Succession: “Clown Town”

Listen to this episode

S1: Guys, this is succession. This is HBO, if you don’t want to hear me talking about Logan Roy talking about. Then don’t listen to this, there are bad language words in this show.

S2: Hello and welcome to Clown Town, my Hulk

S1: to the Clown Town.

S3: You have to say that on every episode going forward, sorry,

S1: this is late morning succession, I’m Felix Salmon the vaccine. I’m here with Emily Peck of fundraise. Hello? And he said, How happy are we? Emily we are here with Taffy Brodesser-Akner herself. Delightful. Yeah, in Clown Town.


S2: Well, it’s good

S4: to be here. Is this a nice place where I don’t have to pretend to? Like Hamilton,

S1: Taffy is our favorite person and used to be a journalist and is now incredibly powerful and important in making TV shows on the streets of New York. Congratulations Taffy, your book is in production and it’s being executive produced by you and written by you.

S4: It sure is.

S1: Is kind of amazing.

S4: I tried to star in it. They weren’t having it. There are safeties in place to prevent that from happening.

S1: Can you can you do like an Alfred Hitchcock style cameo somewhere?

S4: I’m trying, man.


S1: But can you be one of the supermodels doing like this?

S4: I will. I will be one of the supermodels in the Supermodel Fight Club. Spoiler.

S1: So, yeah, we are going to be talking about episode six of Succession with the one and only Taffy Brodesser-Akner coming up after this. Let’s talk about fascists on the telly.


S4: I love the fascists.

S1: Gerard Minkin, it’s like Taffy is smiling here. She’s like, Oh my God, Jared Mink. And he’s kind of hot.

S4: It’s that I like a new nickname for Hitler. I I can’t believe I’ve traveled all these years and not just said H.

S1: H is so good.


S4: You know how many nicknames I have for Hitler?

S1: How many nicknames do you have for Hitler?

S4: Plenty. And never once did I just think to say H.

S2: Seriously, me, I just I don’t have a lot of boundaries. St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Schumacher. I’ll borrow from anyone. And you know, if Franco or H or Travis Bickle had a good pitch, fuck it. I’m a man for all seasons.

S1: What a great fucking line.

S4: There is the whole thing. This is what I was thinking of, as now a person in the briefly in the business of making television is, do you know how hard it is to have a great line every three seconds? It’s like it’s like the way 30 Rock had just so many jokes. The lines are insane.


S3: They do a good job with the lines.

S1: But it’s also I mean, this is obviously way I love Succession and veep and shows of that ilk of which there are not many, but it’s a highly managed mode of television, right? Normal human beings do not speak like this. Like even Tom Wims, Ganz has these amazing one liners that he drops like out of nowhere. Like, if you’re still on contraception, it’s just like throwing so much cake batter with a brick wall and you’re I don’t know how long it took someone in the writers room to come up with that line, but it’s definitely not a line that, like Tom Lamb’s scans could come up with on the, you know, right moment.


S4: And these people can’t say things like this.

S3: Is that a reason to maybe criticize the writing in that all the characters have these amazing one liners that kind of all sound the same? Or is that the style of succession where everyone talks in this certain in the certain quick witted way

S1: that everyone,

S4: everyone kind of has the same personality because it’s in real life like one person stammers and can’t think of how to respond to that. And except that, I do think that’s great take if you take the whole of Logan’s lines there spoken as if they’re wise, but they’re so stupid like things, he says, like the metaphors he conjures, are only sometimes even understandable. And because of the way everybody understands them, it almost asks us to not be critical of them. But it’s like


S3: he’s like, supposed to be the smartest, most powerful guy. So like anything he says is the smartest, bestest thing, even though what he says is nonsense, which is kind of a truism in the real world, too, right? Right?

S1: He doesn’t need he doesn’t need to prove that he’s clever, right? He has nothing to prove to anyone. And so like the verbal jousting that everyone else in indulges in is kind of beneath him, and he watches them all do it. And there’s that like, there’s that wonderful like half smile on his face that we last saw at the end of season two, when Kendall Light did his Big Mike drop moment. And he does it again in this episode. When Menken does, he’s like, Fuck and Logan’s a dinosaur speech. And like Logan’s, just like, Yeah, these guys, they’re all beneath me, and I get to just kind of smile as I watch them jostle for position and I can, as Taffy says, they like really kind of dumb things like, there’s that wonderful bit where he’s basically telling Shiv the pivot that she wants is not going to happen, right? The what she wants is the 18 to pivot from the Republicans to the Democrats. And he just like randomly says, like, no, we have to find a Republican here because quote, we could fall apart and hand it to the fuck fuck. But if you go


S2: and you’re like,

S1: Oh, fuck donkey gang, it’s like, it is like the least intelligent thing that anyone has said on succession. But like, yeah.

S4: But it also makes sense, right? Like, yeah, I actually this is actually I am going to say as someone who tries to write smart sentences that the thing you said before about the cake batter to the brick wall is actually something that I think came naturally in a first or second round of pitches for that one, because I think these people are so happy. The writers are so tapped into truth like the truth of. Of reality in a way that is mind boggling to me and was most evident in this episode, by the way, Tom talked about eating the omelet. Like, yeah, when you have a bad omelet, you start it like Afghanistan, like you start in the middle and you make inroads. Like, there is a way of eating a terrible diner omelet where you start with the least disappointing part and you just start to make compromises. And to put that into words, it would take me about three kajillion words to express that. And he’s just doing that.


S2: So according to Steven, my prison consultant, this is, you know, this is kind of what the food is like inside. I’m in training. How’s your omelet? That’s not yeah, making some inroads was actually glad you called Tom. It’s like Afghanistan, you have to start in the center there and you establish a base of operations and you have to kind of move out. OK, I’m sure more territory.

S3: I thought this was like the Tom’s Diner episode because there’s two pivotal scenes they’d both take place in the diners. The Kendall Diner is kind of nice. The Greg Diner is like a nightmare place, though I thought it all looked delicious.


S4: I mean, the camel’s labia hamlet

S1: in the diner talking, talking to Kendall has this amazing line where he goes. I have of late decided not to try too much with hope, which is number one, a wonderful line. Number two, it’s like, this is our first hint that, like Tom is actually familiar with Shakespeare. You know, it’s an obvious echo of Hamlet basically saying the same thing at much greater length.

S3: I love Tom in this episode. He was so there is so much depth and sadness in his eyes and, like he and Greg, continue to have their little psychosexual deep romantic relationship. And and it went so deep in this one, and I don’t really understand, and maybe you can unpack it for me. But like Greg asked Tom to what? Take the bullet for him here, like on his wrongdoing,


S4: which it’s not. What I did wasn’t so you’re definitely going down. Would you mind just assuming my dad? It’s not that much more than you have, and maybe it won’t accrue to anything.

S3: It was a lovely moment and and I thought, given how so initially, if I have this right, Tom like basically forced Greg to like, burn those documents and stuff. So I mean, it kind of is his fault that that Greg is in this position anyway. So it made sense to me that he would take on take responsibility, but that never happens in succession.

S1: But but also but also in like it’s not entirely clear what Greg is asking, but if what Greg is asking is just like, can you say that you directed me to do this? And none of this was my idea, and I just was doing what I was told. And I’m just cousin Greg, and I’m not actually an evil corporate cover up mastermind type person. And I didn’t even know what was in those pieces of paper. Tom’s like, Yeah, of course, I can say that because the whole reason I’m going to jail is take this to take the fall for everything, and that’s actually true. I don’t think I don’t think that this is quite as big of an ask as as as you might think, because like, he’s probably going to have to do that anyway, right?


S4: I don’t think it’s that big and ask. I think it was just a formality and an opportunity to show us this whole thing that’s going on with Tom that went on with Tom off screen, which is that he accepted that he’s going to jail and he instead of fighting it the way everyone else around him is fighting things. He recognizes who he is in this story, and he has decided not to read too much with hope like he he’s just he has a prison advisor. He’s he’s like alternating between trying to like it reminds me of right before Yom Kippur when you stop drinking coffee so that on the morning when you can’t have coffee, you don’t get to pick a headache like he’s trying to adjust for what he’s going to be eating, which is why he keeps going to diners, right? He’s like this. This diner food might be as good as it gets for me, which is a very funny comment on the rest of us. And he doesn’t have any. He doesn’t have any hope, and that’s how he’s behaving. And he’s also this like he went from like Shakespeare wise from being the clown. Welcome to Clown Town, where everyone’s a clown. But he went from being the clown to being to being like the real court jester who really says things that are true. And the most poignant thing, he says is to Kendal, which is Logan never gets fucked and you keep getting fucked.

S3: That was beautiful. So much truth is spoken to Kendall on this episode. It was a lot of fun. Tom says his thing to Kendall. You always get fucked. And Lisa says her thing to Kendall, which is essentially, you’re a buffoon. Maybe Felix wrote it down, but she kind of like dresses him down after his deposition in a way that is so humiliating to him. He has to fire her,


S4: so he fires her notch. Yeah, right?

S3: I think so.

S1: Apparently, she’s a toxic person. She’s talking

S4: toxic. First author Sonia Latham always looks so worried that that’s not that confidence. I need my lawyer in my criminal defense, my white collar criminal defense lawyer.

S3: It was weird how she was telling him like the case was weakening. And then she. So get a good night’s sleep, and it was like, that’s not the pump up, you need the night before the deposition, right? She’s sort of says she

S4: was appalled by how he behaved. I think that thing he did in the hallway was so extra that she just was trying to keep it together, and she was really nice about it. We do not want this to get politicized.

S2: Well, everything is politics. So, Kendall, do you think you’re smarter than me? What do I what?

S4: No, no. Because maybe you are. But I am a better lawyer. You acted high handed and defensive and then oscillated to

S2: wildly over familiar and glib.

S4: You sometimes undermined my status and didn’t appear to be frank about your own involvement. But let’s take stock, OK? Can we talk about Clown Town?

S3: Yeah, we have to.

S4: I mean, that was amazing. Accusing him of being a vegetarian, like it was like every, every greatest hits. You know what I love about succession? It’s the show. Shows are in various form out of touch with the world, right, like they don’t really echo the thing that, like the three of us say, see on Twitter, like the sort of closeness to the moment. This does like this accusing a guy of being a vegetarian.


S1: He’s a secret vegetarian.

S4: He’s the secret vegetarian. I hear he’s a vegetarian. Conor having some intellectual heft with cousin Larry from from perfect strangers who was last seen at that dinner, right? Like that?

S3: Maximilian Pierce Yeah. Yeah, well, they became close, apparently like that.

S4: Like, like two of them have like close pierce connections now in this strange way when they’re supposed to be these like enemy families.

S3: Yeah, they made allies. That was that was a good dinner, after all.

S4: Like, it’s shocking to me that Logan is OK with either of them being in bed with Pierce’s. Right?

S1: I think Logan is looking at Clown Town and just saying, number one, this is countdown, but number two, I’m going to make the final decision. So I don’t care what kind of weird dances you will do before I make the final decision, which, by the way, I think is sort of factually false in the show that prides itself on being, you know, very true to life. I don’t think that with the possible exception of maybe one or two races over history in Australia, certainly not in the United States, would Rupert Murdoch place his thumb on the primary scale so heavily in favor of one candidate? And even if he did, he would not do it in an overt way where, like he’d have a family photo at the end, and that would be like Rupert and Lachlan and Roger Ailes and whoever the like Fox supported nominee was right that the thing about Fox and Murdoch in general is he always like, there’s this thin veneer of pretending that they’re just objective journalists and reporting they’re not going to just come out and say, We support this candidate and you. Fox News viewers, because your sheeple will just vote for whoever we tell you to vote for, like even if you think that you never say it.


S3: But this plot was weird and that it seems the reason has dropped out of the presidential race after the primaries mostly have taken place.

S1: It’s after the primaries, but six months before the election. So I’m saying it’s going to be.

S4: There’s already a candidate, it seems like

S1: I want to say it’s like meh.

S3: Yeah. And the Republicans don’t have an actual candidates, which is weird.

S1: And the reason is like, fuck it. You know, I was the presumptive candidate and everyone was going to vote for me because I’m the incumbent. And then and then he’s like, No, I’m not running for re-election, which is which. It kind of reinforces how big of a deal that phone call was with Roman, right? Because like, when was the last time an incumbent president didn’t run for re-election?

S3: I was thinking, Lyndon Johnson, you have to go back that far in art and U.S. history because I was like, Is this realistic in any way? I mean, it’s not right.

S4: I mean, it’s not. It’s not supposed to be that realistic. It’s a TV show.

S1: In any case, it’s hypothesized there’s going to be this like nominating convention and there’s going to be boats and stuff. But realistically. The idea is that the party will have coalesced around one candidate, and this clown town is the time at which we all in the Republican Party basically decide which candidate we’re going to coalesce around. The vice president licks his lips too much and therefore he can’t be president.

S4: Like Martin Van Boring,

S1: I mean, here’s my question is Connor actually torpedoed by cousin Greg?


S4: No, Connor was never stood a chance.

S3: I don’t know. I feel like you told him he’s considering he’s smart enough.

S4: Emily. We’re not young enough to believe this anymore.

S3: I know. But he did seem to be considering it and like compared to the Nazi guy. Mencken, I was like, Well, maybe it makes sense. Why not?

S1: I don’t think at least he’s not a Nazi. Yeah, I mean, that has to count for something, right?

S4: Dealbreaker to people. That seems like just a point of view now to be a Nazi like a Nazi.

S3: Yeah, it’s an attractive quality to Roman, who seems just like absolutely turned on by the Nazi.

S4: No, he has a business idea. He has actually a good business idea.

S1: So, so we know that Roman is sexually turned on by humiliation, right? And by power in that sense, by being on the receiving end of power. And and so they basically have sex in the bathroom and

S4: he gets away with it basically or like they didn’t. Right?

S1: I’m wondering, there’s a tiny little bit of ambiguity. There is a lot of like hand lotion going on in that same position.

S4: They’re sitting like they’re sitting on the toilet, like there’s it’s in a bathroom. There was something really strange about that choice for them to meet in the bathroom before, like, quick, let’s meet in the in a suite. Come talk to me in the bathroom for a few minutes before I introduce.

S1: So the last time that Roman had sex on this show, it was through a bathroom door with Jerry, and he was also in the bathroom. Maybe Roman just had like a bathroom thing going on.


S4: He has the bathroom thing.

S1: What I really picked up on in this was the, you know, the vice president is doing his best to suck up to Logan because he thinks that’s what Logan wants. And on some level, Logan thinks that that’s what Logan wants. Connor, of course, is trying to suck up to Logan. Salgado’s trying to do like the bank shot and suck up to Shiv, which isn’t going to work.

S4: Interesting play. I’ll put your father in jail and she’s like, OK?

S1: She laughed, as though that was the most ridiculous thing, and then immediately became like the huge Salgado fan in the room. And of course, Roman like accuses her of just liking Salgado because he black, even though he’s like, completely white, but he’s like Hispanic. And then the one guy who refuses to suck up to Logan at all is Minkin, right? And like Minkin, unlike all of the other one, really understands the dynamic, which is that Logan is Rupert, right? And what Rupert does is he backs winners like this is why he can jump from Maggie Thatcher to Tony Blair, right? This is why he can. Like if he sees the mood of a nation, if he sees a politician who has charisma and who can bring the country behind him, then he knows the way to get ratings is to just like, put the full force of 80 and behind that politician, whoever that politician is, and whether or not that politician in return is nice to at. And for all that, he would love the deputy attorney general to drop the case against him. You know, what he really wants is to have a popular TV channel, and that means supporting a popular candidate and that means supporting the fascists.


S3: And that’s what happened with Rupert and Trump. I mean, Rupert Murdoch did not think Trump was a smart fellow. He knew what he was. He didn’t want to. I don’t think initially to be president. And but then he saw the ratings, and that was that. I also want to talk about shivs kind of just failure to convince anyone in the room that Mencken was a Nazi like first. First, that argument’s going to fail with all of these people because they don’t actually care about anything like that appeals to patriotism, etc. Second, like her argument was so unconvincing, like, here is a guy that is a total like racist, fascist, white nationalist, whatever, and she cannot muster the right language. To make that case clear, she says stuff like everybody hates him

S4: because she knows that being a racist isn’t like is not a compelling argument for. It’s like trying to talk to a Trump supporter and say, like, but he’s so racist.

S3: Like, OK, great.

S1: But if you like, if you are trying to persuade Roman not to support Minkin, right? What is the argument you’re going to use, right? Because like, there’s nothing you can say that is. Worst of what? Then what? Minkin has already said to Roman in the bathroom about like, you know, we basically have to disenfranchise all of the brown people. You know, if you go up to Rome and then say, Well, he’s incredibly racist and he wants to destroy democracy and he loves Adolf Hitler. And you know, these things like Rome is going to be, Yeah. What’s your argument against him?

S3: Right, right. So the the actual truth of the of the reason this guy can’t be president is utterly not compelling, but Schiff doesn’t have a better ah, I was just so I was disappointed in Chauvin.


S1: I was well, I mean, I chiffons. Siobhan’s dream would definitely have been to make the case that the clown show was such a clown show that the Democrats are going to win because they have a great candidate. And so what we need to do is pivot and support the Democrats instead. And she kind of makes a halfhearted attempt to do that, but it rapidly becomes obvious that Logan is not even going to entertain that possibility.

S4: But also, Schiff is a character who tries to rebel in effectively all the time, like when we met her in season one, she’s a political consultant for the other side. And it takes nothing to bring her over. It’s like very clear that her rebellion is only for attention, which is why when she says she doesn’t want to get in that picture, she gets her father’s attention and then she’s in the picture because she can’t really do the thing she’s she is. She’s just stamping her foot.

S3: I thought it was more like she’s just slowly selling out, I just got a sense that she has some kind of principle at her core, a little one, a little smidge a crumb and that she will sell it out every time for her father. Like convincing that woman who is accusing the company of covering up her sexual assault or whatever, just selling out her woman neatness. For that, she’s coming in. She’s speaking. She’s the face of that whole scandal. She doesn’t care. She sells out for that. She tries to stand up against Nazis, and she can’t even do that. It’s so pathetic. If I’m if I’m Logan and I respect people who take a stand or at least have a something at their core, right like to be a killer. That’s not how a killer acts like standing at the side of the picture. It’s so pathetic. It’s like either be fully in it or be fully out. And she’s neither.


S4: I just also think it’s hard to like. I think the real thing is that the reasons you should not elect Mencken are not about. About like, there’s no way to convince them. That it’s like when Democrats and Republicans get together and Democrats are like, but it’s not right and there and the Republicans are. No, we weren’t asking that. We weren’t asking. This is not about if it’s right. This is about if we this is about my money or this is about and there are those are two fundamentally different approaches to politics. And so how are you going to convince anybody that if the job is to be the Republican candidate, we should be worried about about? About the kinds of things that the Republican Party has not recently demonstrated caring about, right,

S1: in terms of the sort of the drama of the show. I have to say I really loved the hotel suite when Tom meets Kendall and it’s like, you know, right now, Logan’s picking the next president and he’s picking the next president in like, you know, the grand presidential suite in the hotel, which is obviously the nicest, grandest place in the hotel grander than the random supplicant the vice president of the United States gets. You know, that’s that’s like Logan in full on most powerful person in the world mode. He has completely come back from that like crappy hotel in Sarajevo, where he was at the beginning of the season

S3: with a bad salad.

S1: This had salad. Exactly. And he’s got, you know, and he’s told all of the presidential candidates like, Come bring me a Coca-Cola. He’s doing all of his


S4: like pouring water on his please. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I’ll have to come to him. It’s really amazing.

S1: We need to talk about Kerry, because this is this is this is the episode where Kerry, like I remember earlier on in the season where where Logan hands his cell phone over to Kerry, while the what the reason is like shouting at him, he’s like, You want to hear what it sounds like when the president is angry, like he obviously has this connection with her at this point. Like, we’ve see, we haven’t seen Marsha in like three episodes. Kerry is by his side the whole time and gets like way more lions than she has in the past. And there’s all of that like back and forth with between Roman and Shiv about like what she may or may not be doing for Roman. So like, yeah, what’s up with Kerry?

S3: She’s sleeping with Logan, that’s

S4: what’s up, Logan. She’s sleeping like she is like the US. She was like the insulin provider or whatever in the last episode where they go to see Adrien Brody. But she seemed like to be some kind of medical assistant or assistant at first, right? And now she’s come to Full-On Girlfriend like a slow. It’s the same thing as what happened with Raya, right? Like, these are the things he does, and Marcia has this limit or a public sector that she won’t abide. And probably every time this happens, she just makes. I mean that in episode two, three episodes ago, that making that she did like covering her child from another marriage or whatever, like taking care of everybody, she knows what kind of business arrangement


S1: she struck exactly the right time. Because if she tried that, you know, six days later, he’d have been like, Fuck off. I mean, there was this very, very brief window of opportunity where he needed her, and she was like, OK, in that case, I’m going to get my half a million dollars. Whatever it is,

S4: I do want to talk about the one thing that really took me out of this episode in terms of this sort of realism that the show with the show affects, which is an online like an invite to their mother’s wedding. It was this thing with the date someone has a fancy set like that. So that’s the save the date I used for my son’s bar mitzvah.

S3: I thought about that too.

S4: Like, that woman lives in a castle.

S3: It was just to save

S4: the day using eat like the Eagles for the bar mitzvahs this year.

S1: So OK. One of you guys explain to me what’s happening here? Because I mean, obviously we know that there’s going to be this ridiculously over-the-top wedding thing in Tuscany and everyone is going to be there. But. Roman Shave, Colonel Logan, none of them knew about it, and they were all passing around this like save the date, which was just forwarded to Roman by like some random guy.

S4: He was not

S1: invited. So are they invited or not?

S3: Well, it sounds like Roman then called, Ah yeah, Roman called his mom and was like, You’re getting married and then relays that information to Logan as like a chit or something. It seems like Logan is excited to know about it and wants to go and also calls. The guy has a seed sniffer, a seed it.


S1: He’s Logan only guy who knows who Peter moneyAnd is, none of them calling him Peter. And he runs like he runs a chain of care homes in the UK, which is which is just

S4: spit on Binion’s real touch.

S1: Well, no, he’s not. But there’s that little

S4: cheese making a real person from

S1: that little seen on the television where like, well, know where that googling him and his picture comes up. And then the picture, like the caption of the picture is like piece of money and CEO of Lavender Park Care Homes.

S4: What’s the comp for that?

S3: Tell us about this Felix. What is your and like?

S4: Who is that? Does it mean?

S1: So that is kind. So do you remember when? Prince William married Pippa Middleton. Yes, you do. And and the Middletons were quite rich, but very kind of nouveau and kind of lower middle class and sort of social clammy and because they made their money and trade or whatever like party

S3: balloons sang

S1: the party balloons or something. Exactly. So they care homes is like party balloons. It’s like it’s not the way that like

S4: it’s not a good way to have gotten your money.

S1: It’s not a good way to have gotten your money. Exactly. So he is like managed to scramble his way from his care home fortune into like the inner circle. After sniffing around Caroline’s seat for the past 40 years, he’s finally persuaded her to marry him. And that was that. Yeah, yeah.

S3: Like her, her noble could you?

S4: Could you? I think it’s

S3: great to want to say it.


S4: I want to say that I thought it was saying that is closer. Yeah. Sexual. And I think it’s grosser. I think there’s a scene from the corrections that sums it up pretty well. I think you’re right. I think that half of Michael explain why.

S1: No, no, no. Yeah. Taffy, you are. You are the queen of all things like sexually explicit

S4: what she is.

S3: So I guess you are. You are.

S4: I guess. I mean, I guess I am.

S1: So, you know,

S4: I can see that I’m not dressed right now, but you can

S1: tell us, tell us about this Jonathan Franzen scene that explains this snippet.

S4: There’s a there’s a scene in the corrections where Chip, who is sad and and distraught from this relationship he had with a student, he’s been fired. He hates the student, but he’s also desperately horny and keeps sniffing around places where they had sex so that he could. He could smell her her scent. He could try to pick up parts of her scent and summon her in a voice in a more visceral sensory way. S. four. I think that’s what it is. It’s a dirty show. You own the dirtiest definition unless you unless you know that it’s sniffer is another thing.

S1: It’s not. So I can tell you, you know, as someone who lived in Scotland for years, it’s not like some standard phrase that people use in Scotland the the, you know, Logan remembered from his Dundee childhood.

S4: I think he’s making it up. He’s like, I think it’s I think everything he says he just made up now. And that’s the thing I love about him, that he’s like people I know who get really angry and just and just the most articulate string of curse words put together as a compound word. It’s pretty like it’s kind of beautiful when you see it in real life that the brain can do that.


S3: Speaking of made up things, did you catch how they just made up that thing about the the deputy AG having a picture of Logan on on her bulletin board in her office on the dark?

S4: Find love that.

S3: And they kept pushing that rumour.

S4: And that’s where Kerry got a lie.

S1: And that’s where Kerry comes in and says, Well, it doesn’t really matter if it’s true or not, right? It’s got like truthiness.

S4: It’s not. That works. Your amazing

S3: are people. I mean, is that Trump’s

S1: didn’t Kellyanne Conway come out and like, admit that that was like Kellyanne Conway? This whole thing was all like, We are just going to come out with our alternative facts.

S4: Yeah, you just say it a few times. Like, wasn’t that a whole Trump thing that like, if you say it a few times, it inspires confidence. Like enough people hear it and they repeat it. And then what’s the difference between that and the fact? Can we talk about the wine?

S1: No, no. It’s the German wine manic.

S4: It’s not vegetable sugary. It’s not. It’s the agriculture

S1: the wine is. It’s so OK, so much to unpack it, like obviously having your own vineyard is definitely like a rich people thing. Rupert Murdoch famously has his own vineyard inside the city limits of Los Angeles. I think it’s the only vineyard inside L.A. is called Maraga. He makes a big cabernet, which I’ve actually drank and is I’m not really a big cabernet kind of person, but it’s an excellent wine that’s a genuinely, really good wine. So having having your


S4: own, you have to name if there’s a sponsorship on this show,

S3: he does the wine club Felix studies show.

S1: Yeah, his slate slate many succession is sponsored by Rupert Murdoch’s Media Rago winery. It’s hard to find that actually he is very, very low quantities. Remember when Brangelina had the Chateau Miraval Rosé? And then, like Jon, Bon Jovi has has like Hamptons Water Rosé.

S3: I knew about Jon Bon Jovi’s rosé. I did,

S1: yes. But of course, Tom and Shiv wind up with like a vegetable German pinot noir screw up, which which is a little bit like Roman buying the wrong football team for his dad.

S4: Right, right. I was laughing so hard at his. The interesting thing in his hopelessness is that he vacillates between I should just have this omelet and I’m just, I’m going to I’m going to have a good glass of wine tonight. And he like tries opening a couple of them and he can’t get it. And it that felt so real to me. This and I had a glass of wine.

S1: I just have a glass of wine. It’s clear what kind of wine Tom likes. You know, he likes that like beautiful, high end shabbily that’s straight out the fridge. And instead, what he’s getting is like a trendy biodynamic German piano with the feel of like what they call barnyard, which is like a term of approbation weirdly enough in between.

S4: And I just I just want the listener to know that, Emily says, are appalled at how you know about this.

S3: Tell us more. I love it. Felix biodynamic is

S4: come with this information.

S3: Biodynamic is an actual way. People describe wine.


S4: Felix. You’re saying it’s like a it’s like an octopus’s of wine, right? It’s like it’s how it was raised.

S1: Yeah, exactly. It’s it’s how

S4: do you relax wine?

S1: It’s it’s basically one notch above organic. So organic wine, like you can’t you fertilize this and blah blah blah biodynamic. You basically have to like bury Ram’s horns in the corner of the field and only harvest the grapes at a certain phase of the moon, and the whole thing is completely batshit. But certain people? Like for all that, it’s objectively batshit, really do prefer those wines, and I kind of like them myself, I have to admit. Like if you gave me Tom’s wine, we

S4: don’t know where we got that

S1: it was. If it was all wrapped up in the piece of paper like this combination by the way of like having a case of wine sent to you and each bottle is individually wrapped in tissue paper and then you unwrap it and it says, screw it up. Is it very biodynamic, like only a biodynamic wine? Really? Probably. And probably the, you know, the price point on this is like crazy high. These are probably like $90 a bottle of wine

S3: every year for the funky Germanic wine

S1: for the funky Germanic.

S4: Learn this. I’m just curious.

S3: You know, Felix is all about wine, right?

S4: You know, I now know that Felix is all about wine. I do like that. Tom, by the way, is the only person that I ever see enjoying the the things that come with the wealth and that in very like, poignant to me that like the people who are born into it are like, can’t enjoy it in a way that he just the next rung absolutely can. And that’s what makes his him going to prison so much more heartbreaking that it feels like, you know, a Midwestern guy being punished for the sin of of avarice and participating in this kind of wealth, like it feels like a Christian to me, the storyline. And then he just wants like a glass of wine, and you never see any of them caring about the wine. Like, Shiv doesn’t even have a point of view. She like wrinkles her nose and goes back to her iPad.


S2: So you want to try this, but lurking under our vineyard? Oh, Scruton, oh, black and brown have a chance to smear. Do you hear Boyer’s losing juice now in the Democratic? So it’s biodynamic taps has quite a funk to it engineer by the DNC and the MSM in conjunction. Check out the rest of us. You kind of have to meet it halfway, right?

S4: It’s, you know, it’s earthy.

S2: Yeah, kind of dramatic. Yeah, there’s lots to unpack. It’s it’s not, it’s not floral, it’s not sugary or vegetable. It’s it’s it’s quite agricultural. You know, it’s it’s it’s it’s you know, you’re, you know, it’s not very nice. Is it the one inch of it’s true, we see this a lot this so-called now see if voyeur flames out, then maybe it’s time to it might be time to pivot party. Oh, my

S1: present on the subject of of enjoying luxuries. Logan flies with Greg interesting me on his private jet to Clown Town. He obviously has not given up his jet as per Sandy’s demand.

S3: Yes, good. Very good. They still have the

S4: day and did not even notice that because I was too busy with lines like Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

S2: Mm hmm.

S1: You’re a cheap date, Taffy.

S4: I really I mean that Hamilton line. I cannot get over because I have been treated to a like a lot of sort of whisperings of it. Like is is Hamilton making fun of us? The kind of strange thing that Hamilton does, which is make fun of the people who had access to it.

S3: It’s on fire. You mean,


S4: yeah, but like Hamilton, is this signifier of. Of illiberalism. I can’t I don’t even have a sentence for it. It’s like a signifier of of liberalism that maybe treats its audience as people who need to be educated about it as opposed to the thing we think that we’re watching, which is this that we are all participating in a celebration of it. It’s a it’s a point of view question that I that I have heard. This is not my thing. I’m saying I was I’m always just dumb enough to enjoy things. That’s why I can’t write criticism because

S1: it is this it is this like this. It has become this kind of liberal icon. But yeah, so unpack the the exchange between Greg and Tom about Hamilton.

S2: Some guy with an undercut just called me Soy boy. Oh, don’t worry, Greg. It’s nice, safe space where you don’t have to pretend to like Hamilton. I like Hamilton. True, do we all do?

S4: I mean, I love that Greg and Tom are a love story of all time, like they really are the best couple on that show.

S3: But also what’s going on with Greg? So he cut the way the Hamilton conversation starts as he goes up to him and says some guy with an undercut just called me Soy boy.

S4: I understand that you can. Someone can, someone who understands by the time Matt McQuinn explain that to me,

S3: I think I understand it as an insult from the Nazi white nationalist youth towards the anti-fascist or the liberals. Those are the Soy boys. Like when I was at HuffPost, you know, all the men there are Soy boys right there like these.


S1: Like why? Because there’s because on 4chan or whatever it’s it’s like there’s this whole thing about milk. Which I do not understand and like Soy is like the fake milk is like the vegetarian, though, so oh,

S3: like a it says, Look, I’m quoting Urban Dictionary on Google. So very accurate, very well information. But I think this is right. It’s a self-described feminist leftist who majored in social justice studies or gender studies.

S1: Greg has like this weird, unrequited crush on like Kendall’s PR person, and it’s the only reason why he bought a $40000 watch was to try and impressive. And she was completely not impressed

S4: and she was like, totally impressed when it turned out he wasn’t paying like. Yeah, that was such a painful scene to see. Kendall urge that along and then him get stuck, although it’s unclear to me how much how Greg is being compensated now.

S1: I think I think Greg’s salary has been rising steadily over the course of the three seasons, and he’s now, especially now that he’s done this deal with Logan to become like number two at some theme park in Vermont or wherever he wind up wanting to go. Like, I think he’s now making like a good middle-class salary.

S3: But what I’m curious about with Greg is so he he he approaches Tom and says he was called to Soy boy, which is an insult. By the end of the episode, he has hoisted aloft on the shoulders of the white nationalist boys, and they’re chanting his name. So what has occurred?

S1: Greg, what has happened? Yeah, I just have. We don’t know.


S3: We don’t know. But we can

S4: it. I think it doesn’t matter what happened, except that Greg is no longer obsessed with prison, and Tom gets to see that what he sacrificed was someone who like, he’s so lonely in this episode, he’s trying to tell Shiv, and she’s so cruel about it. She just doesn’t want to hear it anymore. And at least he had Greg like that scene in the middle of the night where he calls him and Greg’s awake and listening like, made like, I don’t know, something really beautiful in a way. And then he lost that.

S1: I did have this brief flash that the Greg story could wind up being like the Jonah story arc and Veep. You know, and he winds up becoming this, like, bizarrely successful.

S4: I think that the show, I think it’s Greg’s show like I think about like the place that Greg occupies in the history of shows is the the new guy who comes in. And that’s how we’re introduced into the world, like in screenwriting, that’s what it is, it’s like this person who

S1: lets you see it in like episode one in the in the costume, in the theme park, throwing up in the head of the costume and in this is the Greg is the only character who really

S4: develops. This is my belief. My belief is that in this show about. For children who are fighting for leadership in their father’s company, it will be Greg in season 12 when we’re when we’re all done. It’ll be it’ll be Greg like it. We’re supposed to think that Connor is the unlikely clown or that or that Roman is the unlikely clown who will get it. We’re supposed to think it’s a fight between Kendall and Shiv, like it really is a show that for three seasons. I mean, the one thing I find hard about the show is that we have been tracking the same storyline for three seasons. The thing that started in the pilot was that he he seems unwell, and now it’s a rush they think he’s going to. He’s named a successor. And that’s what the show is about. The show is about this constant thing in different manifestations. And so you have to constantly be asking yourself, where does that stand? And also, is that like? Will that ever get resolved? I don’t think so. I think it gets the end of the show is when it gets resolved. The question is, as I’m very entertained is like, really? How can you keep it up? How can because I’m starting to think less of the children for falling for it, I think is the problem. I’m having that like that. I think of Shiv. I think that Kendall’s the only one who’s like, Oh, this is never going anywhere. And I think I don’t understand why Shiv is still trying to become the CEO. I think has enough money to start her own thing.


S1: The thing I always need to remind myself of is that like, you know, we had a massive pandemic which basically delayed every year. Succession has been going on for many years now. It’s this long running HBO premium drama. But in the internal time of the show, it’s incredibly compressed. Season three just continues straight on with season two left off. We’re talking like a few weeks.

S4: You’re going to deal with the pandemic. Do you think that like,

S1: no, they’re not. No, they’re definitely not dealing with the pandemic. They made that choice as a TV person. Taffy leg the scene in in in this episode, you know, in the grant in the bar of the hotel where everyone is mingling and jostling with each other. Shooting that in the middle of a pandemic, like how crazy hard is that scene to?

S4: Not only is it so hard, it’s a lot easier than you thought. Those were some tight shots. There was only one shot. Those were such tight shots that the one shot they had where you see this kind of big ish convention was probably shot. And I’m this is conjecture very quickly. And then everything else was a close up. And you’d have to assume that when you’re looking at Logan and Logan is looking at the vice president licking his lips that that might like, depending on how they did it, those people might not have been in the same room at the same time. There are a lot of ways to do this, but you look at the establishing shot and then you look at what they’re tight on and like. In my show, we’re shooting like this wild night where Toby goes to a supermodel fight club in the middle of the night and you have


S1: supermodel fight club.

S4: Oh, it’s like a it’s like it was night and night. It’s a finance bro. Night gone wild. And what you see is, you see, just like a line of people and the the things they can do to give you the impression of a full room. People, people who do this are remarkable.

S1: Let’s do our favorite lines from episode six Taffy. Do you have any favorite line from this?

S4: My favorite line was Is this a nice, safe space where I don’t have to pretend to like Hamilton? I like that little thing. I also like Martin Van Buren. I like I like just someone being like a presidential candidate being called Martin. That boring. How about you?

S1: It’s not me. I’m going to come back to this, but I have to mention the bit where like Minkin goes, this monkey don’t dance. And Roman says, this monkey right here, this dancing monkey in dad’s bathroom.

S3: Yeah, that’s pretty good. Mine was the Anaheim’s Y Ma meets Carthage thing, but I already said that, so I guess. A runner up would be the guy. I don’t know who he was explaining about the the bathroom.

S2: Oh yeah. Oh, and the toilet. The toilet is your stair machine. It’s your bench, it’s your fridge, it’s your lover. It’s it’s it’s your brother, it’s your priest. Oh, and also most Portland. It’s also your toilet.

S3: I love that.

S4: So my guy with I don’t know who was that guy was that guy. Oh my god, you’ve been to like, I like that. The show has no respect for its viewers to understand, like, it’s OK that they they met someone who’s been there for them. It came up and they were like, Tell us everything.


S1: No, I think I’m going to. I’m going to revise mine, and I’m going to say it’s when. When Shiv is arguing against Mencken, then she goes, Dad, he’s fucking dangerous, and Roman says he’s definitely fucking

S2: da

S3: Felix, do you really think there was? They had the SEC like they had a

S4: single energy in there.

S1: Well, they had like, this is the closest that Roman comes to having sex.

S3: Oh my gosh. OK. That’s the breakthrough theory for me. I had no idea.

S1: You know, this isn’t this isn’t like I don’t think they like had actual sex sex in the bathroom because that’s not the kind of sex that Roman likes. But this is this is the this is Roman’s idea of sex.

S4: I do like that they were just in the bathroom and like that. We were not supposed to ask questions about why the bathroom was the anteroom to this conversation,

S1: although maybe that’s part of the, you know, the hotel thing, right? That like in Ravi’s apartment, there’s always like a kid’s bedroom, but like even in the presidential suite of a hotel, it’s not like a random kid’s bedroom you can go into

S3: what’s a nice bathroom?

S1: Well, there is normally a bedroom of some description, right? Or two? Yeah, yeah. That’s kind of just built into Marcia’s room since much. It’s not

S3: there. I miss Marcia. I hope she comes back.

S4: It’s a snapshot.

S3: Well, we look forward to your show, Taffy.

S1: We will try and contrive some kind of reason to have you on

S4: your show, at the very least, are Germanic muscolo

S2: screwed up.

S1: I will send you a congratulatory congratulatory bottle of German

S4: and I’ll be like, It’s agricultural

S1: Taffy. You’re a superstar. Thanks for coming on the show and we’ll have you back soon.