The Naughty Bob Ross

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S1: Hi, Ben. Hi, Nicole, how are you? I’m good, how are you?

S2: I am delighted and listeners may note that the background is a little bit different in this part of my delight, because I’m not in a tiny closet.

S3: Yes, it’s wonderful. We’re in a very bright, spacious place today for a very special reason.

S2: Yes, I’m actually quite excited. I know my voice doesn’t always register that because it’s droll and British, but I mean, thank you so much. But I am wildly excited. Um, before we get to the reason why we’re so excited. Nicole, what’s up with you?


S4: Oh, my God.

S1: Oh, come on now. No, nothing, nothing at all, nothing. Okay. I mean, that’s quarantine for you. Yeah, I mean, you know, there are things happening, but, you know, I don’t talk about them until, you know, everybody has signed on the dotted line. I hear you. Yeah. Nothing in life. I like your shirt because, you know, I love Peach. I know.

S2: That’s why I wore it for you. I thought, Nicole, listen, as my shirt says, peachy keen. And that’s how I feel with Nicole A.. Because she loves a peach.

S1: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, I guess I could say I got my hair and nails done for the first time since. February, March. Look at that. Congratulations. It really affected me like I did not think that I was that vain, but it’s it’s not vanity.


S2: It’s replenishing the human spirit. Yeah. It’s nice to beautify yourself, so I feel really good. Good. I haven’t had my hair done. And you can also tell that I look rough as a virgin. It’s fine. It’s OK. I’ve you know, I’ve come to terms with it. You don’t have to reassure me. Like, I looked in the mirror this morning and I was like, it is what it is now. And then I put on some lip gloss and I was like, let’s get out of the house, go out there and be somebody. And that’s what I’m doing today. Anyway, back to the exciting reason. Yes. So we out of the house and we feel like human beings again. Nicole, we have a very special guest on today’s show.


S1: Yes. Someone that I have been trying to interview since February, maybe March. It’s as old as the lockdown. Yeah. And, you know, and I was pitching their profile and then coronaviruses happened. The pandemic happened and everybody was just like, we just want coronavirus shit. And I’m like, OK, well, he’s doing this thing that’s related to the pandemic, you know, he’s putting out aren’t because he has to. And this is like the way that we’re accessing it. And then the people will be like, oh, we already have that angle. So like, OK, we’ll go show myself. So I am going to get him on the show. Exactly. So we have Mark Leupp, Daddy Rabieh, they call them share. What an absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you for letting us into your home. Yes, pleasure. It’s a nice it’s a lovely home.


S2: I feel like I’m in an episode of Fifty Three Questions with a seventy day question and open up the door.

S3: Hi Mark.

S2: Yeah, the faceless interrogator.

S4: But this time it’s me and Unicol see the weird one with Kim and Kanye where they were like, you know just in there like modest stari of a home. No, just this giant empty white cavernous spaces. I mean very odd place to live. I don’t know if I would want to live there.

S5: No one. I saw pictures and like a video of their bathroom sink that looks like just a cement slash.

S4: Yeah, it’s just a yeah. And it’s where the water goes.


S1: Where does the toothpaste, you know, land, you know, it’s not very child friendly.

S3: It’s not even adult friendly, super stylized and useless. Yes, exactly. What for. It’s a gallery. It’s a gallery. You go up anyway, but what a Segway is.

S5: Mark is an improvisational musician who uses his Leupp machine keyboard, whatever is around him to make music. Sometimes he has people call in when he’s when he does live streams on YouTube, Twitter, and people will talk to him for a little bit, give him a topic, and then he makes a song from the topics that people give. That’s right. Yeah. And ah, from the conversations. So I found that fascinating. And some of the stuff that went viral was a lot of, you know, some sexy stuff.


S1: Yes. Just the way and I started watching women in particular the responses women were having to you and I was like, oh this is this is supreme first contact. And we, we need to I need to talk to him. Yeah. So that is why we are here in your kitchen.


S4: It was not designed to be first contest, but if it’s turned into thirst, Konta, many things are not designed to be perfect.

S3: Yes, you’re right. And thirst finds a way.

S6: There’s so much like life. Thirst somehow finds a way. It’s the Jurassic Park. Part of it just finds a way.

S5: So let’s get started talking about how we got to this point, because I see a lot of times people in interviews with you, they say that you are classically trained. What exactly does classically trained mean and how did you get from Dallas to New York?


S4: Well, it means it’s just means that my parents put me in, like, classical piano lessons when I was a kid, you know? And so I guess since I was like, I think four or five, I was doing classical piano lessons. I didn’t want to do them. I hated doing them. But, you know, I guess if there are any parents out there, force your children to do that, you know, because even throughout the years that I really didn’t want to do it, it just was always a part of my life because my parents forced me to. And I think, like the end result of taking piano lessons was being able to play. Songs I really enjoyed the end result that I hated and really still hate the rehearsal process, practicing working on something until it’s just right. I’ve I’ve never really I’ve never fallen in love with that process the way that I can only assume other people do classical musicians, et cetera. But yeah. So anyway, just listen, since I was a kid for a decade plus and then I quit that and sort of taught myself improvisational blues, jazz a little bit. And then over the years, I guess from like 15 to 20 something, I took a series of private lessons on my own dime about, you know, just having to do with jazz theory and mixing and mastering and, you know, just sort of like the engineering process as I was trying to learn how to make music as well. So I was a little bit of that. And yeah, I spent most of my childhood in Dallas and moved to New York. I mean, I have like a back and forth relationship with New York because I was born in Dallas. And then I when I was about four or five, we moved to Inglewood, New Jersey, Bergen County, which is just across the George Washington Bridge. And so I would be in the city a lot as a kid until I was about 12. When we moved back to Dallas, I spent like the rest of my childhood there. And then, yeah, I moved back here after I lived in Paris for a year. So I might have been I guess I was like twenty three or twenty four, moved here for a couple of years, worked a jobs, still try to do music that my dad got sick. I moved back to Dallas for a number of years and once that time was was up, I moved back to New York, already having established a small audience in Dallas, but sort of basically trying to start from scratch. And in New York, again, doing the music thing. So that’s how I ended up back here. I can’t seem to get away. I mean, it’s a trap. It is a beautiful trap. It’s just a beautiful trap.


S3: I wanted to ask, are your parents particularly musical like their insistence on you learning this? Was this something that they were particularly interested in?

S4: No, neither of them are musical. I mean, they they did listen to music. They listen my dad listen to classical opera, Arabic music. My mom listen to a lot of Motown, a lot of four tops, Smokey Robinson, Ray Charles, James Brown, Temptations, you know, all that stuff. And that’s really what got its hooks in me, I think, early.

S5: OK, so we can tell that you are very heavily influenced by funk and soul in your music and even in, like, the aggressive faces that you make sometimes when you’re singing and like it gets the right to the line of maybe parody.


S1: And so then it’s kind of like, I don’t know if I like this white boy making fun of this kind of music.

S5: And then you kind of like take a step back and then you’re like, no, this is actually an appreciation of it. So I wonder, though, how did you get to that point where you realize, let me be careful in how I, you know, translate the way the music feels for me in my own performances?

S4: Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, there’s no doubt I’m influenced almost exclusively by black music. You know, it’s like and I don’t know if there’s a musician working today that’s not. But I am very heavily influenced by that. And obviously it shows up in every aspect of all of my songs. It’s all like hip hop, funk, disco, soul, blues based shit. And I you know, I don’t know. It’s it’s it’s interesting to think about this because. I don’t know if I ever it was ever like a conscious. Thing for me, thinking about how do I, like, be careful with this or do it service without, you know, just like appropriating for laughs or some other thing, like, you know, there’s lots of ways in which you can fuck that up and be extremely insensitive and like but I never thought I’ve never still really have never thought about it analytically. In terms of how I’m executing it, I think about it afterwards, I’ve thought about it in just in concept, sort of like what it is I do and and, you know, where my influences are and how I how I use them in my in my music. But when I’m doing it, I’m really not there’s really not much thought. I am just trying to do something dope that like I’m just trying to sing something that I think sounds good to me and and deliver that in like an honest way. Even if I’m saying stupid shit about butts and pussies and shit, you know, like even if I’m doing that, it’s like that won’t work. If the music if there is not some foundation and like the music is is hopefully pretty good, you know, like that has to be a there needs to be that layer there in order for the humor to work. And so the music I’m always approaching very seriously. And then I hope that that gives me credence and license to do with words kind of what I want. But like the music, I’m just. Yeah, I mean, I’m just trying to, like, make something that I genuinely feel. And that’s about as far as I go. I mean, I hope it hasn’t ventured into the realms of like insensitivity or anything like that. But I’m really just trying to honestly just make some. Dope, shit, honestly, that’s just that’s all musically what I’m trying to do.


S5: So, yeah, I mean, there’s so much on social media where we have people who go viral who become these Internet sensations because they are mocking other people’s cultures or, you know, something along those lines and that, you know, with men who they put on wigs and their whole thing is, you know, making fun of women. Are they do you have digital blackface where you have a lot of people who are then lip synching black women on Tic-Tac and things like that? And, you know, that’s how they end up sparking a lot of that idea, because I’m just starting to venture into ticktock.

S4: It’s like my smallest platform, but I’m trying to stay relevant with the children. And but, man, there is a lot of that. There’s a lot of white people like lip synching black audio. Oh, yeah.

S3: But they’re just so it’s a it’s an extension of what is already done, unlike Twitter and YouTube and whatever. I think each new platform just kind of adapts but to the same old thing. So, you know, if it’s not full on blackface, it’s a version of it’s kind of like and part of the problem, I think also is that so much of black culture is unfairly mocked as American culture. And so removing the specificity means always it’s a game for anyone. And it’s kind of like, no, it’s not that thing of, well, you can’t say you own it. And it’s like actually some people do own. Yes. And it’s a very weird thing of just like having this flattened into sort of it’s entertainment and it’s like it’s culture. It’s people’s culture. Yeah. And that’s like a constant thing that I think people are pushing back against and trying to kind of be fair, but also kind of demand a sort of, you know, humility of people who are not born of the culture, who then kind of jump on in and join in. And I definitely have encountered a lot with so many of my favorite white artists where it’s kind of like, uh, how do I feel about this? And like, you know, and it’s a difficult line to to cross because you appreciate you can see how much craft goes into something. Yeah. But at the end of the day, it’s also kind of like who’s getting rewarded for this? And that’s like a constant question. Mm hmm. That’s very interesting.


S4: Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, I feel like. I don’t know. Yeah, there’s like mockery and then there’s even yeah, it’s obviously I don’t know, it’s hard for me to say because I’m not I’m not I’m not on the side that owns it. I’m using it, but I’m using it entirely. Out of a deep, deep love for it, like a primal, deep love for it, I hope I’m not fucking it up. That’s all I can say, you know? I hope not. Well, I mean, do you have friends who can check you just in case like I do? Yeah, I haven’t yet been checked. OK, that’s good. I feel like I’ve probably been checked once or twice on Twitter, but it’s Twitter. You know, it’s hard to know who is doing that. Checking how much of a troll they are. It’s just hard to know. But I have not been checked by my friends yet, which I guess is a good thing. I don’t know. I don’t know.

S7: Look at the scene to see, but when you are selling out these shows and when you are doing your driving tours during a pandemic, you are in your underwear and or in a robe.

S1: Both. Yes, absolutely. Why?

S6: How explain yourself. What is this? What is this?

S4: It did not start out that way. It did. Definitely did not start out that way. I played clothed probably in something like this for probably about a year for the listeners at home.

S3: Monkeys wearing a t shirt and trousers right now.

S4: That’s what you. Yes. Like some gray khakis and. Yes, some sort of gray shit. Yeah, they guessable. Well, that’s the official term. Some gray some gray shit. White t shirt. Yeah. Yeah. So it was like, you know, because when I first started playing in front of people, I was playing in Dallas at bars and restaurants for the better part of a year. And when I was playing those shows, I was just clothed. It was just I didn’t think much of it was tried to wear nice outfits. Sometimes I wear like a suit, you know, something. But then when I started touring, I moved here. Then my video started getting shared way more than they used to, then got booking requests and then I started booking tours. And so when I started. Like moving around and staying at hotels, hotels would have robes sometimes, and at some point there I just like it was like, well, I. I should probably just wear this robot stage and be funny, you know, sort of like the boxer thing, you know, you’re wearing a big ceremonial robe on stage and it’s that is funny. This the funny thought. And so I did that. And then sort of in conjunction with that, I had also filmed like a few videos in my apartment in one of the two robes I had maybe I only had one, but there were a couple of those that have become quite popular. And so there’s this connection started happening between the videos and robes being on stage in a robe. And then as I kept playing on stage in robes, I started realizing, like, wow, this is kind of like a sexual thing. It’s like a like a burlesque sort of thing where, you know, midway through the show I can start to tease and that. So then it was just like it just was totally organic from that point. It was like people like, take it all.


S6: Let me see your audition. So it was like, you know, and I love that shit. I apologize for that. I didn’t mean to yell. I’m just sorry about that. It’s OK. Thank you. I think it’s perfectly fine. Yeah.

S4: I mean, it was just it’s like became absurd and I embrace that, I suppose. And so now every show, it’s just sort of like that. I don’t know if it will stay that way. I certainly would like it to evolve. I probably have a different outfit at some point. But right now the robe thing is I mean, it’s a really comfortable way to play. I can really comfy, you know, you should do a line of robes. I have heard that. And I really want to do this. I’m working on like a like a collection, you know, like a loop daddy collection of like luxurious stuff like that. So we’ll say, I like robes at panties, but they need to be they need to be nice.

S6: We appreciate your commitment to quality. It’s also got to be a high thread count, high thread count. The Egyptian cotton have nothing less. You have to have Facebook. There’s going to be a fire. You got to go with Rihanna and have like she had a lot.

S5: She have lingerie, savage binti lingerie. And so you could do loop daddy savage Fenty.

S4: I don’t know, dude, that’s a great idea. The collaboration of. Yeah, that’s a great. Yeah. Let’s get let’s get me to any sort of level where Rihanna would have the slightest clue who I am and then maybe we could consider we’ll make the introductions.


S6: Yeah. OK, great.

S1: OK, so you’re at these shows and people are yelling at you to take it off and they’re throwing their bras on stage at you and you are putting the brakes on. Yeah. But then also sometimes at the end of your show you come out to the stage and then there is a picture floating around where you are standing at the edge of the stage and you just kind of like, hey, you know, I’m here and someone has their hand on your dick. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

S4: Are you comfortable with that? Yeah, I’m comfortable with it. Yeah, I’m comfortable with it. That’s a solid answer instantly. Yes, I’m very comfortable. I’m comfortable with it. It’s happened to multiple shows. Oh yeah. It’s just it’s fine. It’s the show is it’s a hyper sexual show. It’s meant to turn you on and make you laugh and make you feel good. That’s the whole vibe of the show. That’s usually the way I feel when I’m on stage so people get excited. There was like a show in Tampa where I often bring people up on stage all like, you know, people will come up at the very end. I’ll bring, like, a lot of people up on stage. But normally during the show, a few people will come up if they feel like it. If they get my attention and they look interesting, you’re they’re saying something interesting, I’ll bring them up. And this one woman in Tampa had she was right in the front row with like a jar of peanut butter. She’s desperately trying to get my attention. And she came up on stage and, like, put peanut butter on my chest and lifted off my nipple. And then later on that same day, I’m telling you, Tampa is the craziest fucking place. He lives up to Florida. Whole Prosek’s one of my favorite places to play on the planet. This 70 something year old mother was there with her son also in the front row. She’s handicapped, she’s in a wheelchair. And she beckoned me over and is sucking peanut butter off of it. There’s a 75 year old woman is sucking peanut butter off of my fingers, like sucking.


S8: And what are you doing?

S4: You heard me know it was insane, but that’s how that’s like the energy in the room. And it’s two degrees of that. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Did you have hand sanitizer close by? Well, it was a really, you know you know, you got to think before we were obsessed with, like, sanitizer. So it was like not a big deal.

S6: You your trousers and kept. I keep going. Keep going. The world was so different back then. It really was six months ago. Oh, God. It’s so sad.

S9: David. So for ages.

S3: So I got to know of you via Nicole, who was kind of like, please watch this, which is my favorite kind of text to get.

S2: Please watch. Yeah, no contact, no nothing. And I was like, who the fuck is this guy like to get away? But also everyone like secondary comment after that initial question is kind of like, oh, it does kind of slap though. How do you feel about being like the person is kind of like what, huh?

S3: What is that feeling?

S4: So that’s a great I mean, it is a feeling. I mean, it’s the response I’ve gotten since the moment I got on stage. Right. So it’s not I’ve been contending with that for years now. OK, good. And and yeah, it’s I’m doing it to myself. And also I kind of it gives me something to win you over, you know, gives me a reason to win you over in a way is like the first shows I played. I mean the first hundred and fifty shows I played were at bars and restaurants where people were just trying to eat lunch or have a cocktail. They’d have no fucking clue who I am or why I’m there. And all of the sudden they’re hearing a song about like Tostitos and fucking your ass hole and all this shit. And they’re like, they’re good. It’s just like, what the fuck is? But it was this weird thing. It’s happened ever since the beginning because and I think putting like, by the way, huge thanks to correspond Danny Bayless and Sam Wynn and Jeff Fryman, who are the first four people to hire me and subjected me to their customers paying customers at restaurants, whether it was at noon, the brunch crowd, or like a ten to 1:00 a.m. slot at like late dinner. Just an insane thing that they did for me. Like, let me get up there, really do exactly what the fuck I wanted to do in front of their customers. And so a lot of them left, actually, I wouldn’t say a lot, but there were a few that in my time doing that walked out. But mostly, by and large, the response was exactly what you’re saying. The first thing is and you could get you got to see it in real time. What the fuck is this? Oh, and then by yes. So and it’s just sort of like grew from there. So I’m very accustomed to it.


S3: It’s definitely not only online, it’s the healthy way to be because I literally I think Nicole sent a minute later I was like, yeah, who is this guy? Yeah. And then like, oh shit. Like, I’m Dumphy.

S6: Thanks, Nicole. Sorry, that makes me very happy. That’s nice. I know.

S4: And, you know, I also know that that’s not always everyone’s reaction. I mean, everyone’s reactions. What the fuck is this? This sucks. Then they turn it off and that’s fine. I would rather not make something that appeals to everybody. I think that’s boring. Boring to make that kind of stuff.

S5: Yeah. OK, so you sometimes have people call in and you have conversations with them and they give you topics. And for a while it it was clear that people were just like, can you talk more? Can you do a song about acetates athanasiadis activities? And you kind of kind of went off on people a little bit. You were like, yeah, give me something else. Is there something that you will not do a song about? Like if someone came and, you know, gave you a topic, is there something you like? No. What’s wrong with you and what’s off limits?

S4: I think off limits is not quite what you would think off limits is boring shit is like not some outrageous request because I’ve done all sorts of requests like that. I’ve done requests about murder, about drowning, about, you know, relationships and every permutation about fucking and eating pussy and all this shit that like there is really not many topics about Trump, you know, but he I generally, if it’s like heavily political and it’s not something that I feel really passionate about. I guess like recently on the drive and tour, I did a number of like BLM songs and also some fucked up shit because I just feel I feel very strongly about those things. So it’s easy for me to access like a song, but. Stuff that’s more like pointedly political, that’s more it’s just not really my wheelhouse, it’s not stuff that I look at or read about a ton. So I don’t find a lot of inspiration there. But mostly what I won’t do is like if you’re just giving me some bullshit, that’s not like that’s one of the reasons I’ve been taking calls on stream for a long time as well. And recently in those streams, these quarantine streams where I was just talking to people that were like giving me nothing, nothing. There was one due to the phone and I was starting to lose it because the caller before had given me some bullshit. I wasn’t able to make a good song with it. And so I was like really needing a caller to give me something real, some energy, a vibe, something give me something. It gets on the phone is like, hey, it’s just making me get it out of them. What do you do? What do you wear? Not much. We can work like what he was like. All right, I got something for you. I’ve got something for you that’s really going to inspire you. I was like, all right, man, lay it on me. He’s like, well, I went on this trip one time and he goes on for fucking. Like a full minute, but just like, yeah, I went from like I did like three states and we started in Seattle and we went over to San Francisco and then we went down the state of California, just like I’m sitting there. I can’t. I just can not. And I hung up on the dude. It was the first time I ever hung up on a caller I hung up on. I was like two. It just can’t do that. I think part of it was also that I was in a really like I needed something. And so I was feeling I was in a sort of a creative rut and there was like 10000 people tuned in. And I’m just like, dude, I am losing it right now. And this dude is talking about some fucking road that this bland description of this trip that is know nothing interesting about it is just describing what he did. So it’s stuff like that. It’s stuff that gives me, as you can see, just I need you to give me some meat. I need you to give me bring me something emotional, whatever that is, if it’s sexual, if it’s personal, if it has nothing to do with any of that. But if it’s just how you feel, I need that because that’s what that’s what a song is. It’s like it’s the distillation of an emotion into, you know, a musical direction, more emotion. So I need that. I can probably do a song about being bored. Hmm. I do that. Yeah, I’ve done that before.


S3: Okay, well, if the spirit takes you if you want to perhaps do a song about first at some point in your future. Oh yes.

S6: That’s this used to have just a random just I mean plucked out of the air. First question mark.

S3: But I do want to get into this idea of humor and that. So we’ve had a comedian on the show by the name of Wyatt Cenac who. Oh yeah. We love very much. Yeah. So what we ended up talking a little bit about the the type of humor and like desire and how people kind of the many people, they go hand in hand even when they can’t necessarily articulate it. But, you know, that whole cliche thing of what are you looking for, somebody with a sense of humor, but it’s very real. How do you go about you know, you’ve mentioned stuff that is funny to you and the music that absolutely has to be from this place of, like, real feeling? Yeah. How do you marry the two things together in the music that you perform? Mhm. Because I can tell you the result is a good amount of first.

S6: Yeah. A lot of people. Yes. My plans are coming to fruition.

S4: It’s all working out as I had intended. So yeah. No I mean like I wish there was more of like a thoughtful process behind that. But I think what it has to do with is mostly it’s like my sensibilities, you know, my dad was very French, extremely French.

S3: It’s a great photo of him without even knowing. I was like, oh, that’s a French dude. Oh, God, yes.

S4: It’s French is the guts thickest acts like a cartoonishly thick accent. Are you fluent in French? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Dual citizenship. So if should ever gets fucked up here, I can just he’s out here two weeks or something like this.


S6: I think he’s gonna be like my last public appearance was on Thursday and you never know that. But yeah.

S4: So he always was a big flirt, was a big I mean utterly devoted to my mother. But the French nature in him was that of just a big player, you know, and he sort of acted that way. And and it was extremely charming, extremely endearing. He did it in this way. That was. It just incredibly charming, you couldn’t help but be charmed by him, even though he sometimes would like push you in uncomfortable directions, but it was done in this way that was really just masterful. It was just who he was. You know, it’s just a sort of. A very loving, funny, big energy that happened to wear sexuality out his sleeve. It was a big part of his identity and I, I can only imagine that I inherited that a lot of many of those traits just by nature of being his son and being around him for so long. And and then so it sort of has become this thing where I think you really hit on something super real, which is this connective tissue between humor and horniness. And there is there just is an intangible connection there. It exists. It’s in our neurotransmitters. We’re turned on by humor. For some reason, if someone makes you laugh, they’re there are many times where that turns into a physical attraction. It’s alchemical. It’s weird the way that that works, but it is that way. It’s part of our part of many of our DNA or that just the way that we respond sexually to things. I think I’m speaking for myself, but I mean, I’m also speaking for many people for whom I know that to be the case and. So I guess I just landed in this lucky place where what I just where my instincts are taking me on stage is to try and be absurd, try and be ridiculous, you know, try and make sure that everything on stage has this air of absurdity. But it’s couched in this real horniness and and also just a desire to to to try and make some like, you know, some groovy shit, some some stuff that has a groove, that has a pocket that you can sort of bounce to. And then and so when I guess all of those things get put together, it’s like it turns into this very sexually charged show. And I think the humor feeds that. Well, I didn’t know that until I got, you know, and that didn’t really happen in the beginning. It sort of took a while to for that to become a part of the show in the way that it is now. But it felt natural. It’s still very much feels natural to have it be a part of the show. And yeah, that’s sexy, it’s just fun, you know, sexy.


S1: I think part of it is when we see someone who is completely abandoning himself to the music, to the spirit of the crowd and just kind of letting go, that’s very attractive because it’s like, oh, if he can let go of, you know, society’s rules about how he’s supposed to be on stage or whatever, you know, it’s just kind of like, oh, what’s he going to do?

S8: And, you know, so that comes like that. It is. Oh, my God.

S1: So that comes, you know, to the audience, I think. And so that’s part of it. Because what I love I mean, I love watching you and your performances, but I really love watching the reactions because people are like, oh, my God, why do I like this?

S6: Why is he turning me on? You know what? I’m not that bad looking. It’s like, why the fuck do I like this? There’s so much of that. It’s like I have no idea why I like this bullshit. It’s like, oh, want to something. I don’t know.

S1: But yeah, I know the reactions are really so you know, like does it bother you that people like you should not be attractive. But I am attracted to him.

S4: I mean we’re arriving at the same destination.

S8: It’s like what a healthy way of looking at it.

S6: You’re on the train. Said you’re out. That’s right. You don’t go however you got there. That’s entirely up to you baring their fat soul.

S10: Hey, I want to get it my mouth. I want to get it here by myself.

S1: On your. I want to talk about this picture that I saw, um, I’m trying to be professional. Oh, I have no idea what this is going to be. This was I think you did a TV, a throwback Thursday picture. Uh, no glasses, long hair, Mark circa 2013.


S2: Oh, Nicole, please describe the photo for our listeners.

S1: OK, so in this photo, Mark is in a pair of tidy whities. Klemzig for everyth it’s very on brand even today. Yeah. Even though he’s got a cigarette on the corner of his mouth, just dangling a glass of wine or port maybe. OK, and he’s in his other hand, he’s got a phone and it looks like maybe he might be taking a dick pic. That’s right.

S5: If if he wasn’t in the tidy whities and he have on and a shirt like a Rat Pack kind of shirt, that is, uh, what is this, vertically striped and like mustard brown, gray, whatever. And it’s open.

S1: So we see what I like to call a strong bird chest, and he’s got long hair, no glasses, and he’s looking to the side eyebrows a little, you know, a little arched, very groomed you. I mean, obviously, Mark, you look like you should be in the video for Fiona Apple’s criminal, right?

S6: Well, that is a best compliment I’ve ever heard. Incredible.

S1: So tell us about this, uh, picture, how and why it’s actually super specific.

S4: This is a picture that a friend of mine took of me who was a photographer who still is works in digital media, but she’s still a photographer. And she was shooting photos for a vice article about dick pics. OK, and so she. Yes. And so she shot a bunch of dudes in various dick pics taking positions. Right. Right.

S6: And we were like, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are many there’s only a couple of good ones, though, right? Well, pinyon, I mean, I don’t know about that, but I think they’re like two that men do say that are that they share.


S1: And that’s disappointing sometimes.

S4: Oh shit. It’s like what’s what are the two? Because I think I, I think my approach is good.

S8: OK, I don’t want to life, but I think I’ve nailed it.

S1: The one is just like I’m in the bathroom in my dirty socks. And here’s here’s the angle.

S4: Yes. OK, the top down at the top. What is that shit. I don’t know. Please tell your brother to stop doing it. What is this? This anatomy class? It’s just a dick. Where’s the context? Where’s the velvet background? Where’s the where’s the where’s where’s the thoughts? The consideration for who you’re sending this to. Yeah. Why is just a dick you want to see just a dick.

S1: No. And especially not your dirty socks because I always like, you know, in awe. And then there’s the other one when there’s like, oh, here’s a coke can next to my dick, you know, but here’s my bag.

S4: I have never and will never send a dick pic like that. That’s some bullshit.

S6: And I thank you. I promise I will never be a guarantee.

S4: Do I mean, that picture is a decent representation of the kind of artfulness I try to bring to my dick pics. We need context. We need you down to up. This is the angle. Your body, your face, your dick. Everything is in, everything is represented. You get context, you get to see you’re not just looking at a penis most disgusting fucking, but you’re looking at the whole thing. And so that’s that’s the approach I like to take.


S6: Wow. Thank you so much. In this conversation, it’s kind of like. Yeah, yeah.

S2: A little bit like what’s a Gaga song where you said Body Faith?

S4: Did you say that you should do a remix? But this is not the first time I’ve heard about these dick pics, about that style of dirtbag’s. It’s very disappointing. It’s like, dude, have you ever watched a movie? It just be cinematic about it? Yes. Captures something in a frame. It’s not that. It’s really not that.

S6: Yeah. Lighting shadows. Consider what you. I do. I mean, you know, everyone has a ring right now and a stand or something like that. Let’s do some some lamps, see what happens. Right.

S4: Single shadows. What’s up? Let’s go.

S1: OK, so I also consider you like a naughty Bob Ross, because you are you try to be very positive and just like, have a good day, go poop on it, you know, that kind of thing.

S6: I always try to put you all over poop all over the place.

S1: Why is positivity so important for you to incorporate positivity while acknowledging that the world is shit? Because some people are just like positive vibes only and it totally disregards life. So but you recognize that, you know, life has been fucked up for, you know, a minute. And but you also want people to be in the moment. Can you talk a bit about that and why it’s significant to you to do that for sure?

S4: Yeah, I have all I mean, my temperament, my, like, baseline foundational level as a person has always been very positive. I’m very lucky to have that as as as a trait just for my own sanity. I’ve been very lucky to just be a baseline, a very happy human being for the most part, you know, that gets tested as you grow older and shit happens to you and you lose people and all that. But but there is, to me, an inherent beauty. In the simple process of being alive and that beauty is comprised of the full spectrum of our existence, that beauty is the pain and the suffering and the joy and the love. All of this creates this extraordinary thing that we get to do for a very short amount of time, which is be alive here. And when that’s done, I don’t care what you believe, there’s no one actually knows what happens. So. We don’t know, so for all we know, it could be done, it could be done after this, so. We need to I feel so strongly that we really need to just concentrate and try and be cognizant of this beauty as often as we can, this like daily, just the fact that we are still breathing. Yes, shit is deeply fucked up, deeply. There’s a lot that needs to be done. There’s a lot that needs to change. There’s a lot that needs to disappear. There’s a lot of growing up we need to do. There is a whole host of things that need to happen, but. If you zoom way out and look at the world, the universe, at the cosmic level, at the at the light year level, at this thousands and hundreds of thousands of years level, we are nothing. This whole shit, this whole thing is nothing in comparison to the scale of this. I mean, all of our little problems are little bullshit, no fights. It’s fucking nothing. So you so. From the time we’re born to the time we die, if we can find some shred little moments of happiness where we feel good and where the people around us feel good, and where we’re treating those people around us with love and kindness and being generous to these people, then like that constitutes your life. And and then at the end of it, hopefully you can you can look at that and and feel good and feel happy and feel gratitude for having experienced those things and those feelings. That’s like my big life philosophy is like really finding a you know, and it is very hard to do sometimes. It’s like not a particularly easy thing to, like, get your mind to do a lot, but. You really have to try, you really, really have to try, because it’s like. The fuck else are you going to do, the fuck else are you going to do?


S6: I was going real spiritual and it’s like, well I like bring you back to Earth and go back to what you know.

S1: Oh, yeah. So I feel about it. Yeah.

S4: What do you guys think about that?

S3: Well, I think that’s actually a valid thing. I feel like every day there is much to fuck up your day and and correctly so. I think there’s a lot of injustice and a lot of imbalance. And it was incidental, like it was built that way and it was designed that way. And it’s perpetuated every day. And you do your fighting, you do your best to kind of redress the balance and then you just have to kind of be able to fall asleep. And sometimes it just kind of like but everything I’m just going to go to bed or I’m going to listen to some music or I’m going to do some reading or I’m going to do whatever. And and art in that way kind of fills the specific chasm between the world as it is and the way you would like it to be. And I think, you know, not to put too much pressure on the work that you do, but carving out time to find very specific pleasures like listening to or watching a set of yours is kind of like, you know, this is not right now part of the fight for balance, unlike justice. But it is giving me something of myself back. And I think that’s an important thing to kind of hold onto.

S4: Wow. That’s very powerful. Thank you. I try I have not I just have not thought about art in that way. What did you say? It’s the thing that bridges the way you want the world to be and the way that it is. Yeah, that’s fucking that’s some shit right there.


S6: Do you judge those lyrics on their merits? It’s really beautiful words in the back of my mind.

S5: So, Mark, where can we find you online?

S4: Oh, you can find me pretty much everywhere at Marco Rubio, just MRC r b i l l e t that’s Twitter. That’s Instagram. That’s YouTube. That’s Tic-Tac. That’s Facebook. That’s my website. Dotcom everywhere on anywhere. Mark Rabieh on Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal. Any damn place you get your music.

S3: Marco Rubio. That is the most superior CEO I have ever. It’s all one word. I’m everywhere. That’s it. You know what?

S4: You know what though? On Spotify, it’s it’s there’s a space that’s OK to do anyway.

S6: It’s fine. But yeah, it’s just my name everywhere.

S2: That’s it. Like, this has been an absolute pleasure.

S4: The pleasure has been my stop gap. Thank you all for coming with me. It was really nice.

S1: That’s great. I had a fun time. I had a chance to do it again sometime. Yeah. Yeah.

S11: First aid kit is a state production produced by Chauvin’s and us, me and Nicole Firkins, a music is by Tanya Morgan. You can follow the show on Twitter at First Aid Kit. And we’re on Tumblr at First Aid Kit podcast, Tumblr, dot com. If you like to listen and live tweet, there is a hashtag. It’s TICC Pod. That’s a pod. And you can join other Facebook. It’s every Thursday or any other time. If you prefer, you can write us an email and send us to a first aid kit at Slate dot com. If you want to use Arthurson military service, just send us a short and we make short no longer than a minute. Voice note via email to first aid kit at Slate dot com. You can find all of our episodes and links to listen at Slate dot com slash podcasts. And if you find yourself wishing you could get even more Thursday, get content every week. Well, now you can. All you have to do is become a slate plus member state plus a Slate membership program. Just thirty five dollars for the first year. You’ll get a little extra from this trip and all of those lectures, plus zero ads, visit dotcom, slash those eight plus to sign up, stay thirsty and responsible, wear a mask and do your best to make charged eye contact with your favorite Luke Daddy. Bah bah bah.


S3: Visit first aid plus to sign up, you know, that was good.

S8: I was hoping it was going to work.

S1: It’s OK. Just wait. Hold on.

S12: Oh, hello.

S13: Flight classlessness, a loony bin. How are you doing, Nicole?

S14: I currently have a heat rash. Oh, yeah, I know. I get them on my neck. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I’ve got mine in the crook of my elbow. Shut out the friction because I’ve been doing a lot of exercising because I didn’t know how to fire. Listen, I’m doing this precisely. You know, that, you know, when people say, oh, I only wear make up for myself. Yeah, I am exercising genuinely for myself because coming up the stairs to my apartment has become quite the trick. Mm hmm. And it’s stressing me and my home goes out how heavy my breathing is. I sound like a sort of terrible indecent phone caller. Every time I get to the top of my head, the top of my head, I was like, I’m like, I shouldn’t be breathing this hard. So I’ve been doing a lot of exercise. But of course, a consequence of that is your skin is rubbing against your other skin and in protest and either the exercise or the heat, I don’t know which yet. My body has said, hey, fuck you. So that’s fair. And I can’t even complain.

S13: And speaking of music for I look at it like that. Right. You like it was that was like as smooth as a tick tock. Good job.

S15: Our segment today is all about the lure of musicians, why we love the idea of, you know, tempting a musician from the road or something like the reason why, you know, men always feel like, oh, this is totally going to work when they pull out a guitar and in the middle of a party, annoyingly, sometimes they are right.


S13: Sometimes they are absolutely right. Yes. But more often than not, they are. There’s a time and place for everything. Brad OK, why is Brad making me laugh so hard? I know. Why don’t that answer that? I know. I know.

S14: But music is one of those things that we’ve mentioned before in various forms over the years of the podcast. It’s very much an aphrodisiac. We talk about it as basically, you know, the food of the soul. We talk about it in terms of it being a gateway. We remember it in the same way that we remember smells and like, you know, as a as a as a sort of what’s that word as a sort of a Proustian memory. Jogger music is top notch alongside, of course, you know, a bit of the Madelin from that book. So there’s like a bunch of feelings first and otherwise tied in with music. And by the time you add in the musician element of it, like who is making the music right, that further complicates feelings of first of loss, of desire. And at the same time, it complicates and it also simplifies. Yes.

S15: And there’s also the thrill of the idea that a musician is going to write a song about you write. Right. And he’s going to sing or play the song about you to other people. And everyone’s going to hear about your love or your relationship or whatever. And they’re going to they’re going to get a sense of the power between you, whatever the situation may be, there’s all that kind of like, oh, it’s very exciting. And, you know, sometimes when you have this secret thing between two people, not necessarily you think illicit, but just like the secret knowledge that that’s only there between two people and their friends, the musicians, and then kind of like give a little hint of it to the world. You know, it’s a little it’s a little buzz with that. And I think that’s part of it, too.


S14: Yeah, it’s the inside joke element of it. Like, you know, we talk a lot about the idea of only the two of us know this thing and then you get like a tiny glimpse in and it feels like, oh, titillating, you know. So let’s talk let’s talk a little bit about this. Not Nicole. You in particular have a very well documented love for musicians with a slight stature and strong voices. Am I wrong, though? You are not wrong.

S13: Now you go your face. You look like a child caught in a lie. You’re like, yep, I did that shit. I did it because I feel embarrassed about it. You know why?

S15: I feel like it’s such a basic cliche. The thing to fall for musicians, right, but I love a guitar player.

S14: I really think star player and a pianist, you are the long term co-host of Thursday Kids and you are one of the proponents of the fouth wants what the Foo wants and sometimes what the food actually craves is a guitar and or a piano and let the basic rule man let it go. It’s basic and it’s but it’s basic for a reason. It’s like a foundational element. Yeah, exactly. It’s a man competently doing a job and it’s like, come on. It’s the perfect intersection of so many of your interests.

S15: Yes. And just on a flat level, the dexterity of being able to use your hands, clap your hands, do two different things at you at the same time.

S13: I love. Right now you’re doing 80 fingers as you describe this. It’s incredibly, wonderfully mesmerizing to watch your hands flutter and flutter, as you said, that dexterity, dexterity, you spell your name with your fingertips, is there?


S15: Yes, I love it. I love it. I love guitar players. I love piano players. If he plays a brass instrument, I love that. And that’s strictly for like, you know, Nottie reasons don’t sleep on people who play saxophone, trumpet or the flute. I mean, I see my brass, but flute. Yes.

S14: OK, so the occasional woodwind. Yes. You throw that motherfucker into.

S15: All right, don’t sleep on them, particularly if you know you have a.

S13: Oh, I can’t. Even if I’m not going to say, OK, you know what I’m going to say, OK, let’s just know that those people have particular math exercises that are beneficial away.

S15: Go away from the concert stage.

S14: OK, I was going to say, wow, I saw I saw a by a recently where somebody was saying they were a sax player and they said all my exercises are useful for other things. And I swiped left so hard I was like Phakisa.

S13: No, used to the swipe right. No, I was like, let’s not let’s not be all. Let’s just say what you mean bro. Don’t, don’t, don’t. Come on. But I hated the little nudge nudge wink wink. I was like, sir, I bet you’re not even that good. Good day. So I just I just left. Absolutely. Swipe right just like that. And that is a fundamental difference between Nicole and me.

S14: I, I have to say I am not nearly as drawn to musicians as you are, but when I am I feel like an ad. I don’t always drink Carlsberg, but when I do but when I do kind of have a strong reaction to a musician, it’s because they are playing my favorite instrument, the instrument that I played when I was a kid. The drums. Oh yeah. Drummers, yes. Now, if you are a drummer, all I’m going to say is there is no drama of any race of any genre that doesn’t fully understand the difference between the one and the three and the two on the four. And if you can get a basic understanding, like if you’re especially if you’re some kind of like West African music polyrhythm kind of person called me in it just cool. There is something about a drummer in terms of what they can do with the instrument, but also on a purely aesthetic level, nobody has nicer forearms than a drummer, right? Yeah, I just developed ass muscles, like just it. That’s the reason why people have long sleeves that they can roll up because there’s never been a drummer that has rolled up his sleeves that I’ve not just side and just thought, jeez, will you carry our child in those strong arms just as a basic response. I’m just like, oh my God. Yes. So that’s that’s my that’s my way in. There’s something about someone being able to play, because here’s the thing to me. Drums. This is how I was taught drums. It is one instrument that is made up of many instruments and each drum provides a different sound, a different feel, a different feeling. And so to me, there is a sort of like all encompassing mastery to be a good drummer that I’m always going to be drawn to. You’re playing multiple instruments and you’re playing them well and you’re marrying sounds together. And again, we’ve spoken about competence. That’s very real. But also there is something about complexity, dexterity, as you pointed out, every time a drummer twirls the drumstick. Yes, bitch.


S15: They’ve got the what is it, the kick drum, the kick drum, they’re moving their hands, they’re going to the cymbal like they’re just like all of this. And you have to be aware of not only your instrument, but everything that’s going on. And the bands are, you know, ensemble around you. You still have to be very present and pay attention to so many things.

S14: And yes, drummer, is that not the metaphor for like everything in life, like you’re doing multiple things, but you’re paying attention. I mean, it’s the husband. It’s the husband. I so that’s that’s my way in is the drummer playing the drums and it always pulls me in and I again talking about basic I feel it’s like I’m like, oh man, that is such a basic. Like thing to be lusting after, but valid and also valid.

S15: Yes. OK, so, you know, I talked about in my first ABC News that Prince was a very early influence on me and for thinking about musicians and what’s so appealing about them. I remember this book that I read when I was a little girl that I think really, you know, kind of launched that ship for me as well. OK, OK.

S13: And it’s come on, Helen of Troy, she said launch the ship. OK, OK.

S15: Now, I did not read very much of like Babysitters Club, Sweet Valley High, things like that. It was just it just didn’t appeal to me. And I, I don’t have a reason, like, there’s nothing bad about whatever. But I did read some of the Sweet Valley High books and there were all kinds of offshoots for Sweet Valley High. Right. Right. And so I have this book and I have never forgotten it. In fact, I ended up buying as an adult two copies of this, but it is called a Sweet Valley High is the super edition. Malibu Summer OK. Oh, OK. And they came out in nineteen eighty six show and the twins, Elizabeth and Jessica go to Malibu to visit a friend and they end up being, you know, the book called A Mother’s Helpers, but basically like au pairs or something that. Right. And Jessica wanted to go because she heard that the people that they would be working for were related to this really popular musician named Tony Sargent. Right. OK, valid reason, Jessica, I hear. Right. But then Jessica, you know, she gets placed with the family members and then they’re like, oh, no, Tony, is that going to come around here? He’s way too busy. And so just goes like, OK, well, peace out. I’m just going to trick my sister. Right, because Jessica was the the trickster, you know, whatever. She’s always had a scam going.


S14: She was very she was she was a lokey of the Wakefield twins.

S15: Yes. So she was like, I’m going to trick Liz into taking my spots and, you know, I’m not going to get with this guy anyway. So Liz is up there and she ends up meeting this guy named Jamie Galbraith. Right. Who’s a handsome guy. He’s like twenty one years old. And I think at the time they were like sixteen or something like that. Yeah. She meets Jamie, he’s got dark hair, whatever, his first night there, he plays her some Nina Simone and they dance.

S13: I’ll look at that. Right. OK, a little bit of racial diversity. Sweet Valley that we never got in the books.

S15: All right. And long story short, it turns out that Jamie Galbraith is actually Tony Sargent and he has died. So, yes, he dyed his hair in order to get some privacy, in order to like, you know, just enjoy being a teenager without the drama of fame and all this kind of stuff.

S14: I mean, I get it. I also have died my head as a result of, you know, the attention from Thursday.

S15: As you are well aware, Nicole, so lives Elizabeth and Tony. Jamie ends up having the summer fleeing, but obviously they can’t sustain it. And Elizabeth is like, no, you’re too famous, blah, blah, blah. And at the end of summer, there is a concert that Tony puts on and, you know, he comes out and he is fully Tony. And Elizabeth is just like, is he going to be the same guy that I fell in love with? And she says, boy, if she’s like, oh, no, it’s really him. I love him. And he sings the song in front of everybody in front of God and Country Summer Girl. And he dedicated to his girl live. And it’s all about like I you know, you’ll always be my summer girl. There’s no one else that I’ll ever love as much and all this kind of stuff. And that’s how the book ends with just them having this moment. Love in front of the world. Love it. And I have been searching for that ever.


S13: And I think, wow, no pressure, everyone. Amazing. Amazing.

S15: So that has been, I think, the undercurrent of my attraction to musicians. Also, just as an artist myself and knowing how I put people into my writing, you know, friends and families and yes, people love my lovers. So I think that that has always appealed to me. I once mess with this guy who was he was a rapper. It was when I was in college. Don’t worry about it.

S14: And so can I just say I was not worried, but I appreciate you preempting me.

S15: And, you know, he would write stuff about me and I didn’t like it. Like, it was very much a nice little ego stroke. And so I I totally understand why people want that man. You want to see themselves come alive and someone saw and I you know, when I’m thinking about Hozier and the things that he’s writing, I’m just like, I want you to write a love song about me and how I am like, you know, the witch at the end of the world for you or something. I don’t know. I don’t know. But I listen to come see me.

S14: Nicole, if you don’t put it into the world, it might not happen like at this point in time. You know, like I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again, I’m not sure how much I believe in the idea of manifesting something. I don’t know. But post Jake Johnson, especially who for whom we have built a whole manifestation shrine, it feels like in our hearts. And then he was on our show and he was fantastic. And can I just say the response to that was amazing. And even Leupp daddy from this week’s episode where we are kind of talking to Mark and, you know, having watched him from afar, I have to say a part of me desperately wants him to use a phrase from our interview in one of his freestyles when he’s screaming one day and I can be like, oh, my God, he’s totally referring to us. And nobody else needs to know. That’s the important part about this. Like it, doesn’t it? The inside of a of a song, of a story of whatever. It doesn’t need to be public knowledge. I don’t you know, when people have, like, divorce albums or like and I’m like I that that’s a drama that I’m not necessarily looking to engage with or in. However, if there is some unnamed character, if there is a constant reference to my guy, my lady, my whomever, I’m like, oh, that could be me. Yes, that’s what I want. I don’t want any I don’t even need anyone else to know about it. You know, it’s there’s a similar thing for me when I think about authors, which I know is a massive tangent, I’m not going to dwell on it. But there’s a feeling of recognizing something in a writer’s work and kind of being like, oh, my God, that’s alluding to X time, Y time or whatever. Music has the same thing. It doesn’t need to be an outside story that is known to everybody. It just has to be something that establishes a connection. And that for me is the fundamental love of a musician. It’s just this idea that you are saying something and you are putting it down and I am picking it up and down the world because it’s just about the two of us. That’s the core of the romance.


S15: Yes. And I think that’s another aspect in the lure of musicians is that they could be on stage performing in front of hundreds of thousands of people, whatever. But they have this way of making you feel like it’s just you there. And they are they can command the room, you know, especially if they’re doing very well. Right. Like if they are playing well, it just seems so like everyone becomes focused on them. And it does feel, you know, for for those of us who are so inclined, it does feel like it’s kind of like a spell that they’re casting over us, you know, that we are able to just fall silent and just feel the music coming from their fingers, the feel, you know, when we make fun of particularly guitars, when they make their orgasm faces, when when it gets really good to them, shout out to John Mayer. But it’s just like you understand that they are losing part of themselves and they’re giving it to the audience. I was able to see Prince perform live a few times, maybe like three or four times. And the thing about Prince Prince, he played like twenty seven instruments, but the guitar was always his favorite and he was very much a rock guitarist. But because he wanted to be a pop person, he wanted to have the fame of being a pop musician. He would tune down his abilities because pop isn’t really the place you go to for guitar solos or whatever. So on stage, he would perform some guitar solos and he would you would see him lose himself in the in the solo and see when he would come back to the show. Like you could see that he was no longer aware that we were in the audience and he would come back and you would kind of see him kind of like blink and move his head in such a way. He was like, oh, yes, I forgot pop stuff, you know, and then kind of like cool down the heat of that solo. I love that. I love seeing people get lost in their craft. It’s just so I don’t know. It’s mesmerizing. It’s also very aspirational. Like, I want to be able to, like, lose myself in my craft. There definitely been times I’ve written something and I will leave it alone, walk away from it for a while and I come back to it. I’m like, oh, did I write that? Because, you know, that kind of thing. So I see that. And I think that’s just all. A part of what makes musicians so hot to me is, like you said, the competency king also just the. That they’re taking and what they do, you know, you can always tell when someone is not feeling their job anymore and when you see someone who is enjoying their craft, it’s just beautiful. It makes the experience all the more better.

S14: There it is.

S3: Nicole nailed essentially the very core of any reason to be attracted to to understand the thirst for musicians at the height of their powers, pulling you in, throwing themselves out, all that good stuff.

S11: Thank you, Michael. Thank you.