the stuff that he did.

S8: I get that. I fully understand. And you’re right about the youthful face. I think people forget that he actually came up as a child actor. I think often about generational differences where everyone’s like, oh, that person is this anomic? Ho, ho, ho. Let me tell you something. A young person. But my initial introduction to Justice Jackson was when we were both children.

S9: I wanted to win. And I want to show you. I loved those movies. He was in the mighty Dougs movie. Yes. And now I was watching the show in Nigeria. There’s no ice hockey in Nigeria. Shocking. Like it is not a natural sports in Nigeria.

S2: But I remember for those years, I was like, you know, well, I think I could really get into ice hockey fair. I could understand why. But I was really into it.

S8: But of course, really my real full on love for him didn’t form until Dawson’s Creek, which I watched diligently and you only discovered a couple of years ago.

S5: Right. And I was like, look, I’m not going to start this shit from the beginning. So I went on Twitter and I said I said, where should I start? And everyone was like Season 3. That’s the most pacey centric one. So I started watching it and I was like, what in the hell?

S2: Why?

S11: Why is this show not called Pacey’s Creek? Let’s say, hey, C is the motherfuckin star. We knew this. Oh, my God. Like Dustin. OK, we’re not gonna talk about Dawson.

S2: You know, we weren’t we’re not gonna let that episode, you know. And it will never be to lay that out there. Let me tell you something. It’s never gonna happen. Don’t even ask. But I was like, who is the grown man that they have modeled Pacey after?

S5: Because he like even though I know that he’s supposed to be in high school right now and, you know, whatever this some like weird time warp thing happening as I’m watching it in 2017, 2018, whatever. I was I. Pacey, what do you do?

S8: He’s a man. And they’ve basically said, hey, what are you gonna be a 17 year old boy in school? And it’s labor. And it’s nothing to do with his physicality. He’s like some big man. He looks like a young guy.

S2: Right. It’s not that it’s it’s the the debts to him. Like you look at him, you look into his eyes. I like motherfucker. You are not acting. He felt like a real man.

S11: He’s like a man. He felt like any romance novel hero. Yeah. You know that you kind of have to like Polish a little bit to get to. Yeah. Like 80s, early 90s romance novel here where you have to do. You know, maybe a little bit more emotional labor than you would like.

S5: But he the way that he would when he was with Joey and he would kind of like touch her very softly on her arm and try to get her to open up about her reservations and things that she was concerned about.

S10: Yeah. The way that he would try to seduce somebody. He was a groom. I can’t say anything else. But as he was a grown man, he was so mature, even though he was in his 20s playing this character, he was still so good, just so earnest. And he was so sincere. Yes. And when he would be in pain, you know, some kind of emotional situation that would happen and he would be in pain and like crying. I was just like, oh, my God, you are incredible. Yeah. His talent is such a young age. Yes. It’s mind-blowing.

S8: He’s a very naturalistic performer. I think he’s someone who I like. And I don’t know his process, but he feels like someone who looks at the environment and then creates around what he can see, what he can think, what he can touch. And there’s there’s a scene in particular when you talk about how tender he is. And it’s not just with Joey, by the way, because before he’s with Jimmy, he has this wonderful girlfriend called Andy, who has lots of problems and is working through them. Yeah. And he has like fans that he’s very much everybody’s friend. He’s a kind of guy who kind of like Mel’s and with every group. Right. So he’s very tender with all of his female friends, all of his male friends. He’s oddly he’s you know, there’s a terrible phrase from the 90s when, you know, he said it’s a metrosexual. But he was very much he cared about how he looked and he cared about his friends. And he was just like this nice guy. And there’s a scene where he does something, it’s a very famous scene. There are lots of people, those of us who watch this shit back in the day. I only have to look into their eyes and say very softly. And it’s the scene. He bought me a wall.

S12: I bought rented. This thing didn’t come cheap either. Cost me one hundred bucks. He bought me a wall. You said that already. Look, it’s a limited time, officer. You should get cracking. They say, did you fail to notice the size of this thing? I just thought your next endeavor should be bigger and better than the last one. Was important to keep on growing both as a person and as an artist. I also got you this. I know it’s not going to cover the whole thing, but as the saying goes, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. I’m going to need your help on this one. No, no, no, no. Not this time. You’re on your own, sister.

S8: So, listen, I got the writing on the show was often melodramatic to the point of ridiculous. Right. Well, you’re kind of like, why on earth is this 17 year old talking like a 35 year old man?

S2: He’s been to therapy, post-Civil War, however.

S8: However, it works, especially when it was Pesi doing the talking of these ridiculous words, because that whole scene like you just putting your hands to you, a chance thing you like going on. And let’s also like when you said you said that already.

S2: I mean, it’s sort of both sweet and also like, okay, come on, get up. Let’s see.

S10: Let’s move on to the important thing here, which is I believe in you. I believe in you. I believe in your art, and I want you to succeed. Listen. That is so important.

S2: That’s my love language. Oh, my god. Me a fuckin Folbre when I watch that as a teenager, it’s. Yeah. I must have been a teenager. I remember kind of thinking, oh, my God, I just love that. I thought that entirely without any self-critique, I was like, Oh, no, no, I’m worth that. I’m more. I’ll just point out how not cheap. Back then was one hundred bucks. Shut up. Capitalism.

S10: But it’s also he bought her this wall or rented us the wall. Said I believe in you.

S5: I believe in you. I want you to I want you to have whatever you need to move forward. And she’s like, well, I need your help.

S11: He’s like, now this is all you. And so he’s got out of the way this. There you go. Let’s do it. Okay, listen. He got out of the way and he called. I am so aroused right now. Can I just say he was not trying to take credit for anything that she was gonna do with that wall? Never. He just wanted to give her the tools she needed and then just let her go.

S7: Listen, he would never, ever proposed to her on her graduation day.

S2: Oh, that’s my biggest, most pointless pet peeve of all time. And understand that Pacey would never do that. Never. Let’s say there’s another scene that you particularly responded to.

S8: Now, my guy, like I said, I was watching this as a teenager, so I had appropriately teenage response to it. But it kind of hits difference when you’re watching this particular scene and you a grown up and you’ve been through some things. Yes. And you and you are coming back into the world and you just kind of kind of like looking for a sign.

S6: You’re looking for hope. You’re looking to understand that men, while mostly terrible, are sometimes redeemable.

S5: Yes. So this scene is it’s a prom or some kind of dance. Right. Right.

S11: Yeah, prom. And Pacey has gone with Andy. Yes. His girlfriend. Yes. Joey is there with Dawson. Yep. Dawson has given her a pair of earrings that she really didn’t like. Yeah, but she wore them because, you know, what you do is what you do. And that’s a patriarchy. Dawson was just her. I don’t know her north star for so long.

S6: I mean, he was in a way had NSW also her white whale. She always felt like she never deserved him. And I wanted to say it’s iness.

S2: What were five million dollars? I have so many problems with Joey. Eileen, listen.

S5: Anyway, yes, he comes that the areas are not her, but he sees that she’s wearing this very pretty bracelet and he says this bracelet is more you. It’s not, you know.

S11: And, you know, it’s a little annoying because it’s almost like it gets to the point, you know, like when those controlling boyfriends who like this isn’t you, you need to wear this. Yeah. But it’s also sweet. And we’ll figure out why it’s sweet in the rest of this clip.

S13: This. Not showy or gaudy. Holligan. Some.

S14: I know, you know, because you told me six months ago you were wearing that blue sweater. Snowflakes that you have, you’re walking down the hallways at school. I was annoying you, as per usual. Look, I just found my mother’s bracelet this morning. Why don’t you cut me some slack?

S15: Remember that? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Have energy, that shit has given me energy. I’m charged up here. Oh, my God.

S8: So there’s a number of things in that scene. There is, of course, the dreary music which shattered. So it’s time. But there’s also a sweet undercurrent like what Joey is experiencing is a person saying, hey, I see you.

S11: Yes. And most recently, we talked about that with hot priest, how he sees fleabag and understands her. And that’s what’s happening in this scene. It’s Pacey sees Joey. He he remembers Joey.

S6: He listens to the fact that she delivers in an offhand manner. She’s lucky she’s not telling him this stuff so she can quiz him later. Yeah. When you think about someone, when you care about someone, you remember the shit that they say. Yeah. And it’s a dead giveaway when someone’s kind of like, oh, yeah. Let me tell you the details of that day. It was a sunny Thursday. I was in the hallway. I was annoying you, as per usual, which I don’t think we did notice that failure clearly. Yeah. He’s you know, you thought I was there and then you mentioned your mom. So at this point, we know that Joey’s family situation is kind of, you know, a mixed bag. Her father is incarcerated. Her older sister is kind of like looking after the whole situation. Her mother has passed away. There’s a lot of just like baggage there and she’s working through it and he makes stuff difficult. So for Pacey to have noticed the, you know, the bracelet, to have remembered what it meant, like that’s I don’t know, man. That’s Piel sex to me.

S10: It is so incredibly hot and sweet that the twin towers of of real buzz.

S2: Is it hot? Is it sweet? Put it in my bag. Yes. But also with that scene.

S5: Pesi is running his hands, his fingers like the back of his fingers up and down her arm, she’s wearing like a spaghetti strap dress. Her arms are exposed, right? Fashion her. He is lightly touching her bag.

S11: And they’re doing a very simple slow to step on a dance floor. Reich is who knows what means that real music right now at the time it just created this very intimate bubble. Its bubble is right. Yes. And then he leans in even closer each and whispers. I remember everything.

S2: He says it right above her ear. That kind of shit that makes like, God, I’m not okay.

S6: No. But the idea is on being able to kind of duplicate real emotion. Yeah. In a way that feels authentic and you don’t feel cheated. You don’t feel as though you’re being kind of led down a garden path. You just think to yourself, wow, I feel I know what I’m supposed to be feeling and I’m feeling it.

S5: Yes. Because part of the things that, you know, kind of pull me away from Dawson’s Creek are the rest of it. When I’m watching it is the language does not feel natural. And some of the other actors mouths the circumstances. Of course, they have to be outside because we’re watching. It’s a television show. But some of that, you know, that kind of it will pull me away. But with Joshua Jackson s pesi, I am on the edge of my seat all the way I standing up.

S11: And when he’s having moments of high passion, you know, when he’s just like mad at someone, when he’s, you know, trying to seduce someone, I’m cheering him on in my living room like, you know, all this stuff. Like, I really feel invested in his performance. And I think that carries on into his other performances later in life once he leaves Dawson’s Creek behind.

S6: I think that’s very impulsive. But before we leave Dawson’s Creek behind, I want to just mention one scene which comes at the very end of the series. So at this point, Pacey has been essentially in love with Joey for literally 10 years. He is kind of broken up about say they’ve at this point, they’ve been together, they’ve broken up, they’ve got back together. It’s been a mess. You know, that whole thing of just like trying to figure out yourself on another person. And sometimes the two things don’t match. And so it’s been one of those just one of those experiences where you kind of think, well, if they were gonna do it, they would have done it. And it’s not happening. And that’s fine. Whatever. And so they come together. It’s the final episode that they’ve come together for a very sad reason. I think it’s fine to spoil this now, but Jen is dead. And it is. I mean, first of all, fuck everyone does that decision.

S2: The best actor and the best. Right. And I wanna know what joke’s on you because Michelle Williams is that bitch. Let’s listen and listen. Well, well, that’s a bold for another fucking day. In any case, they’re there at Jen’s funeral and they’re kind of in the kitchen together at this point.

S6: Pacey’s working in a big city. He’s working in master of his own kitchen. You know, Joey’s out in New York doing literary shit and whatnot, which sure, why not? And then they’re in the kitchen and they just have this little moment. And at this point, you can tell. Going back to that feeling of therapy. Here is a man who has worked through some shit and he’s kind of like, you know what? What I’m gonna do is release myself from a cycle of bad behavior that is not advancing or progressing my life in the way that I want it to. And I’m gonna take some control here. I’m going to lay my cards on the table and then I’m going to retreat. But it’s not out of fear or cowardice. It is purely for the sake of moving on to something bigger, something other than this. And the scene is electrifying. There is a particular line which I’m sure you recognize it when you hear it, but. Oh, my God. Let’s let’s watch this. You’re off the hook.

S16: You’re off the hook. I never really put much faith in that. If you love someone, set them free crap, as evidenced by everything I’ve done in my life up to this very moment. But I’m determined to be happy.

S13: Are you happy in this life? And I love you. I mean, I have always, always loved you.

S16: But timing has just never been right. And the way I figure it, time is no man’s friend. So I have to get right with that and be happy now because this is it. I mean, this is a hole that we get. One thing I’ve learned from losing face, because I also want for you to be happy. It’s really important for me that you’d be happy. So I want you to be with someone, whether it be Dawson or New York or some man that you haven’t even met yet.

S17: But I want you to be with someone who can be a part of the life that you want for yourself.

S18: I wanted to be with someone who makes you feel like I feel when I’m with you.

S17: I guess the point of this long run on sentence that’s been in the last 10 years of our lives. It’s just that the simple act of being in love with you was enough for me.

S19: OK, so simple.

S20: At the edge of being in love with you is in mother. What’s within?

S5: I have not finished Dawson’s Creek, so I have not gotten all the way to that point. I knew I knew what would happen to Dean and all that stuff. So this is actually my first time hearing this.

S21: I’m like, wow, I almost want to cry. And I have skipped like I haven’t even got into this shit. He is.

S6: He’s so evolved and he’s so natural and again, that performance, the bit when his voice cracks a little bit when he says, I’ve been in love with. I’ve always. Yes. Loved you. And you kind of think Cenizo has.

S20: We watched it. He has always been in love with you. You fucking idiot.

S4: Figure it out. I mean, I have such affection for Joshua Jackson. Yeah.

S22: The way that he.

S5: Imbues Pesi again with that wisdom that he should not have. But life, you know, kind of forces you to grow up a little bit. Listen. It was just incredible work.

S8: Listen, we’ve spent far too long on Pesi. Yes. And there was so much more to Justice Jackson, but Pesi was an outsize sort of figure. I think for me as a teenager and for Nicole as a grown woman, that we had to spend that much time, because I think also he’s. That is the bulk of so many people’s. That is a nexus of so many people’s desire for justice. Jackson is is imbued in this boy who for the longest time was a man. Yeah. Like in the shape of a boy. There’s something very adult and grown up about this character that we all recognize even then and that thing about. It’s very rare that you fancy somebody at fifteen and you fancy them at 40. Right. And I think that speaks to how well-written the character was, but also how well-performed the character was.

S5: Yeah. Yeah. I’m just I’m amazed, like I said, that I am watching this, that I started watching it almost 20 years after it first aired. And I am still and are couching everything.

S4: Yeah. Right. Isn’t that lovely. On a time delay first. On a time delay. I I it.

S6: So let’s move on to some of the other things that Joshua Jackson has done in his career, because he’s also one of those actors who has been working pretty regularly for a very long time.

S5: Right. And again, stuff that I may not have necessarily seen, but I have heard so many people go on and on about it, like his part in cruel intentions. So many people when I would say I think we’re going to do an episode about Joshua Jackson at some point say would talk about obviously Pacey and then cruel intentions.

S8: Yeah. And it’s a small role. So it’s not even like it’s not like an out. He’s not one of the leads. He’s very much a supporting character. And he’s not the star of the show in any way. But he puts in a performance that steals the fifth like in every scene he’s in your eye is never on anybody except him. He plays a guy called Blaine. Blaine is kind of like a bleach blond. He’s a gay. He’s a young gay guy. He’s very kind of, you know, the 90s were a very special type of thinking. But he plays this character is kind of flamboyant and a little bit calm.

S23: Come to think of it, Valmont, he’s probably telling you the truth. I mean, a man can barely write out a grocery list, a letter.

S8: I was thinking, you know, at one point he’s kind of like worry, like a short robe and he’s filing his nails in bed. And it’s just like we get it. We know what you’re trying to say, that there has to be a better whatever easier way of transmitting whatever you’re trying to kind of transmit. But Blaine is like, Connie, he has like wonderful little asides. He’s clearly incredibly smart. You can see he is already figured out that the whole game of life is rigged and he is already kind of love. All right. Well, let’s just get into it where we can like that whole his whole ethos is get in where you fit in. And Blaine has mastered that shit. And that character, again, I don’t think he has more than 10 minutes on screen, maybe 15. Right. And yet you’re kind of like I remember Blaine. Yeah, I remember Blaine. Like, so that I went to school with him. Oh, Blaine. Yeah, I know him. He’s just a he’s a very good actor. And this is another fine example. But for me, the next big thing that he did post Dawson’s Creek, which is, you know, Dawson’s Creek ended in 2003. And then he didn’t he come was doing some TV, some film, and then he came back to TV in a big way. Five years after Dawson’s Creek ended, when he played Peter Bishop and Fringe now. Right. I love that show. I know you have not watched Fringe. Not in a way that was consistent. You have seen a lot of it.

S5: I think I stopped watching it before he became I don’t know from the way people talk a romantic interest. Yeah, I think I stop because people say that there’s like some tension or something that happened. There’s like a love story there. It’s one of the greatest love stories of all. Yeah, I do that watching it before it got to that.

S7: That’s entirely fair. It was kind of I think it took a while for Fringe to find its feet. So we kind of started out as kind of like supernatural. Then it was like, no. And then it kind of settled in by the second season. The first season. It was kind of doing case of the weak shit.

S5: I think I stopped watching it because it was so derivative of X-Files and I felt uncomfortable with that.

S6: That seems entirely fake. It kind of found its feet in a very big way. The second season is when it really settled into itself and began, you know, thinking about a much larger story behind the X-Files kind of thing. And then by the third season, which I think is its best season ever, it kind of really that’s when it kind of like really spread out and kind of like, man spread it all over the place, like we know who we are. I’m kind of like really took over. And yeah, he kind of evolved. He was at the beginning. He’s kind of like an angry son with good reason. Right. And then he kind of evolved into something a little bit more complex than a lot more complex. And then there were all these details that just make him this incredibly rich character. He’s playing opposite an amazing costs, like everyone is pulling their weight. Everyone is doing amazing. And he in particular is just delivering these quiet performances because, you know, you’re competing with his flamboyant father. His father, Walter Bishop, is like this kind of like, you know, he’s he’s a stereotypical kind of mad scientist, whatever that means. And culture, his he’s the woman who is his love interest played by and a tool of his kind of like his tortured kind of investigative genius. But she has like a dark past. And, you know, it’s kind of difficult to kind of not to throw in another element because it’s coming again is already so much happening. Right. And he takes the smallness and he makes it big. And it’s quite the trick because by the end of it, you just kind of like a Morlin pizza. He does these. He cries so beautifully.

S5: Yes. You know, we love a good crier. Yes. I just I want to weep with him and he makes it. How can I say this? We were just talking. We weren’t a live show with one of our colleagues, Ayman Ishmail. He has a show called Man Up. And we were on his life. Show results cry. He’s on Slate. Yes. And we were talking about men and crying and masculinity and things like that. And I think that what Joshua Jackson does, his characters largely are. Guys guys are like something along those lines. Right. And so when he has to cry, he does it in that very I don’t want to cry man kind of way, but there he is, vulnerable and it’s beautiful.

S24: And he just kind of lets it go.

S6: I actually disagree a little bit on the him being a man’s man. I think Joshua Jackson, the actor, Pesi Peter, all the other characters he’s played. I think they are very good friends to women. But I think you’re right about the crying. Always looking incredibly real. He always looks as though he has weighed the situation. And if he’s crying, that’s something to cry about. Yeah. Feels really kind of like I’m letting this shit out because he understands on a fundamental level that holding it in solves nothing. Yeah. And so I just really I love watching him cry. I think he he doesn’t do that thing where he’s kind of like biting his jaw and he’s kind of clenching and trying to keep it. And he’s kind of like, listen, I’m emotional. And then he has that moment and he does this really great thing, which some of my favorite actors, when they cry, they do this their eyes. Well, all the way up. Yes. Before the tears start. Yes.

S2: And there’s something in the build up. I don’t I don’t tears. Don’t turn me on. I’m just saying that when a man’s eyes are full, you’re just gonna, like, blink, motherfucker. Blinks of a hole. Yes. That for me, it turns out, is kind of a kink. That’s what I mean.

S5: When I’m like, he has to like. He lets it build up and then he breaks free. You know, and and maybe I don’t mean a guy’s guy, but I guess because I’m thinking of the way that his characters tend to use sarcasm and wit to keep people at a distance. And it gets right onto the edge of, you know, fratboy again that we’ve kind of talk about with other characters. Yeah. So that’s what I’m thinking about. Like he’s kind of you know, he’s kind of an asshole in many of his characters are kind of assholes. Yeah. So which I think is more of you know, I think men appreciate that more than women do.

S2: So that’s Joshua Jackson crying.

S10: Yes. And it is beautiful, beautiful the way he does. Like you said, let’s it build up and then it’s it’s he just lets go.

S8: It feels like a metaphor for something else. Listen, I just want to say what we’re all thinking, but it’s beautiful if you’re looking for that kind of. Yeah. That emotional payoff. I think if you haven’t seen Fringe get VA to a streaming service and just just bask in it, because I also think, again, which spoke about his talent as a child actor, as a teen actor, as a young man, the wonderful thing about watching Joshua Jackson is that in real time, you can see him getting better.

S6: He’s getting more new. And, yes, he’s adding life experience to the performances. But by the time they come out, you’re kind of like, yes, I see growth. It’s not that he was a bad actor. Right. It’s that he’s getting better. Right. And it’s wonderful because he’s on an actor who is ever going to be a straight-up movie star. He actually is an actor who is acting like there is you know, he’s doing kind of solid, meaty work that isn’t just flashy or beautiful and big. He’s doing real. And you can see you can see the development of scale. You can see him kind of really leaning into these roles. And, you know, I mentioned before, he’s kind of like, you know, he’s kind of bulked up. He’s no longer that slender, beautiful boy. And he in seeing that, you think, oh, yeah, like he’s playing fathers and shit.

S25: And I’m like, yeah, you should be.

S5: He’s getting old married man now, married man. Which makes me think of his next big thing, which was the affair. All right. And again, another show that I did not keep up with. Same Nicole, but I really wanted to because Joshua Jackson was amazing in that show. Joshua Jackson’s character, Cole, his wife, is having an affair. Yes. And we look at the ways that affair affects everyone around them and their small town, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And what I really liked about Cole beyond how handsome he was.

S6: I mean, Nicole, he the first instance that we see of him is him arriving on a horse.

S26: Listen, I like his beat. Oh, my God. But Joshua Jackson as Cole.

S1: Very like it is a tight wire.

S10: You don’t know if you pluck it. You don’t know if you’re gonna get the anger or the sexy, you know. He was so controlled. And then when things exploded. Yeah, it is like what is about to happen? He was so it is. And Joshua Jackson, even though he was just so in control of that character, he was. I really wish that the writing had been better. I just wish that they knew more of what they wanted to do with the story.

S6: So I felt to me like somebody had a really wonderful idea. We’re gonna play with memory. We’re going to look at, you know, stuff from multiple perspectives and blah, blah, blah. Are you all right? Great. Great. Oh, that’s it. And I think that was my problem with it. Like I went in as I I was anticipating bigness like big. What? And in the end, I was like. And I like maybe two people. I’m compelled by maybe two people here. Everything else I’m just going to like. And I don’t care. There’s a lot there’s a lot of potential in the show. And I would say the bulk of its success really does lie with coal. Yeah, because I’d. You did not keep up. But there was something about him. Livewire is such a great way to think about it. He looked like he was like and look like if you touch him, you’d get spox. Yes. He looked like he was bristling within. Yes. And that’s something whenever he would turn his gaze and look down the camera or look at whoever you’d be like, what does that feel like?

S2: Does an idol force in your mind? Oh, I see. There’s something about him. And he’s he’s kind of wild.

S8: It’s kind of unfettered. Yes. Yes. And that’s deeply attractive. I think, you know, at the beginning of the show, we learned that they’ve gone through a really horrific loss. And so they’re working their way through quite a bit of anger and a bit of, you know, repression and things are really not good for them. And then it manifests in these, you know, sometimes disturbing, often very sexy. I mean, the first in the very first episode, there is a very particular scene that involves the hood of a car. And I can’t even finish my sentence.

S2: Just a lot of I wanted I was there. What kind of show is there?

S20: I felt like I felt like everybody’s answer, well, this is dirty, but it’s it’s it’s really compelling. Like beyond sexy.

S10: Yes. And what really pulled me in for the little bit that I was there was this idea of who would cheat on coal. Yes.

S2: You know, you’re not the only one who had that thought. Nicole and. No, not at all.

S5: His cast, me, Dominic West, in an interview was like, how could he? Who could be? Who would deny Joshua Jackson?

S7: You know, sometimes on Twitter, somebody posts a photo of someone and someone, quote, tweets it. And they just want a very simple sentence, which is a man. Yes. And it’s kind of like fill in the blanks. Glady, that’s on you. This is something about looking at Joshua Jackson as Cole. That makes me go into Twitter mode and kind of a man.

S4: A man. There’s something there. Yes, he’s very good. And he’s good in so many things. That’s the thing. Like not just a film and TV actor.

S5: No. He’s been on Broadway in a play that we saw separately. Yes. Different times.

S6: Yes. And the play is Children of a Lesser God. So Children of a Lesser God is an old play by Mark Madoff. It was a Tony Award winning play back in the day. It’s kind of it’s about it’s about a very specific time in American history. It’s about deafness and deaf people and their rights. It’s about a love story.

S7: It’s about all sorts of things. And I mean, I went to see it because obviously it was Joshua Jackson. But in my head, I was like, this feels like a slightly outdated play to bring back. But you know what? It’s fine. Whatever. I bought my ticket. I went along. In the end, the show closed a little bit early, didn’t do the things that they wanted it to do. It was kind of sad for that reason. But I will say this. Joshua was fantastic in the play. Yes, it was so good. I understand that he learned American sign language for a and he is fantastic. He’s just this again, what we were saying before. A natural performer like it’s so cool. The play involves him kind of sometimes talking to us, the audience or gesturing at us.

S8: And it’s very easy to kind of when you break a fourth wall, it’s very easy to kind of get it wrong. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of miscalculates. Miss Calibrate. You know, I’m in theater, I’m acting, and it’s kind of like, okay, we get it. And I say this as a playwright, I don’t want these people coming for me. I am myself of the theater. Let’s all come down. But I remember going and kind of thinking, I hope he manages to kind of like navigate that. And he does. And he’s co-star Lauren Ridd. Love was fantastic.

S11: They had such chemistry. The chemistry was so clear from my nosebleed seats. It was great. And then, you know, I go to the stage door. Yes, yes, yes.

S22: And then. He sees me. And he sees me. OK.

S21: Like he notices me and he is very attentive. And the eye contact I have, I can not. I still do not know if I have ever had that kind of eye contact with anybody else in my life. Right. Just powerful. Yes. And his hair. We haven’t really talked about the physicality of Joshua Jackson. His hair was his curly sweet. Like cloud on his head, he gets hit was a little must. Yeah, I was like, oh, my God, my what?

S6: What do you need from me? So I had a similar experience where I was at Stasia with my friend. We had both been seeing the plane. We were waiting out there and he was a bit of a, you know, a chilly evening. I had my whole jacket on. Yeah. He gets to me and my friend, I kind of present it to him the playbill. And I’m like, Oh, that was a wonderful performance. I’m such a fan of yours have been for so long. He’s trying to sign the pen. Doesn’t work. He goes, oh, do you have another one? And so I give him my pen and he he kind of signs it and then he stops and again the attention and he goes, Where’s your accent from?

S2: And I was like, sure, it’s from London.

S7: I was like, oh, I thought, so. It’s a really good accent. And I was like, thanks. And again, I don’t do normally I’m I’m not necessarily the first person to make a move ever. But I remember having a very strong urge to kind of like, hey, Joshua, do you wanna get a drink with em?

S20: Cause I kind of look like, what else are we seeing each other right now? Yes. And my feeling was, yeah, we want now.

S2: Of course. Of course. Take it with a pinch of salt. I wasn’t feeling what I was feeling. You know, he felt kind of like, oh, for God’s sake, I’d write another one. Right. But I listen. I will go to my grave believing that Joshua Jackson saw me and we took a photo in the photo. First of all, you can count every single one of my teeth like I am grinning with it. Thirty two motherfucking teeth.

S8: They’re just all out of Wayne, this jacket. My head’s up in like a little ponytail and I am grinning. It’s. And he’s nice to me. He’s smiling. I posted the photo on on Twitter. Yeah. And I said something like, you know, I just want to point out that this doesn’t this photo look like a save the date photo that you’d put on the card? That was one inspiration. The other was, do we look like the couple that gives away full size candy bars at Halloween? Well, that sounds like a lot. Oh, my God. That’s Justin Bieber at the end of the at the end of the drive. They do this every year. Like he just looked like I’m not. Again, God bless him and his many endeavors. But I like to believe truly that, you know, in his personal life, which, you know, when I go to dwell on.

S27: He’s currently seeing an actor called Jodie Tony Smith.

S24: Right. Who is a black one.

S6: She’s a black woman. And I just want to say. You’re welcome, Judy.

S2: I just want to put that on the table. You’re welcome, sis.

S5: Joshua Jackson. Listen, if you listen to this episode, I just see people talking about it on Twitter. Because we do see that you are active on social media. Please know you have an open invitation to come on the show. That’s it.

S28: And if you’re not able to come on the show, you can just, you know, take me and Ben out for a steak dinner. I don’t know. You know, respectfully.

S6: Yeah, of course. Hey, we’ll be here. Listen, I’m open to all the all the avenues. Nicole, I have just one more thing to say to you before I wrap this up.

S21: I remember everything like.

S9: Sure. All right. They’re still sweating. We have survived somehow. Did we? Are we sure this isn’t just like an echo or a revenants go adjustable?

S6: Jackson Man Just. There are so many possibilities and plans. In my mind’s eye, they’ve been brewing for a very long time.

S9: And that’s why we have fanfic. That’s literally why this is both like the exact reason this entire segment was created so that we can write them down.

S5: And, you know, everything’s all nice and safe.

S2: Yes. And then move on with your life, kind of like. All right. And close that chapter. I’m excited to hear what you’re doing this week.

S8: I am. Joshua is so important. Yeah. In terms of my first development.

S4: Yes. Yes, I understand. Right.

S8: And he was perhaps the first example of understanding that the lead guy isn’t always the guy that is worth your time.

S26: Message that really touched me.

S2: Nicole called me a philosopher of bursts and I liked him philosophize and bitch. I just said that was one of the finest examples in my young life.

S7: Kind of like, huh? Not only is this Dawson’s Creek. They’ve named it after this fucker. Right. But he is not the guy, right? He has never been the guy. Never. And it’s so interesting. The idea of a Trojan horse seeing the correct person in is not new. Right. Well, that for me was a very illustrative first example of kind of like listen and listen. Well, then who the person that is in front of your face is not always the person that you should be looking at. I was the obvious choice. And to that end, I have recreated a scene in my mind’s eye. When I think about your show, I think of myself as a more youthful person. Right. So I basically took my one sided love affair with Joshua Jackson and kind of pretended Charlotte’s affection that we have been in this dance for longer than we have been. Oh, OK. Joshua has no idea I exist. Right. That’s fine, though. But but in fanfic, we’re friends. Yes. We’ve been doing this dance.

S2: Anything is pass anything. My has a boundaries. Okay. So I’m gonna get into it. You ready? Go.

S27: I’m ready. Okay. He found me outside in the central corridor. My heels kicked off my back against the wall. I turned my face briefly when I heard his footfalls approach, but I already knew it would be him. I’d recognize that specific cadence of his walk. Always crisp, never shuffling anywhere. My dress had hiked itself higher when I’d sunk to the floor earlier. Joshua paused over me, a large but benevolent shadow, and gently nudged my thigh with the tip of his boot. I raised my head to look at him through an exaggerated squint, and he took the hint. He squatted to meet my eyes, the familiar crinkles of the corners of his dislodge, the new voluntary sigh from my diaphragm. His face had been familiar to me for a decade and a half now. First as friends. And then something much more. And each new year revealed something new to me. Tired of reminiscing. He tilted his head back to the hole we’d exited and sort of rolled his eyes a little bit. Yeah, I replied, thinking about our university friends still in there, talking about new children, new jobs, older divorces. I motioned for him to join me back against the wall, and he obeyed in an instant when he was settled. He traced his forefinger over my knee in no specific pattern. You missed a scintillating recap of Naomi’s divorce proceedings, he said mildly. You’ll never know who got the dogs. Naomi did. I said when he raised an eyebrow, I flashed him a quick grin before continuing. She showed me the pics in the toilet earlier. Detective +0 on me solves another case. He gestured to a non-existent audience as I bought my head with false humility. But she’s also tired. Yes. His hand smooth my dress before resting on my stomach for a longer than normal beat. I covered his hand with mine and we smiled wide at one another. Everything was still so new, but it had never been better.

S29: Hand on the belly. Is it a baby?

S26: Who can say he can practice?

S2: Well, Mr. Jackson, I am so sorry. I’m so sorry, Nicole. Yes. How you feeling? I am feeling OK. Yeah. Yes. I’m going to take a sip of water. And then I’m going to I’m just going to read. OK. OK. All right.

S24: I pulled back the shower curtain to reach for my towel, but it wasn’t on the rack. Instead, Joshua stood holding it, waiting for me. Which my lady, he said, dipping into a courtly bough. Oh, I like this, I replied, smiling as I stepped into the spread of cotton he held. I immediately turned to him. Eyes wide. Did you warm this up? I squeaked out. Of course I did. I’d hate for such precious skin to catch even the slightest of chills. Shudder. He winked at me and assured me into the bedroom, which was lit by candles. Only he indicated I was to sit on the edge of the bed, and he grabbed another large towel and began padding my arms and back dry. He lowered himself to the floor and raised my right foot into his lap. He scooped a small portion of cocoa butter into his hands and met my eyes. He rubbed the lotion over my foot and ankle, working his hands up my leg. His eyes never leaving mine. His finger reached my knee. And I opened my legs, giving his hands room and permission to keep moving up and up. And he tucked a smile away as he avoided my thigh and turned to my left foot to begin the soft torture all over again. This time just before he reached my thigh. He sat back on his haunches and asked, Can you please dance so I can get to the rest of you? I stood and let the towel wrapped around me fall to the floor for a second, he forgot his game and his eyes danced over me. He took in a quick, quiet breath. I reached out to him and cupped his cheek, gently tilting his face to look at me. We were silent for a moment. Reading the outcome of this play in each other’s eyes. I gave him a soft smile, the smile I give him. Each morning when I realized the night before was not a dream.

S1: Finish your task. I whispered. All right.

S26: Sure. Whoo!

S10: Boy, high notes here.

S7: Fantastic work this week. Thank you. I mean. I mean, cigarette.

S24: I mean, I need some whiskey, neat ISIS.

S2: Joshua Jackson, please come to the studio.

S28: I mean, wow. Wow.

S30: We.

S2: So, yeah, there there it is. We have provided two very different options for fanfic was this week one drabble in which the two people were wearing clothes and another Drabble where one of us was not wearing clothes. Choose your poison. Pick whichever one tickled the food and we will. I mean, honestly, the poll matters, but it doesn’t matter. We always win. Frankly, there are no losers. It’s just it’s all fanfic, fabulousness, writers writing. This is a prize. Is a prize enough. All right. Thanks. Thanks. Head teacher Perkins. But we’ll pull up the poll on Twitter, which is at first aid kit.

S6: And you get to pick which one and. Yeah. Send us your own troubles. Should you wish to, Joshua, ignite a very specific fire in you. Well, let’s talk about it. Send us your trouble. The e-mail address is first aid kit at Slate dot com. And if we like it, we might could read it on the air. Okay. Let me go drink a bottle of water and put my head under the tap. I am overheated.

S5: Yeah, I need any some ice.

S31: First aid kit is a slate production produced by Cher Vincent and as Nicole Perkins and them at OWUMI, Our music is by Tanya Morgan.

S32: You can follow the show on Twitter at first aid kits and we are at Bimmer Du. That’s B. I am a d.w and Tennessee Whiskey Woman. That’s T N whiskey with an E. Woman foreswear on tumblr at first aid kit podcast on tumblr dot com.

S31: If you send a question even anonymously, we might answer some of your first buckets lives where you listen every week and we want to let you know that we see you and we appreciate you. If you want to join them, please use the hashtag trackpad. That’s okay. p.o.d.. Or you could write us an email containing your thoughts at Thursday at Slate dot com.

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S31: All of our episodes and links to listen at Slate dot com slash podcast slash first aid kit.

S32: We’ll be back next week. In the meantime, please, first responsibly. And that means headphones with some refreshments and if you like, with friends buy.

S5: I don’t like to say I met him, you know, it’s not like a real.

S2: It’s all gone. Yeah. Right. You know, he stood outside his place of work. I. I notice me. I my.