The Gist

Illusions, Delusions, and Flat Out Lies

An interview with Frank Oz and Derek DelGaudio about their Hulu special.

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Episode Notes

On the Gist, you can’t trouble us with your labels.

In the interview, what is In & Of Itself? The new Hulu special by Frank Oz and Derek DelGaudio is so much more than just a made-for-TV version of DelGaudio’s live show. As creators, Oz and DelGaudio discuss the stigma of illusion, an art form which relies on sleight of hand and audience participation, and talk about how they were able to bring to life their special for people sitting at home. Both Oz and DelGaudio elucidate the assumptions around their respective careers, professions which have historically been viewed as sitting lower on the performing arts totem pole, and urge viewers to refrain from taking things simply on face value. In & Of Itself is available now on Hulu.

In the spiel, understanding the difference between lies and delusions.

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Podcast production by Margaret Kelley and Cheyna Roth.


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  • Mike Pesca is the host of the Slate daily podcast The Gist. He also contributes reports and commentary to NPR.