The Gist

The Defund Debate Cycle

Defunding looks a lot like reforming.

Illustration depicting a female with a microphone

Listen longer

Slate Plus members get ad-free versions of all Slate podcasts, plus extra segments, bonus episodes, and more. Try it free today.

Join Slate Plus

Episode Notes

On the Gist, does Barr know what chemicals are?

In the interview, New York Times opinion columnist and CBS News political analyst Jamelle Bouie joins Mike to talk race and policing in America. His latest column is, “The Police Are Rioting. We Need to Talk About It.

In the spiel, defining police reformation.

Email us at

Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.


About the Show

A daily evening show about news, culture, and whatever else you’ll be discussing with friends and family tonight.

All episodes


  • Mike Pesca is the host of the Slate daily podcast The Gist. He also contributes reports and commentary to NPR.