The Gist

The Curdling Affair in Syria

Former Defense Secretary Ash Carter explains why it’s so messy.


Episode Notes

On The Gist, what does quid pro quo even mean?

In the interview, Mike talks to Ash Carter about his time as the 25th secretary of defense, what he would have done if he were Jim Mattis, and what he thinks about Trump’s military strategy in Syria.

In the Spiel, Trump and Erdogan are back at it again.

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Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Christina Djossa.


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  • Mike Pesca hosted Slate’s daily podcast The Gist from 2014 - 2021.