The Gist

The Cost of Convicting Trump Feat. Guest Joe Lockhart

How to navigate Trump’s upcoming impeachment trial.

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Episode Notes

On the Gist, Trump is deserving of a trial, and a lot more.

In the interview, what are the consequences of putting Trump through a Senate trial? Mike does some game theory with Joe Lockhart about the possible implications for Republicans and Democrats when it comes to voting for, and possibly convicting the former president. Lockhart is former press secretary for President Clinton, partner at strategic comms group Rational360, and a CNN political analyst.

In the spiel, mask on, mask off. But seriously keep your mask on.

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Podcast production by Margaret Kelley and Cheyna Roth.


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  • Mike Pesca is the host of the Slate daily podcast The Gist. He also contributes reports and commentary to NPR.