S1: Guys, this is succession. This is HBO, if you don’t want to hear me talking about Logan Roy talking about. Then don’t listen to this, there are bad language words in this show. Hello and welcome to the Mr Darcy, how could you? Episode Oh, late money succession, I am Felix Salmon of Axios. I’m here with Emily Peck, who fundraise Hello and we are joined on this here. Lachy Slack by Lizzie O’Leary Welcome. Hello, Lizzie, what are you up to these days? Plug your podcast!
S2: I host a podcast for Slate, so it’s very hard for you to track me down. What next? TBD but I also watch Succession fervently, fervently.
S1: You’ve been on this show before. It was amazing, so we had to have you back for the grand finale. We have so much to talk about Tom, obviously, and Connor and Kendall and Logan and Lucas, and oh wow, what a finale it is all going to get unpacked right now on Slate Money. Succession. OK, let’s jump right in here, Lizzie. What do you think?
S2: Oh my God. Tom, Tom, Tom warms Gan, Mr Darcy, how could you? I mean, but also but also good. Good job, Tom.
S3: Take Tom
S1: came through with with the knife in the back for his own wife,
S2: who is a monster.
S3: She told him. I mean, she took him to town. Is that a phrase people used in the last episode? Dressed him down, told him she didn’t love him? Maybe she’d have his baby. Maybe not.
S2: Should freeze the baby. Who knows she’s
S3: setting him up? Who knows? She’s not exactly creating a bond of trust between her and her husband. I was. I felt excited. You’re not supposed to root for anyone in succession. That’s the rule of succession. But I was, is that the rule? Go, Tom.
S2: Like, can you read your Willa?
S1: Oh, fuck it. Fuck it. Why not? That’s how bad. How bad can it be? I mean, talking about like we had that great like face acting from Kieran Culkin in the previous episode, when he realizes that he’s sent a dick back to his own dad, this one where she’s like, Fuck it, I’ll get married. And she, like, kisses him and then she gets in the car and she looks out the car like, Oh my God, like, my entire life is now miserable for the rest. You know,
S2: that’s like some real last frame of the graduate.
S3: Stuff, did you catch her weeping at the wedding? A lot of weeping
S2: wine, good wine.
S1: Yeah, yeah. People get drunk at weddings like the drunk Countess was great.
S2: You mean? Well, you know, Greg is right. Yeah. Preparing for his death duty, Ducky. How do you say it?
S3: Darcy Darcy Felix
S1: Felix Dutchy Yes. Yeah. The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg or Liechtenstein. I can never remember one of the other
S3: 12 times removed or some shit.
S2: Yes. Someplace where you can hide your money.
S1: I think I’ve mentioned this on the pub before, but Greg has a character arc and in the way that, like a lot of the rest of them done, he’s actually significantly far removed at this point from how we met him at the beginning of season one, you know, and his clothes are fitting better. He’s more comfortable in his own skin. He’s got not one, but two girlfriends.
S2: He’s been sufficiently corrupted that he doesn’t need a soul.
S1: He’s been sufficiently corrupted. That he doesn’t need to sell these souls.
S2: Bu I mean, he said that the character arc just like it. I don’t know.
S1: Yeah, I mean, if he goes down into the right, yeah.
S3: Mm hmm. What am I going to do with a soul anyway? He says.
S1: Well, that’s true, souls. Souls are rarely rarely benefit you.
S2: I tried to make a list of great like zinger lines. This was an episode that had fewer zinger lines and more, just like devastating actions and and look beautiful. You know, Goya compositional framing moments. And my my list of lines, I think said Hans Christian. And ah, fuck. And that was it.
S1: There were a couple, but there are a lot of them were delivered very quietly in a way that you don’t necessarily notice, like at the very beginning when when Schiff talks about the bigot spigot, that was good.
S2: Figure, it was good.
S3: Can we talk about the beautiful symmetry of I think it was the first or second episode where Kendall tries to get Shiv and Roman to rally to his side to take down their father. And it’s a fail. And to this episode where it actually works and they come together and and because I just read a book about psychology, some in this frame, but because he was able to get real with them and feel his feelings in front of them, even though they’re extremely uncomfortable with feelings, that’s enough to show them his humanity so that they can all come together as siblings in this beautiful moment that is, of course, thwarted and, you know, it’s doomed from the start. But it was so wonderful to see that all happen. Like even though it’s succession and it’s funny and it’s a dark comedy about terrible people to see them in touch with their their love bond and their humanity was kind of nice.
S1: Also, like, it’s important that the only person who could do that, the only person who could bring three of them together is Shiv.
S2: Oh, I was going to say, is Kendall.
S1: Well, Kendall Kendall was kind of dragged along as a piece.
S2: Yeah, but that was the moment. But there’s a moment where it flips and he’s like. He remembers the divorce agreement. He’s the one who knows
S1: that he’s in the he’s in the car, that she is the one who gets them into the car.
S2: He should have known it was doomed because it was shivs idea, but everything she touches turns to shit.
S3: All of them, though all of everything, all of them touch.
S1: Yeah, right. I mean, that’s that’s the that’s the whole way Ms. Gans play right is the low, you know, Logan never gets fucked and Kendall always gets fucked. So if he knows that Kendall is, you know, in a fucking minivan on the way to confront his dad, he knows that Logan’s going to win this. And he he knows that his strategic move here is to align himself with Logan.
S2: Do you think there was a moment I need to go back and watch again, or maybe do like eight rewatching? Was there a moment when Tom Tom flipped? And was it in this episode or was it molests like, I sort of wonder if it was that wedding toast where she was like, he knows she hates her mom, and she says, like, you know, to have the kind of marriage that we have, if that was the thing where Tom was like, OK, bye bye.
S3: In the toast to her mum, Shiv says, I hope your marriage is as rich and as happy and as rewarding and as fulfilling as mine, and I was like, Oh my God. Oh, it’s because their marriages are very similar, right? In that the mom’s marrying this guy. She has no respect for obviously and trash talks behind his back, and that’s what shifted as well. She married a guy that she doesn’t really have any respect for,
S1: but he tried. All right, can I? Can I give you the Tom theory here? My theory is that there are two flips involved here. The first flip is when he flips decisively into Logan like surrogate son mode, right when Logan’s calling him son, when he’s like, I will go to jail for you. And. Shevaun takes this as a kind of smart tactical move for the Shiv Tom marriage, but on some level, this is Tom just aligning himself with Logan and saying like, you’re the guy who never gets that, I want to make sure that I’m as opposed to you as I possibly can be. And why the fact that they marry into this family anyway, it wasn’t for Shiv, who doesn’t love me is for Logan, who doesn’t love me. And and so like, you have that Tom Logan connection already. And then and then the second flip, which I think is the one you’re asking about is when did he flip against Shiv? And his his my kind of I don’t know if this is my like attempt on the season for sport or something, but like I’m not convinced that what he did was true flip against shave or whether what he did was a sort of tactical hedging of the bets in that Logan was always going to win. Logan was always going to do this deal. Logan was always going to find a way to do a deal with Caroline before or after the kids confronted him about the super-majority clause. And if Logan was always going to win, or even if there was a very high probability that Logan was going to win, it was always good to have one of them. Perceived to be on Team Logan rather than all of them being perceived to be, you know, Tim killed dad. And so in fact, what time did can be seen as a way of like saving the Shiv Tom relationship with Logan rather than like knifing his wife in the back? Yeah, there is no way that Logan didn’t know all about the super-majority clause in all of his teams of advisers went all over that all along. And this is and this is the reason why, by the way, you know, Carey was lying to Roman, why all of the kids were being cut out of the deal, why no one was even telling them that Carl and Frank were in town. The whole point was everyone was well aware that the kids had every ability to scupper the deals that they needed to be kept out of the loop as long as possible. Logan just wanted to make sure they didn’t get to Caroline before he did, but because he knew and they didn’t. That was easy.
S3: Why wouldn’t he just convince the kids to come along on the deal with him like them? Is there just no way they they would have because they wouldn’t get power in the deal?
S1: Yeah. And that’s a really, really good question, because this is the most Murdoch of all of the episodes this season. There were there’s Murdoch after Murdoch after Murdoch. Like little reference throughout this episode. And of course, what happens in the end of the Murdoch saga is that Murdoch sells to some other company, and none of the kids really think of a new 21st Century Fox, right? It just becomes a division of Disney. There was talk for like a millisecond that James would run that division, but that fell through very quickly. And that’s that’s very Murdoch, Ian, right? There’s talk for a millisecond let. Mattson is like, I’ll bring you in your crucial to this deal to Roman, but then it falls through very quickly. And when Roman is in the car, he realizes that that’s exactly what’s going to happen. And so and so then the question is why? Why wouldn’t the kids just happily go along with the deal in the way that the Murdoch kids did? Right? And the conceit of the episode is that Shevaun has become so completely bought into the dream of taking over the company, and Roman has become so completely bought into the dream of taking over the company that they will do anything to keep that dream alive rather than effectively. They’re all being offered the same deal that Kendall was offered, right, which is $2 billion, and fuck off and go make your own pile, which is a very attractive offer. And that’s exactly what I would like to speak to James in and to Lachlan, right? They both got $2 billion. They both get to go off like James gets to go off and buy like Art Basel in the Tribeca Film Festival and whatever else he’s investing in. And like, be his own media mogul, Lachlan gets like one of the toys that gets spin spun off, like News Corp and or Fox. I guess I should call it. And yeah, in the real world, I think you’re right Emily that they they wouldn’t be quite as upset about this, and they wouldn’t feel this to be such a betrayal because like, seriously, kids, did you honestly believe that one of you is going to take over?
S2: Well, I mean, it’s a TV show, right? They have otherwise. It’s no longer a TV show,
S3: but also like throughout the episode they’re saying, like Waystar, Royko is a declining asset. Like, the price is falling. They just paid a historic fine. Like they’re going down. JoJo’s going up like, get off the sinking ship. Kids like this is another indication of why they should not. Any of them be in the C-suite like these. They suck. They’re not good at this like
S1: time to go. And Madsen is so fucking good at this. Like, Manson is the only one like compared to someone like Sandy, who everyone is very scared of. And it’s like this paper tiger, but never really bites. Madsen is the one person that Logan encounters who’s like, possibly better at the game than Logan is. And Logan just sees him and goes as I, by the way, that Emily did they call it? Logan chose his successor, Madsen.
S2: Yes, yes. Felix. I was listening to that. Going down the Isle of Food Town, grocery shopping. I was like, Yeah. Can we just talk about Alexander Shahzad’s physicality in that in that scene where he’s like, kind of like with his T-shirt and as pool slides kind of like lounging in his Lake Como furniture in the most kind of, I don’t know, leaning alpha male way, just sort of like, Yeah, OK, we’re tossing this stuff out. It’s so I mean, the guys, what six? Five. It’s just it’s incredible physical acting.
S1: He he there’s there’s a little bit of Chamath in there, you know, with the like, the shirtless selfie is like, he’s obviously been working out.
S3: Have you did you look at There’s a. When they come off the boat? Matins, you know, taking the lead and then Logan’s right there with him and Romans kind of like tripping up the stairs behind them like a little boy. And then when they all sit down also Roman, it’s kind of like down from them in a way that makes him look like a kid at the at the adult table or something. And it’s just so clear like he he’s not ready for any of this and he’s got to go.
S2: So why didn’t Roman understand what was happening? Because it was very clear in that conversation. How this is being. And then he just literally like, OK, I mean, you go back to the wedding that Roman should have been running back like, whoa. We have a problem or did he just think like, oh, my dad’s going to take care of me or do you not understand?
S1: I think it was a little bit of all of the above, and also I think the Lucas and Logan between them did a pretty good job of planting the seed in Romans mind that if this deal went ahead with Gojo buying Waystar Royko, then Roman would be. Golden, he would be like in the middle of it all, he would be running something important, he would be crucial to the whole deal. And so like that was like he kind of felt that if it did happen, he would be the winner.
S3: Yeah, he had his delusions. I think he was like, I’ll keep this a secret and then I’ll I’ll I’ll win this one. He was still kind of like fighting the siblings. But then that scene with Kendall maybe changes his mind.
S1: You could see, I mean, again, amazing acting from Kieran Culkin in this one. But when they’re in the car, and he’s. Trying to work out how to argue against what his siblings are saying without revealing to them what he has been promised because like you know, while Kendall has had his moment of honesty, you know, Reverend can never be honest about anything. I did love that that classic line in the scene in the closet, when Ken falls apart and goes, I’m blown into a million pieces and then she gets the call from lead. And Roman says, Take that call. Leave me here with all the feelings. Thank you
S2: for that. And it took me three quarters of an hour to get a gin and tonic. It’s like, Oh, who’s the real victim? Who’s the real victim here? OK, we obviously we need to talk about Jeremy Strong.
S1: Yeah, we need to talk about Jeremy Strong because the Michael Schulman New Yorker profile came out after we recorded the last episode. Oh boy. And then Michael Shuman came out on Twitter last night and added a whole little extra bit about how that scene in the courtyard was a great Jeremy strong, cathartic moment because he decided he could act it better if he was sitting on the ground than if he were sitting on something else. And so that was what made the whole thing, and he had a breakthrough. So like you, I mean, people seem to agree the Jeremy Strong is a good actor. I’m not going to disagree with that one
S2: credible portrayal of an addict. Incredible.
S3: Can we just take a step back and just fill listeners and in case they’re not OK? Minute by minute,
S1: because Aaron Sorkin doesn’t have social media, so we’re going to post
S2: on his behalf. He asked us to
S3: tell us on his behalf. Michael Schulman publishes The New Yorker, publishes his profile of Of Jeremy Strong, and it’s this really. It’s a great classic look at the actor and his method, and it goes really deep and kind of makes him look like a like an asshole dick. Maybe? Yeah. I mean, it does. He gets really into his roles. He asked Aaron Sorkin if he if he could get sprayed with tear gas, real
S1: tear gas,
S3: real tear gas in a movie. And there’s some quotes that are questionable that make you think everyone kind of hates him. But I mean, it’s a fine profile. And then the reaction to it is just. Outsized, I
S2: would say celebrities need a hobby is basically my take away from the whole thing of like, calm down. It’s a magazine profile. Did it make your friend look amazing? No. Did it make him look like the worst person in the world? No, no. On Aaron Sorkin.
S3: It was a good provia made him look like a very it was.
S1: It was a great profile. But I think I think Al and Helen Petersen, I remember who was made this point that it’s a reported profile in a way that like celebrity profiles and never reported this way. And Michael Schulman really took this like as an investigative reporting job and was like went back and started interviewing a whole bunch of people who, like, hated Jeremy Strong when he was at Yale and that kind of thing and found all of these anecdotes. And we found and and he also got some very damning quotes out of Brian Cox and Kieran Culkin about what it’s like to work with him, which is apparently not fun. And and that then created a whole sort of week of people saying like, Is he dead with Brian Cox and Kieran Culkin have been that rude about their cult co-star if they knew that they have to film season four with him.
S3: It was like brilliant marketing. It was the the most brilliant marketing for an HBO show until just yesterday when,
S1: at least in the big company,
S3: we don’t need to go into that. But it was good. It was a good buildup for this episode in which Jeremy Strong acts the hell out of the role. And yeah, kind of. There’s nothing you can say. He did a great job.
S2: I would say two things. Number one, when you guys are both journalists, you understand that, right? Like Michael Sullivan gets these amazing quotes that probably in the interview process, Brian Cox and Kieran Culkin say these things, which are undeniably true, right? There’s there’s all this evidence on one side of the ledger. The Jeremy Strong is a certain way. And yet when you are the person being interviewed, this is not saying that they’re like gotcha questions or anything. It’s just like, you sometimes don’t realize that your stuff is going to be added to a pile of other stuff. And so when it’s added to a pile of other stuff, suddenly there is a log cabin of other stuff and that forms a readers impression. But the other thing is it’s like, Yeah, he’s an actor. Actors are weird and emotional and difficult, and they all have their own processes. And maybe it’s because I’m married to a director who is very mad, by the way, that I am on the show without him right now. But somebody has to do child care, drop off and. Actors are weird. I love all my husband’s actors, but seriously, they’re weird.
S3: Yeah. And again, he just I feel like this episode was the perfect comeback to anyone who had that profile and was like, What a jerk, it’s like, Well, you know what? He gets it done works except on the ground. It was his seventh take. And he realized he had it to sit on the ground and get dirty. And honestly, I was interested in the dirt part it was. I was like, Ooh, his pants are so dirty, no one ever gets dirty.
S1: The continuity was a bit weak, like by the time he gets out to walk, to confront his dad, his pants are magically clean. Because when you’re a billionaire, your pants magically clean themselves in the back
S3: of the pants in the car.
S1: But but the but the other thing is that it was just beautifully shot that scene that still from that scene, just like ricocheted around Twitter. Mark, my lord has to get like at least as much credit as Jeremy Strong for that scene. It was perfectly paced. The cutting was amazing. The editing was amazing. And yeah, they found like the perfect location for a nervous breakdown. But hey, he bounced back within like 20 minutes, right? And next thing you know, he’s on the phone talking about super-majority closes.
S3: Well, the power of the psych you two repressed bad feelings is very strong. Like I said, I just read the book about psychology, so that’s how I know stuff.
S2: So then Emily, what what do you do with shivs last moments? So I got the power to repress bad feelings like you can see on her face her realization that she’s been betrayed. And then she’s just like, Mm hmm.
S3: OK. Hmm. I mean, I think kind of going back to what Felix said, she will take in that information and hold it until useful to deploy. Like she’ll be kind of like have a half a gimlet eye on on her husband and see how it all plays out, because maybe she can use it as leverage, like like he was saying to sort of get back in her father’s good graces.
S1: Yes, she is. She is now going to have she is now going to have a mole inside the Logan camp, right in the form of her husband.
S2: I guess is here or more?
S1: I don’t know, is he not going to tell her what’s going on? I mean, maybe the one of the interesting things about this season is that for the first time, he has. Displayed a certain amount of jealousy of ship’s position, and he is like, why are you more important than I am and
S2: ships of the past
S1: May? Maybe we’ve seen that in the past, but like now, yeah, he has finally achieved his dream of being like, more important to Logan than Shevaun, of being like more central to the company than Sherbourne. And Shiv is going to wind up going back into politics or whatever the hell she does, but she is going to have that. You know, she’s going to have Tom in there in the way that Kendall and Roman or not.
S3: And he must be successful in the company because I mean, Forbes doesn’t just profile any executives.
S1: They’re doing a big yeah, his 18 show is doing great. He turned on the big figure, and now he’s getting all of the money in the sponsorships.
S3: Yeah, so he’s actually competent, maybe
S2: we can be a little more competent. It seems like he’s sort of pathetic in past seasons, but now maybe I don’t know.
S3: We still don’t really know how he met Shiv, what he was doing.
S2: But the only thing we know what is it is that he had a dick like a giant redwood and he fucks like a freight train. Can I say that?
S1: Yeah, this is this is a succession show. If you can’t, if you can’t swear, then you can’t have a show.
S2: I may have gotten the line slightly wrong, but I think I got the gist.
S3: We have a warning at the top, so it’s fine. ED once you do the warning,
S1: yeah, disclaimers solve everything. Didn’t you know that I do need to just mention like when? Well, we’re still vague on the subject of that. Jeremy Strong nervous breakdown seen. No one like the masterful way in which Roman. Solve the issue through humor in a way that actually works quite well in gin and tonic joke, it’s like a terrible joke, but it also actually has its intended effect. But the other ones, since we do love to talk about real world parallels here is Thor Battista when when Roman goes what? Like basically? Who among us hasn’t clipped a kid with that Porsche? You know, and he goes over to to the show because like, you kill the kid, right? And you say, Yeah, that that is that is the reference to Thor Batiste, who was the I think he was like 20 or 19, something like that, the son of A. Batiste, the richest man in Brazil. And he clips a kid on a bicycle in his like $450000 hypercar and kills him.
S3: Oh my God.
S2: Yeah. So. So they did they pay off the family
S1: and they paid off the family and there was never any prosecution? Yeah.
S2: Why remember? Yeah, yeah.
S3: I’ve been wondering for like two seasons now if if Kendall would face repercussions for what he did and like they kept hinting he would. And like, is this where it went? He just he just tells his brother and sister and they make jokes about it, and he’s absolved.
S1: Yeah, I think I think really it is because when? Logan does the cover up. That’s. His way of saying, like, I own you now and I have this over you and you can’t tell anyone and and this is like this incredible leverage the Logan has over candidly brings it up again over dinner in this season and candle, and it really has broken candle. And it’s like the I killed the kid thing is the thing that really forces him to totally break down. And then it’s. Roman, who comes out and says, like, may it please the court, but like, you didn’t actually kill him, in fact, he tried to save him and I would have been out there out of there. Well, they say like a Typekit out of a bathtub and like, you know, it’s he’s kind of not wrong. Like, I don’t think a jury would convict.
S2: He should not. Not for the people that have a crime, but they would for the cover up. Right? Like this? It’s the Chappaquiddick of it all.
S1: But he’s in his own mind up until that point. Kendall is a murderer. And then I think Roman really quite effectively in the space of like three lines manages to persuade him that maybe he’s not.
S2: I mean, I think it’s also just the unburdening of it, right, like his father no longer has the secret. So that the the weight of carrying that is gone. I think that’s that’s almost equal to what Roman says. I would argue. Mm-Hmm.
S3: It’s also interesting every season finale of the show features a a nice bonding scene between the three of them. Season one, it was right before the night before she got married. They all went and smoked a joint together
S2: in the boat house. Yeah.
S3: And then season two, they were on the yacht talking, and Roman says, Should we talk about our feelings and they just make fun of him? And then season three, they actually do talk about feelings, and Roman’s the one who’s making fun. But each is like this nice bonding scene which makes you laugh.
S1: And meanwhile, Naomi, who’s been so supportive, is nowhere to be seen. She’s just completely disappeared.
S3: Hmm. There were some cut scene that they referenced in that New Yorker piece that she was in, where she says something about that. She has some line about how their relationships gone south. It’s in the New Yorker piece. Go read it. You could go read it right now if you want it.
S2: Is it amazing to me that that like? We are talking about this whole. Episode, and I guess it’s a real testament to succession that they’ve dispatched with the lake is Kendal dead so quickly and the
S1: brief credit sequence in the present
S2: you’ve been so quickly that as we were like fumbling to get our HBO Max to work, and I was screaming at John because like the TV wasn’t working, it’s I wasn’t going to get and we had to like rewind and watch it. I was like, Oh, that’s it, that’s OK. Jeremy tried
S1: talking. I mean, you know, in terms of good lines that that’s a great one, which was easy to miss was comfrey is line just before Kendall shows up there. Like how things? And she goes, Oh, no media pick up. So it’s all good.
S3: Yeah, she looked
S1: long as the media didn’t work out. That he tried to kill himself is basically by.
S2: It’s mostly us calling Vanity Fair
S3: that would ruin her vacation. Right? I mean, from her perspective, if that got out, she’d be on the phone all day. Putting up
S2: the people
S1: ruin your entire week. I’m telling you. It’s just.
S2: Why is Jerry at Caroline’s wedding? Unclear. Greg, nobody
S1: knows. Well, there was there was an attempt to explain that in the previous episode where it was basically Peter moneyAnd just wants all of the important people at his wedding because that’s who he is. He’s a social climber. And and there was also that grand there that he’s family, Greg’s kind of family ish. So I don’t know.
S3: He has come from Buffalo, Brightstar, Buffalo, where he is a rising star,
S1: but you have to have Greg Allen. Well, I’m sure Tom brought Greg in. You know, Tom’s like, Well, we have to invite Greg and Caroline this invite who you like. This isn’t for me. This is for, you know, Peter. And then ultimately, Caroline sells out her kids for the sake of her hair today, gone tomorrow, husband, which is which is very Caroline. But she does have this line. At the very end, when she’s on speakerphone and she she is addressing the kids, she’s trying to explain why she did what she did and what she says is I’m not sure it’s been good for you or the, you know, which is about as articulate as she can get. But she’s right. Like, she negotiated this super-majority clause and gave her control and blah blah blah. And this is all very murky and like the Murdoch kids had it to, you know, out of divorce. But she’s right. Like it, in fact turned out to be terrible for them. And if it hadn’t existed, they would have all been better off. And if she’s going to tear it up now? Yeah, that is good for them.
S3: That’s the thing about this whole episode that I was on Logan’s side, I was like, Absolutely, do this deal, absolutely do not leave this company to these three morons. I think Logan does call them morons, and I was like, You know what? They are morons like they each had their shot. They all messed it up. Like they’re morons do not sell. You do not leave your company in the hands of these people. I feel like as far as business decisions go, this was a good one. Like, the kids were just wrong.
S2: If you can handle Peck, one kid like, who do you think is a smart? I know who I think is the smartest, but also just like I think Kendall’s the smartest, but is just like such an. Abjectly, ridiculous human being. That that he can’t
S1: get what can like being smart isn’t enough. You also need executive slash leadership abilities, and Kendall obviously has none of those, right? There was this very brief aside a few episodes ago where Shevaun and Roman are charged with basically putting together the deal sheet for Mattsson, who ultimately fails to come into the office to be sold on this deal, and which in hindsight, of course, was a great move by Madsen. And Shiv basically says, well, we know this deal makes sense, and Roman says, well, if we knew that I wouldn’t have stayed up all night, you know, getting my minions to put together this PowerPoint like Roman has actually been working right? He has been involved. He has been doing an actual job. He has been staying up all night, putting the sheets together with minions like he has. He has built and built up enough of a relationship with Jerry that he can look at her and she can be like, Look, there’s nothing I can do like I have to represent the shareholders here, which is entirely true. He has no no cards to play when she’s like, How would siding with you be like, you know, in my interest? But. It’s not just that we had, like, fucked up sex thing that they have, it’s also that she does on some level think that he has some kind of relatives. So I would say I would say I would say probably women. Hmm, interesting.
S2: I disagree. But go on. Well, I. I think Roman’s done some of the work, but I don’t think he has the ineffable thing. I don’t think it’s healthy.
S1: Of course, he doesn’t have the ineffable thing, none of them happy in there. No, I
S2: think Kendall’s got like a little spark of it, but it’s so weighed down by everything else. Like, it’s like the little moment of him that you see in the car. That’s the thing that fools you into thinking that he’s got the spark and then everything else swallows that. And Schiff is a fake. She’s a fake. She is like she she is going through the motions. She does understand their father, I think, may be better than the other two do. I don’t know. Maybe not, no. Maybe she doesn’t. I don’t know what I’m talking about.
S3: OK, so I listen to the Kara Swisher official podcast. Not going to lie. And now Scaramucci was on it.
S2: Which, Wow, come on.
S3: I know how you did that. You got. I’m sorry. I was running, jogging, walking. Doesn’t matter anyway. Anthony Scaramucci was on the podcast. We know him because he served in the Trump administration for like six days or six hours or something, and he’s leveraged that he’s been eating out on that ever since, and he runs a fake hedge fund or something.
S1: He got, he got he got very he’s tried to get me fired at least three and possibly four times. So I like that.
S3: So he was on her podcast, and the reason I’m bringing all this up is to say, like he started talking about how Chavez’s least favorite character on the show and she’s the worst of the right children. And I feel like people’s reactions to her are super kind of sexist, and the whole show is kind of set up that way too. Like she’s she’s like power hungry and like condemned for being power hungry on a show that’s all about being power hungry. Like, I don’t understand that really.
S1: Yeah, Logan’s Logan’s reaction to her stupid, sexist for sure. Like when when Roman’s like, can I come along to the meeting with Max? And he’s like, Fuck off and stick around with your dick pics and then Shiv like seizes her opportunity. She’s like, Well, if he doesn’t come, can I come? And Logan’s like, All right, Roman.
S2: I mean, it’s just more transparent in some ways. Like she just says out loud the things that the others don’t. Or maybe the thing, but you’re right, it is super sexist, I mean, maybe, maybe it’s my internalized sexism, all
S3: I’m not, I don’t know, but I just I wonder, I do wonder about that. Like, people seem to hate her more than the others, but she’s they’re all kind of equally bad.
S1: I definitely do not hate him. I kind of like her more than the others. I think definitely, if the three of them, she is the one I like the most or dislike the least. I think her ability to, you know. Do that deal with Sandy and Stewie was like it showed the actual sort of psychological intelligence you managed to get Sandy Junior to come around like she, she’s not. And and, you know, her ability to to persuade Raven had to turn on the reason, you know, like she’s she’s got actual abilities. She’s not like it was always for the first couple of seasons, it was always Roman who was the useless one. And.
S2: She’s just undone by her father like she can’t. Yeah.
S1: She can’t. The closer she gets to Logan, the more kind of undone she becomes.
S2: I think I think I just have a little bit of personal resentment because on my honeymoon I posted what I thought was a really kind of funny, over-the-top picture of myself in a hot tub, enjoying a glass of champagne and Felix commented Shiv underneath it. Oh oh.
S1: In fact, never forgiven me.
S2: Never. I’ve never forgiven you for that. Hmm. Hmm. But also because I have strawberry blonde hair. Leave me alone. Hmm.
S1: You know what, I? Sorry. Not sorry. Wavy lines, Lizzie, you have a very short, short list.
S2: I have a very short, short list. What is it I want to be? Oh, go no. Come pass pass. I need to come back to it. I need to find words written down. I want to be my own, my own Greg. I want to be my own Greg.
S1: I like that. That’s good.
S2: Didn’t Tom say to Greg, you could have your own Greg?
S1: Oh, right. You can have 20
S2: of 20 of your own Greg’s.
S3: Yeah, that was good.
S1: I kind of I kind of liked Logan saying, Would you mind? Because would you mind not with him in here giving me the doggy evils? Can you take him out, Romulus like that was that was a good line, the doggy evils and then literally just like, take him out. He meant out of the room, but also just take him out the fuck and take him out, Romulus.
S3: He didn’t, though he didn’t take him out. He didn’t.
S1: Probably he had like Roman had like a maybe I had no 8mm of backbone in Spain, which is more than he showed in the rest of the show.
S3: Yeah, OK. My favorite line, I had to listen to it like three times to get this all down. But here we go. Say hello to someone who could be Logan’s ex-wife’s step cousin in law and heir apparent to the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, 12 times removed or some shit. A potential count of somewhere and legitimate claimant to the doorman throne of Italy.
S2: Well done, Craig. We need to be your own, Greg, when when you’ve got that,
S3: he’s about to be royalty. So there you go.
S2: I’m none of us even talking about I’m the eldest son.
S1: Oh my God, Kong. Yeah, Connor, poor Congo.
S2: I mean, the problem, isn’t it?
S1: The Con.. I mean, I mean also some amazing acting from Alan Ruck on this one who normally is just a caricature, but like when he starts, like carving up the table with his knife and then just explodes.
S3: I mean, it is pretty rude of Kendall to say he’s the oldest when he’s not when Connor’s right there.
S1: I really it’s a little bit of it’s a little bit of foreshadowing, right? You know how you know, like the the breakdown of Kendall finally gives him the. Ability to come together with his siblings like that. Complete breakdown Karma has with his siblings at that table finally gives him the sort of vulnerability to turn to Willa and say, like, you know, my siblings hate me, you hate me. But there’s some sweet is going to take over 18 and banned me and like my life is miserable and become just such a pathetic little hangdog. That world is just, oh, fuck it.
S3: That’s the only real sorry for him. The pity, pity marriage proposal. Acceptance from Willa
S1: the Murphy Financement.
S3: Yeah, how bad could it be?
S2: I’ll get. How bad could it be?
S1: Oh, I mean, that’s exactly what you want to hear from someone you’ve just proposed married to revise. Yeah, well, fuck it. How bad could it be?
S3: He deserves whatever happens next, right? I mean.
S1: So what’s going to happen next, guys? I mean, I do think this is the perfect end to succession. We have found out, you know, the none of them are going to succeed. It’s we have completely resolved the. Question that was raised in the season one, episode one, and we have neatly tied everything up in the bow. And you know, why are they even making a season before
S2: they could walk away now and it would be very effective? Mike Drop. I don’t think they’re not going to. But, yeah,
S1: it’s a good it’s a good way to end the season and it’s a good way to end the show.
S3: Yeah. There’s unfortunate speculation. I’m seeing chatter. People are saying Felix that she is pregnant. And so if they show up in season four and a baby is is on the plot, we can’t watch.
S2: So maybe that’s why we were getting all that maca root blubber blubber. Maybe it wasn’t about Carrie at all. Oh, Chekhov’s maca root.
S1: It’s so weird who was in the show like, you know, there was that whole weird subplot about Logan wanting to have more babies like Harry. And then there was the very brief scene between Marshall and Kerry, where Marshall seems to be very nice to carry in your leg. Marshall Wood was is so mean to everyone who’s fucking her husband that like, what is? Does she not know she’s far too smart to not know, right?
S2: I got the sense that she was just sort of treating her like an underling and that that was actually more insulting than anything else.
S3: Like, she doesn’t care anymore. She get her deal. She leveled up whatever her contract is and doesn’t matter.
S1: Yeah, I have been disappointed that season two was a disappointment to me because Marcia was pretty much M.I.A. Season three was a disappointment to me because Marshall pretty much. I mean, I’m just not getting my mojo fix man. I need more Marcia
S2: and only one weird Adrien Brody episode.
S3: Yeah, that’s
S1: yeah. He came and they disappeared. But the one thing we can be pretty sure of is we’re going to get more Alexander Sarsgaard in season four.
S1: Yes. With his very well fitting teacher. I mean, the way, just the way that the T-shirts hang between Alexander Sarsgaard and Jeremy Strong, you know, is everything you need to know. I’m OK with it.
S3: They’re probably very expensive. Don’t listen, John.
S1: I can guarantee you that they’re extremely expensive
S2: dishes like the $600 Laura Piano baseball cap. Yeah.
S1: So I think that is actually it for Slate Money Succession. We are not going to be back for however long a year. It’s going to be a while. And who knows what season four is going to bring? But listen, guys, thank you so much for sticking with us. It’s been awesome. Recapping all of these episodes and email, and thank you to Shane Ross for managing to turn this episode around in just absolute record time because we did not get a screening for this one and mostly Lizzie. Thanks for coming on.
S2: I’m so excited to be on the finale in the finale. I need to double cross you very quickly right now.
S1: Exactly the next thing you know, I’m going to get some kind of comments.
S2: I have an announcement about the host of the next season of the show.
S1: Oh, it’s me Lizzie. Are you taking over? Have you just knifed me? Yeah. Wow. And that was a meme. All right, I’m going. I’m going to get you back somehow. And an Instagram comment or some, some somewhere else.
S3: A few unlucky slack.