S1: The following podcast may be a little dirty, but forget about that. Going to tell you to go to our Twitter feed at Slate, just dot com. It’s Wednesday, June 3rd, 20-20 from Slate, it’s the gist. I’m Mike Pesca. Mark Esper, secretary of Defense, was dragooned military term into a photo op with Donald Trump made possible by tear gassing peaceful protesters. The Trump administration disputes the idea that it was a photo op, that the protesters were peaceful and that tear gas was used. They put a lot a lot of effort into arguing that pepper spray and tear gas are two totally different things. But they are not disputing Espers conscious uncoupling. With that shameful incident or his rejection of Trump’s casual bandying about of the Insurrection Act.
S2: I’ve always believed and continue to believe that the National Guard is best suited for performing domestic support to civil authorities in these situations in support of local law enforcement. I say this not only as secretary defense, but also as a former soldier and a former member of the National Guard. The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act.
S1: Officials from the Defense Department have been arguing desperately so that the SEC Def and General Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, were entirely unaware of the nature of their jaunt. Quote, The understanding was they were walking out of the White House to walk through Lafayette Park to review efforts to quell protests, ADHD official told NBC Esper address that idea in today’s press conference.
S2: I did know that following the president’s remarks on Monday evening that many of us were going to join President Trump and review the damage in Lafayette Park and at St. John’s Episcopal Church. What I was not aware of was exactly where we’re going.
S1: When we when we arrived at the church and what the plans were once we got there, the leader of the Defense Department did not know where he was being led to, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, under whose command every service member and every branch of the United States military serves. He’s arguing he’s just following orders. You can see what’s going on in the past couple of days. So many current and former military people have expressed discomfort at the low end ire on the high side over what Esper and Milley were doing or made to do. It galled them to see Milli’s specifically wearing battle fatigues, surveying an area to see if the U.S. military had, quote, dominated the battle space, to use Espers phrase from earlier Monday. Mere hours before the blind sortie to St. John’s Church, what else was doing is defending his honor. But in this sense, honor means his pride in so far as he takes pride in his status as a military man, a graduate of West Point, an officer in the Hundred First Airborne. His status is upholding the norms of the subculture, and that status was shaken. So what he did was he distance himself from our norm, shattering president. It was a way, as I said, to preserve honor. But I think it’s the wrong kind of honor. You see, the Greeks thought of honor as a commodity, a good sort of fill up a vessel of personhood with it. It wasn’t just a virtue. It was really the sum of one’s worth, the valuing of honor in this way as a thing earned or gained persisted through millennia. Really, if you look up to the civil war, soldiers would volunteer as a means specifically of amassing this quantity, of amassing honor. What do I do to a mass honor? This was a question. A young man, even through the early part of the 20th century, would ask himself in war was the ready answer. So if you think of honor as a property to be preserved, then you will defend it. You don’t want to lose it as a person like Esper would by violating military and civilian distinctions. But if you look at honor less like, I don’t know, hit points and Dungeons and Dragons or a chalice that can spill onto the floor. If you look at it more like a Christian would look at the idea of morality or a Buddhist would look at Dharma. It takes on a different sheen. Mark Espers lost honor cannot be restored by reestablishing the line between military man and Trump flunkey. There is no amount of resetting that can be done to restore honor. If you are by your very position in an active state of dishonor, and I don’t mean just because he accepted the job in the administration, he became inherently dishonorable because I think General Mattis took the job. But he served with honor, which is to say, he put country first. Maybe then the armed forces second. The president or the presidency was a thing to BBB or. Paid or worked around for the good of the country. Mark Esper is, I think, a little different. He’s a former defense contractor. He would like the esteem of the defense community, but he is there to serve Trump. He’s there after Mattis left, after Patrick Shanahan’s supposed nomination imploded. And that’s saying Mark Esper has never done anything right. I’m not saying that he doesn’t frequently act in the national interest. And I’m not saying that he’s never manage Trump or sidestepped Trump or maybe even slyly defied him. But I am saying his honor is transactional. It’s not fixed to a principle and that he received a signal that he lost face from his community is what motivated him to come out and try to distance himself. That is different from realizing he did the wrong thing because a man of true honor would never have been so surprised as to have taken part in that photo op in the first place on the show today. A short spiel because I have been crushing it with content, haven’t I? So I will back up. I will tell you a little bit about Merrick, New York. If you heard of this, I am from there are really two towns over. But first, when Jesuit priest James Martin reacted with scorn and sadness to the president’s use of a Bible as a prop, Donald Trump was apologetic. He had been chastened by a priest. And he turned to thoughtful reflection, not come on. He wasn’t. I mean, what did Jesus say? If anyone slapped you on the right cheek, counterpunch, dominate the left cheek. And so Trump dismissed and tore into James Martin.
S3: Today, the Reverend James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author of a book on that church, says a church is not a photo op. The religion is not a political tool and God is not a plaything. He’s among some religious leaders who are very critical of that visit. What’s your response?
S4: Well, my response is simple. Most religious leaders loved it. I heard Franklin Graham this morning thought it was great. I heard many other people think it was great. And it’s only the other side that didn’t like it. You know, the opposing the opposition party as the expression goes.
S1: Father Martin joins me next to talk about our president, our moment and the morality and imperative of anti-racism.
S5: When President Trump visited St. John’s Episcopal Church for what is, let’s be clear, a photo op. The Episcopal bishops objected when he visited St. John Paul, the second national shrine in Washington, D.C. The Catholic archbishop of Washington, Wilton Gregory, said, I find it baffling and reprehensible that any Catholic facility would allow itself to be so egregiously misused or manipulated in a fashion that violates our religious principles. When Father James Martin, a Jesuit priest and editor at America magazine, tweeted, Let me be clear, this is revolting. The Bible is not a prop. A church is not a photo op. Religion is not a political tool. And God is not a play thing. The president brushed him off as a member of the opposition. James Martin is here. I want to talk about Trump’s recent dalliances with showy Christianity and also what he’s been writing about, which is how the Catholic Church and people of faith might deal with our current moment and racism in policing in the United States. Thanks for joining me, Father Martin. My pleasure. So people should know and there is a couple of St. Johns involved, although there is, of course, one St. John. What was the Episcopal Church? And that is where he cleared out protesters to hold a Bible in front of. And then there is a shrine called St. John Paul, the second where he again staged a photo op before signing a statement on religious liberty later in the day. But I’m not clear that shrine that is not maintained by the church. Is that right?
S6: It’s kind of complicated. It is a shrine to John Paul the second. So it’s a use and love story. It’s actually very nice. There’s a lot of nice chapels in there. But it is owned by the Knights of Columbus and it’s in the Archdiocese of Washington. But the Archdiocese of Washington doesn’t run it. Essentially, it’s independently run. And that’s why Archbishop Gregory, at those strong words about a number of people, thought that it must have been that it must have been approved by the archbishop. But, you know, he made it clear that it was not approved by him.
S5: Did the Catholics sort of hold their tongue when he was visiting the Episcopal Church? Just thinking, OK, that’s their that’s their thing, not ours?
S6: No, this Catholic. Sure. And many Catholics found it really appalling to go back to you. Remember what he did? He cleared out by force using tear gas, apparently at the instigation of the attorney general, peaceful protesters in front of the church, including a. Basketball priest and a seminarian to walk over with the Bible, which he held up and said some variation of America is the greatest country in the world. And then walked away. And so it was a it was a photo op that was using the Bible as a prop. It was use religion as a kind of political tool. And it was using God as this sort of plaything to be, you know, used by him and brought in and out when when he needed to. So I really found that spectacle pretty disgusting.
S5: So in your latest column, the Holy Spirit is moving us to act against racism. This I want to I want to talk about that. And I’ll lead with a quote, which is you talk about revealing the culture of white supremacy, a culture exacerbated by our president, encouraged by his dog whistle, appeals to racist ideas and egged on with his reprehensible comment last week, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. So this was written. This went to press and I think it published even before he staged that photo op. You were already taking umbrage at what the president was doing at this moment that called upon us to have leadership and morality. And it seemed like not only was he not offering leadership, he was making immoral statements that exacerbated the situation.
S6: I think that’s correct. And I have to say, you know, I really don’t speak about politics very often. In fact, I try almost never to. I I will be very careful out not even saying the words Democrat or Republican or President Trump or. But, you know, in this situation, when the president was doing something that I thought was really immoral and inciting violence, I mean, when the looting starts, the shooting starts with which the next day he explained away by saying, oh, I meant something different. But I think people know what he meant. I found really awful. And I thought, well, I can’t be silent about this any longer. So in this particular case, I felt it was important to. To sort of opine on that stuff.
S5: Now, in that article, you do cop to not only your specific white privilege as a white person, but as a Jesuit. If people don’t know, not only did the Jesuits own slaves. I mean, there is a through line to the prominence of the Jesuits, especially in America. They founded and run one of the greatest universities in the world, Georgetown University, that was funded by a notorious slave sale in 1838. So, I mean, there’s no way to adequately own all of the history that you and your organization and your race and your creed have in terms of racism in this country. But at least you tried to grapple with it to some extent.
S6: Yeah, I mean, there’s only so much you can say in a paragraph. But I thought it was important to say, you know, Crystal, I’m white and all that goes with that. I’m Catholic. And, you know, I think the church has been very strong recently about racism, particularly John Paul the Second and Benedict and Pope Francis, I mean, really strong. And so the bishops, but in the past, not so strong and in effect, you know, colluding with racist ideas and racist policies. And then, yeah, the Jesuits I’m a member of the Jesuit order and we owned slaves and bought and sold them, as you said, in order to, you know, partially at least fund Georgetown University, which is something that we’re coming to grips with. There’s a I think it’s called the I think it’s something like the Slavery and Reconciliation Project at Georgetown. So, yeah, I think it’s important to own that. And also in that piece, what I really tried to do is point people to African-American Catholics who are very, very strong on these issues. You know, better to listen to them than to me.
S5: So I want to ask you about your theological opinion of some of the very fine grained aspects of our current moment. So here’s one. There is the notion that not only do we need to speak out against racism and people who are racist or act in racist ways, and it certainly seems that, you know, choking and you make an analogy to Jesus suffering on the cross. And if that moves you, how could you not be moved by the side of poor George Floyd being choked and parched and and killed? But there is an argument that it’s not just racist people or individuals with the sin of racism in their heart. It’s racist structures and racist a racist society or white supremacist society. That’s a little further than just talking about a sin or an act of personal immorality. So I’m going to ask your question about that in a second. But first, let me just stop here and say, you know, how do you grapple and how does the church grapple with that notion of systemic racism and a culture of white supremacy, which is a phrase you often hear?
S6: Well, with great difficulty. I mean, the first thing to do is identify it. And that is something that is a part of Catholic social teaching, which is, as you said, either it’s called social sin or structural sin. And I think that the greatest sort of avatar of battling against that, at least in the United States, would be someone like Dorothy Day, the founder of the Catholic Worker Movement, who, you know, one of her main goals in her movement was to show that it’s not enough to simply care for the poor. You have to attack the structures that keep them poor. And you know, the other great quote, which I love. I mean, you’ve got to go back to certain quotes and people is by Archbishop Dom Helder Camara. It was the archbishop, I think, in the nineteen sixties in Receipt Bay in Brazil. And it’s a great quote. And he said, When I feed the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why. Therefore they call me a communist. Right. And so it is this. And, you know, frankly, this is what the popes have been doing for the last last hundred years with the great Catholic social encyclical. So there is you know, there is and a lot of people don’t know it. There is a great tradition and legacy of attacking these problems from. From a structural level, from a systemic level. Racism, I think, is a little more recent. Maybe the last 50, 60 years. But, you know, like, for example, John Paul and Benedict and Francis have talked about it a lot. In fact, Francis just talked about it today. So there is. I think I think it’s a really helpful concept for people. Right. That that idea that what is keeping these people poor and what structures, you know, help racism to persist.
S5: So I’m imagining that somewhere there is a protest or probably hundreds or thousands of them who are Catholics, who are maybe devout Catholics who think that. And this person thinks that the whole system is wrong. The whole system of policing is rotten and needs to be uprooted fully. And then somewhere, maybe standing across from that person is a policeman, a police officer. And this person is also a devout Catholic. And because he is, he thinks that the actions of that officer or officers in Minnesota were immoral and says to himself, I would never do. And also maybe says to himself, but I know my brothers in blue and I know their morality and disagrees with that idea of uprooting it root and branch. How what would the church say? What would your theology say about squaring those two ideas that are in conflict with each other? You know, in a Catholic way?
S6: Well, I think it’s it’s it’s a Catholic way, but it’s also just a sort of a regular moral way. One of the things that deal with that police officer or someone who doesn’t understand structural center or social centers is to educate that person. Right. And so that person may not may believe that you don’t have a good heart. And B, I’m trying to be a good Catholic, going to be a Christian and a good person, but not understand it. Right. And so a lot of it is ignorance. Right. And it’s a it’s a kind of unwillingness to go there. I think, you know, one of the people that has been the most helpful for me is also a friend. His name is Father Brian Massengill. And I talk about his work in that article I wrote.
S1: Yeah, I think you’ve linked you linked to a sermon or a speech he gave. And I watched it.
S6: Correct. And he he also had an article, a national Catholic reporter. And one of the things that I found super helpful and also challenging is he said that the limits of this discussion are defined by what makes white people comfortable. Which I just found really revolutionary. And so we know this is, you know, fictional police officer we’re talking about might be uncomfortable if you bring things up like, you know, well, how do you think that, you know, you advance so quickly? And what do you think about the fact that, you know, there’s an entire black underclass? Where did that come from? It’s not just individuals. Right. And it’s not just the kind of individual racism. It’s a whole system that keeps them that way. So it’s education. And I tend to think that when people are educated, they really can have their minds open. And for me, to the long answer to your question for me, I think what helps the most are stories. I think that this is what Jesus taught us stories. So stories of, you know, for example, African-Americans that have worked hard but have met obstacles at every turn. And if you can if you can introduce that person to stories and people, real people, I think that has the possibility of changing hearts.
S1: So I’m going to ask you about a couple of slogans of protesters or Black Lives Matter. And just give me your opinion or what you think the church says about it. How you say about minister to me is what I’m saying. One is this silence equals violence. What do you think of that?
S6: I, I don’t know. It’s hard for me especially to react. I’m not sure. I’ll be honest. I’m not sure I understand what that means. What does that mean?
S1: I think that means standing the idea of standing aside and doing nothing or saying nothing is perpetuating the harm and perpetuating the violence.
S6: I mean, I would say in general, that’s accurate. I mean, it’s it’s ironic. You know, when I think of silence, I think of prayer. Right. So I don’t think prayer relates to violence, but I think I think not doing something and not standing up for people. Yes. Can lead to violence. I don’t think it always does. I mean, if you’re you know, if you’re if look, you’re talking to a Catholic, if you’re a nun and a contemplative order in your brain for these people, I don’t think that leads to violence. But in general, I understand that the importance of that, say, other than BLM or some.
S5: All right, P George Floyd, the most prominent piece of graffiti is HCB, which stands for either all cops are bad or all cops are. And then not nice word. I do want to say to a priest, but you know what I’m going for. But what about this idea? All cops are bad, even if maybe the person expressing it doesn’t literally mean it. Or or maybe they do. Maybe. The point is talking about if you are involved and in any way upholding the system your bad and don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt of being a good person. What would you say about that?
S6: I don’t agree with all cops are bad because all cops are not bad. I mean, that’s so I hate to say it and I don’t mean to criticize you, but I think sometimes these slogans, they can be helpful in terms of galvanizing us, but sometimes they’re not accurate. So, for example, silence doesn’t always lead to violence. Silence. Believe the prayer and solidarity. All cops clearly are not bad. I mean, I’m a police officer. My family is not bad. You know, if you want to say the system is bad or the system is corrupt, I would agree with that.
S5: But then what does it lead one to do to act about that?
S6: Well, I think that depends on who you are, right? I mean, there’s a concept in and Jesuit spirituality called discernment. So there’s not one size fits all. All right. So what if you’re you know what if you are an eighty five year old homebound person? What can you and you’re you’re disabled. What can you do? You can do something different then and then. Then a sort of able bodied young person, you know, of means. All right. What is but what does it mean for the what is the African-American person feel called to do? It might be different than someone else feels called to do. So. I think you you try to do what you can where you are. Right. Does it mean that everybody has go out protests on the streets? Not necessarily. Not the way I see it, you know, could be someone who’s working behind the scenes. So but I think everyone has to do something and certainly everyone can educate themselves. You know, I think they the metanoia or the conversion of minds and hearts really comes from educating oneself and opening oneself up. Look, this is one reason Jesus taught in stories, all right? When he is asked what is the kingdom of God? He doesn’t say, well, you’re the teacher. He doesn’t put out PowerPoint presentation and say, here’s the ten things that make up the kingdom of God. He said, it’s like a mustard seed that grows. Or when he’s asked, who is my neighbor? Here’s an important one for today. He doesn’t say, here are the top five things that make a neighbor. He says, let me tell you a story about a man who went down to Jericho and he tells the story of the Good Samaritan. So it’s stories for me that really convert. And I think everyone, you know, no matter who you are, I think this is really key. Everyone can open themselves up to stories and the individuals and the people because, you know, like this this fictional eighty five year old disabled, homebound man might not know what African-American people, but he can certainly read about them and learn about them and try the best he can to to open his mind.
S1: What about the idea that some amount of rage, but beyond rage, some amount of destruction? I’m not talking about ripping off laptops from the Microsoft store, but some amount of destruction, fire, perhaps danger.
S5: That makes the masses of Americans pay attention is actually good and necessary for the ultimate goal of concentrating the public.
S6: You know, I have to say, just to be honest with you, I really struggle with that. And I’ve been thinking about that a lot. My great hero in all of this, like a lot of people, is the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King. Who is an apostle of nonviolence, and I have to say I, I try to follow that the pope today talked about nonviolence. I by the same token, you know, you look at something like the Stonewall riots, right. Which, you know, where were the, you know, gay men and trans people and I assume lesbians and, you know, the LGBT community at Stonewall, you know, rioted. Right. And it was violent. And that’s one of the things that led to the current sort of understanding of LGBT people and and their sort of greater welcome in the society, which is one of my ministries, by the way. So, you know, it’s I’ll just say this, I struggle with that. I would say I think it has to be seen in a context. I’m not excusing violence, but I can say that, you know, I try to understand I’m not African-American. I try to understand the rage. This is 400 years of pent up rage. So those are the things I’m struggling with. But I would say for me right now, I opt for nonviolence.
S1: Is there a breaking point or is there a series of events that you envision might tip you to the other side?
S6: Well, I mean, I think we’ve already seen lots of lots of occasions of violence and people being harmed physically. People’s livelihoods being destroyed. But again, I would say two things. One, I think you need to ask an African-American how they feel about that. I think that’s the first thing. And two, I think we need to say this in a context. I think it’s distracting, basically. I think what we need to be focused on is George Floyd. And where that came from and the violence against him and the taking of his life. So I’ll just be honest with you. And this is a this is a very sort of honest answer. I struggle with that. I’m struggling with that right now. But I said, as I said before, I asked right now for nonviolence and all. And so did all my heroes. I mean, most importantly, most importantly, Jesus. Well, look. Hey, Jesus. When he was angry, turned over the tables in the temple and made the gospels say a whip of cords and drove the money changers out. So he was physical in his response to what he saw as the desecration of the temple. And frankly, you know, there is something that is that that is just as sacred, if not more sacred, which is a man’s life which was being desecrated. Right. So we have to remember these things. We can’t you know, the Gospels and Jesus, as Jesus’s example is sort of very multi bailout. Yes, he’s non-violent. He doesn’t respond in terms of the crucifixion, but he turns those tables that when he makes a whip, of course. Right. This is one of things that got him in trouble and led to his crucifixion.
S1: Yeah. Did he ever. I don’t know. All my gospels or all the translations. Every once in a while you write and you said, you know, when the original Greek, it’s actually much stronger. Did he ever say essentially that wasn’t his finest moment or. OK, I got an I got my my temper got the best of me.
S6: He definitely did not say that. He didn’t say he was. Also is also symbolic. It was a symbolic cleansing of the temple. It was called. But, you know, he gets he gets angry as a human being. He gets angry in the Gospels. He gets angry. The disciples, he gets frustrated. You know, he calls Herod a fox. He tells a fig tree to, you know, kind of weather up and die. And it does. So he’s a human being. But I think we need to look carefully. And you can’t just sort of pick out one incident and say, therefore, we should all be making a web of chords and beating people. His whole his whole life really was about love, forgiveness, mercy. And the more important thing to look at, I think, for me is it’s his masters of how he reached out to people in the margins, which is what we need to be doing right now.
S7: James Martin is a Jesuit priest and author and the editor at large of America magazine, which if you don’t read or check it out and you’re slightly interested in the thinkings of the Jesuits or Reverend Martin, I would I would recommend it. It is an interesting prism into one way to look at our society. Thank you so much, Reverend Martin. My pleasure. Thank you.
S1: And now the spiel today, a video went around of Black Lives Matter marchers met with the forces of ignorance in the town of Meric, New York. Did add he. One woman urged the cops to turn these Long Island protesters around.
S8: Tell them to call this county. I said I did, actually, I worked for the county, too.
S1: And I am a good citizen. You know, if you go west as those protesters or counter protesters. That’s a little grand. That’s those jerks were were taunting. If you go one town to the west, that is the town of Freeport, majority African-American town. And if you stay on Merrick Road, go past and through Freeport, you get to Baldwin, you’ll pass the auto body shop where Amy Fisher met Joey. But a. Remember that craziness. And now you’re in the place that I grew up. In fact, you’re right near the driveway I was born. Take a left one block. There it is, the house my parents still live in. And they’re not hunkering down in Las Vegas because there’s a pandemic in 2016. The vote in the exact district where those stupid forces of get out of here were assembled was one hundred thirty eight. Donald Trump, 133. Hillary Clinton. That one town to the west, Freeport majority black voted for Clinton. Then you get to my hometown, my specific voting district. I just check this out today at a curiosity. Did, in fact, go more for Trump. Pretty close. I’m not here to defend that area where I grew up. I left for a reason. I’m not here to defend Merrick. I have no kinship with Meric residents, be they. Calhoun, Colts’, JFK, Cougar’s or Mepham pirates. Like I said, a reason that I left. But online, the sentiment about Merrick was, well, I’ve read one tweet. What an embarrassment. I’ve never been more ashamed to be from Long Island or this Twitter user got almost 2000 likes. So my hometown America, he meant stopped a peaceful BLM walk last night. Cops wouldn’t protect them, so they had to end their peaceful march. Nothing uplifting to say here. Merrick has always been racist as fuck, and the most racist kids from town are now in the NYPD. Actually, much of what he said wasn’t true. In fact, all that can be checked wasn’t true. The matter was resolved. The marchers were allowed to march on and they did receive police protection in that march. There were hundreds or some accounts say, you know, 150 marchers. There were a couple dozen protesters. And it’s important to note the protesters lost the argument. Is, Meric racist? Marika’s racist, just like America is racist. The people marching, black, white, brown, they actually come from the very communities that also produce the jeering ignoramuses. In some cases, I would venture to say they come from the very houses, maybe not the houses of those specific hectoring goons, but very similar goons. And it puzzles me that people are puzzled by the presence of such hateful, mocking probabl xenophobes, xenophobes in the truest sense. They just don’t want outsiders coming through their town, even though many of the outsiders were insiders. They actually, during this march, gathered at a nearby Trader Joe’s, wanted to walk up and down Merrick Road and were eventually allowed to. But how could this how could this confuse people? I mean, think about it. Why is there a Black Lives Matter movement? Why do police kill black people? Why is reform all but impossible? How would you think a power structure perpetuates in what is at least a somewhat representative democracy? If there is not plenty of backing from the people, I’m sad this sentiment exists to the extent that it does. I’m sad these people feel so empowered that the cops would back them up rather than, oh my God, we’re going to implore the police to deny people their First Amendment rights. And that should be a non-starter. It should be seen akin to asking the police. Oh, could you arrest these people for wearing T-shirts? But let’s note, these people are afraid. I don’t think they or the whole town should be written off. So they’re from Meric. So they’re racist or engaged in racist behavior. And what I’m from Brooklyn and I’m not. Come on. The lesson is the authorities actually protected the constitutional rights of protesters and the ugly mob was made to look just like that. It should be a source of motivation, not despair, because if we’re going to address and correct the problem, let’s know what the ground looks like. In a way, we are all Merek. Sorry to hear from me, Bellmore. The last we hear out of you want to, I think the better off we’d all be. And that’s it for today’s show, Margaret Kelly, just associate producers from Suffolk County’s, answered Americ. If Huntington weren’t trying hard and maybe didn’t get enough sleep last night. Poor Daniel Shrader, just producer. Today it was all Catholics in Long Island. Soon we’ll be doing Methodists in Norcross, Sandy Springs and Roswell. I promise your comfort zone. The JESTE, the Bellmore, Americ School District. The school district that produced Lenny Bruce. Debbie Gibson and Paul Krugman. Can’t be all that bad. Cannot beat that. Massapequa for Adepero do Peru. And thanks for listening.