How To Walk Away from an Impossible Parent
S1: Pay how to listeners. It’s Charles du HIG. This week’s episode is about a woman who’s trying to figure out if she should reconcile with her father. But it’s being released, as you yourself undoubtedly know, during a really difficult time with protests happening in many cities across the country and across the world. Our show is a show that’s dedicated to helping all of us become better. It’s dedicated to learning how to move through this world with ethics and integrity by drawing on the lessons and strengths that we can offer one another. And I don’t think anyone knows definitively how to heal the hurt that so many people are feeling right now. But an important first step is calling out injustice when we see it. And so we, the staff of how to we wanted to acknowledge that America has a long history of racism that continues today and that we believe, like many of you do, that we must never tolerate violence. It’s based on the color of someone’s skin or on their background or their identity. We stand with those who are protesting peacefully and like them. We believe that black lives matter. And now on to our show.
S2: Can I tell you my idea? OK. So I’m imagining sending my dad a shoe box in the shape of a coffin of leg. All this memorabilia. These are the things that reminds me of you.
S3: If you don’t want to connect again, I understand.
S4: Please feel free to bury this coffin of a shoe box too far. Maybe so. OK.
S5: Welcome to How to. I’m Charles, do we get a lot of e-mails on the show from listeners who are troubled by their relationships with their parents and in previous episodes, we’ve helped Haima come out as gay and how to get your mom to accept you. And we gave Alan some tips for dealing with his aging dad and how to get a stubborn parent to listen. But this week, our listener isn’t just trying to work through a tough problem with her father. She’s trying to decide if she should keep the relationship at all. Meet Sidney, who’s 27 and lives near San Francisco.
S6: My dad and I, our relationship has like gone down the drain and now he just doesn’t talk to me. And he specifically sent me a text message that says, do me a favor, lose my number.
S1: How did that make you feel?
S7: Oh, it was just like I remember I was sitting on on my couch, like watching TV, just like on a Saturday or something. And I was just like it felt like a knife had just like through my stomach, just like gut twisting.
S8: It was it was just like, oh, my God.
S1: That happened a year ago in Sydney. Hadn’t heard from her dad since then. But recently, the pandemic prompted him to reach out with a text.
S7: It said. What is your status in this fiasco?
S8: And immediately I was like, oh, my God, hi. But he was like I was like, can we talk? And he’s like, no, just please answer the question. Answer. The above question was very like robotic. And it was just like, oh, my God, what’s going on?
S9: Sydney’s desperate to have some kind of relationship with her dad or at least figure out if it’s possible. But how does she get clarity when one day he tells her to lose his number and then the next he texts her to ask if she’s OK? Is it worth trying to maintain this relationship or should you just give up and try to move on after the break? We’ll meet a family therapist who had his own broken relationship with his daughter.
S10: Stay with us.
S1: Sidney was raised by her mom in Florida while her dad, who was an air traffic controller, was always moving around, occasionally popping on the city’s radar. And she says for the first part of her life, she mostly has good memories.
S7: So my dad moved to San Francisco when I was younger. And I have like a lot of memories of us going through the Golden Gate Park. And just like going to the Japanese tea Gartin and like the California Academy of Science. And I have this like, very distinct memory of like finding a stick. And then, like, pretending to be an old person. I’m like, Dad, look, I’m an old person.
S8: And he even has a picture of that.
S7: And the time that he took me to the Exploratorium is really like what I remember the most. It like really helped me get to where I am. Like, I literally work there now.
S8: It like, really helped me get to where I am.
S11: Sydney says her dad was always into tinkering any any taught her a lot about engineering, but he could also be short tempered and controlling in Sydney admits that sometimes she didn’t react as well as she could have. Over time, the relationship got progressively worse.
S6: So I had just graduated high school and we were all going to my grandmother’s house for like dinner. And since my dad lived like 10 minutes away, he was carpooling with my mom and I. And he started telling me in the car, like, I want you to connect your bank account with mine so I can link control what you’re spending.
S7: My mom who was driving was like, you don’t have to do that. Like, you can have control of your own money. And my dad was like, oh, you want to be a loser like your mom. And then we were like about to get on the highway and she just, like, pulled over and was like, get out of my car and kicked him out of the car. Like, that was the last time they spoke to each other.
S1: Sydney eventually went off to college and she tried to stay in touch with their dad. With with mixed success. When she graduated, she moved to San Francisco in part to be closer to him. That’s also where her stepfather’s family was living, which eventually became a source of tension with her dad.
S7: And so they invited me to go to Christmas dinner with them. And my dad was like really offended by that. And he was like, they’re not even your blood family like you have. You should spend Christmas with me because I’m your blood family. And I was like, well, can I just spend, like, a few days before or after Christmas with you? He was not happy with that.
S1: And what is the rest of your family say, like when you say to your mom or your grandma, you know, that you want to have this relationship or that your dad has cut you off? What did they tell you?
S7: My grandmother says that he’s a psychopath and she’s like, that is not your responsibility. Like, you’re just you’re just being a young adult, like doing what young adults do. Do you think she’s right? I want to think she’s right. But I also still put the blame on myself that I am the reason why, like that I’m I’m the one who has screwed up the whole relationship.
S12: Yeah.
S1: Let me ask. I mean, it’s it sounds like your dad is a very complicated guy and that you would be well within your rights to say I. I’m just going to write him off. I don’t want anything to do with him.
S13: Yeah. I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Like, what do I actually want from my relationship with my dad? Because I don’t want to be a person who has to write off their family members. I just don’t want to do it. I don’t want to be that person.
S7: I was talking with one of my friends who is having a baby, and she was like, I just hope that this baby thinks that I’m cool when they grow up. And I was like, wow. Like, I want my dad to know that I think he’s cool and that I appreciate him. And I don’t want to not share life with him anymore.
S11: It’s heartbreaking to hear how much Sydney wants to repair her relationship with her dad and how little he seems to care about it. In our expert this week, he knows a lot about this kind of heartbreak about what a broken family relationship feels like.
S14: My name is Joshua Coleman. I’m a psychologist in the San Francisco Bay Area.
S11: Josh studied and worked with parents, were estranged from their children for a long time. He’s written one of the leading books on the topic called When Parents Heard. He’s a personal stake in understanding this kind of dysfunction, because after he went through a divorce, he remarried his own daughter, stopped talking to him for years.
S14: You know, when you remarry and have children, it’s not uncommon for the further child of prior marriage to feel displaced or as important. And I don’t think I did a particularly good job of helping her to feel as prized and prioritized. And so I think there was a creative time in her 20s where she was reflecting back on that. Indeed, she cut off communication with you. She did. Yeah, several years. So, yeah.
S1: And how did you how did you work to repair that?
S14: I mean, of course, initially I just tried to prove it wrong, just tried to tell her all the ways that I was there for her, which of course didn’t go anywhere. And, you know, and over time I learned that I really wasn’t empathizing or attending to it. She was saying so I know eventually was able to dig past my own defenses, which is a hard thing to do, but to just sort of sit with her feelings and accept it and reflect on it. What do you wish you had said? Like, what’s the right thing to say in that situation? The right thing is to really find the kernel of truth in the child’s feelings. And even if you can’t recognize it, just say what’s clear, that I had significant blindspots at the time that I didn’t see how much pain you were in and I didn’t know how unhappy you were. So I think that that is the right thing to say.
S1: What was the aha moment like? When when did you have the breakthrough that you were you were doing this wrong?
S15: I think I was having dinner with her and her talking about her now feeling neglected and my facing that, accepting it and crying with her in the restaurant. Knew. What did you say to her during that dinner? I’m so sorry. You’re right, my dear. I’m sorry. No, I. I did. I did drop the ball. It was my responsibility to be there for you. And I didn’t.
S1: What did she do that helped you change?
S14: Well, I think that talking to me for a period of time certainly woke my ass up. You know, it made me feel like, OK, this is serious. You know, it’s just not like something you can just sort of defend or explain away. This is you know, this is a very serious protest on her part. So you better dig deeper into your soul and psyche here and come up with something a little better than what you’re doing.
S11: Can Sydney reach the same peace with her dad? The Josh found with his daughter? Who are some relationships, no matter how important they are, just not worth the hurt?
S16: We’ll be right back.
S1: We’re back with our listeners, Sidney, and our expert, Josh Coleman, who have both experience some really challenging parent child dynamics. So foot for Sydney. What advice do we have for her? I mean, it’s a different situation, right? Because in your case, you were the father and your daughter cutting off communication. Sort of told you that, like you weren’t fulfilling your responsibility. Right. But for Sydney cities that daughter like, it’s not her job to be the more mature one in this relationship, it’s not her parents’ responsibility.
S14: A hundred percent agree with that.
S1: Obviously, just saying that to her dad, that’s not going to work. Now, that’s just going to push him away even more. I agree. So how should Sydney think about this?
S14: I mean, the interesting thing for me listening is that so much in my in my practice is based around parents who want a closer relationship with the adult child. And they’re really willing to walk through fire to to connect with their adult child. And they would kill to have a daughter, like you said me. You know, the fact that your father says to you, do me a favor and lose my number. I mean, to me, that’s that’s unacceptable. So I would want you to be really deeply grounded in the fact that this isn’t your fault, that you deserve to be loved. That that you do not deserve to be mistreated in this way is a mistreatment. Unfortunately, before really reaching out to him.
S9: Here’s our first rule. If you’re in a situation like this, it’s important not to internalize how your parents or your kids are treating you. You can’t look to someone who’s angry to determine your own self-worth. And for Sydney, it’s really her dad’s job to be more mature, to be the parent. If he can’t do that, she shouldn’t beat herself up over his failing.
S14: Sometimes parents are able to do a reasonable job and their children are young and and more dependent, have a harder time with their children, are more independent. I mean, I can remember feeling jealous of my daughter when she would go to her stepfather’s house. But the way those things are communicated really matters. So if he would have said to you something like, oh, sweetheart, I get so jealous when you go there. But, yeah, OK. You know, we can you know, I understand you’re close to your stepfather or their family. They’ve been good to you. But, yeah, let’s definitely make sure that you and I get time. You would say great. No problem. Right. But he doesn’t put it that way. He makes it seem like you’re bad. You know, you’re being difficult. You’re being selfish. So I want to make sure you’re kind of aware of that.
S3: Wow. I agree that I definitely to work on my self-esteem and self grounding.
S1: I mean, for people who are listening, because I imagine that there’s some of our listeners who who are in a similar situation to Sydney, but there’s probably people listening who, for instance, are have similar situations with child that they’re trying to make a connection with. And the child keeps rebuffing them. Yeah. Like, if we step back and sort of say, like a general principle, what is the first thing that we ought to do when we’re trying to make a connection with someone who who doesn’t seem like they want a connection with us?
S14: Yeah, no, it’s a really important question. It’s really important to lead with what you like, value lover, appreciate about the parent, because we as parents are just all walking wounded and are going to be very defensive about any any kind of. I know this from my personal experience, obviously from, you know, any intimation that we’ve failed our children or let them down. So I think if you start the conversation by saying, look, that I really miss the ways that we were close and you’re a great dad in the following ways, because the goal in these situations is to not create defensiveness. As soon as you’ve created defensiveness. The game is over. You might as well just pack up your bags and go. So, I mean, Citi might say, I’m certainly open to listening to what you would like to see different from me. It just it. Did your daughter ever do that with you? Is that part of. She did. You know, she she and more recently said that she knew that she had her own issues when she was growing up and that there were challenges that she brought to the table that that probably made it hard for me. And that she also empathized with the period of time where she wasn’t in contact with me and as a mother herself. Now, she could see how how heartbreaking that could be.
S1: And so, yeah, Sidney, if you did go to your dad and you tried to lead with what you value about him and start with vulnerability and empathy, what would you say?
S17: I would be like, hey, dad. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about the good times that we’ve had and you spend looking through the picture albums that you’ve given me over the years and the mix tapes that you’ve made for me.
S18: And I just wanted to thank you for those good times because they really they still like the times in my life that I point to.
S3: I remember just being so happy.
S13: And I just want to let you know that I appreciate you. And I think you’re really cool.
S3: And I think all the things that you do are really cool.
S13: And I think that you’re really talented mechanically and mathematically.
S19: And I think that like a lot of of me, as I am now, is very similar to you. And when I when I’m building something or fixing something, I think of all the times that you dragged me along. And I thought it was boring. But I now realize that it was for the ultimate vision that you had of this thing that you were building. And now I understand.
S20: Your dad is so lucky to have a daughter like you. I mean, what parent would you know, it would be an absolute tragedy if your father you did say that to him and he wasn’t moved to tears of gratitude. And it was so beautifully put and so poignant. And he’s just shift only feel proud of you and such deep, profound love. And so so, yeah, I would I would pray that the that that kind of an outpouring would would move him. I would probably want you to say. And I miss you and I want us to find a way to connect in a different or a better way. You know, so we can think about having a relationship together or a better relationship.
S1: Josh often tells his patients to write a letter to whoever their estranged from acknowledging all the ways that they’ve let the other person down and saying, I’m sorry for the past. I can’t change it, but I want to work with you to make tomorrow better.
S11: It’s important not to make anyone feel defensive, and that’s actually our second rule.
S1: Start by telling the other person all the things that they’ve done right. When we tell someone how much we appreciate them and what we want in the future rather than how we’ve been wronged in the past, that’s when we open up possibilities. What if Sydney sends a letter to him and instead of reacting negatively or not reacting at all? What if her dad sends back? OK.
S14: Well, I mean, OK, would be in, from my reckoning would be some version of a positive response. I mean, I would at that point and I would say, OK, well, good. How about we plan a visit or, you know, let’s think about a way to communicate differently with each other so that these things don’t keep happening. I mean, I would up my level of of requests or demands at that point if I got an OK in let’s say he doesn’t respond.
S1: What do you think she should do next? Does she do it again and again?
S20: No, she doesn’t. I mean, you know, I don’t think that adult children are obligated to keep trying, no matter how terribly they’re being treated. It’s not healthy for her to keep kind of, you know, trying to get water from that dry. Well, it’s not only dry, it’s kind of poisonous to her well-being because she is a consequence of it is that she ends up feeling unloved and unlovable and blaming herself, which is both terrible and undeserving.
S1: Sydney, how do you feel about that?
S19: I have noticed that since he texted me from the Corona virus pandemic, I’ve been sort of feeling a sense of resolve like, oh, like I finally got the thing that I wanted was him to just text me back. And and so, like a thing that my mom has always told me was that he’ll try to contact you when he’s dying, like on his deathbed, like Steve Jobs said to his daughter. I know that. And so like but that’s like sad. I’m like, well, I don’t want that leg. Receiving that text message during the current virus has been validating that, like, I’m not unlovable and has also helped to, like, lessen the desire to keep reaching out and like, keep texting. I feel like I’ve done all that I could.
S1: Do you think you’re going to be able. To sit with them and live with that.
S19: Yeah, I think I I think I will now. I don’t think that I, I was able to say I would have been able to see that last year. But I think now I can say that and I think I can say that because of Lake. The work that I’ve done and in going through gratitude of like appreciating what he’s done for me.
S3: It’s great. And then and also like this sense that, like my when my mom and other family saying that they didn’t expect him to, like, be part of my life, that feels significant.
S21: That you were sort of prepared for it. But other family members that this could happen. You’re saying, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
S22: Here’s our next rule. It’s sad, but you may have to manage your own expectations.
S11: That heartfelt letter that you send it may be met with just a simple OK instead of what you’re hoping to hear. Or it may not be answered at all.
S22: And so it’s important to check in with your other family members and the people who love you to help you set realistic expectations about what’s going to happen so that you won’t be devastated if things don’t work.
S10: Josh, let me ask you. And do you think it’s best for Sydney or anyone else who’s struggling with a parent child relationship? Just to say, like. She’s not going to work. I’ve done everything I should. OK, for me to walk away.
S14: Yeah, it’s probably one of the most difficult questions that either side is faced with. I mean, I think in general. You know, I mean, I recommend that people try for a few years, if they have it in them, if it’s not making them feel more depressed or anxious. I don’t think people also have to make these decisions for ever. Maybe it’s possible at some other point. My life, I don’t know. But I’m not going to keep trying to to have a relationship with somebody who’s making it impossible. And then at the end of the year, you can kind of think about where you are and whether or not it makes sense to reach out. Yeah.
S2: In a way, that’s what my dad did to me, where he just, like, didn’t talk to me for a year.
S3: And it seems like perhaps he just needed that space. And I was just, like, not able to give that space to him. And so perhaps that’s what I should also be doing.
S1: Here’s our last rule. Sometimes the space everyone needs lasts the rest of your life. They’ve tried to repair this relationship is causing you too much pain. It’s OK to let it go. Josh says that roughly four out of every five parent child relationships he tries to mend are eventually healed. But that’s still 20 percent of cases where it doesn’t work, where parents and kids just keep on hurting each other. And in situations like that, you may have to try as best you can to mourn and remember the relationship, but let it go and move on.
S3: I feel like a whole weight is sort of lifted off of me in thinking about him, and especially because it it turns it turns it away from like me victimizing myself, too, like just being appreciative of of the times that were instead of like my dad doesn’t talk to me like I’m a victim. It feels better to not be it like it doesn’t feel good to feel like a victim. Now it feels better to just feel appreciative.
S14: I really I really admire respect that. I think it’s such a healthy, healthy way to think about this city. I think it’s really great.
S5: You know, Father’s Day is coming up. What is your plan now? What he would you going to do?
S3: So I think what I’ll do is I’ll send him a mixed tape bin, like having a self recording on there, like I made you this mix tape. And here’s what it reminds me of. And I just wanted to thank you.
S1: What song would you put on your mixtape?
S3: Oh, this is probably not like a great symbolic song to present to him, but it’s like funny because of, like, the memories it has. So the song You’re So Vain, like I used to say yours. So Bane and I was just like a funny thing that he remembers.
S4: So I don’t know if I should send that, but I’ll think of some other songs that I wouldn’t mind, just as you know. Yeah. Like Doors and glides up. Yeah.
S5: Song is thank you to Sidney for sharing her story with us and to Josh Coleman for his amazing advice. Make sure to look for his new book out this fall. Rules of Estrangement, Why Adult Children Cut Ties and How to Heal the Conflict. If you’re listening to this show and you’re thinking to yourself, I have a problem that I need help with. Send us a note at how to insulate BCom and we’ll do everything we can to try and help. How TOS executive producers Derek John. Rachel Allen is our production assistant in marriage. Jacob is our engineer. Our theme music is by Hannis Brown. June Thomas is our senior managing producer. And Alicia Montgomery is executive producer of Slate podcasts. Gabriel Roth is Slate’s editorial director for audio. Special thanks to Kevin Vendors. I’m Charles Duhigg. Thanks for listening.
