Succession S4 Ep9: Church and State

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Speaker A: This ad free podcast is part of your Slate Plus membership.

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the penultimate ever episode of Slate Money Succession.

Speaker A: The is nearly nigh, but we have two amazing episodes.

Speaker A: I’m absolutely sure the last one’s going to be amazing.

Speaker A: This one was amazing.

Speaker A: Of succession to cover before it’s all over.

Speaker A: I am Felix Salmon of Axios.

Speaker A: I’m here with Emily Peck of Axios.


Speaker B: Hello.

Speaker A: With Elizabeth Spires of the New York Times and other places.

Speaker C: Hello.

Speaker A: And our special guest this week, Abby Disney.

Speaker A: Welcome.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker C: Happy to be here.

Speaker A: Abby, introduce yourself.

Speaker A: Who are you and what is your relationship to this year’s show?

Speaker C: Let’s see.

Speaker C: Who am I?

Speaker C: I’m a filmmaker and an activist and my great uncle was Walt Disney.

Speaker C: My grandfather Roy Disney.

Speaker C: So I lived a little bit of this succession life, let’s just say.

Speaker A: Do you think that the Roy family surname was named after Roy Disney?


Speaker C: It had to be.

Speaker C: They have amusement park.

Speaker C: And I was thinking I was crazy, but I actually was on a zoom call with Jesse Armstrong and I was like, Am I out of my mind?

Speaker C: And he was in his library and he reached behind him, he pulled Disney Wars off the bookshelf.


Speaker C: So I felt at least like I wasn’t crazy because we’re not like them in a million ways.

Speaker C: We are so much nicer.

Speaker C: And of course, we haven’t kept control of the company.

Speaker C: I mean, that’s the most key thing.

Speaker C: And isn’t that ultimately the critique of these family empires?


Speaker A: When did the Disney family lose control of Disney Corp?

Speaker C: My father had a couple of different fights with the company around leadership.

Speaker C: One in the in the audience and this last one in the audience.

Speaker C: He sort of left the board and then didn’t insist on someone staying behind in terms of family.

Speaker C: So that was the end of that.

Speaker C: And what CEO would ever ask us back in some kind of suicide?

Speaker A: Lucas Matson being the answer to that question.

Speaker C: Maybe I feel a little I could probably have some sparks with Lucas too, but maybe they’d just all be on my end.


Speaker A: So this is quite the episode again written by Jesse Armstrong, longer than most.

Speaker A: I think it’s 72 minutes and no pre credit sequence.

Speaker A: Just dives straight in there.

Speaker A: And so much happens in this episode.

Speaker A: We’ll go through it all.

Speaker A: But to your point to what’s happening between Shiv and Matson now we have the thing we’ve been waiting for all season, which is the three siblings coming apart and all going their own sort of individual separate ways.

Speaker A: Roman most disastrously, but Shiv now has a clear alliance with Matson.

Speaker A: She seems to be in pole position to take over not only the CEO of Wastaroiko, but in fact there’s CEO of the merged of Gojo after it acquires Wastaroiko as a kind of SOP to the regulatory concerns that Menken claimed to have.


Speaker A: So she’s on the ups and kendall is gearing up to fight her.

Speaker A: Emily, what do you make of this?

Speaker B: I thought this was a great episode to have Abby on because it’s a funeral, which is emotions are raw, as we come to see with Roman, and the siblings are apart at the beginning of the episode, but they sort of come together a bit in the funeral when emotions get really hot.

Speaker B: You can see that they love each other.

Speaker A: It’s really clear they do comfort each other when Roman breaks down.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker B: But at the same time, they’re in this bitter war and the lines are really drawn so starkly and clearly in the episode.


Speaker B: It’s this really good setup for the core issue here, which is this is a family that also has a business and it’s just not a compatible situation.

Speaker B: And that all comes to light in this episode.

Speaker D: Everybody in this show views the funeral as a kind of business, a crucial business opportunity, from Lincoln to Cousin Greg.

Speaker D: It sort of works on two levels.

Speaker D: You know that there’s going to be some crazy manipulations happening in the middle of a deadly serious funeral.

Speaker A: My favorite line is when Caroline talks about her husband and says he’s now going to roll around like a Labrador in a lovely pile of senators.


Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: It’s like this great networking event.

Speaker B: And Roman’s fatal flaw is that he actually expresses like he can’t control himself and his emotions come to the fore.


Speaker B: And that’s like his downfall at the business event, which is also his father’s funeral.

Speaker B: Whoa.

Speaker A: Roman, like, every time he’s had any success on this show, and there have been they all have their moments of success, but Romans are always more one on one, especially the Roman mankin relationship.

Speaker A: They have that very odd sort of quasi sexual thing going on when they’re just meeting the two of them.


Speaker A: But Roman in public is just not he doesn’t work at all.

Speaker C: Clearly, he’s the baby of the family, so he kind of doesn’t do well in crowds and doesn’t do well, like when he has to kind of actually back up all this insult and bravado and everything like that.

Speaker C: And he just was so exposed.

Speaker C: And of course, he had the breakdown we were all waiting for him to have for four years.

Speaker D: Anyway, he’s also notoriously bad at controlling his emotions generally, but we usually see it come out with him hotheadedly, firing someone on impulse or just declaring in this very authoritarian way that something’s going to happen because he’s the boss.


Speaker D: And I think this is maybe the first maybe not the first time, but where you see him unable to control his more vulnerable side.

Speaker B: It’s such a turnaround from the previous episode where he seemed to come out on top right.

Speaker B: He got his man essentially elected president, and he thought he had this huge win.

Speaker B: And Kendall was anxious because Roman had the upper hand.

Speaker B: And it’s just completely unraveled in this episode, and it’s from top to bottom.


Speaker B: Right.

Speaker B: Because it opens with Roman in his apartment, sort of going over a speech and all puffed up and proud of himself, and it ends with him laying in the street, basically.


Speaker D: Right.

Speaker A: Can we just yeah.

Speaker A: Very quickly, Abby, since you’re the representative.

Speaker C: Of the demographic yes.

Speaker A: Can we ask about that walking closet?

Speaker A: Because that was this is actually the whole taffy question about, like, is succession actually aspirational that walking closet for anyone who doesn’t have a walking closet, like, that was aspirational.

Speaker C: Yes, it’s very aspirational, especially if you live in New York City.

Speaker C: My God, the square footage insane.

Speaker C: I mean, I’ve seen closets like that for sure in New York.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker C: I’ve seen more than one of them.

Speaker C: It’s a sign when you have a lot of money, you don’t need to show it off.

Speaker C: It’s just implied.

Speaker C: And so your closet is a private space.

Speaker C: It’s like a place for you to revel in.

Speaker C: You’re at square footage that you can afford that nobody else can.

Speaker B: Your color coded blazers.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: And your place where you practice your speech in the full length mirror.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: That’s such a New Yorker perspective on it, because regular people have nice walkie closets in some of their homes outside of New York.

Speaker C: It’s just you can’t do it here.

Speaker A: Maybe this is true.

Speaker A: Maybe I’ve just been living in a weird, like, New York bubble the whole time.


Speaker A: And in fact, if I were to live in St.

Speaker A: Louis, then that walking closet would not be aspirational just your walking closet.

Speaker B: Any closet is aspirational in New York City, I think.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: If you’re not keeping your clothes in the oven, then you’re doing well.

Speaker B: You’ve made it.

Speaker A: The way that Roman falls apart and is immediately comforted by his siblings, the breakdown is recorded.

Speaker A: Carl and Frank start gleefully, like, playing it back, and Jerry, who has been Roman’s great antagonist over the course of this season, is the one who kind of comes to his defense and feels sorry for him and says, like, guys, come on, you’re going too far.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was genuinely sad, wasn’t it?

Speaker C: I mean, it was a real breakdown.

Speaker C: And it’s not just this season.

Speaker C: He’s been heading for it it’s all along, since the beginning.

Speaker C: You cannot look at him and think, oh, my God, you are a sick puppy.

Speaker C: You are really going to have problems at some point in your life.

Speaker C: So that was a big breakdown, and it was like four seasons worth of just chaotic emotional state.

Speaker C: And I think one of the things that creates such entitled people in wealthy, wealthy families is nobody says no to children enough, and they very often don’t fully grow up.

Speaker C: And he’s a great example of somebody who has access to all the sex and the drugs and the money and everything else, and he’s not a grown up, and he doesn’t have grown up capacities.


Speaker C: So, yeah, I found it heartbreaking.

Speaker C: Even if he’s sort of hateful eulogy.

Speaker A: Was a little bit about Logan saying no most of the time to most people and then occasionally opening up the window to the sunlight or whatever the metaphor was and allowing people to bask in it briefly before closing it off again.

Speaker C: Her eulogy was a little bit I mean, I’m so glad she talked about what it was like to be a daughter specifically because yeah, you just definitely don’t feel like you can be contained in their heads.

Speaker C: They don’t understand you.

Speaker C: She did a good job of explaining what was great about him while also telling the truth.

Speaker D: Yeah, the way she described it where she said he couldn’t fit a whole woman in his head, I thought was just a great way to articulate the way some men are just incapable of seeing women as full humans.

Speaker D: And she’s saying this about her father, but then she says, but you did an okay job, inherently misogynistic.

Speaker D: You were a decent dad.

Speaker B: It’s so different from how I was noticing how she talks to and about her mother, who is equally as, isn’t loving or caring and is mean and awful, just like Logan, but she doesn’t give her the same kind of generosity as she gives her father in that speech.

Speaker B: You know what I mean?

Speaker B: It’s like she’s just as misogynistic as everyone else in a way.

Speaker B: It’s just expecting more from her mother, I think, and hating her more for not getting it.


Speaker C: And her mother didn’t have anything to give her.

Speaker C: The mother wasn’t the rich one, the mother wasn’t the famous one.

Speaker C: And so if she wasn’t loving, then what was she good for?

Speaker B: Just mean comments.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker A: So, I mean, we can all be rude about Caroline, but Caroline came through like that amazing stroke of genius where she cut what the Brits call the wags, the wives and girlfriends, where she just lines them all up next to each other and says, logan would hate this.

Speaker A: I mean, that was awesome.

Speaker B: Delicious.

Speaker B: Good.

Speaker C: Very good.

Speaker A: Ultimately.

Speaker A: Cause it’s a reproshmont between Marcia and Kerry.

Speaker C: Pretty shocking handholding going on in that pew.

Speaker D: That that scene was so well written when she says, you know, this is Sally Anne and you think it’s her introducing Carrie to somebody in these elite circles.

Speaker D: And then she says to Marcia, Sally Ann was my Carrie and that was just mind boggling.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, Sally Anne has been hinted at throughout the series.

Speaker B: They’re always dropping her.

Speaker B: Not always, but they’ve a few times dropped the name Sally Anne.

Speaker B: So I’ve often wondered who the h*** Sally Anne is?

Speaker B: Is she dead?

Speaker C: Did Logan kill this woman?

Speaker C: Who is she?

Speaker B: And so I was glad they finally revealed that mystery and also revealed the mystery of Logan’s sister, Rose.

Speaker A: Yeah, we didn’t see Connor’s mum, though, who might be dead, we don’t know.


Speaker A: I feel like she must be locked up somewhere.

Speaker C: She’s in the booby hatch, isn’t she?

Speaker C: A poor baby.

Speaker C: They just threw away the key.

Speaker A: But yeah.

Speaker A: So we find out from Ewan about Rose, who, it turns out, died as, like, a baby.

Speaker A: And Logan’s uncle and aunt allowed him to believe that it was his fault.

Speaker A: Ewan, how does he describe his uncle?

Speaker A: A character which is basically, I think, is his way of saying those scars on Logan’s back probably came from the uncle.

Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker C: I mean, and they’ve spoken of him before that he was cruel, cruel man.

Speaker C: So it wasn’t good.

Speaker A: Elizabeth, what did you think?

Speaker A: What did you make of the UN speech?

Speaker D: Well, it’s funny that I felt like UN speech was a little bit of an inversion of what ended up being Shivs and Kendall’s speech, because he starts out with these things that make you feel a little bit sympathetic toward Logan.

Speaker D: They humanize him a little bit.

Speaker D: You feel terrible for him.

Speaker D: Whenever they mentioned that the aunt and uncle never disabused him of the notion that he killed his sister.

Speaker D: And then he goes straight into and because of that, he’s done all these horrible things in the world.

Speaker D: And Kendall and Chip, by contrast, they take a moment to acknowledge something terrible about their father.

Speaker D: But the speeches are overwhelmingly saying, here’s the terrible thing, but everything else was good.

Speaker D: And for Kendall, it’s saying he really was brood.


Speaker D: I agree with Yuan.

Speaker D: And for Shiv, he was hard on women, but he was fine to me.

Speaker D: So I think the UN speech really set up the other two to be more poignant, I guess.

Speaker D: But you don’t come away from it thinking that Yuan was a total a****** for saying it, because you know that it’s fundamentally true.

Speaker C: The other two, I didn’t find poignant.

Speaker C: Kendall’s speech, I found beautifully written.

Speaker C: But if you really listen to it, it’s the ultimate defense of capitalism for its own sake.

Speaker C: So, yeah, my father did these awful things, but he also what is it?

Speaker C: He made money ambitious to make and own and desire things.

Speaker C: I mean, it’s everything bad about a highly consumerist material culture.

Speaker C: But Ewan, what he was critiquing was everything that comes as a result of the materialist culture.

Speaker C: They were perfectly in opposition to each other, which is why it’s so interesting.

Speaker C: You started with the hard things, which are reasons, not excuses, right.

Speaker C: And then goes on to the real critique.

Speaker A: But I feel like Ken was the only one who read the assignment.

Speaker A: He was the one who came up and gave this incredible Ann Randian speech about great geezers of life he willed, and if we can’t match his vim, then God knows the future will be sluggish and gray.

Speaker A: And he is clearly directing that speech at the assorted sentences and grandees and powerful people in the room, but especially at menken.

Speaker A: And it lands with Menkin, and suddenly with one speech.


Speaker A: The thing that Kendall was worried about last episode was that the Menken relationship was with Roman and not with him.

Speaker A: And he’s like, I don’t feel comfortable about this.

Speaker A: I need to own this relationship.

Speaker A: I can’t have Roman owning the relationship.

Speaker A: Roman then dissolves into a puddle of tears, which is the weakest and most pathetic thing you can do in the eyes of someone like Menken at a funeral.

Speaker A: And Kendall comes in and gives this red and tooth and claw capitalist speech, which is music to Menkin’s ears.

Speaker A: And so Menken immediately basically dumps Roman, moves to the other brothers.

Speaker A: There’s good speech.

Speaker A: But then just as Kendall tries to capitalize on this new political capital that he’s built up with Menken, suddenly the whole family starts warming him and he can’t get a word in edgewise.

Speaker A: And it’s Shiv who comes in and says quietly, I can be your extraction team.

Speaker A: Which is such a great line.

Speaker C: It’s such a good line.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: You really do feel like he’s a little bit delighted he’s been rescued from those oddballs and freaks.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker A: I don’t think that Shiv could have manufactured that meeting with Matson so easily if it wasn’t for Connor.

Speaker A: And really needing to get away from what was that great line from Connor about?

Speaker C: Oh, my God, my favorite one.

Speaker A: American led EU alternative, which is so glorious.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker A: Let’s bring back the Austro Hungarian empire.

Speaker B: There was just a Times piece about one of the Hapsburgs.


Speaker D: They’re all the same.

Speaker D: What’s up, too?

Speaker D: It was just an amazing fact.

Speaker B: Poor Kendall, he gains leverage for about 5 seconds, but he’s not done gaining leverage.

Speaker A: Well, now he has leverage.

Speaker A: Hugo.

Speaker B: Hugo.

Speaker A: I feel if all the people you need leverage over, hugo is not top of the list.

Speaker A: He’s lost Jess, which he is not happy about.

Speaker B: Oh, let’s talk about Jess.

Speaker D: But also we need to talk about.

Speaker A: Colin because he yes, trying to get Colin back.

Speaker A: Colin has zero desire to work for Kendall, but Kendall’s like, no, I need you inside the tent, p****** out.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: I thought Colin was kind of delighted with the idea of working for Kendall.

Speaker C: I didn’t get that he was reluctant.

Speaker C: I mean, after that speech, I think Colin was all aboard.

Speaker A: Oh, really?

Speaker A: I took it the exact other way when Kendall says, I want you to work for me, and Colin immediately says, I don’t love it, which is the closest he can.

Speaker C: He didn’t love his little quasi retirement, I thought.

Speaker B: Yeah, he doesn’t love quasi retirement and therapy.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And Kendall’s like, well, don’t talk to your therapist, talk to me.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: It’s like, what, chilling.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: That’s not going to help in terms.

Speaker A: Of the people who know about Kendall’s quasi murderous history.

Speaker A: Kendall did finally come clean to his siblings at the end of last season.


Speaker A: But really it was Logan and Colin, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Logan’s dead now, and Kendall needs Colin not to make that public.

Speaker C: Yeah, not to squeal.

Speaker B: That was my takeaway.

Speaker B: Like, you can’t be in therapy talking about your secrets or my secrets.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Instead, just work for me.

Speaker B: And plus, Kendall’s vulnerable now without Jess, which we will talk about.

Speaker B: So he needs, like, a new someone to be around for him.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: Emily, Kendall and Jess.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker B: So in the last episode, there was this scene where Jess was without Kendall, and she runs into Greg as Greg’s about to deliver this news that they’re going to declare Manken the president.

Speaker B: And there’s like this pause in this moment between the two of them where you can see that Jess is not excited about Menken becoming president.

Speaker B: He’s this white nationalist.

Speaker B: Jess is the only, I think only black character, definitely the most prominent black character on this show, which is all pretty much all white people.

Speaker B: And there’s just this moment you could tell she’s not happy.

Speaker B: And of course, Greg doesn’t care, goes and does this thing or whatever.

Speaker B: And now in this episode, Jess quits.

Speaker B: And I think the implication is pretty between the lines that she’s quitting because of Mankin, because what happened.

Speaker B: Like, she can’t live with it.

Speaker B: There’s this really good interview with the actress who plays Jess in Vulture, where she kind of talks about it, and she can’t do it anymore because she can’t pretend that this doesn’t involve her or something.


Speaker B: So she’s taking a stand, but she’s not taking a big enough stand where she would actually admit she’s doing that to Kendall, which is sort of interesting, too.

Speaker B: What did you guys think?

Speaker A: Kendall gets it right?

Speaker A: The first thing he asked pretty much, is this because of Menken?

Speaker A: And she doesn’t say yes, but she doesn’t say no.

Speaker A: She basically allows she doesn’t disabuse him of that notion, let’s say.

Speaker B: I like that.

Speaker C: He forces her to tell him right in that moment and then walks away saying, thanks for telling me now.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Well, she could have put it on his calendar after the funeral, right?

Speaker B: I mean, she probably wanted yeah, that’s true.

Speaker B: Wanted it to come out well.

Speaker C: He was rummaging through his calendar, looking for dates to meet with lawyers to seize custody of his children.

Speaker C: After all, how petty and awful is that?

Speaker C: He’s horrible.

Speaker C: He’s just so horrible.

Speaker C: I mean, this is the episode where Kendall becomes the killer that Logan tells him he has to be.

Speaker C: That’s why Colin’s important.

Speaker C: That’s why Jess is leaving.

Speaker C: That’s why he wants to take custody of his children.

Speaker C: He’s stepping into that, whatever you want.

Speaker B: To call it, patriarchal becoming.

Speaker A: But this is where Kendall, he does that thing that he’s been doing from season one, which is like blustering.

Speaker A: And I’m going to go to court to get an emergency court order, or I’m going to lie down in front of the thing.


Speaker A: You’re going to have to run me over.

Speaker A: And then, of course, he can’t follow through on any of those threats.

Speaker A: And that’s the huge difference between Kendall and Logan, is that Logan follows through.

Speaker A: If he makes a threat, he does it.

Speaker A: If Kendall makes a threat, he just lets the car drive away with his children not going to their granddad’s funeral.

Speaker B: Well, that’s a big question for the final episode.

Speaker B: Is Kendall going to finally make good on his threats or not?

Speaker B: Because sometimes he can pull it off.

Speaker B: Remember when he fired all those people at what was the name?

Speaker C: Walter.

Speaker A: Walter.

Speaker C: Walter.

Speaker B: Remember he pulled off the big mass firing at vaulter?

Speaker B: That was pretty killer.

Speaker A: Whereas Roman can’t do the big public speeches.

Speaker A: Kendall, weirdly, always does seem to be able to rise to the occasion, right?

Speaker A: He does the speech to the vault of people.

Speaker A: He kind of nails it.

Speaker A: He did the speech a couple of episodes ago to the shareholders, making Living Plus seem like it was a good idea somehow.

Speaker A: Even the 40th birthday speech, which was shaping up to be a disaster.

Speaker A: He doesn’t do a disastrous song there.

Speaker A: The rap was not a bad rap at his dad’s birthday party.

Speaker B: Come on.

Speaker B: I mean, that’s like 50% of the CEO job, right?

Speaker B: Is just like saying just like, bullshitting in public on command.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: It’s amazing how much of business at the top top is just bullshit, people.


Speaker C: Just bullshitting.

Speaker D: Yeah, well, Shiv kind of acknowledges that when Matson’s coming up with the objections for her as CEO.

Speaker D: And he says, well, they say she’s incredibly inexperienced, and she’s like, I’m a comms professional.

Speaker D: I know how to control this narrative.

Speaker D: So she makes the argument that that’s the primary qualification there’s argument that she’s not incorrect.

Speaker B: But her big idea, Elizabeth, is just bury the news on a big news day.

Speaker B: I could have come up with that.

Speaker C: Idea, too.

Speaker A: But it worked.

Speaker A: I mean, number one number one, this is a great day to bury bad news is literally verbatim the email that got that woman fired after 911.

Speaker A: But number two, this was the big thing that we’ve been worried about for the past few episodes, right?

Speaker A: Is that what happens to Gojo stock when these numbers come out?

Speaker A: If the Gojo stock implodes, then suddenly the deal is off.

Speaker A: She manages to get the news out at a point when no one really cares, and evidently it hasn’t hurt the Gojo stock.

Speaker A: And therefore, this whole thing that everyone was really worried about turns out to be a little bit of a nothing burger.

Speaker A: And the merger, as far as anyone can tell, is still on.

Speaker B: Wait, Felix, can you remind me about the 911 email?

Speaker B: Because I don’t remember that.

Speaker A: So that was a woman.

Speaker A: I believe she was in the UK.

Speaker A: Abbey, nothing along you remember this, where basically a couple of hours after the planes hit on 911, she was like, in comms, and she sends out an email to her clients basically saying, this would be a really good day to bury bad news.


Speaker C: Oh, my God.

Speaker B: Don’t put it in an email, lady.

Speaker B: Okay, thank you for explaining.

Speaker E: Hey, listeners, it’s Lizzie O’Leary from Slate’s.

Speaker E: What next, TPD?

Speaker E: I want to tell you about an exciting event we are doing with our friends at the Waves.

Speaker E: Do you love Succession?

Speaker E: If you want to deep dive into the show’s feminist heroes and villains and hear smart women investigate the fashion, power and relationship dynamics of one of HBO’s most successful shows, join us for a very special Women of Succession virtual event.

Speaker E: It’s hosted by me, and it is exclusively for Slate Plus members.

Speaker E: It’s on Tuesday, May 23, at 05:00 p.m..

Speaker E: Eastern, and you can sign up slash Wavesvent.

Speaker E: See you then.

Speaker A: I need to talk because I am the official English person on this show, the absolutely the most English thing that has ever happened on any TV show ever, which was Caroline immediately realizing, unlike any other character in the show, that Shiv was pregnant.

Speaker A: And then I wrote down her words because it’s like, it’s so perfect.

Speaker A: She goes, oh, are you okay?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker A: Blimey.

Speaker A: Well, I never.

Speaker A: Well, then well, exactly.

Speaker C: Beautiful.

Speaker A: It’s some of the greatest writing I’ve ever come across.

Speaker B: Why?

Speaker B: What does it mean?

Speaker A: It’s how the emotionally stunted English communicate with each other by using these words that you have to be either English or, I guess, the daughter of an English woman to be able to understand what they mean.


Speaker C: It’s so very motherly for her to see it immediately when she’s been walking among all these other people and Roman says, I thought you were just eating your feelings.

Speaker C: For her to see it and know it like that is very motherly.

Speaker C: But then, yeah, it’s a very British reaction, for sure.

Speaker B: Or Shiv.

Speaker B: No one usually when you become pregnant and, like, you’re not a teenage girl or something and you tell people, they’re like, oh, my God, that’s amazing.

Speaker B: A little Shiv is cut, whatever.

Speaker B: Not one person reacts positively to her news, including Tom, her mother, her brother, her brothers, who says roman says, Is it mine?

Speaker B: Which is so gross.

Speaker C: I know.

Speaker C: He said, well, if I want you breastfeeding, I’m going to have to.

Speaker C: Such a sick little puppy.

Speaker B: Unbelievable.

Speaker B: But no one yeah, no one gives her any positive feedback.

Speaker B: And then she says to Matson later, oh, I’m a killer.

Speaker B: I just need 36 hours of maternity leave.

Speaker B: And then someone else will raise it.

Speaker B: She keeps calling it it, which is just like it’s just awful.

Speaker B: It’s just you know, there’s like, another generation it’s just setting up the next generation of emotionally stunted for people.

Speaker A: Well, there’s that amazing exchange between Caroline and Tom where Caroline she might not congratulate Shift, but she does congratulate Tom.

Speaker A: And she’s like, Hold on, you.

Speaker C: He has.

Speaker A: And Tom is like, well, if it weren’t such a total f****** disaster, it would be a dream come true.


Speaker C: That’s not the line you want when you’re planning your future with your beautiful new baby.

Speaker B: Just want to be like, we’re so excited.

Speaker B: Something normal.

Speaker C: Everything is positional, everything is transactional.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker C: That’s wealthy families.

Speaker C: I mean, you have to work really hard not to reduce everything to a transaction or a position.

Speaker C: It takes exceptional emotional intelligence to kind of create a world that isn’t that.

Speaker C: And so most families fail and some succeed partially.

Speaker C: But the succession is a story about a family that has zero capacity to hold the transactioning and their positioning at bay.

Speaker C: So a baby in any kind of succession related show means a lot.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker A: Talking about the Habsburgs, right?

Speaker A: It’s it’s all about, like, you know, getting the line of succession quite literally in terms of, like, make make sure there’s another generation to take over.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: And there’s never been a better argument for ending hereditary rules than succession.

Speaker B: And then I feel like over and over, Shiv just kept saying, like, I’m just going to give it to someone else to take care of.

Speaker B: And that just seems the crux of all the problems.

Speaker C: She was being sarcastic, but honestly, when she says to Matson, but I’ll be the CEO and don’t worry, 36 hours in the invisible Caesarean or something, I’ve.

Speaker B: Had.

Speaker A: Also, by the way, of all the people who worked out that Shiv was pregnant, like, Matson worked it out.

Speaker C: I think he heard it from someone.


Speaker A: Who would he have heard it from?

Speaker B: Well, the brothers.

Speaker B: Hugo apparently has a line to Ebba, right.

Speaker A: The Hugo Ebba connect was like, whoa.

Speaker B: Yeah, that’s surprising, isn’t it, where Ebba.

Speaker A: Is just, like, so angry at Matson that she’s like, anything I can do to hurt him, I’m just going to back channel to Hugo.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that’s what’s going on.

Speaker B: And Shiv went public, so the information or it could be Greg, too.

Speaker A: I don’t think Greg knew.

Speaker C: Oh, my God.

Speaker C: Greg.

Speaker C: Tom.

Speaker C: Greg.

Speaker A: Shiv only tells her brothers in the car there, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, but she told Tom already the day before.

Speaker B: So Tom could have told Greg.

Speaker C: Tom tells Greg everything.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then Greg probably told Matson because that’s what he does.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: All I know is Matson called Greg sexy and yes, he said, thank you, that’s very kind.

Speaker C: That when his uncle sits down next to him after his eulogy.

Speaker C: He says, that was a good, hard take.

Speaker B: Greg has zero.

Speaker B: He has no soul whatsoever, which he he in the previous season.

Speaker B: He would need the soul.

Speaker B: And it’s really playing out.

Speaker B: Like, every episode.

Speaker D: Greg is like, maybe has emerged as my favorite character because anytime he enters a scene, you know something hilarious is going to happen.

Speaker D: And even just biking on a city bike to get to the funeral.


Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: I was impressed, man.

Speaker A: Clearly, if all s*** is going down on the streets of Manhattan, the way to get to the church is by city bike.

Speaker C: I.

Speaker A: Did.

Speaker B: Felix would be into that.

Speaker B: I was like, oh, Felix is going to love this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker A: It’s the 10th anniversary of City Bike.

Speaker A: People, and I have taken over 2000 City Bike rides in that time.

Speaker B: Very good.

Speaker B: So to any funerals.

Speaker A: But to my knowledge, no.

Speaker B: Well, there’s still time.

Speaker A: There’s still time.

Speaker B: So someone needs to explain to me, because I’m Jewish and everyone gets buried under the ground, what the h*** is going on with Logan Roy’s?

Speaker B: What is that?

Speaker B: That’s a mausoleum.

Speaker C: It’s a mausoleum.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker C: And he bought it?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker C: At a discount.

Speaker A: And it was built by, again.

Speaker D: Points out that it may be a tax write off because it’s maybe a residence.

Speaker A: I believe it is a Greenwood cemetery in Brooklyn.

Speaker D: Yeah, it looks like it.

Speaker A: And Greenwood does have its fair share of such things.

Speaker A: I think technically, what happens is that if cat food Ozzy Mandyus decides he doesn’t want it after all, it has to revert back to the cemetery, and then the cemetery will then sell it back to Logan.

Speaker A: They kind of made it sound like Logan bought it from Ozzy Mandalus.

Speaker A: But this is my favorite factoid of New York City law, is that if you want to transfer or sell your plot in a cemetery, specifically at Greenwood, to someone else, you can do so.


Speaker A: Only if I love this so much.

Speaker A: The person you are transferring it to is within three degrees of consanguinity.

Speaker C: Oh, my God.

Speaker A: Isn’t that awesome?

Speaker A: That’s another, like, Habsburgian touch there.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker B: What does that mean?

Speaker B: I’m sorry.

Speaker A: Basically, he has a second cousin.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Well, I don’t think Logan might related to that.

Speaker C: Well, he had the cool five mil, so who’s going to I love Connors.

Speaker D: It’s like 5 million, but it’s like, forever.

Speaker C: Good deal.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: There’s no maintenance charges, but the size.

Speaker C: Of it he’s clearly presuming that everybody’s got to want to be buried with him.

Speaker C: And I don’t think anybody shared with him that that was wrong.

Speaker A: Like Connor wants connor and Roman.

Speaker A: I’m going to have to check with Willa, but I wouldn’t mind having a bunk.

Speaker C: Yeah, that’s true.

Speaker C: That’s true.

Speaker B: I’m sorry again.

Speaker B: Mausoleum.

Speaker B: What exactly happens?

Speaker C: So you just get you’re just in the drawer on well, actually, the star of the show is in a casket inside that, like, stone square, that big.

Speaker A: Western marble crypt thing.

Speaker C: So you go ahead and decompose.

Speaker C: But Connor says he didn’t want to go in the ground, which is so Ozzy mandius.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker C: I’m too good for that.

Speaker C: Everybody else decays underground.

Speaker C: I’m going to decay just in my box here, and then everybody else goes in the drawer nearby.


Speaker C: And it’s so set up to understand that this is the guy you care about.

Speaker C: Nobody spends any time over there reading those names on those side ones.

Speaker C: Who gives a s*** about those people?

Speaker C: Let’s just keep things where they ought to be.

Speaker A: Do you think, like, Marcia wants to wind up in there as well.

Speaker C: No way.

Speaker C: Marcia is going to find a new boyfriend and live happily girlfriend.

Speaker A: I reckon that Peter and Caroline definitely want in.

Speaker B: Peter definitely does.

Speaker C: Peter does.

Speaker C: Maybe it’s just Peter and Roman who wind up in there.

Speaker A: Peter and Connor.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, I don’t know.

Speaker C: I see Connor like, getting his ashes spread in all sorts of weird.

Speaker A: Well, no, he was really into cryogenics.

Speaker C: Oh, that’s true.

Speaker B: Crazy for cryogenics.

Speaker B: Crazy.

Speaker C: I really love that.

Speaker C: At the very last second, Shiv says, well, I’m really intrigued to see how he gets out of this one.

Speaker B: I like that too.

Speaker D: Very funny.

Speaker B: I was thinking how the Caroline Peter Munyan marriage is very much like the Shiv Tom marriage in that Caroline’s constantly out there undermining him to whoever she can talk to and just like making nasty digs at her husband who’s a social climber.

Speaker B: It’s the same marriage, right.

Speaker A: Is Shiv that rude about Tom to other people?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, that was the plot of the election tally party.

Speaker B: She was going around undermining him, mr.


Speaker C: Mild, not too spicy or whatever.

Speaker C: She said, yeah, if I said that about my husband in front of mixed company, I’d be like sleeping on the couch for days.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: And she said, you’re spreading rumors that.

Speaker D: Your husband was going to be fired from your family.

Speaker B: So that was sort of interesting.

Speaker B: It’s the same dynamic.

Speaker A: Abby, I wanted to ask you about the sales pitch that Matson gives to Menken because that was super interesting to me.

Speaker A: Basically, Menken is like some m************ I don’t want in the tent.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker A: He’s like, I am a N*** and so I want to hang out with other Nazis.

Speaker A: Matson then says to him, we are making the thing that everyone has.

Speaker A: It’s either a couple of tiny men in your pocket or a gateway to broad cultural influence.

Speaker A: He’s basically saying you can own Kendall and Roman.

Speaker A: Like, clearly you can boss them around and get what you want and they can be your loudspeaker and they are not going to get to call attunes or if you don’t block the deal, then you can have all of Gojo.

Speaker A: You can have a relationship with something which is actually culturally much more relevant.

Speaker A: And from Menken’s point of view, it seems like from the call that Matson makes to Shiv, that he is convinced he would rather have a grown up relationship with Matson and Shiv where he gets access to the makers of culture so that he can turn America into a N*** paradise, whatever his dream is, rather than just having a mouthpiece in Asian.


Speaker C: Yeah, I thought it was interesting because part of what he said was, I have what everybody wants and very few people understand how it works.

Speaker C: There is a way in which even the most broad internet communication is still a little bit lending itself to the N*** worldview that only a handful of people should be in charge of it.

Speaker C: And I thought he was sort of offering that.

Speaker C: I a swede who says vilkom into you when you walk up to me will be one of the few people don’t you want somebody like me to be with you in being the few people who understand this?

Speaker A: Right, exactly.

Speaker A: If you’re a politician and you’re being offered an alliance with Mark Zuckerberg, you will take it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker A: Because Mark Zuckerberg has the ability to shape history.

Speaker A: And the whole Cambridge Analytica thing was basically was that hacked by someone else?

Speaker A: But no one doubts whether or not there was any truth to that.

Speaker A: No one doubts that if Zuckerberg wanted to shape history by twiddling the algorithm, he could.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: So he who controls the algorithm controls the world.

Speaker C: And I thought that was what Matson was saying in that that’s what he was offering up.

Speaker C: And if you feel better with a girl and an American as a CEO, that’s fine.

Speaker C: That’s fine.

Speaker B: I felt like Shiv was really coming into an Ivanka space in this episode.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker B: Like, swallowing her so called progressive ideals and just going along because this is where the power is.


Speaker B: I mean, she basically says as much.

Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker A: My dad was flexible.

Speaker A: I can be flexible.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: Something to aspire to.

Speaker D: I think Ivanka is more flexible than Shiv, though.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: There is no limit.

Speaker A: I mean, I think we saw in this episode that there is no limit to how flexible Shiv can become.

Speaker A: Like, she was the one who refused who has almost refused to stand next to Mengan at that photo op in the last season.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker A: And now she’s like, yeah, I can work with you.

Speaker A: Yeah, she’s come a long way.

Speaker C: Well, let’s see.

Speaker C: The last time she was inflexible was on the election night coverage, and look what it got her.

Speaker C: Total failure.

Speaker C: So maybe she’s incorporating that lesson, or maybe it’s just a short term thing to get the Matson deal to go through.

Speaker C: I mean, I think she cares more about the Matson deal going through because she has a line on power there.

Speaker A: If she can get the Matson deal to go through and become massively wealthy because the Matson deal goes through and they get $3 billion each or whatever it is, and she winds up as CEO of the combined company, then that is the greatest conceivable win for any of Logan’s heirs.

Speaker A: And in a TV show called Succession, clearly she becomes the successor and she is running an even bigger company, and she is CEO, and the other two siblings are nowhere.

Speaker A: I feel like the chances of this happening in the next one episode that we have left are slim.


Speaker A: But that’s clearly the dream.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: I’m so curious what they’re going to do next week because there are so many loose ends that need tying off.

Speaker B: It seems like they’re setting up Shiv versus Kendall in terms of who gets to be in charge.

Speaker B: But just knowing the show for the past few years, they always lose these kids.

Speaker B: So I can’t imagine them winning in the next episode.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: Oh, no.

Speaker C: I feel like I saw Kendall step into it and there felt like a real possibility that maybe he could change himself enough to fit into it.

Speaker D: There’s always a lot of misdirection in the episodes, but my gut is still Kendall.

Speaker D: Because the first season focused so heavily on him, everything seemed to revolve around him.

Speaker D: And I think if they had the end in mind when they started it, then Kendall probably ends up on top.

Speaker A: I feel like the failure of the Gojo stocks to react to the news of the fake Indian accounts has basically made it impossible for Kendall to do his reverse Viking.

Speaker C: Do we know that?

Speaker A: Yeah, because that’s when Madison phones up Shiv and it’s like, you’re what does he call it?

Speaker A: The Red Devil or something.

Speaker A: You absolutely right.

Speaker A: It turns out that this was the best time to bury bad news, and no one seems to care.

Speaker C: Oh, my God.

Speaker C: Well, nobody’s talking about how actually with everybody setting things on fire up and down the streets across the country, I don’t think the share prices of anything are doing very well.


Speaker A: It’s a little bit Tianan and mini out there.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, my God, what’s going to happen?

Speaker C: We know from these last few years you can’t put that genie back in the bottle really easily.

Speaker C: What the question is, where are we headed?

Speaker C: We’re in an imaginary place now.

Speaker C: That could be the kind of civil war out there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker A: I do think in this world that if Menken becomes president after all those votes that were almost certainly cast against him went up in flames, you can just imagine how out of control that protests would be.

Speaker A: Not just in New York.

Speaker A: Everywhere.

Speaker C: Yeah, protests and counter protests.

Speaker C: Inevitably that would come to blows.

Speaker C: I mean, which is sort of how I feel about what’s happening here now.

Speaker A: But what do you think, Abby, about the ending of this episode with Roman fighting all of the protesters, and when one of them tries to help him, he’s like, f*** you.

Speaker A: Don’t touch me.

Speaker C: Yeah, that was just heartbreaking, really.

Speaker C: It was so not in the sort of pathos, but beethos kind of way.

Speaker C: I mean, he was just taking as a masochist that he is, just taking the beating that he knows in his heart he deserves.

Speaker C: I mean, it’s just that was just heartbreaking.

Speaker C: That was like him listening to his father’s words over and over again at the end of another episode where he’s just listening to you have a small d***, or whatever it was he said at that end of that episode.


Speaker C: It was just him flagellating himself was a little heartbreaking.

Speaker A: In terms of favorite lines, I’m going to say that apropos the f***** up politics of America and of this show.

Speaker A: I think my favorite line of this show is probably when Lucas says, I’m just saying you are nearly as mature a democracy as Botswana.

Speaker B: Yeah, just saying.

Speaker C: Oh, yes.

Speaker A: And he’s not wrong.

Speaker D: No, you’ve been democracy for, like, 50 years.

Speaker C: Yeah, she didn’t like him saying that.

Speaker C: It’s like no, wait.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: Black people.

Speaker D: Not if you don’t count the black people, which is a bad habit you have.

Speaker C: I liked Shiv saying, I thought I heard Dalmatians howling when her mother yes, she’s so great.

Speaker C: She also says to her mother, by the way, she says, don’t they grow up emotionally stunted that way?

Speaker C: When she talks about just handing her.

Speaker A: Baby off to somebody kind of not?

Speaker B: You would never have dared not to come to his funeral when he was alive.

Speaker C: But then Tom responds with, like, well, he’s lost a significant amount of his influence.

Speaker B: Also true.

Speaker C: Probably the most true line in the whole show.

Speaker C: That’s the whole point.

Speaker B: And that’s the problem.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Mine was when Minkin is asking Matson what his politics are, and he says, Privacy, p**** pasta, and then just well.

Speaker C: He says, a narco capitalist parmesan.

Speaker A: It’s true.

Speaker A: That’s definitely the elon part of Matson right there.


Speaker A: We just had this past week, we had a completely insane elon interview on CNBC where he was just basically saying he was so into this concept of being able to go out and say racist things on the Internet that he will happily blow up an entire company at $44 billion to do it.

Speaker A: And he quoted The Princess Bride.

Speaker A: He quoted inigo Montoya in The Princess Bride saying, offer me money, offer me power.

Speaker A: I don’t care.

Speaker A: And then, bless him, we love him more than words can say.

Speaker A: Mandy Petinkin came out on Twitter and said, I do not think the word means what you think.

Speaker A: Okay, so what’s coming up?

Speaker A: Do we have a clue?

Speaker A: Has this episode really helped us narrow the potential space of possible outcomes here?

Speaker B: Maybe.

Speaker B: I mean, Roman seems not to be emerging victorious in the next yeah, Roman.

Speaker A: Is going to be very brief in the next episode.

Speaker A: At the very least.

Speaker A: He’s going to have a black eye.

Speaker C: I think he fussed it, as they say.

Speaker D: This is the way Kendall characterizes it.

Speaker D: He says you thought you were dad.

Speaker D: You tried to dad it.

Speaker D: You failed.

Speaker B: You tried to dad it.

Speaker C: Yeah, that was another piece of evidence for me that he was taking on the killer persona.

Speaker C: And that’s another reason why I thought, oh, okay, maybe he’s stepping into it now, but who knows?

Speaker C: It’s a great cliffhanger, right?

Speaker C: Because you now have the two viable possible CEOs after all of this, jockeying for position and this willingness to just crush each other and still get into the limo together and chat on your way.


Speaker C: Chat’s funeral.

Speaker A: The one thing this episode did do was to cut off the thing that was the big possibility at the end of last season, which is that Matson just takes over, and the kids, they get cashed out and they become free floating rich kids putting together the hundred or whatever.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker A: That is now not a possibility.

Speaker A: If Matson takes over, then he comes with Shiv attached, and Shiv has this amazing she’s playing it both ways, right?

Speaker A: She’s like, on the one hand, I get to be the CEO of the combined company and run everything, but on the other hand, she’s telling Matson like, you’re the chairman.

Speaker A: Whatever.

Speaker A: I’ll be your puppet.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: But that felt very like a cagey way of promising something that’s easily broken.

Speaker A: Kendall and Roman promised to be the puppet of the board and just, like, make the deal go through.

Speaker A: And they broke that promise after about 25 seconds.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And Manken is supposed to be Roman’s puppet.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker B: Incorrect.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker A: Mankin is definitely not.

Speaker C: Did you notice that?

Speaker C: Was it Frank?

Speaker C: No, it was Carl, who says to Kendall a couple of episodes ago, I got your d*** in my hand.

Speaker C: You got my d***.

Speaker C: And then Kendall says, he’s got our d*** in his hand, we need his in ours.

Speaker C: He’s learning, man.

Speaker C: He’s learning.

Speaker A: There’s a lot of people wanting a lot of other people’s dicks in there.


Speaker A: Meanwhile, Roman just wants to have sex with Marcia on his dad’s coffin.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: Roman.

Speaker C: Oh, my God.

Speaker B: With the mother.

Speaker B: Figures.

Speaker C: Oh, God.

Speaker B: I don’t know, man.

Speaker B: I mean, I guess I sort of see Abby’s angle that Kendall emerges here as, like, the rightful successor to his dad.

Speaker B: But on the other hand, this is succession.

Speaker B: No one ever wins anything, especially Kendall.

Speaker B: He’s always about to win, and then he f**** it every time, every season.

Speaker C: It’s patriarchy, though.

Speaker B: Like who’s going to win?

Speaker C: Who’s going to win?

Speaker C: And if this is in any way going to be a satire of the way it works, then the only way it can possibly work is for the oldest male child to step into that quasi panhapsburgian line of succession and take over.

Speaker C: I always said it’s very Henry the Fourth, because Henry the Fourth is all about Henry the Fifth running around and messing things up and doing stupid things.

Speaker C: His friend Fall staff and all of that.

Speaker C: But it’s all about how he shuts all that stuff and becomes the king.

Speaker C: And that’s where I think the Shakespeare comes into it.

Speaker B: Or everyone could die.

Speaker B: And then fortn Bras.

Speaker B: This is a serious and then Fortnbras who’s, like, from Norway or something?

Speaker C: I think so.

Speaker B: One of those northerner yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: Maybe I didn’t even think of that.

Speaker C: Of course, I love the way they are always showing off their expensive education.


Speaker C: They like to throw that out there with the Ozzy mandius quotes and so forth.

Speaker C: Or all these money changers in the temple.

Speaker C: That’s what Kendall says when he walks into that.

Speaker B: I didn’t know how to funeral.

Speaker C: What a remarkable thing for him to say, of all people.

Speaker B: Oh, I wanted to note that Kendall, I don’t think anyone ever gets a real laugh on the show, but he actually got a laugh in his eulogy and I was impressed by that.

Speaker B: When he said the thing about money and people laughed, that never happened.

Speaker A: And he got applause, right?

Speaker A: That was the thing.

Speaker A: Shiv and ewan.

Speaker A: And certainly Roman didn’t get applause.

Speaker A: Kendall got applause, which is not something you normally I can’t remember people clapping a eulogy.

Speaker D: I think it goes back to what Abby was saying.

Speaker D: He gives this rousing speech that’s pro capitalism, pro money.

Speaker D: And so whenever he says, and the money he made and people kind of laugh, it’s definitely like an uncomfortable, knowing insider.

Speaker D: He laugh where everybody in the room is like, yeah, we do care about money inside.

Speaker B: That’s the reason we’re here, is the.

Speaker A: Time where you can say the quiet part out loud.

Speaker C: What did he call money?

Speaker C: It was something about the Corpuscules of.

Speaker B: The blood of very gooey, that speech.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, it was really scary.

Speaker C: Yikes.

Speaker C: I was going to say, I also like that Menken calls Roman the grim.

Speaker C: Weeper tiny tears.

Speaker B: Tiny tears.

Speaker C: That’s when you know it’s really over for Roman.

Speaker A: You can’t come back from the grim.

Speaker A: You really can’t.

Speaker A: Okay, so that’s the grand finale.

Speaker A: We set it all up.

Speaker A: It’s happening next week.

Speaker A: We will be back a little bit later than normal on Monday afterwards, to recap everything, we have a regular Slate Money show on Saturday.

Speaker A: And then Monday afternoon, if all goes according to plan, we will be here on Slate Money succession with David Fulconflick for the grand finale of late money succession and of succession.

Speaker A: Wow, it’s been a riot.

Speaker C: People going to be sad and happy all at once.

Speaker A: Emily shedding tiny gears.