Politics

The One Question Trump Surrogate Kari Lake Refused to Answer After the Debate

Everyone wants to be seen as willing to strictly limit abortion. What happens when they get to the general?

Kari Lake in the debate hall, talking.
Kari Lake. Mario Tama/Getty Images

SIMI VALLEY, California—Wednesday night’s Republican debate didn’t offer a breakthrough for any of the candidates chasing far behind GOP front-runner Donald Trump, who was not even there. However, there was one moment that showed how any of them might gain a foothold.

The moment came toward the end of the debate when Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis repeated his line that Trump was “missing in action,” but with a twist. DeSantis said:

I reject this idea that pro-lifers are to blame for midterm defeats. I think there’s other reasons for that. The former president, you know, he is missing in action tonight. He’s had a lot to say about that. He should be here explaining his comments to try to say that pro-life protections are somehow a “terrible thing.”

This was a reference to Trump’s recent comments that DeSantis’ six-week abortion ban in Florida was “a terrible thing and a terrible mistake.” The DeSantis campaign has tried to seize on the comments to attract evangelical voters away from the former president and paint the Trump campaign as insufficiently committed to banning abortion.

“Evangelical voters in Iowa” are “obviously upset about that,” DeSantis communication director Andrew Romeo told me in the spin room after the debate. “As are everybody across the country who voted for governors and state legislatures that passed similar legislation in their states.”

It remains to be seen how much of a problem this really is for Trump—as Adam Serwer and others have smartly argued, evangelicals have an almost worshipful relationship to Trump and an innate understanding that he is most responsible for the end of Roe v. Wade.

At the same time, this was the issue that Trump surrogates at Wednesday’s debate most struggled to address coherently. Here’s what happened when I tried to ask Trump backer and defeated Arizona gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake about Trump’s current position on abortion:

Jeremy Stahl: Do you agree with President Trump’s comments that it’s a “terrible thing,” Gov. DeSantis’ six-week abortion ban in Florida?


Kari Lake: I think President Trump has a right to speak on abortion more than anybody, because he did more than anybody to save lives.


Do you personally agree with what he said about that policy, though?


What about it.


That it was a “terrible thing”?


I think every state has the right to decide where their abortion law is going to be. Florida chose six weeks. Arizona has 15 weeks. Other states may do 22 weeks, I don’t know where it’s all going to flush out, but the reason that we wanted Roe v. Wade brought down was unconstitution[al]. The right lies at the state. But what we do need to do better, and I agree with President Trump on this: We’ve got to start listening to why women are walking into these abortion clinics.

 

We’re not helping people. People are struggling. I talked to or listened to an interview with a woman who found herself in an abortion clinic because she said ‘I can’t afford to have a baby.’ Can you imagine that. Our economy, everything is so bad that a woman was going to take the life of her baby because she couldn’t afford that baby. We’ve got to do a better job. The left says they’re pro-choice; they’re anti-choice, because when you walk into a clinic, you’re not given any choices as a woman who walks in. They’re scared to death and nobody says ‘Why are you doing this, how can we help you?’ And I think Republicans need to do more to help women and I think we will. President Trump was talking about baby bonuses, we want to help women become mothers.


Personally, though, which policy do you prefer, the 6-week abortion ban that governor Ron DeSantis has, or the 15-week one in Arizona?


I don’t have a say in that. Florida is Florida.


What about Arizona?


I see what you’re trying to do, you’re trying to make this whole thing about abortion. President Trump has said—and you smile, you smile. Because you’re probably a leftist. Yeah, I think that you are.


OK.


We the Republicans …


Gov. DeSantis brought this up on the stage, he specifically mentioned it. So …


The Republicans are for helping women. The left is not for that. They are for extreme measures all the way up until birth, OK. You do realize that, right?


Your personal policy, you don’t want to say whether it’s Gov. DeSantis’ or President Trump’s?


I’m pro-life, but I’m also about helping women, and I realize that in many states, there are abortion laws that are 15 weeks or 22 weeks or whatever it is. The American people do not want abortion up until nine months pregnant.


If you were governor of Arizona right now, would it be a six-week ban or something different?


There’s already a law in Arizona that’s on the books that’s a 15-week ban. Do your homework the next time you ask a question because you don’t look very smart. You look dumb.

How strictly to limit abortion now that Roe is gone is an uncomfortable spot for Trump. Unfortunately for the other candidates, this also happens to be the GOP’s biggest liability when it comes to the general election.

Lake, it’s worth noting, on the campaign trail last year during her failed bid for Arizona’s governorship had a similarly difficult time making her mind up on how far she wanted her state to go in banning abortion. Prior to the Supreme Court’s decision striking down Roe v. Wade, Lake said she supported a six-week ban that would be a “carbon copy” of the S.B. 8 ban in Texas. The day that Dobbs was handed down, Lake said she wanted Arizona’s courts to revive a 120-year-old law that would completely ban abortion in the state “unless it is necessary to save [the pregnant person’s] life.” Then in the heat of the campaign, Lake appeared to tone down her stance, saying that abortion should be “rare and legal,” before attempting to walk back those comments as a mistake.

His lack of interest in being nailed down on what level of abortion ban he backs is likely another reason why Trump is staying off the GOP debate stage.