The Gist

Crossing Out Columbus

Should we strike the names of historical figures with bad pasts off our cities?

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Episode Notes

On the Gist, dominating the streets with compassion.

In the interview, John Pfaff, professor of law and criminology at Fordham University and author of Locked In: The True Causes of Mass Incarceration-and How to Achieve Real Reform, joins Mike to talk about police reformation, and why politicians touting low crime under their watches could lead to more dysfunction. As one of the foremost experts on incarceration in America, Pfaff argues that we need to rethink how the system and budgets are organized.

In the spiel, Christopher Columbus and his mixed legacy.

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Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.


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  • Mike Pesca is the host of the Slate daily podcast The Gist. He also contributes reports and commentary to NPR.