Slate Money: Succession, “Good Cop, Misogynist Cop”

Listen to this episode

S1: This ad free podcast is part of your Slate Plus membership. The following podcast contains explicit language.

S2: Hello and welcome to the slate. Money succession recap Podcast Episode 5.

S3: This is when it all goes down. This is the episode we’ve all been waiting for. I’m kind of incredibly excited to talk about this one. I am Felix Salmon of axioms. I am joined by Emily Peck of The Huffington Post and this episode is so big and amazing and awesome that we have not one but two special guests we have calling in from Reno Nevada we have Kathy Baker I you know like Naomi I came off a flight from the West Coast for this cake Katie Baker writes for the ringer and is based in Nevada or California California side California side of the California Nevada border and notwithstanding the fact that she lives in California she’s come all the way to Brooklyn to be on this show.

S4: But we are also joined by Jacob Weisberg of Pushkin industries who notwithstanding the fact that he lives just down the street is calling in from a remote studio somewhere.

S5: I’m calling you from what we work on West Twenty ninth Street.

S4: So Jacob used to run this shop slate and has now moved on to Grand the podcast here things. But what he still believes in more than anything else is the awesomeness of succession. So we’re going to dive right in here. This I’m gonna say just off the bat that no one this was an amazing episode. But number two the amazing this was not in the veep esq lines. This isn’t one of those episodes where like I just need to quote the whole show because it was so quotable like this was one of those shows where like the things that you picked up on and were like Oh my God Martian narrowed her eyes.

S6: We should definitely do a deep dive into the Marcia Logan situation because things got really crazy with Marcia dissing his wine cellar at the dinner. But I feel like first to me this episode was a lot about you know Sharon and that promise that was made to her in the first episode that she was the anointed. And this episode makes clear that she is very much not the anointed.

S3: So this was the episode where the McGuffin finally actually served some purpose. So in episode 1 and I remember complaining about this when we did the recap of Episode 1 in Episode 1. Logan Roy comes out and says I’m going to need to name a successor. And everyone kind of looks around as they’re watching the show. Why. Like why do you need to it. And he was like something something proxy war or something and you’re like OK but explain why you need a successor. And then that creates the sort of central tension for the whole series which is who was going to be the successor and whether Shipman is going to be named as the successor. And all of this kind of thing. But in the back of your head you’re like why does he need to name a successor. And then actually in this episode we kind of have a reason why it might be a good idea to have a successor because if you have a liberal young female successor that maybe makes it easier for you to by Pierce. And so now having no one decided in Episode 1 he needs a successor. And then number two now has like really good tactical and strategic reasons to name her in public for you know various Pierce related reasons. He doesn’t do so what’s up with that candy. What’s up with that Katie.

S7: You can kind of see him. You know he doesn’t want to be told how to do it and what stuck out to me about this episode and sort of this whole season is the presence of women in so many different women and you know in this episode you there is a scene where I think you see just Jerry and Raya and Nan Pierce and they’re kind of the you know Naomi next to her and they’re kind of the locus of power. And you think about Logan who you know has already told his own daughter that even if he doesn’t believe it you know the market won’t necessarily want a woman. So for him to be confronted by all these people who are telling him who to pick and what to do you can just kind of see him refusing to.

S8: So there is this there is this I was really struck by that that last scene where it’s just like all you have to do is make Chauvin the successor and it all falls into place. And just on his face he just he can’t do it. And I was thinking like is this about Logan trying to hold onto his power which he obviously wants to do very much or is this about Logan like just not getting what he calls the women thing at the beginning of the episode when she says okay we’ll play good cop misogynist cop and he just looks like confused like what what. And he’s all guy that woman thing.

S3: No but that was it. Like that’s the first time the Logan has been called a misogynist on the show and in a weird way it’s tough and this whole episode is the first time you get to see that side of him. He’s been an equal opportunity also to everyone up until now.

S9: But now you’re beginning to see Oh actually maybe this is you know another shitty part of Logan is he actually does have the misogynist tendencies and he doesn’t want a bunch of women telling him that he has to appoint a woman let them take care of the bottom feeders we work on that.

S10: Oh OK. Good job Sergeant Scott. Sure. You know. The woman thing. Yeah. They like your politics. OK. Oh yeah. I know you don’t like this but I know I know I can see the logic. Yeah good good. Yeah. My baby soon.

S11: Well I do think there’s this perception gap between the children and Logan about the succession in that they think it’s fundamentally about which of them and he thinks it’s about whether and when and basically he he doesn’t want to let go and he realizes as soon as he named any successor he is diminished and on his way out and will be losing his power. So he just doesn’t want to pick a successor.

S12: But also he has fundamental contempt for all of them in different ways for different reasons including strong streak of misogyny towards Shiv. But you know his sons are our basket cases and he just doesn’t want to pick a successor because he thinks he’s better at the job than any of them will ever be.

S3: Which is why when he asked you. Right. I mean he is better at the job than any of them. And but doesn’t laugh like a hyena. But so I go back then Jacob to the question I had an episode one which is giving a lot. Why did he feel the need to tell Sherbourne that she was his chosen one in the first place.

S13: How how much of that do you think was him trying to get her off of the campaign. That’s what I’ve kind of always wondered like like what percentage of it was but why does he have it.

S3: She was on the campaign.

S7: I mean they had to make a whole deal at the end of last season to you know between him and Gail. You know it just seems like it’s kind of one less problem for him if his daughter is not tied up there.

S14: It’s a paramount for him he wants her on his side he doesn’t want her out there negotiating against him essentially. Like Katie was saying blackmailing him at the end of voting.

S3: So the entire like his in his mind the whole succession McGuffin was just basically a way of bringing shift back in where he could control her. Yeah okay.

S15: He’s kind of a manipulative sadist. Right. And the idea of pitting the three children against each other and giving them all false expectations and then watching them go at each other like scorpions is appealing to him.

S16: Yeah he likes that. But can we talk a little snitch more about the misogyny because again I have to come back to Marcia at the dinner so the Pierces and the boys sit down to this this dinner. I mean what a day. What a dinner. And man Pearce turns to Marcia and starts to. She asks like something innocuous like where are you from or something. And she says Beirut right.

S3: She doesn’t so man turns to Martians. So I hear you grew up in Beirut. Yeah. And then Logan immediately like even better answer the question and just Nan’s face like this.

S6: This is a brilliant actress. I think she comes from Broadway just really Jerry Jones Jack Jones and she also played the president and one season of 24 which is where you know she just has this look on her face just like total understanding watching Logan answer for his wife and then Marsha. Sort of like stepping up and getting a little huffy with him you know right where he says oh she told me her life story and one you know in one night and Marcia’s like if you gave me a whole year I couldn’t tell you my life story and it just it becomes this really interesting window into their relationship and you see Marcia throughout the episode getting increasingly agitated with Logan and being looped out of everything. Right.

S3: It’s super interesting. She she lay locks the door behind the rest of the family and then like gives him one barrel and storms off into the bathroom and and this is the first indication that there’s any tension between them. She’s always been super supportive and we voice assume that she’s had all manner of ulterior motives. But now for some reason things are coming out in a kind of bad way. I mean the big arc of this episode we should zoom out a little bit. Is that Logan has this idea that the family is going to light a turn haven and like charm the Pierces into selling their company in light of all the families to enter upon a charm offensive like Logan is surely bright enough to realize that this particular group of misfits would never charm anyone into anything but he seems he seems to think that’s possible and he gets angry when the kids turn out not to be very charming which everyone knew that they wouldn’t be. But the one person who kind of knows what she’s doing is Marsha right. Marsha is the it’s like the old world connection and she kind of is on some level speaks the Pierce language in a way that none of the Logans do.

S17: And Nan loves it she’s not a trophy wife. Yeah. Mark’s at some point. This isn’t the typical second wife that a man in your position chooses.

S13: Yeah it’s interesting. I thought that was interesting that the. I think it was tactical by Nan but that the credit there is accruing to Logan. You know after after she he gets kind of upbraided by by her and snaps at her at the dinner table. I mean that was a moment where you just can feel being in that room in that that tension after.

S9: But I think that was part of like why the whole misogyny thing came as a little bit of a surprise just because you know the casting of Marcia in the age appropriate second wife and everything kind of implies that maybe he’s slightly woke up in that and he didn’t choose a trophy wife and now we discover that you know she’s someone who actually prefers French wine that she would ever tell him another glass.

S18: Both of you. Well you know we could kind of keep to painting. Excuse me.

S19: The cellar is all new world and it think so. Why didn’t you say. It suits you so it can’t suit me. See I’m not a difficult person.

S3: So Jacob I need to ask you because you know you’re my wine geek list of guests. What do you think the wine that Nan Pierce was serving was. What do you think was that wine that the marshal wanted a second helping of.

S17: Well Logan clearly pours Australian wine on himself. I think you know I think it’s California. I think Logan paused for screaming eagle. Yeah. No I think that was I think that was open season. I think we got a little glimpse of the shape of the bottle and it looks like a burgundy to me. You know I guess I thought of you at that moment and I was totally on her side.

S20: But I also feel like I think this is the key to the episode in a funny way because the Pierce family is the mirror of the royal family. They have different values. They have a different style. They’re much classier they’re old wasps. They drink French wine instead of California wine. They value P HD instead of trophy apartments but they’re just as fucking greedy. Yeah and it’s weird. That’s the ultimate lesson.

S3: You just take yanking money and they’re also like unspeakable. I mean they’re dreadful people.

S6: I mean I thought the interaction between Naomi and Kendall really kind of showed what Jacob is talking about a little bit like it at the end of the day these at first it seems like Naomi’s kind of his better you know she’s working in a rehab and she she’s also getting her treatment there and she seems to really have her shit together. But then you know by the end of the dinner she is asking him to do drugs together and they’re sitting in that helicopter drinking a bottle of vodka and just getting utterly shitfaced and they’re basically the same creature you know stripped away of the Shakespeare quotes. It’s the same thing.

S3: So I mean the way I see this episode being constructed is that you have this like ludicrous plan by Logan to charm the pieces. It all falls spectacularly go spectacularly pear shaped in this in this dinner which is you know the most gloriously constructed dinner in the history of succession I think is really well done. So you get this horrible dinner but then somehow improbably that disaster turns into success they turn it turns out that the very disaster of the dinner means that Naomi and Kendall can wind up like getting shitfaced together. It means that Sherbourne winds up blurting out the fact that she is going to be the next CEO which is kind of the one thing that maybe tips over in you know for Nan to say well if Sherbourne can take over it and I might be okay with this you know. And then once once Nan like mentally is like I can be okay with this. If she Vaughn is going to be the successor then she’s kind of mentally made that decision.

S9: And then you know Naomi comes on board thanks to her you know torrid whatever it is that she did with Kendall. And then once you’ve made that decision you can’t kind of go back on it because you’ve basically mentally pocketed that 25 billion dollars. And so even when you don’t really come to an agreement in the room by the time they leave on their helicopters you’re like well I can’t give up this 25 billion dollars that I’ve mentally accepted until they end up taking it well and they squeeze them through for one last billion.

S15: But also you know what saves the deal is the children going off script and ignoring Logan it’s Shiv you know trying this sort of dinner coup where she says I’m the successor and announces it.

S11: But then it’s the scene in the helicopter when Kendall who Logan has explicitly instructed stay clean convinces Naomi who is the one who has come in from California to to block the deal that take the money and run. Right. So it’s those two things that cause the deal to happen which otherwise wouldn’t have.

S3: So can we talk about the hypocrisy of the pieces because that’s the other sort of running theme is you know that wonderful speech that Nan gives about how money is a social construct but virtue and integrity. And that whole thing where like is it Naomi who you know who starts quoting Richard the Second in order to show how high minded they all are. Well there’s a little bit thin. Is that just a little bit too easy on the part of the succession right. It’s here that you just have these you know this this veneer of WASPy respectability but really they’re all just greedy folks.

S13: I mean I think it’s very accurate.

S21: What really stuck out to me about this episode is you know as we talked about you kind of have these bizarro versions of each other. Then walking toward each other from the helicopter was like the Seinfeld touch great.

S22: I mean it’s so funny. And Papa Smurf holding hands.

S23: But I just thought the details were so it just really showed the different kinds of money and that you know you have Nan who is just I have a friend whose mom is Nan Pierce you know.

S21: And she would say I don’t want to interrupt your tipple well do a little house those little details I thought were like so on point and I was looking up who wrote this episode and it’s why I will Tracey who used to work for the onion and for John Oliver. And so you know he’s obviously someone with a good eye for that kind of detail.

S3: Jacob you’re the most you know what’s the word well-connected among us here. Was this it was this realistic in terms of its depiction of rich American wealth.

S15: No I’m pretty good I don’t think the dinner was realistic. But but interestingly we’ve had two episodes out of five so far built around dinners.

S24: Elaborately at a table. So you know you we have to look at those in relation to each other. But I’ve actually had the feeling with both of them that they were just fundamentally implausible. You know that at this dinner where these people have never met that you know they’d be talking about not having sex in their relationship with Roman and you know just the things that came out of their mouths at the various points the dinner as well as the whole scene just seemed a little pushed beyond reality about the boy.

S25: It’s one kind of logistical trivial concern which is when Nan brings out the roast and she just puts it on the table and Kurt I don’t know.

S26: Yeah. And they all think the rest. Eat the roast. First of all was roast big enough for all those people. I don’t think so.

S3: Second of all who’s cutting the roast and how is it getting passed around and why I’m I do not move in WASPy elite circles but like why are you pulling a roasting pan on the table that just seems so wrong so it’s so it felt wrong but it felt to me like it was was theater there though that there’s something there’s something about like Logan would never pretend to do his own cooking right.

S23: And then actually wants to pretend to do and wants to try to tell her housekeeper to treat her son rather treat yourself.

S15: She she asked the chef to have a bit of a drink with him. So part of their pretense is that the servants aren’t servants. They’re really members of the family.

S26: But you saw the woman when she did the roast hand off kind of have this look on her face like What a load of bullshit. I mean this roast and she’s getting all the praise for it. I thought that there’s one thing I want to bring up.

S21: You know I’m sure we’ll get to. Kind of who. Who these families are.

S17: Yeah. Well let’s do that now. Who I.

S21: Well let me just put it this way. I looked up the Bancroft Wikipedia page and it includes this quote The family members private pastimes consists mainly of show horse breeding sailing and farming. However the family has also produced a speedboat champion and an airline pilot however.

S13: So you know as as absurd as a lot of these details are there’s some some kind of you know weird people out there.

S3: So Jacob what do you think Bancroft to Salzburg is.

S15: Oh God Bancroft.

S27: I mean they’re there’s no they’re they’re real wasps not not semi Jews but also you know this story is exactly what happened with with Murdoch and the journalist as I remember it the Bancroft family was really divided about whether to sell and resisted and resisted and then agreed on the understanding that they had to quote ironclad protection for the journalism you know which were words that Kleenex they were printed on when Murdoch got control and immediately far fired the editor.

S24: But I think there I mean you know none of this is is modeled 100 percent but the scenario is Murdoch buying the Journal the Bancroft put up at least a semblance of a fight.

S3: I mean the piece is we didn’t really even the only piece who seem to be opposed for about a millisecond was Naomi and then all she needs is a glug of vodka and a couple of lines of coke.

S28: She got persuaded.

S14: That seems highly unbelievable. Right. I mean his pitch was just like you can have a lot of money and start over. That just didn’t seem. What is she doing with the company now that’s so taxing on her. It’s not like she has the Yeah.

S21: No Natalie experience you know got being in the tabloid. Yeah. She’d gotten another you know femur breaking car crash right.

S23: Yeah I was that convinced by his pitch at all. Yeah I think what bothered me the most was just and I I get I think I get the reason for it and I think the reason is just to show that kind of money wins and Logan wins again but the whiplash of being on the helicopter and him slamming the window in frustration and then 10 seconds later no I thought you slammed the window in victory.

S22: How do you e-mail. No Jerry structure has no Yan gotten it yet.

S23: And he was so mad and then they land and then maybe they get signal when they land or something. But I just thought it was a little too off screen. The this huge chain you know a 180 change in the decision but I guess that’s what happens when you’re willing to walk away from the deal.

S6: I mean that was his that was his plan.

S3: That’s what he’s the way he gave them. Literally I mean he gave him almost everything they wanted the only thing he didn’t give them was with the ship was his daughter.

S26: He gave away. Tom it was like yeah that’s that’s not a problem for Tom. Let’s talk about Tom for a sec.

S3: Oh my God. Let’s talk about Tom because that is one of my favorite lines is like when it all all of the focus comes to Tom and they’re like wait Tom are you going to be in charge of all of our news organizations. You are you gonna be the guy in whom like the precious editorial independence of Pearce is entrusted and his immortal line really settling this question once and for all is the king of edible leaves his majesty the spinach.

S29: I feel like that’s how they really appeal to the fears really. And on that bite.

S30: You know any a true integrity these things actually exist.

S31: Well just because just this morning I was at the store and I bought a pound of ham and I pay for it by you know telling them I was really worried about the environment huh.

S19: My dog finds other people’s integrity and personal affront for some reason.

S31: Oh well yes that’s thank you. I’m a piece of dirt. Oh yeah. Oh I get it.

S32: But Tom Tom if there was an acquisition then as head of news you would be the guy in charge of our crown jewels right.

S18: Oh well we’d have to see about that. You.

S30: Hear that Tom sounds dicey got a pitch Tom everything rests on what you’re about to say. Lay off. Wait a minute though I didn’t hear. So why’d he stay on as the head of news.

S25: Or king of edible leaves his majesty the which I feel like that’s the one thing these families agreed on was just like Tom is awful and his own wife is right there with him. He they go out and have that the conversation is sensibly about the dog. They’re really just freaking out together and he is that when he says to her like you could be nicer to me and she’s like why you say dumb things and his face just looks like defeated. Just so sad like his wife is not on his side. No one is on Tom’s side but he is very much on chip side. He like builds her back up he says. He says to her you are at the table and I feel like he gives her the confidence to then go in and say she is the next you know CEO and kind of like screws herself but enables the deal.

S5: I’m not he’s been he’s been told that his role there is to have the shit beat out of him. Yeah yeah. He’s attacked by everyone for being weak.

S26: I mean like this.

S3: I mean to your point Jacob about the big dinner scenes. He got like 1 percent of the shit be out of him in this dinner past.

S23: That’s true. The one where he. Then you mean the one where he’s kind of stood back up to Chef. Yes. Which sort of carried over into this episode and the fat in the way that Shiv is starting to get call it out on a lot of things like she makes a joke and everyone’s like That’s not funny chef. You know whereas last season she was kind of had the swagger and you can really see that it’s been drained from her like even I thought her the way they filmed her with her face she looked so pale and just so different from you know when she’s striding around even in episode once.

S3: So I mean this is this is the whole. There was a big piece in logo did that to her.

S25: That’s what Logan did to her and that’s what Logan did to some extent to Kendall.

S3: Also he brings you in closer and strips you away of all your power so he and yourself spike because they all like basically the closer you are to Logan the more you hate yourself.

S23: Yes it really is. It’s funny cause there’s a lot of lines in this show where they they talk about like lookin in like a sexual way. They’ll be like Dad really bent over for that sort of thing. Oh but there is this weird like relationship with him in his kids like I felt it with Chevron episode 1 where it felt like someone who is you know in a relationship kind of has the upper hand and then shows the vulnerability and then it all changes and he really like treats it almost like that. It’s like a you know people trying to break up and he won’t let them break up and he brings them closer and they’re all desperate to please him.

S33: I mean you know Shiv says in that scene where she works she steps out with Tom I’m not even in favor of this and I’m desperate to get it. And Kendall had just said in the previous episode basically the only reason I’m not killing myself is because I’m useful to my dad. That’s the only thing that gives my life meaning right now. Right which of the two children are still absolutely desperate to please him even if they get sort of get what he’s doing. The funny thing about Tom is that he’s so clueless he can’t even perceive between Logan’s real bullying as in the board and the Florida scene and his pretend bullying at this dinner. He PMP experiences it all in the same way.

S6: Speaking of there was this sort of like sad little scene at this at the top of the episode where Logan actually pays attention to Roman and says he’s proud of him for going to management training and you can see Roman so happy that his dad’s paying attention and is proud of him. Then he immediately undercuts it and is like don’t talk about that though because it’s like you’re in kindergarten. So he’s like Thanks Dad. There’s a lot of just scenes where it’s like this could be the dad this could be the great dad. Like Logan gives a toast when they all get to heaven. You know the house in the Hamptons. And he gives this really lovely toast and Connor he’d like makes this aside and he’s like I like this dad like this dad be Dad. You know like everyone just wants yeah everyone just wants Logan to be a nice can just be a nice dad. You know that’s really what it’s all about.

S3: So I do need to come back because as regular listeners of the Slate Money succession podcast will know I am obsessed with Marsha. I do want to spend a minute talking about Marsha. What. What do we think. Like we have like the the the bit where she like with Logan at the very beginning says that he and Ray are going to you know be a team and Schiff says out loud like wait why. You know I thought she was the CEO of the rival company but it’s Marsha who like we get the cutaway and she’s like narrowing her eyes like Marsha is clearly upset about something here and there’s there’s tensions between them and she’d make trouble kind of she seems to be happier in the P.S. house drinking the Romney content than in the Logan house drinking and screaming eagle eyed No. Like what. What do you think is going on.

S6: I mean what is Marcia’s end game. I thought she is upset lately because she feels like she doesn’t have. She’s not Logan’s. She’s just like another child. She’s not Logan’s number one you know. He doesn’t confide in her. He snaps at her at the dinner because she says like as an aside. Like is that true about you know Shiv and he kind of tells her to shut up or whatever he says like she wants to be his confidant and he has shut her out. And and that’s the source of her anger. Clearly that’s a generous view. Maybe she has some other thing going on. I don’t know. What do you think.

S12: Jacob Well I think the show is about power and her power is exercised through Logan So the succession is threatening to her as well.

S34: Right. And I think she may be perceived in rehab someone who actually wouldn’t be capable of running the company who’s a woman who Logan likes and actually respects. So if you play out the scenario you know what happens they throw Tom out. Ray is in charge of the news business and then maybe runs an oil company. I mean she’s sort of the only person around the table who actually could do that job. Okay I don’t know.

S15: I’m just I just I think there may be some little seeds planted to this but I agree that we’re gonna see the marshal plot is surely going to develop right.

S11: She’s it’s just she’s just kind of bubbling.

S12: You know and in this episode we saw her kind of with this kind of explosive moment. So we see that there is something going on there but we don’t quite. It hasn’t been quite explained what she wants to happen or what she’s trying to prevent or what her stakes are exactly.

S14: So do you think there’s a scenario in which like Marcia teams up with siblings to do something take power from Logan.

S3: Is anyone ever Marsha Logan and shiv yeah coming together. Yeah I’m kind of like matriarchal over there.

S14: Yeah. Is there any room for a matriarchal overthrow or at least a power grab from Logan I mean Kendall made his weak attempts last season obviously and now is a destroyed human being who poops in the bed but is there anyone else who could do a candle and a bed and do it right. Right.

S9: I think I think if you get like her if you get a shiv and rat and then and Jerri and all of the actually competent women together maybe maybe they if they combine their forces and fight fan off they can win.

S15: So one thing they don’t have the goal of advancing women. They’re all out for themselves.

S24: So any alliances they make will be merely tactical as ways of winning themselves individually.

S23: One thing I was trying to think about is how you know we’ve kind of seen the Kendall arc we’re in the middle of the Shiv arc.

S21: So to me there’s going to be kind of a more concentrated Roman at some point that I start to wonder to what extent is Jerry going to maybe become you know the Rasputin the she already oh my god so.

S3: So basically Roman is going to become Jerry’s puppet.

S26: I hope that’s what’s happening right now right.

S3: I mean she really is dangling him on the end of her guns and he’s doing whatever she says Oh my God. Has control over Roman is something to behold.

S13: And at the same time she’s kind of getting there’s been a few points this season including last night where she’s getting kind of like Logan’s giving her a hard time at the table he says well technically know Jerry’s on the document as a placeholder but we all know she couldn’t she’d be the first to say hey this new government you’ve got maybe the second. She said right. But and there is another moment I think and maybe episode one when he was giving his big succession speech and so you know it’s almost like they’re planting the seeds of her to start feeling a little bit of wanting to push back.

S8: I mean I don’t know I’m just I’m just spit balling here but I don’t think any of the people that surround Logan have it in them to push back. They’re all in order to stay with someone like that you have to let go of all your your your success all your all your stuff.

S28: Confining affably Ray.

S13: Yeah. I love when. Yes. Well I think why wasn’t I told of this. First of all I was on my favorite line. Yeah that was good.

S3: Okay. So let’s do some favorite lines. Kathy Baker What was your favorite line in this episode.

S35: Mine is queen man when she says I’m afraid we’ve gone so Unitarian out here that we’ve given up on Port Jesus and started worshipping Shakespeare.

S13: And one thing I loved about this scene you know at the end when Logan says you want to know my Shakespeare is well it’s funny as Brian Cox is like a noted Shakespearean actor. So I kind of was imagining this. He was about to like launch in the way which was really intense. Yeah. And instead it was the exact opposite.

S36: Would you like to hear my favorite passage from Shakespeare.

S37: Take the fucking money.

S3: I think my favorite line is I got tipsy and I offered him the state.

S38: Do you still mind Felix I got maybe bored and I offered him the State Department.

S25: Connor was kind of adorable. This was the first episode where I was like All right. Connor I see what you’re doing. You’ve got my mind. What’s he doing. Well he was he got tipsy. I looked just like that he said. That particular line was rather charming. And then when he just said that aside about his father I don’t know. He was all of us and a little more human than usual to me. But my favorite line was said by Tom to shave. After that crazy dinner. He said Jeepers fucking creepers.

S26: What a shit pinata. That was like the most Roy thing I have ever seen. It was like I got a quart of Roy injected into my eyeball.

S39: It was the best little dialogue ever. And then she just is like yeah I guess. And then she says. Is there booze. And he says are you kidding it’s just Emily Dickinson and low thread count sheets that aren’t seen so much.

S29: So we’ve we’ve all slept in one of those little low thread when in bed one funny little house funny little funny little with the brake bumper.

S3: Oh yeah. Recipe from Teddy Roosevelt is valid. So apologies for stealing your line Jacob but do you have a backup.

S17: Here’s a backup. Well I guess it would have been when Naomi said Would you like to take illegal drugs with me.

S40: They both on both their minds and he says are you gonna say it. That’s her line. That’s sort of the hinge moment the episode right when suddenly you realize that they’re completely on the same wavelength.

S9: There’s a couple of hinges right because when they get off the helicopters there’s this like very long extended hug between Naomi and her ex-girlfriend and you’re like oh we can see who she’s gonna hook up with. And then she you know that was like misdirection.

S25: Do they hook up to Ken Kendall.

S6: Well there was definitely a snog right but I didn’t understand why he would talk about it. If you don’t want to but I understand why you’re naked in the bed like that was just he just got.

S3: I think that was just. They really wanted to you know push that hole like shitting the bed metaphor would make it as literal as they possibly yeah.

S13: Yeah. The question is like did she like the bed or did that’s Mike stumble back to the bed. I think it was probably the latter but they probably would have made it more clear that she had like been there for.

S3: Yeah. No I don’t. I don’t think I think I think it ended with the snog.

S6: Okay. Yeah. And I guess it’s just continuing successions streak of not having anyone ever have sex correct.

S13: No one ever had sex on this forum and I spoke with one of the writers about this a little bit. She was saying it that’s like a very deliberate choice. And as she put it they they don’t. This is Lucy Prebble one of the writers. They don’t want a show just like tits and ass which is you know on HBO that’s there are many other shows that are having opposite you. But she said that you know that when it advances the story says something like the Roman Jerry is really important to them because they think it you know it’s very true as to how his sort of psychosexual demeanor might be.

S8: You know as the guy he is we and now that you talk about nudity I think I’ve only seen I’ve seen Kendall naked. I don’t think I’ve seen any women naked on this show. It’s men who who get naked. Yeah.

S13: I mean it must be deliberate to the latest sex scene we have is like two people in their jammies right.

S28: I love Jerry’s jammy. Oh Jerry’s pajamas. Yeah it’s just it’s all part of the general Jerry fan. Yes I’m here.

S9: I’m waiting for the you know the mean and ruthless side of Jerry to come out because right now she’s she’s too sympathetic and you can’t be too sympathetic on this show without someone coming out and making you less sympathetic.

S21: Speaking of which great moment where Roman just comes out and says what happened at the buffet line and everyone.

S26: I don’t know and even my acts. It’s something he would say. Well that harkens back to what he’s reading that the Latin on the wall.

S9: Help me out. Oh my God. He’s like truth in my vagina a trump. Yeah. But it was like the truth everything here. And then there’s that like humorless peers who like you know actually it’s him.

S35: Oh Pierce’s Who do we like better the Pierces or the Roy’s Well that’s a good question I would I would hang with man and Naomi for you know a real late night. I don’t know that any of the men his family.

S3: Oh yeah the peace men would like to tell you where they go. They would. Jacob Pierce is a rose. If he had to choose.

S40: I think I’m having dinner with the rose. It’s way more fun you know the appearances you’ve got to apologize to for making a joke about the dude. Second Pitch D. It was a pretty good joke to look at.

S19: I’m actually getting my second HD right now and kind of studies from Brown. Wow. Super Bowl doctor. The second page is much harder. Yeah five years is in conflict. Oh I’m sure. But just think you know once you’re done you want at the waist to twelve seconds it takes to look up something on Wikipedia.

S35: I would be very intrigued to crack the case that is Marnie appears headed. Really. See what we did to get Kendall to see if we can get her you know off her rocker. She’s kind of.

S28: Well which one is more like this schoolmarm ish one who is like looking at electric circuits on her phone. Oh my God when Roman is desperately trying to show you. Yeah that reminded me of the scene in almost famous where they’re like it’s a think piece like the circus is a metaphor for the anxiety of modern life. And she’s like I find it on Amazon.

S35: He’s like No no this is a book written for me but yeah I mean it did I did kind of think I’d much rather hang out you know. In general the Roy family even though they’re terrible they’re probably more fun in a weird way.

S25: I don’t know is shift fun. No they’re all terrifying and I would never sit down at a table with them because I would come away feeling just crushed because they are devastatingly critical of everyone they come in contact with. I continue to just wonder like who are also friends. So they hate you. They hate everyone. Everyone I mean was that wonderful line at the very beginning of the episode where Roman comes in from his management training he’s like I no longer speak one percent.

S38: And you’re and you’re like Yeah.

S41: Because the thing that we have in common and that keeps us together is utter contempt for anyone who’s not us.

S42: Yeah. Once again there you know kind of as in the first episode you saw the scene of like food being prepared by the help and you know it’s not a show that’s going to suddenly have it a bottle episode from inside the mind of the help. You know that it’s almost or maybe it will but it almost seems purposely designed to show that they’re just in their bubble. As Marcia called it in their playground and they think it’s the world and they don’t.

S22: The show doesn’t show like anyone else. Point of view unless it’s working for the royals.

S41: So I have a question Jacob about Logan Roy’s ideology that it’s very clear what the tension is on the part of the family that on the one hand we want twenty five billion dollars. On the other hand you know we have this public trust and there’s definitely this kind of threat of Kay Graham running through Nan Pierce and you know we are trying to uphold truth and democracy and that’s a little part of me which believes that we caused the fall of the Berlin Wall and all of this kind of thing. And they want to preserve that and it’s part of it’s part of them self mythos it’s part of what they believe about themselves is that they you know that they’re very important parts of democracy. Is that something that Logan naturally would destroy because he kind of cares about just making about dumbing down the news and making it as you know as stupid as possible or does he really not care about that. And he’d be perfectly happy to have that as part of his empire.

S24: It’s not his agenda at the moment right. Right now he’s just trying to save his company and he just has to eat this smaller fish to save himself to feed himself. But he knows down the road he’s happy to say whatever because it won’t it won’t mean a thing. And yeah probably his agenda at the moment it’s not politics. But at some point he’ll want to throw aside their values in pursuit of his vision of what news organizations should do which is you know that ticker on Fox News.

S14: You know Murdoch I mean he did not keep his promises a lot. With the Wall Street Journal but today the Wall Street Journal on the new side is still a respectable product.

S3: They know your opinion side it was never respect right.

S14: It was never respectable that wasn’t an issue at all and I mean he’s tinkered a lot with the paper he may be a head shorter. You know he made the new story shorter. He did a lot of stuff no doubt. But like at the end of the day they did actually maintain their edit.

S3: Jacob I hope this is a question which you might be able to answer is the op ed page of The Wall Street Journal was complete wingnut even under the Bancroft who owned and controlled it like was that because the Bancroft on some point at some level were only like wingnut Republicans.

S15: Yeah I think so. I mean I think they they were responsible for that editorial page that wasn’t Murdoch. But Murdoch did you know not only did he push aside the controls he agreed to and fire the editor who was who was Marcus broccoli you know he put in this these series of News Corps loyalists Robert Thompson and then Gerard Baker you know and I do think I mean I think in one sense a journalism is held up very well on the other hand.

S24: I don’t think it’s trusted. Nor do I trust it under Murdoch ownership the way you know I think it was had genuine independence before he by.

S3: Yeah. So Rupert Murdoch owns The Sun in the UK which is the biggest selling newspaper in the U.K. and in the middle of all of this Brexit chaos which we don’t need to go into the front page of The Sun was a picture of Jeremy Corbyn who is the leader of the opposition with the headline. Is this the most dangerous chicken in Britain. And everyone’s sort of like Oh that’s very Murdoch and he’s like being very political. And what no one realized was that there’s this Scottish version of the song which only comes out in Scotland and the front page of the Scottish Sun was Floppy. Johnson can’t get an election. And and I think what that just goes to prove certainly for Murdoch. But I think also for Logan is that yeah you know I’m not ideological you know I am going to give my readers what they want. You know even if it’s the same paper in two different nations and I feel like on some level Logan’s happy to give the pieces the editorial independence because he doesn’t actually care about it that much. Yeah.

S17: I have one. One more footnote for you Felix.

S5: The book Roman was referring to I think is a real book that he really read and I think it’s Jennifer Egan’s The Invisible Circus which I read a long time ago but I vaguely remember what he said about it was accurate in that it’s about a family and there too it takes place in two different time period. Oh wow. And it’s and it’s like a thing about two sisters and the one’s going back to figure out why the other one committed suicide. And I think it’s a little bit of probably a joke and screenwriters but I think there’s he wasn’t bullshitting.

S13: He just had it a little wrong succession screenwriters join me in the. Jennifer you can hire. I love it.

S38: OK.

S3: So yeah. Is there anywhere for this season to go. I mean this is this is also what happened in season one right is that you get this big question like you know which then gets resolved in Episode 4 Episode 5 and the like what happens now. And the big question was like Is he going to be able to bypass the great white whale and now he seems to have both Pierce and that you know cousin Greg is turning up with champagne.

S26: Oh my God Gregory what do you think. Gregory.

S3: What’s happened to Gregory. What. Well he got promoted because he wound up blackmailing for now. He’s now.

S26: Gregory he comes in and he has the move where kind of like takes his glove off and he looks. I mean it’s that’s what happens when you wake up in that apartment every day it changes you you know. I can’t wait to see what else Gregory has up his sleeve.

S43: Huh. Oh my God you guys you can’t. You did it. Yeah. Congratulations. Hey thanks man. Yeah hello. Great. I’m actually going by Gregory now but uh yeah no matter. Thank you Richard. How are you Marsha. Good thanks. And how was it was it was awesome.

S10: Yeah it was eventful. Yeah it was good. It’s good. Nice of you to come by then.

S43: No worries. This is huge for us and this like saves us maybe from the take over Greg. Hey Gregory.

S44: Have a drink. Have a drink. You beautiful Ichabod Crane Fuck you.

S45: Yeah. Oh well. Oh I I got to say. Well done. You won.

S46: Yeah. Yeah. Money wins. Here’s to us. Here’s.

S21: That scene you know the way it ended after that. By Greg Gregory. It was so brutally just devastating that you know the toast and then Logan immediately just puts his drink down turns away and goes up the stairs and that’s the celebration of the of the family and everyone’s just sitting there you know hating life you know quite the ending.

S47: But it did feel almost like a little bit of a midseason you know filled up finale but it seems like there’s gonna be a whole next cycle of story.

S48: Yeah. It to you halfway through it right. Yeah. All right. All right. See you next week on Slate. Succession.