How Does an Influencer’s Husband Do His Job?

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S1: This ad free podcast is part of your Slate Plus membership.

S2: Hi I’m Rachel Hampton. I’m an editorial assistant here at Slate and I’m your host for this season of working for the next few episodes are going to be focusing on influencers taking a deep dive into a new industry that’s changed from one that was really only interested by teens to one it’s now covered by journalists at The New York Times and The Atlantic. This week we’re talking to Matt Stevens man Steve Jobs and the fashion industry but he’s probably best known for being married to lifestyle influencer Lindsay Silverman. In fact he takes a supporting role in our growing business so seriously that his hand on Instagram is insta husband long the butt of jokes and even Perry accounts. Instagram husbands were once the unsung heroes dodging traffic and cranky tourists behind the scenes to get the perfect shot. But in recent years the supporting cast that allows influencers to be a thing has started to take center stage and as a proud self-described Instagram husband Matt’s got a really great insight into what it takes being married to an influencer.

S3: So what’s your name and what do you do.

S4: My name is Matthew Stevens. And thank you for having me Rachel I appreciate it. I mentioned this to you in an email but I like to think that I have three jobs these days. Number one being a husband to a beautiful wife. Number two I work for a large fashion house in wholesale. That takes me around the world. And number three I work as much as I can with my wife who is an influencer. Her head knows at Lindsay’s celeb and I try to help her out as much as I can in any way that I can.

S3: So you’re Instagram handle is insta husband. That’s right. A little bit more about that.

S5: Well it’s it’s really the brainchild of my wife who who is a marketing and branding genius you can say my my previous Instagram handle was at Ms Stevens underscore. You know I think that was just kind of because I couldn’t find any other variations of Matt Stevens so I picked that randomly and it just wasn’t catchy for her catchy and you know I think she finds our relationship a differentiator and into space and so we wanted to do something that was unique and different and something that could complement what she was building what she was doing on Instagram. So she and at the time the Instagram husband was becoming a popular term and it was the guys are taking pictures of their wives and there were other guys taking pictures of guys taking pictures of the wives and making fun of them and saying oh God it must be suck to be him all these things. So that was popular at the time and so the term insta husband was was really interesting to her and she looked it up on Instagram and somebody else actually had it and something that she really wanted. So you know if you know my wife when she really wants something show she’ll go after it. So she made a nice bid for that Instagram handle to somebody who owned it. Who. Long story short eventually accepted it and we were able to transition the name. So it’s sort of become a brand for not only myself but for her and her business.

S3: I love that you bought the account from somebody else that’s really funny. Yeah I guess when did the answer have been branding kind of come into like your wife’s larger branding.

S6: Well my wife did not leave her full time job until October of last year officially. And then I changed the name a couple of months afterwards but it had always been my my role in her in her life. So it came about earlier this year officially but it’s always kind of been that that title for me unofficially until we made the change.

S3: OK so your wife left her job and October 28 seem like she’s a lifestyle influence there like it has a blog and Instagram. How long has that been going on before she left her full time job.

S6: Well she’s had an Instagram for a really long time. I mean I’ve had it you know since the beginning and she’s had it as well. And it was never the term influencer for her never really crossed her mind. She used a journalist just like just like you are. She went to great journalism school got a job internships at magazines a couple of really great jobs out of school at magazines print and digital. And she held these really great titles and all along the way whenever she traveled or whenever we traveled together we would take pictures and she would post them to Instagram.

S4: And slowly but surely in in a very organic way she became an influencer you know wasn’t like one day she said wow look at what these influencers doing I want to be that she’s slowly transitioned into this into this influencer role.

S5: And that was never really at the forefront of what she was doing she was a writer and an editor and ideas person and then slowly but surely she kind of transitioned into the influencer space now. And I think that’s really what makes her different and helps her is that she has this editorial background and that she came into this space just kind of by default because she was taking nice pictures and could write funny captions that are useful and and informational. And so it was a really organic transition for her.

S3: I’ve noticed that with the feel the influence as you talk to is like a lot of them do have backgrounds and like advertising or journalism where you are really good at selling things or not necessarily selling things but you’re really good at writing and like content creation and then Instagram kind of pops up and it just is a perfect platform for people like that.

S4: Yeah. And I tell her all the time I said you’re You take pretty pictures but but that’s not really who you are on Instagram yet. I mean I take her pictures and she edits them post them. But what’s really valuable is the content that she produces the guides to certain cities that she puts out. She also does a little bit of work with beauty so she’ll she’ll give you the top five beauty or if top five facial moisturizers for summer whatever whatever it is she has the ability to write amazing content that’s relatable that people can get valuable information about an act on it. I tell her all the time what you’re building here is like a magazine on Instagram. You don’t just have an Instagram page with pretty pictures. That’s that’s one thing. But people come to you because you add value and I think I was saying to you before how it’s an overall portfolio of things but she also has her blog to where she can do different things than she can on on Instagram. And it’s it’s just a combination of a lot of really useful tools for her.

S3: So when did this kind of become not only a viable business for her but for you. And then how does this fit into your overall career trajectory.

S6: It didn’t become a viable business for Lindsay until one of her colleagues told her that she was crazy for staying in her current job and not going off on her own and taking opportunities that were that were coming to her shout out to Brittany Hennessey. Didn’t you know Britney. I do not. She’s an incredible person to know in the influencer space and she worked at things was one of the top magazine publications in influencer marketing working working directly with influencers for the magazines and said to Lindsay you know you have this following of 100 and whatever it was at that time hundred twenty thousand followers you know you’re crazy for not leaving. And so so that was really the catalyst for her someone to say like hey you know take the leap and do it and and get out there and and you could be you can make twice as much as you are now. For me it’s a little bit different. I’ve always had that stable kind of career path and I’m still I’m still that way and I still am focused on what I’m doing now and my role right now is to help her in any way that I can while she builds her business. So she’s in she’s in a startup role. And anytime you’re in a startup role you know that the budgets are tight. Your time is is extremely valuable so I can help her in a number of different ways not only by taking photos but being available you know as much as I possibly can and whatever time she needs me and I’m also a lot cheaper than photographer that you have to bring with you on a trip or pay to put in a hotel room or pay just for that for their services.

S4: So I don’t take a salary from her. She doesn’t pay me. But I add value in other ways that that are similar.

S3: Yes. What do you see the role of an Instagram husband being.

S6: Oh well there are a lot of roles I think no one of course is is the photographs. Yeah and unfortunately a lot of guys out there have have trouble with simple simple photography and I wish I could just. I just want to I wish I had a week where I could sit down and just write an entire guide to help some people out. I would love to do that and Instagram has been masterclass in Instagram husband masterclass. I mean that would be Yeah that’s my golden ticket I suppose at some point but I’m still doing research. Yeah I’m in the research phase. Yeah I know. But I think I think another important role of an Instagram husband whether it’s for somebody who’s professional or is your girlfriend is you’re you’re there support role you’re doing. You’re adding a valuable service for them you’re there when you need them you can take a good picture that they can share with their friends and you know it’s just another nice thing that you can do for your significant other. Yeah. So I see it as twofold.

S3: So how involved are you in the day to day business operations of Lindsay’s career.

S4: I was a lot more involved in the beginning because I was also involved in discussions around contracts what’s fair what’s not what deliverables should you be giving to brands what brands should you be working with. Where’s the career going. All of these things so it was a lot of that plus taking pictures and the travel itself and all of those things. More recently she signed with the talent agency. So like a lot of that kind of came off of me and off of her. And now I feel like our discussions are more around bigger picture. So she’s able to be a little bit more creative because nitty gritty type stuff has been has been taken off of her and now the conversations over dinner can be like Well where do we see my brand in five years. What product would be the best for me to launch. Do you think based instead of being more involved in line items in a contract and very specific things that will end up being negotiated out it’s more of a bigger picture conversation which is which is fantastic.

S3: So the nitty gritty I’m really interested in how did you kind of get the I guess business acumen to do contract workers stuff like that.

S4: I don’t have any I don’t have any business acumen when it comes to contract work and I don’t have any photography experience so and neither does Lindsay right. So it’s a great school and we’ve got a great great education and we for the most part understand what we’re looking at and in the beginning we had a lawyer who was familiar with the space and also Brittany who I mentioned earlier had a lot of experience with contracts so we really leveraged our resources and then learned kind of as we went along like what is okay and what is not okay in a contract and what should you what should you look for and remove or edit or change and there’s there are things that we learn everyday like for example how many edits does a brand want for your content or how many edits should you allow. Right. Because if you do make a video and have a voiceover Well maybe you said something that they want to tweak but how many times can they do that right. It’s just something like that can take it can take you three or four edits or five or six hours put that in the contract in the beginning and you can avoid those type of situations or if they say we’ll pay you 90 days. Well why don’t you just try to slip a 30 day period in here. Right. So it’s it’s also it’s also a learning process.

S3: Yeah it seems like a really big learning curve like I think that’s the cool thing about them.

S4: Is this based on the way as you’re saying is a low barrier to entry so anyone can really do it but also there’s like such a steep learning curve and I give so much credit to all the girls and the guys and in between out there that are making money doing this because it is one of the most difficult jobs that I’ve ever experienced. I mean from one end you can see these influencers are going to amazing places and they’re staying in amazing hotels and they’re eating you know amazing food and but what they don’t see is what’s going on behind the scenes and the hours that they’re putting in and building websites and websites crashing and you know all sorts of small business things that are going on all the while you’re trying to entertain and influence and stay up with the competition. It’s it’s one of the hardest jobs that that I’ve ever I’ve ever seen.

S3: What would you say is the hardest part of being married to an influence.

S4: The hardest part about being married to an influencer. I would just say sometimes the conversations can be like the same. You know like you’re always you’re always kind of talking about the same type of of things with a new brand. But I think if you can kind of keep that macro discussion in place and realize that you’re building towards something bigger and eventually you’ll shy away from some of the mundane things that you end up talking about over and over again as you’re building your business I think you know you can overcome that.

S3: Yeah. So you also have like a second full time job in the fashion industry. So how do you. That’s my first full time job. And then how do you how do you split your days generally like what are you devoting the most amount of times.

S4: Yeah. So I devote all the time that I possibly can to my first job because that’s that’s primary for me a lot of what I do for Lindsay is after hours on weekends or while we’re while we’re traveling. So like I said we talk a lot about what she is she’s doing in her space and a lot of that comes after work hours through to dinner and then she’ll pick up her work from 10:00 p.m. until 3:00 in the morning I wake up in the middle of the night and I’ll turn over and she’s sending an email back to somebody that and working yeah like crazy. And then weekends it’s the same. And then when we travel it’s on the airplane. It’s before dinner it’s during dinner. I mean it’s it’s there’s a lot of there are a lot of hours that go into it.

S3: How do you kind of a work life balance between that especially since so much of the content is lifestyle content.

S4: It all seems like like like work right now but you know I keep going back to the point of it being like a startup situation. I mean she only started doing this in October and I’m in that point where I just want to help her in any way that I can and I try my best to just like forget about the other things that like having only one type of conversation. Well for now like that’s it’s OK because we’re building a business for her. And and I need to be there for her and support her in this space right now and I’ll do the best I can to be a husband when I know what I need to be it which she needs me to be and vice versa. But it really it’s a lot of work. And yes there’s a lot of life in there too because of where we’re traveling and the things where we’re able to see in the experiences that we’re able to have. But right now it’s it’s mostly work.

S3: Yeah it seems very much like owning a small business where for the first like three four or five years it’s just your life like that’s the business you’re pouring everything into it.

S6: It really is a grind. And I keep saying this before I give a lot of credit to other influencers or other Instagram bloggers out there that may not have a husband or a wife or somebody who has a stable job and a stable career. And just to have somebody to bounce ideas off of or you know just just ask for advice or what do you think about this. It’s it’s really hard. So I give a lot of credit to these to the other influencers out there that are doing it themselves because it is starting your own businesses is hard enough as it is but it’s really really hard. In this particular space so I kind of say you do a little bit.

S3: Air quotes around influences just now. What do you think of the term and what do you. You said Lindsay kind of got started not thinking of herself as an influence and right.

S4: Changed right. I like it. I like the term influencer because when I when I first got Instagram there were a couple of people that I followed. I didn’t know what the influencer term meant but. But if I wanted to go to South Beach for example there was one particular person that I knew traveled to South Beach and I would just go to his page and if he was staying here I would stay there. And I never thought of it as an influencer thing. I just wanted to like stay where this guy was thinking he was cool and we had a like minded personality and we were the same type of clothes and I was genuinely influenced by this person. But at that time there was no there was no such thing. So I believe in it. I understand it. I just think nowadays it’s the term is tossed out there and it’s just some girls don’t like to be called influencers. Other people do. Some give it a negative connotation. So I don’t I don’t know. It depends on who you’re speaking to how well they accept it.

S3: So just throw it up in quotes and influencer if that makes sense. Yeah definitely. I feel like so much we’re kind of talking about this a little bit beforehand but so much of I think most normal people’s association with influence is very negative. I think partially due to the platform partially due to people just not understanding the amount of work that’s behind it. Do you guys kind of have to deal with that and like marketing or even just like when you’re out taking photos or whatever do you see people kind of just like scoffing.

S4: No thank God no. LINDSAY In our case I think she’s done such a great job of building a following that understands where she came from and appreciate her real ness and the way that she runs her account. Vs. some some other people and how they may run run their account. So she focuses on authenticity and I think that’s that’s really really important. I mean I stopped caring what people think about me taking pictures a long time ago. I mean sometimes it’s it’s it’s unusual because you don’t want to annoy a group of people who are trying to enjoy the sunset or something like that that’s that’s different but I think it’s it’s OK for us.

S3: I guess getting to that now when you annoy people who are taking photos of the sunset what’s the kind of nitty gritty of taking photos like that like the photos that we see of people traveling like it seems like there’s never anyone else in the shot.

S4: Yeah there’s a lot of planning that goes into it and I think one of the things that we’ve learned over the course of the years is that the best time to take a picture is in the morning when the sun is on the horizon or just above or at sunset time in the evening when when the sun is on the horizon or just below. So between the hours of 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. It may not be a great time because of where the sun is in the shadows and if it’s too bright or this or that but when it’s early or when it’s late it’s a little bit easier to take the photographs and then when it’s super early in the morning there’s nobody around everybody sleeping usually. And then in the afternoon or evening sometimes you deal with crowds that are watching a sunset or sitting by the pool or having dinner or something like that. But it’s a bit easier when you when you stick to those two time frames.

S3: What would you say is some of the common misconceptions people have about like influencing space.

S4: I would say the common misconception is that life is easy and everything is peachy and hunky dory because it’s not always the case the places and the things that the experiences are real and they’re amazing and they’re they’re fun but there’s a lot of real world stuff that goes into into all of this that people might not recognize sometimes and I think a lot of people will say oh well you know she gets this for free and and everything is for free and I look at Lucky her and Lucky him and all that stuff that’s I mean it’s true but nothing is actually free. Right. So you know if you go on an amazing trip and in the real world it costs you twenty thousand dollars let’s say. Well that trip is still costing you two thousand dollars. Let’s say just throwing a number out there 10 percent of the trip. Yeah. And you know if you’re not making big bucks yet still it’s still too expensive for you. You know so it’s there’s still a real a real life element to the cost aspect of it which I don’t think people think about all the time because of the experience. So what you’re getting it on one hand is amazing and that there’s no doubt about that but I think if you’re talking misconceptions it’s that everything is free and that everything is beautiful and peachy and I just don’t think that’s entirely true.

S3: Do you ever see like a tension between you say your wife kind of bills brand and authenticity. Do you ever see a tension between kind of the authenticity behind your wife’s brand and against what people actually see which is kind of this perfect dream life at sunset and sunrise.

S4: I just. You’re right there is there is a little bit of a misconception there but I think the focus should be on inspiring people to get out there. The thing I like about Lindsay is that she breaks it down and makes it very simple. You know you can go to an island and you can stay for five thousand euro a night or you can stay for 250 Euros a night. But what she’ll do is kind of show you how you can do that if you’re using a face cream she’ll show you the one that costs 500 dollars or the one that costs 50 dollars. So it’s showing real people what they can do and then if you have that kind of money you can you can do that too. Yeah you can do that too and I think she reaches both of those demographics quite well.

S3: So tell me a little bit more about the logistics of just having to travel on a dime like you get an opportunity and you just drop everything.

S4: Yes. Usually it’s it’s a few weeks in advance I would say typically. Of course I have a full time job so I only have a certain amount of vacation days. Right so we need to be smart about a few things if she’s gonna do a project with south of France or whatever it is. Well we’re going to leave on a Saturday morning and it’s gonna be over a holiday and then I’m going to take the four days from Tuesday to Friday off and then we have that extra weekend. Yeah. Right. So we have to be really smart about what trips that I can go on when we’re planning it. Otherwise she’ll need to hire a photographer which she hasn’t really had to do much but it’s not out of the out of the question for her and then for for work for me I’ve gotten into a nice routine of where I need to be and when for the most part. Yeah. And we try to piggyback off of that for my work too. So for example I do a lot of work in South Florida. So if I’m if I’m doing a week and a half trip there. Well Lindsey will try to do a sponsor whatever it is. Yeah I’m in one of those cities at one of those times at some property so that we can go together. I saved my company a little bit of money because she can get the hotel hook up and she can do her job and I can do mine and we can have dinner together and also be apart less. So for me I have a full time job that requires me to travel for her. She is a full time job that requires her to travel. So in order for us to ever see each other we need to overlap a little bit. So that goes back to your misconception thing that everything is like you know hunky dory. Well a lot of the time that we spend together is not at home on our couch watching Netflix which we do but a lot of it is trying to match our schedules so that we can we can do this. You know we can see each other as much as we would like to.

S3: It seems like kind of scheduling that life would make it hard to I guess like hang out with family you’re like schedule things like far in advance.

S4: Like do you ever feel that with like explaining it to your parents so hard because when you’re home you just want to be home because you’ve been gone for so long. And you know my parents live in North Carolina and Pennsylvania and hers live in Jersey so we see her as a little bit more. But you’re right. I mean we we wish we could see family more and we wish we could see friends more and we do everything that we can do to try and to try and do that. But again the focus is to grind it out build the business and then you know if she builds a web site and sells it sometime down the future in the future well we’ll spend plenty of time with our friends and family at that point but it just comes down to that startup mentality again when I guess Lindsay first started out and the influence in space was kind of really murky.

S3: What was it like explaining like her job or like this kind of business to people online.

S4: Well she she would she would tell you what it was like to try to explain that to her parents because our parents are on Facebook right. And that’s that’s kind of what they know. They don’t know Instagram necessarily because that’s more our generation and then below that you have the Snapchat Generation after my younger brothers. And so trying to explain to a 60 year old why you’re going to leave your full time job that you went to college for that they paid X number of dollars to send you to leave that job and try to make money on an app called Instagram or whatever it is. And it’s really really hard. That was a big obstacle. Yeah. I can only imagine. I think so and that was one of the things that made it harder for her to make the leap but she eventually did it and it worked out. And they understand and her mother’s going with her to a trip to Virginia it’s somewhere in Virginia in a couple of weeks and they went to talks Kate goes together and mom tagged along.

S7: So you know they’re they’re writing it and they’re writing out the benefits of it.

S8: My dad and my mom are waiting for me to make it big so that yes they can cover me. One of my trips but we’re not we’re not quite there yet. I did hit the 4000 mark on Sunday. Oh what does that mean followers.

S7: Oh nice. Thank you A.J..

S9: I like miles traveled miles. Buying some I mean something I know those are in the hundreds of thousands. Wow. Yeah.

S4: Miles that’s another that’s another interesting element to everything is the travel and the points and the miles and all that kind of stuff. That’s another Yeah. Tell me my incredible business. Well Lindsay and I we started to read a blog called The Point sky and we might be familiar with Brian Kelly.

S8: Yeah. Hey Brian you’re listening. I love you.

S4: But Brian built an incredible incredible blog and now Web site and now empire you say around travel and points. So I go back to the theme of of adding value for your followers and for your audience. Well this is another way that we like to add value is to teach the audience how we travel for free on points or for basically free I like to say because you stuff to pay taxes and certain things. But Lindsay and I will we got married. We took out a couple of credit cards that had these incredible Miles deals on them and we essentially put all four of our wedding deposits on the credit card. We didn’t need to necessarily write but we did because we could earn these miles that we could redeem afterwards. And we flew around the world first class using our miles for our honeymoon for free. Well yeah. Plus a couple of taxes. And this was like a mine. Oh yeah. And at the time it wasn’t really a mainstream concept. But now with Brian and what he’s been doing he’s really bringing the points and the travel with Miles and the experiences to to the mainstream. And that’s something that Lindsay does and that I try to push too because I think it’s it’s just an incredible incredibly valuable valuable space especially when you’re trying to influence your your followers to do something well. This is a great way to do something amazing for free is was to earn these points.

S7: So it’s it’s a very that’s another might be another podcast of the future.

S3: ALAN points is so fascinating to me because I just don’t use any of them like whenever I’m like oh I’m flying thought Well somebody’s going to use like the whatever mileage number and I know I should but I just never get into it.

S8: You know what you just had.

S4: I said the same exact thing and Lindsay came to me and said You are absolutely crazy. Just sign up for American Airlines whatever you’re going to be traveling so much with work read this article from the point sky and I did and I took the plunge and it I mean it’s it’s incredible. Yeah I mean think about it you’re spending money anyway. And if you’re not getting rewarded for spending that money someone else is because when you swipe your card at a at a vendor a portion of that sale goes to the credit card company to pay for the rewards that other people get. Yeah. So if you’re not if you’re not taking advantage of that you’re paying for somebody else or you’re not paying for it but somebody else is benefiting from it. Yeah.

S7: So that definitely actually makes you want to do more. That was good. Maybe I’ll start using you. Okay. You’ll have to invite me back for the points podcast. Brian Kelly. Yes. Yes. Spell it.

S3: Honestly I feel like so many people would love that. So tell me a little bit more about like your day job. Like it in the fashion industry.

S4: Yeah. So I work for a large fashion house and Tony to name names or anything but I’m in wholesale for for them. So I travel around the world and I manage different types of clients. So I have clients that are independent mom and pop shops. I have clients that are large department stores. I have clients that are distributors in different countries. I have what we call House accounts that have multiple doors across the country and I sell to collections a year to them and visit them internally to replenish an different trunk shows. I get to meet and clients and the product is very expensive. So I get to meet a lot of really interesting people and work with a lot of sophisticated clients. Yeah. So it’s cool I’ve you know I’ve always wanted to do something in fashion and I always wanted to have a business element to that because that’s what I studied in school and something I was always interested in. So this job allows me to combine those those elements together but it also gives me the freedom to be where I want not necessarily when I want but be where I’m needed when it’s necessary. And it also affords me a little bit more flexibility when it comes to doing certain things with with Lindsay and helping her because I don’t I don’t have to go into an office at 9:00 every morning and leave you know show up before my boss and leave after you know it. I mean it’s a if I need to work till 11 p.m. I do it if I need to work on a weekend I do it. You know I work a lot of weekends so I have a nice flexible schedule. So thankfully all of that is is kind of working out at the moment so that’s really great.

S3: So when you say wholesale collection like what do you mean. Yes.

S4: So that means you go into a store and you buy a shirt for fifty dollars retail Well the place that you’re shopping buys at a wholesale price so whatever it is ten dollars. Well I’m the person at the brand that sells that product to the to the store at at 20 bucks. It was to make it to make it simple. So we have a collection that we come out with twice a year that have different styles and different colors trends different things so it’s my job to sell those into big stores.

S3: Yeah. Yeah that makes sense. I just like I don’t really understand that much about the fashion industry. So you said you always think.

S4: Yeah. No actually I have a banking background so I got into the capital markets world right out of college. And you know I was I was sitting by a desk all day every day. I mean I had a snugly underneath my desk. I mean it was it’s a lot. And you know staring at three screens and just living in and working day after day in such a cutthroat environment where it wasn’t necessarily good for the soul. But I had such a valuable experience and I learned so many things that I wouldn’t have otherwise and I just learned how to work with sophisticated people and smart people and how to be organized and regiment you know different things that you learn in that in that environment that helped me when I decided to switch.

S3: Yeah. So I guess working in the fashion space and the influences Bay it sounds like you kind of always have to be on trend. Do you have like a band. Yeah. Like what is the latest How to kind of always look like I show up to the office leggings pretty often.

S6: Yeah. Thankfully I only see my clients like three times or four times a year. So like if I have four outfits I can just be four.

S7: Yeah. And then did that last year the whole year.

S4: But for me I try to keep it simple. You know a black t shirt white t shirt I’ll wear the brand. You know sometimes when I’m traveling jeans simple sneakers and that’s I always try to just keep it simple for. For Lindsey I tell her all the time like you’re not a fashion blogger yet necessarily or or yet you may never want to be. So for her it’s more we try. You know we’re always because you don’t want to post a picture wearing the same thing. Yeah right. It’s really hard you want to switch it up and especially for girls you know you got to switch it up and you know the pictures have to look beautiful and she tries to do that as much as possible and is getting she’s getting more brands sending her things and she’s reaching out to more brands that she likes and and getting into new outfits. But yeah it’s hard because you don’t have all this money to spend on tons and tons of clothes. But thankfully she’s been working with more showrooms and people that will loan her clothes and she’s got a partnership with Rent the Runway and they’ve amazing and she finds incredible outfits and Rent the Runway that fit her. Yeah actually because that’s also hard. Girls can never find anything that fit them. Yes they order a hundred things off the website and all of them go back then 98 and the two that fit wear bracelets.

S7: Exactly.

S4: So now she’s working with a showroom and can find things that fit her there and then rent the runway has been great for me. I just I just know you know I’d buy something and I buy five things online and I keep them up because it’s so simple. Yeah for me it’s like simple like very easy I’ve been buying the same thing for for so long that it’s easier for me. I’d love to step out a little bit a little bit more but you kind of have to be careful and you have a full time job and this and that. So it’s like it’s a balance.

S3: That’s really interesting. Do you think there will ever be a moment in which if your wife does become a fashion blogger it’s like a budgetary item where it’s like 20 20 30 fashion budget.

S8: Yeah that’s right. She has quite the quite the wish list right. Quite the wish going on but thankfully I told you before we just bought an apartment in Williamsburg.

S4: So anytime she asked me for whatever it is the newest thing is the book tote from Christian Dior the book tote where you can customize it and put your name on it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s you know two thousand euro whatever it is. Wow. And so that’s the new thing. But I said Lindsay you know we could really use a new car.

S8: I’d rather have a nice new venture or that you know that old TV that we see and then it’s like yay. So once again once the apartment is done then it’s that I’m scared.

S3: That’s really funny. I guess kind of getting into Lindsay’s brand. It seems like recently when people are selling their brands like politics really comes into it a lot more. Have ya made a conscious decision whether or not to bring your personal politics into.

S4: No not yet. I think there there are a lot of things that we believe in that space but it’s it’s really really it’s such a sensitive topic and I think it’s important. And there are things that we should be addressing. But it’s it’s it’s a process it’s a slow process because I think the focus is kind of on building the brand and the following in the product. We do. We do some work with LGBT community LGBTQ. So we do a little bit of work with them. We we had a great time at the private world pride parade. We were on the points guy flow. It was so much fun that we do support that community and every every way that we can. We just haven’t really touched on all the topics that there are. I mean I’m a big environmental person so I would love to eventually kind of go off on that platform too. But I just don’t think we’ve gotten to that point yet if that makes sense I mean it all is still relatively new new for us but I think that’s something that we’d like to touch on in the future get more involved in some social action areas.

S3: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Do you have like a five year plan for like the brand and the business.

S7: No I don’t.

S4: But Lindsay’s has had some meetings recently where they’ll sit down and sort of try to define the audience define the brand create a vision for it maybe an an even a name because her blog is Lindsay Silverman dot com. Yeah I mean I have the insta husband thing but that’s it’s not that’s really not the main cell. So I think she’s she’s at that pivotal point where these things are going to start to you’re going to start to see some changes coming down the road. So it’s a really exciting point. She’s working with some really great really smart people that work with incredible brands on building their brand and growing their brand. So. So stay tuned on that. They’ll be a little bit more in that area.

S3: That’s yeah. Real exciting. So is there like an insta husband space like do you guys have like I guess do you talk to each other like I’m really kind of interested in like with designation like does it become.

S4: Yeah. Usually you find the answers in space like at sunsets or Wynwood Walls in Miami or just like anywhere you can. You could take a good picture. There are some guys out there that that have there was an insta husband commercial Instagram husband commercial. Yeah but there’s no like there’s no forum yet.

S8: No read it. No but if you want to drop into my designs I can always I can always provide moral or moral support. After you’ve been laughed at and photographed by other people and but you know what I think what’s really cool is that you see people like John Legend. Yeah. Come on is Instagram taking pictures of Chrissy too.

S4: I mean what better person to personify the Instagram husband. Yeah. And who’s the other guy the other day it was Dwayne Wade. Was it Dwayne Wade. I think Dwayne Wade made to Gabrielle Union. Yeah. Was huge basketball player. That was pretty pressure as Dwayne Wade doing the Instagram thing. So it’s catching on in the celebrity world and I think that’s a catalyst to to start an Instagram husbands space. Yes. I think even women. I read an article where women in Asia look for picture taking abilities as a as a positive for a potential mate. Yeah right so maybe they’ll look at they’ll get his name and look at his Instagram but make sure he can take good pictures and now be something. So you know it’s catching on. People are starting to understand the value and appreciate it a little bit more and and now that it’s it’s with some of the celebrities it’s starting to gain a little bit of traction. So we’ll see.

S8: Do you feel vindicated. Yeah I guess yeah I guess I just I just will. I’ll do anything to support my wife and if that means embarrassing myself and making a thousand pictures and missing this sunset. You know it’s because you didn’t get a photo because I’m taking a photo or whatever it’s I’ve gotten used to it comes it comes a little bit more naturally now than it than it did in the past so yeah.

S3: How long I guess that that transition kind of takes you like at what point are you like this is something that I feel really comfortable doing. Two weeks ago.

S8: Long ago I found I found myself.

S4: We were we were in Central Park just near it and I was sitting on the lounge chair and I had my cast of a Toronto olives and a nice drink. And we were sitting next to the pool and the sun was setting and I was just laying in there and I had Lindsay’s iPhone and she was doing the walk along the pool and I’m just taking the pictures and I’m just sipping.

S7: I’m like wait a minute I think I got this down there. Yeah.

S4: I mean if you’re having a drink at the same time that’s you you’re good sipping a drink relaxing taking the picture. I’m multitasking. It’s a I think I’m finally starting to get the groove. The key is to use the iPhone and not necessarily the professional camera. I wouldn’t have guessed that. Yeah. I mean everything can be done with the iPhone and now the new one that came out with three has the three the three lenses on it wide short. Whatever whatever it is you don’t need these big cameras that you have to set up the tripod or you have you know it’s there heavy. Yeah. Now everything can be done on your phone. Yes pretty.

S3: Do you get this right off your phone and like camera equipment at the end of the year is like yes fences.

S4: Yeah. I mean it’s it is a business. I mean Lindsay has an LLC and it’s run just like any other corporation is is run so subchapter S corporation and it’s it’s the real deal accountants and me and the whole nine yards.

S3: So many people do you have like and unless it’s talent agency now. But how many people do you all work with.

S4: So she she just started with the talent agency like you. Like you said she has another photographer that she uses. You know if I’m not available shout out to Laurel creative she’s great. And then my younger brother. Who is a super senior at Rowan University is her video editor. Oh so anytime you see videos on her Instagram feed it’s it’s my younger shout out to Alex the whole family. Yeah it’s a it’s a family business. And then there’s an accountant and then there’s there’s an outside lawyer who we’ve used in the past and there’s myself there’s Britney who is a consultant for her for her business and then she’s working with another brand consulting agency too. So there are more people than you than you expected involved. Yeah. Not to mention all the PR people and the brand people and everything. It’s a it’s a big collaborative effort.

S3: That sounds like a lot to keep track of.

S8: It is. Yeah. She does a great job. Yeah. Shut out balance. Thank you so much for coming on. Well thank you Rachel I appreciate it.

S2: That’s it for this episode of Working. Thanks for listening. I’m your host Rachel Hanson special things to Justin de right for the music. Thank you so much to our producer adjustment Molly. Please remember at a rate review and subscribe on Apple podcast. And if you have any questions or feedback you can reach us at working at Slate dot com. Join us next week for another episode on influencers.